Morning,
I currently live in NSW and my energy supplier wishes to change my electric meter from my old one to a new smart meter.
Has anybody changed over and their bill has gone through the roof? I have heard some bad reviews about the new smart meters.
Will Bills Go through The Roof?
Ours come through Australia Post…
you mean through the mailbox
through Australia Post and into the mailbox.
Bills come inside an envelope. Please …
What will Bill's wife think?
That's Miss. Gates to you.
Go and physically read your meter today. Compare that to your previous bills reading. Check if the bills been doing actual / estimate readings.
There was a group claiming all sorts of bad health effects when they rolled them out in Victoria 10 years ago. Don't hear anything about it now. I think they moved onto lobbying against the sky rail construction.
Or COVID vaccine…
Zero deaths caused by sky rail so it it looks like their hard work paid off.
It's possible your electricity cost will go up but you can counteract this by:
1) Change some of your electricity use from peak to shoulder or off-peak times. eg: Run the dishwasher and washing machine during off-peak times. In Sydney that is 10pm-7.00am.
2) Shopping around for a better deal.
I wanted to get a smart meter as I didn't trust or like the 100 yr old one. They wanted me to pay! In the end we had a catastrophic event (transmitter in street blew up causing electrical damage in many homes) and they replaced it, as they should've. Anyways, I am now with First Energy here in Tasmania, and am very happy also happy I can see my electricity usage on day and time basis! I did choose a solar plan with off peak rates etc.
My partner has aurora energy and a smart meter and she likes the app and billing hasn't changed much .
No point sticking to the past, move forward.
I've looked at 1st energy, but what I can't understand is why you can't view the TAS plan prices on the website. Trying to just takes you to the energy made easy gov site (which doesn't seem to have the full prices including discounts), but if you look at plans for VIC, you can actually see all prices and documents.
How can you trust a company that can't even put it's prices or plan documents/contracts for our state on its website?
Exactly, also the world is flat, and we didn't land on the moon…
;)
of course the earth is flat and it rests on 4 elephants who are on the back of a giant turtle traveling through space
At least use a reputable, unbiased source if you're going to try and spread this sort of misinformation.
A smart meter sends out blasts of up to 60,000 micro-watts per square meter of Radio Frequency (RF) Radiation (which is 60 times the U.S. safety limit)
Using large numbers with small unit-prefixes just to make it sound worse? "60,000 micro-watts" = 60mW. And transmitter power doesn't exactly translate to a square-meter rate.
every 30 to 45 seconds
Usage is not reported that frequently. Usage is aggregated and recorded in blocks of time - a quick web search seems to imply 30-minute blocks. These 30-minute blocks may not be transmitted every 30-minutes but - they could send multiple blocks at a longer interval (i.e. 4 x 30-minute blocks transmitted every 2 hours)
They also manipulate the AC current causing highly toxic “electric smog” (a.k.a. Dirty Electricity) on each electrical circuit the smart meter connects to.
Why?
Smart Meters are dangerous because they expose the occupants of the home or office to highly toxic amounts of RF Radiation
No more than your iPhone or WiFi.
And there are literally hundreds of independent peer reviewed scientific studies linking these “non-ionizing” forms of radiation to things like sleep disorders, tinnitus, cancer, exasperated diabetes, crib death, DNA damage (especially in infants and fetuses) and male infertility.
If there's hundreds - can you like me some? Because the International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection, the body literally responsible for those "U.S. safety limits", specifically say in their report "Induction of cancer from long-term EMF exposure was not considered to be established".
Go and do some reading yourself. I made quite a long comment talking about it, and some other sources are located below.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_meter
https://www.aer.gov.au/consumers/my-energy-service/smart-met…
https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/energy-and-environment/meters/s…
https://www.arpansa.gov.au/understanding-radiation/radiation…
peer reviewed
Yes, reviewed by their peers, AKA other like-minded idiots.
60,000 microwatts you say?? what about the 1,300,000,000 microwatts (my god, this is why smart people use decibels instead) of ionising "RF Radiation" emitted by the sun?
Why not look up smart meter health in any journal articles?
Compare that to the cheap clock radio next to your head for 8 hours a night… I bet it emits more emr than the transmitter in the meter.
The only dirty power I worry about is all the trace elements of radioactive stuff in coal. True story - a coal power station emits more destructive radiation than a nuke ever will.
A smart meter sends out blasts of up to 60,000 micro-watts per square meter of Radio Frequency (RF) Radiation
No it doesn't. RF energy decreases with distance so that claim is complete garbage.
Let's look at WiFi.
WiFi output from your router is limited to 100mW of power which travels in every direction, a rough approximation means that about 0.25mW of power is absorbed into your skin/clothes at 5m from the router.
If you were to lay down in the sun you would be getting about 800w of much higher energy radiation (light and IR) - 3.2 million times more than from WiFi.
The human body emits around 100 watts of heat (infrared radiation) so having someone 5 m away form you in a room will cause you to be subject to 1,000 times more radiation than WiFi.
Smart Meters are dangerous because they expose the occupants of the home or office to highly toxic amounts of RF Radiation
Though you might not even have WiFi…
Or do you not know that wifi is RF Radiation?
Do you have a mobile phone?
Or do you not know that wifi is RF Radiation?
Do you have any electrical appliance?
Because they all emit some form of RF Radiation
Wait until they discover the sun lmao
Probably all in against dihydrogen monoxide too. I mean it is suspicious. Anyone that’s ever drunk that stuff has eventually died
Self-reporting of symptom development from exposure to radiofrequency fields of wireless smart meters in victoria, australia: a case series
"Self-reporting of symptom development"… so people called up and said the were suffering from xyz. No medical practitioners or actual diagnosis involved.
92 residents
Very small sample size.
which effectively removed a whole population's ability to avoid exposure to human-made high-frequency nonionizing radiation.
Sounds very unbiased (/s)
The author of the study also looks very unbiased (/s again, just in case)…
This "study" looks like 92 people who believe radio waves are "making them ill" called up their "doctor" who then wrote a study.
Pregnancy is also a reported symptom.
The first link in the body of that page is to ARPANSA’s Electromagnetic Radiation Health Complaints Register.
If you go to ARPANSA's site and view some of the documents, you find some more interesting facts:
EMR sources
The sources of EMR reported during July 2019-June 2020, noting that some reports included more than one EMR source, were:
EMR source Cumulative July 2019 - June 2020 Mobile phone base stations 44 4 5G 3 3 Household electric and magnetic fields 29 2 Smart meter 70 1 Mobile phones 45 1 Wi-Fi 33 1 Solar inverters 5 1
So since 2003, there have been a total of 229 (self-)reports of ill-effects attributed to EMR - only 70 of which were "due" to "smart meters". They should contact the other 22 people from that other study
It's all non-ionizing radiation anyway. Sunlight is literally far more harmful
https://www.regulation.org.uk/images/electromagnetic_spectru…
Yes, my bill went through the roof multiple times where I was charged about 4x my normal bill each time.
The issue was that sometimes there is a technical glitch and the electricity company cannot read the meter remotely, so they charge an estimate or average of the suburb (not of MY past readings).
I live alone and am out about 16 hours every day so my bill is normally quite low. It’s then a huge hit to get such a bill.
Each time the electricity company refuses to refund me and instead gives a credit. They say they can only refund me if I was a pensioner or can prove financial hardship.
Pretty crap. Happens approx once every 2 years. I pay quarterly so the bill when this happens is a huge hit.
Obviously overall I am not paying any extra, but to receive a bill that is the equivalent of approx 1 year’s electricity use is a big shock and sometimes out of my budget at the time.
This used to happen to me all the time with my gas bill with Energy Australia.
You'd think after the 10th bill in a row with an estimated usage was 3-4 times the actual usage that they would update their algorithm.
I'm no expert but you'd think estimating someone's bill wouldn't be legal when they can easily get someone to check/fix the meter.
Wouldn't that have happened more often when you didn't have a smart meter? It would have been every time instead of every 2 year.
Edit: Probably also switch retailers, there's no reason for them to not refund.
the electricity company refuses to refund me
Lodge a complaint with the Ombudsman in your state (NSW) and watch the electricity company change their tune.
https://www.ewon.com.au/page/making-a-complaint/complaint-fo…
the reason most things are shit these days including utilities is the fact that most Ombudsman are political appointees and make decisions solely in the interest of the politicians and business.
Coalition sleaze in this regard has never been greater but Labor are just the same- better odds in a casino
I've used the ombudsman once to great effect. And mentioned that I was going to contact the ombudsman once, also with great effect.
So in my experience they seem pretty good
[X] small sample size
in the last 5 years? 10 years? new ones are nothing like the old ones…..
@petry: Once with Spintel about 4 years ago and once with Synergy about 6 months ago.
Only small $ issues though, so that may play a part
These are the variables:
* changes to your power use
* current plan rates v different plan rates
* any adjustment at changeover (as a result of a projected read from the previous charging period)
* accuracy of old meter
So if you keep your power use the same, don't change plans, have an "actual read" on latest bill and the old meter was working properly there will be no difference.
Suggest you take a picture of the old meter reading as this is the most likely source of a "discrepancy".
Instead of asking a bunch of randoms who know nothing about your electricity usage and plan details, why don't you calculate it yourself?
Read your meter reads at the start and end of the peak usage times. Work out how much you use during that time. Get a tarriff quote from the electricity company and calculate how much you'd be paying with a peak/off peak plan
Compare this to how much you're currently paying on your current flat fee plan.
My experience with SPAusnet back in the heydays was that one, once with Smart Meter you are allowed to be on flat pricing but as soon as you have Solar, they move you to ToU and my bill did increase because of the ToU arrangement.
Bill was about $1000 or less per annum up to $1300 on kwh year by year equivalent basis (that is, you divided the total cost per annum by usage in the year before solar and then times by usage in the year with solar).
Switching brought it back to $1100 circa but boy I felt dirty.
How do you get a smart meter? Is it free?
Smart meters can bill to the watt.
They have introduced shoulder's in the pricing structure rather then peak and of peak.
Although my bills plummeted, I had the dumb version of the smart meter before the new one went in.
I've seen people weld shut their boxes and have a cut out with glass for the meter to be read.
Extremely illegal, on safety grounds. What if there's a short in the box?
Yep. No way to get in. I wonder what insurers would say about that.
So they are attempting to steal and hold hostage something which they do not own?
Spot on. All this was in Melbourne when they first introduced them.
Yeah mate, your bill will go through the roof, dont touch those technology piece of shit thing, analog is the way. Its just another way for the government to monitor you
Smart meters in Vic have the ability to detect unsafe voltage and potential for electric shocks (voltage on neutral) so electricity distributors are proactively rectifying faults that have otherwise gone undetected in the past. Smart meters also send a ‘last gasp’ signal when power is lost, so unplanned outages can be attended to without having to be reported. Another benefit is reduced costs when moving in/out of a property or requesting a meter read; these cost upwards of $60 on the old basic meters or ~$11 with a smart meter when done remotely.
To answer your question, the long answer is… NO.
It's a "smart" meter. It's smart enough to charge you around what you have been paying for ages. Then bamm it's (profanity) you into bankruptcy.
Smart meters tend to catch on fire rather frequently, so you'll probably want to make sure your meter box is thoroughly lined with asbestos.
make sure you check that they don't install the second one right next to the original as that's an easy way to rack up 2x bills and 2x costs
All new meters, replacement meters are going to be smart meters only - this has been in effect since 2016.
Older meters had an average lifespan of 10 years, by 2026 almost everyone will have a smart meter.
Source - I had worked for a Electricity Meter management company in 2017
I have a smart meter installed and since then my bill is almost double compared to same period last year. Then I decided to buy a smart plug with energy monitor. I took 24 hours reading from most of my electrical devices and in total they're not far off the actual meter reading.
since then my bill is almost double compared to same period last year.
So your old meter was faulty and you were underpaying?
probably
my understanding is that some years ago well-meaning authorities decided to make it mandatory to install smartmeters in Victoria
resulting in stay-at-home pensioners suddenly getting $2000 electricity bills they'd never received before
how so ? turns out the touted 'potential savings' relied on moving most of your electricity consumption, such as HWS, to off-peak hours
except that didn't work with stay-at-home old retired or disabled folks who now paid much higher rates for daytime peak use
dunno but let's say it was previously 28c/kWh for the old single-rate meters,
and the advertised smartmeter rates were 10c/kWh off peak (and buried in the small print might be peak rates of 95c/kWh)
the marketing trick was to get people to imagine saving money with the lower offpeak rates
the reality was people paying multiple times their previous rates for peak rates
when disabled pensioners started calling up radio shock jocks complaining about suddenly getting $2000 electricity bills, the resultant outrage caused the Vic authorities to stop the mandatory rollout or risk being voted out next election
so in NSW the authorities, heeding that lesson, have been much more cautious about 'suggesting' smartmeters.
Yep, this is why its not around Australia wide.
They're profiting off each part instead of re balancing the costs
The last time I saw a Vic bill (im NSW), it showed peak was double what was standard, shoulder was 10% more, and off peak on 30% lower.
Data wise, since most people use peak, it should only need to increase slightly, say 10% and off peak drop by something like 50-80%.
With this kind of savings, people who can will shift more to shoulder and off peak.
Thereby dropping peak costs substantially. Thereby reducing peak costs as well. a Circle effect.
Its the top end of peak usage is extremely costly.
Like during heatwaves costs for that 1-2hours increase 10,000%
Or conversely your charges could go down depending on when you use your electricity.
I had a similar concern when we moved from one place (which had a smart meter) to a single rate meter.
After comparing the bills from a year period there was very little in it, a few dollars. This was a surprise it was so close.
But I would add that we were very careful to run anything during peak times. Things like washing machines, dishwashers were all run in off-peek. We tried really hard to get the majority of our power usage in off-peak. Only a little was used during peak times (think fridges, cooking, etc)
Being on a single rate meter now, we can use anything whenever we want. If we used this same approach on a smart meter I would almost be certian that we would be paying considerably more.
Under smart meter, if some people are paying significantly more, it would be reasonable to assume some are paying didly squat…
When in reality, as Victoria has shown most people pay a lot more, and few people saved minimal amounts
Just a bit lost here. Why do you think your bills would go up with a new meter?
You’re paying for the amount of electricity you use and how does metering device affect that? (unless
of-course either the old or new meter is faulty)
net meter prices are based on time of day use.
Technically if balanced correctly, for everyone paying $100 more, someone should be saving $100 more
But in reality, as Victoria has shown, people were paying $200 more, but savers were saving $5
Under the balanced rule, with more people moving to off peak because they save.
After a couple of years it should be something like some pay $50 more, others save $100. The logic behind this is peak usage where most cost comes from is reduced. Even though off peak increases, the cost is significantly lower.
(yes numbers are made up, just giving an example)
That's why the roll out in Sydney was stopped years ago.
Though it look like they snuck in laws for new meters to be compulsory for new and replacement meters.
I saw a NSW contract a couple of years ago for smart meter, still bad, but not as bad as Victoria
That clears things up, so there are billing changes on how it works with smart meters.
Except in Vic you can still get single tariff rates, and with the laws in Vic regarding default rates it's much easier for non-savvy people to be on a decent plan, smart meter or not.
Let them change your meter. It's costing more to have someone check it every 3 months.
Meters are there to measure your electricity usage, not fudge figures.
Here for the comments.
Can see that OP getting triggered with the lack of confirmation bias sought from everyone's comments.
OP's profile pic checks out.
In a world addicted to upgrades it's always interesting to find someone who asks "why".
If you managed to hold off so long, keep at it. Lucky guy.
I refused my smart meter install a few years ago. My energy bills have halves for some reason since… don't ask me why? Last bill for 3 months was only 70 bucks, needless to say I'm not ringing up to question it.
I think the OP would benefit from not just a smart meter but also some smarts.
We changed to smart meter when we installed solar. Our bills have been lower since then.
I was offered this as well… I initially agreed, but after a number of delays, I just rang them back and withdrew from the offer.
Your bills will go through the roof with a smart meter, also they can remotely disconnect your power any time they want with the smart meters.
No. Why would it? Whatever type of meter it is it still just measures how much you use and reports it.
This seems like a tinfoil hat situation.
i live in an 1980's apartment block in NSW and switched over to a smart meter.
Was previously on AGL and requested for a smart meter to be installed, they said no go as it was too old of a block (which I thought was BS). Bills per quarter were about $600 with AGL. Switched over to Amber Electric and got a smart meter installed, bills now are about 450 per quarter (due to better pricing and possible dodgey old meter). Having a smart meter is great for monitoring power usage, most power companies have apps for it. No reason not to get a smart meter, the old meters can get dodgey after several decades.
If you can get a provider with wholesale pricing, you can potentially save quite bit of money.
Can you link us your plan from the website?
I know our plans aren't as bad as Vic's but they were still pretty bad from what I saw a few years ago
So i had a look at Origin Energy (current offer of 10k =$50 electricity and 10k gas for sign ups)
https://www.originenergy.com.au/electricity-gas/plans.html
I'll ignore daily supply so to simplify things
Looking at the Origin Everyday Reward for both
Single Tariff 23.32c
Time of Use
Peak 1300-19.59 31.52c
Shoulder 0700-1259 and 2000-2159 25.04c
Off peak 2200-0659 15.47c
So looking at the above Peak is paying 35.16% more, and off peak you're saving 33.66%
Looking at the above, why are you paying so much more for shoulder? Why would shoulder be more than the single TOU?
The fact is because most people use peak, the cost should only go up by a bit. More people to share the costs
A more realistic modeling would be something along these lines
Peak 28
Shoulder 19
off Peak 15
The reason off peak and shoulder isn't a big change is because the volume of usage change wouldnt be significant enough.
Peak only needs to increase marginally because everyone is on peak.
Ignore shoulder. Which is slightly more than current single use
To save you need to change more than 50% to off peak 10pm to 7am from peak….
So yes TOU is a scam
Edit, just noticed Weekend its 15.47 flat.
So basically Peak and Shoulder are subsidising businesses
Another way of looking at the above is single use off peak users are supposedly subsidizing peak users.
Based on the TOU model of peak increasing more than off peak, means they based their prices on the idea that there are more off peak usage than peak usage….
yes its pretty fked up model
Lol imagine wasting your time and mental capacity over a few cents a day…
Look, if you're going to screech, at least screech the whole quote.
I'm not sure how you think this supports your argument for nuclear power. Nuclear plants take about 12 hours to start, therefore basically need to be running all the time - inherently producing excess power.