Missed out on Graduate Program

Lucy1 on 29/05/2021 - 19:31
Last edited 29/05/2021 - 19:46

I'm soon to graduate with a comp sci degree. I was previously offered a graduate role for 100k+ job at a massive fintech, where I did an internship. Unfortunately, due to administrative errors and a bungled process, they forgot to put my name down for the 2022 graduate program which they have since filled. They've apologised and offered to give me a place in the following years program (little good that does me now).

So now, I'm without a graduate program for next year. I've just started working fulltime as a junior software engineer at a startup for 42k a year, doing a lot of hours on minimum wage. Despite working 24/7, I still feel like my career is going nowhere. Not sure what else to do now, my contract runs out at the end of the year and I have nothing else lined up. What advice would you give to someone who missed out on a graduate program? Should I do a masters or just look to get more certificates? I'm finding it really difficult to secure a permanent job even after graduating with top grades and several internships. I'm feeling pretty defeated and am almost considering giving up and returning to my previous career (which I 100% don't want to do)

Education & Work

Comments

  • poboy on 29/05/2021 - 19:38
    +9

    Bummer. You need experience. Keep in touch with the other mob (although it will probably fall through) and work in the meantime.

    You can't change the past. You can only put your best foot forward. Good luck!

  • onetwothreefour on 29/05/2021 - 20:04

    Work at your current job and look around for something better. If nothing comes up try and get that grad job next year.

  • garetz on 29/05/2021 - 20:11
    +20

    if you believe the administrative error line of bs then you are probably gullible, if they really wanted you they wouldn't let an error like that put them off and they would find something else for you in their organisation, as they wouldn't want to lose you as a perspective employee.

    It might be a case of you are very good at testing and education, but bad at social interaction and application, maybe they didnt think you would fit in their business culture of doing things. I very much doubt they will keep you for the next year either, thats what they say to make you feel better and have hope for the future.

    Send out your resume to every big company you can, its a process of being interviewed, if you dont get the position find out why and improve on what you think might be letting you down in successful applications.

    • Lucy1 on 29/05/2021 - 20:21

      They've offered me other jobs, but they are for non-technical positions as all the graduate engineering roles have been filled. I'm not taking a non-technical job as I only want to be an engineer.

      • glassyan on 29/05/2021 - 20:51
        +1

        garetz is right, if they wanted you there's no such thing as "oh we filled all the roles", there are always ways around things like that in a large company that don't involve someone waiting for a year as no good candidate would wait that long.

        By all means keep in touch with them and see whether you can get someone to fight for you to put you into the 2022 grad program, but if I were you I would apply for jobs at other companies and network aggressively.

        • Lucy1 on 29/05/2021 - 20:53

          Yeah, they have offered me lots of other roles. They call me quite often to ask if I am interested in a role on offer.

          But I will only take an engineering one. I want to be a software engineer, nothing else. I'm interviewing around, so I can have something ready to go to when my current contract finishes in dec.

          • glassyan on 29/05/2021 - 20:59
            +11

            @Lucy1: Given the alternatives I would take up their offer and look to change teams later. There is a "huge" difference between working for a large Fintech and a no name startup at minimum wage, just get yourself in the door and work your way up.

            Yes, I know this isn't what you wanted, but you are hurting your profile more by sticking with a small startup vs working at a large Fintech, and it is much easier to switch teams once you are within the organisation.

            If you want to have a chat further feel free to PM me and we can take this offline.

            Edit: I saw your other replies, couldn't you just accept the 2023 grad position and ask them to put you into another role in the meantime? That would be a win-win as you can start earning more than just 42k a year and you are assured of a place into next year's grad position, just make sure the 2023 grad offer is in writing though.

            • Lucy1 on 30/05/2021 - 01:30

              @glassyan: Is there any benefit if the role is completely unrelated to what you want eventually want to do. For example, if I did a year as a marketing assistant at the fintech company before transferring into engineering, would that year count for anything? Or does the name of the company matter more than the role and the skills you develop? Also how do I keep up my engineering skills in the meantime if I am not working in the field?

              • glassyan on 30/05/2021 - 11:53
                +6

                @Lucy1: Yes, it is still work experience in a large Fintech company and it will help you develop a more rounded profile. Many large company rotate their graduates in different departments, so the grads can understand the entire business and not just on their specialised area.

                In terms of the skills, I wouldn't worry too much about it. One year isn't a long time and you will pick it up quickly once you are in the engineering team.

                What I would do though is to get the HR to get you a contract for both your next role AND the 2023 grad position, nothing counts unless they are in writing. Given you have been burnt once, I wouldn't think that's an unreasonable demand.

                Just make sure you bring a positive attitude once you are in the Fintech, you really don't want to complain to others about what happened before and make people feel you resent your position.

          • garetz on 29/05/2021 - 21:21
            +1

            @Lucy1: Have you ever considered that this may be a test ? To see how flexible you might be in the future, its obvious they want you, but you are so obstinate in what you want, that you dont realise what they are offering to you is exactly what you want, just not immediately available.

            Everyone wants everything now, consider that the world may not work that way. Take what they are offering you, and then goto the 2023 graduate program as they have insinuated they will offer.

            • Lucy1 on 30/05/2021 - 01:33
              +1

              @garetz: Can I ask the fintech to have a plan in place for me to transfer? I have a real fear of falling out of engineering and never being able to get back in.

              • Htu08 on 30/05/2021 - 09:24

                @Lucy1: yeah, I don't think that would be too unreasonable to ask the employer.

          • pharkurnell on 30/05/2021 - 11:50

            @Lucy1: Turning down offers with this place is dumb.

      • SBOB on 30/05/2021 - 06:51
        +3

        comp sci degree
        only want to be an engineer.

        Should have done an engineering degree then :)

        A comp sci degree you complete in a couple of years (your last past said you got the scholarship Feb 2019) is not an engineering degree

        • SBOB on 30/05/2021 - 09:12

          Ha .Neg'd, and I actually have a comp sci degree :)

          Computer science isn't an engineering degree.

  • netjock on 29/05/2021 - 20:13

    my contract runs out at the end of the year and I have nothing else lined up

    Did you burn your bridges with the 100k+?

    You should have taken the next year in take into grad program. If you got a better deal you can always knock it back.

    • Lucy1 on 29/05/2021 - 20:25

      yeah, recruiter said if I take it she will send me the contract so I can lock it in. Problem is, I don't know if I will still be looking for a job in 2023, it is so long into the future.

      Anyway I'll keep applying. I know it is an uphill battle getting the first job.

      • netjock on 29/05/2021 - 20:34
        +1

        You will have a job but whether one for $100k. You got to get a 30k pay rise every year from now to beat $100k. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush!

      • AndyC1 on 29/05/2021 - 21:08

        How is a recruiter in the picture?

        • Lucy1 on 30/05/2021 - 01:37

          recruiter/hr/whatever you want to call them

          • AndyC1 on 30/05/2021 - 10:45
            +1

            @Lucy1: And you expect $100K job….mmmm

            • Lucy1 on 30/05/2021 - 11:15

              @AndyC1: No I'm working a 42k job, 6 days a week. But that ends in december.

              Also with three degrees, I do think my time is worth a little more than minimum wage (which is practically poverty level in sydney)

              • AndyC1 on 30/05/2021 - 11:34
                +1

                @Lucy1: If you do no know the difference between a recruiter , hr and whatever then you need to figure it out ASAP. Now three degrees…..zzzzz

                • Lucy1 on 30/05/2021 - 11:44

                  @AndyC1: They are actually called a 'talent acquisition officer' at this particular company if a title is so important to you.

                  • nailsforlunch on 30/05/2021 - 13:16
                    +1

                    @Lucy1: 3 degrees makes you worth less than 1 imo. I'd rather someone with years of experience that can do the job than a career student.

                    • Lucy1 on 30/05/2021 - 17:12

                      @nailsforlunch: I also have 10 years of work experience in addition to my degrees (have always worked fulltime and studied on the side). I'm in my 30s.

  • Orico on 29/05/2021 - 20:31

    I'm soon to graduate with a comp sci degree

    I literally see 100+ jobs on jora and Linkedin for developers. Go apply. Stop complaining.
    Lucy is a girl's name. You're literally gold for companies. Getting women to code and enjoy it is like moving a mountain.

    I'm an engineer and I would love it if you joined my company because I can't stand the site of awkward low EQ dudes EVERYWHERE! Nothing like a woman's perspective and presence to keep them in line.

    Every year I literally sift through resumes looking for women who are qualified to join the software development and cloud teams.

    • Islund on 29/05/2021 - 20:41

      Wow! Guys have low eq.

      • Orico on 29/05/2021 - 20:43

        sight*

    • bdl on 29/05/2021 - 20:44
      +2

      Do you engineer Orico stuff for MSY? :)

  • Ghost47 on 29/05/2021 - 20:44
    +1

    Can you work at the place in a full time role where you did the grad program? If they liked you and you have connections surely they can find a place for you?

    Grad roles are competitive AF, seriously the amount of talent out there is immense.

    • Lucy1 on 30/05/2021 - 17:29

      No I can't, as entry is through the graduate program.

      Would you recommend masters to stand out because of how competitive grad roles are? I'm doing a coding bootcamp at the moment.

      • Ghost47 on 30/05/2021 - 20:33

        I think masters only really helps if you have industry experience TBH. I’ve heard stories about people not getting into a grad program so they did a masters but I don’t think it reflects well on the person and sort of says “yeah I didn’t get a intro a grad program so did further study.”

        This is anecdotal though so you might have a different experience! People still do get into grad programs with masters though.

        • Lucy1 on 30/05/2021 - 22:23

          I would continue to work fulltime whilst studying my masters in the evening. That is how I did my bachelors.

          Does a masters help much in terms of job security?

  • trustnoone on 29/05/2021 - 21:22
    +4

    Okay, at the chance of being very wrong here (and apologies in advance), this just seems like it has a lot of odd points to it. I've never seen grad roles for any engineering companies start at $100K+, at least not for the grad program, purely because the idea of the graduate program is to get people with high potential and low experience to learn and develop.

    I could see they would want to offer you $100K+ a year because you did that well during an internship, but then they can just "hire you", theres no process that gets bungled that would stop them from doing so until 2023. If they want to hire you they simply just can. To be honest, thats probably true for the grad part above also.

    IMO I think you were just placed outside the cut off for 2022 need, but they're willing to put you in the front of the line for 2023 as a pretty good candidate which makes more sense to me.

    Do you have family or are worried of your career path or have some other dependency? Because you literally have a job lined up at over $100K a year for 2023 in the profession and company that you want. So honestly I have to imagine there is some dependency or need for a job right now, otherwise why not wait and enjoy your life for the next year or so? Pick a part time job, and spend some time learning things you want or enjoy that you're definitely not going to be able to do when you start working. Or is there a really important reason you need to start now?

    Also my 2 cents (not that you asked lol) but usually the $140K+ range of software engineers I know are getting no growth because they're highly specialized in a single area that they do specifically. I just want to let you know because I know many people in my time thats quit their high paying job for a lower one purely for growth (growth looks to be important to you from above?).

    • [Deactivated] on 29/05/2021 - 21:32

      I've seen a few that pay 100k+ as a grad, IMC in Sydney for example (175 iirc). A friend of mine got pretty close but after a few years he's close to 140k (melb), not specialized. He did quite average at uni as well.

      • trustnoone on 29/05/2021 - 21:37

        Oh whoa, I guess thats a new one for me. Thanks for the heads up/letting me know.

      • Lucy1 on 30/05/2021 - 01:35

        Yeah it's one of those.

      • [Deactivated] on 01/06/2021 - 00:40

        IMC is 175 when you account for bonus. Base is $100k.

    • Lucy1 on 30/05/2021 - 17:28

      No family, am single. But I live in Sydney and it's expensive. I'm in my 30s and am thinking a lot more about my future (buying an apartment, saving for retirement etc). On minimum wage and with insecure employment, those things are not really possible. Also want to have a good career.

      • [Deactivated] on 01/06/2021 - 09:18

        Well I think you're well on track. I know you're not earning a lot now, but I know several people who started exactly on 42k and now raking it.

  • chillybags on 29/05/2021 - 21:31

    I missed out on a graduate role with a company I had done internship with in the past. They did give me another 3 month internship which kept my foot in the door. At the end of the three months they put me on their graduate program with an immediate start.

    If you want to stay with the graduate program company and like the role then I would suggest that you stick it out with that company even if it means your career start is delayed till next year. See if they can get you a contract for the 2022 grad program now, even if this doesn't begin now.

    As for now, you can continue to work where you are but doesn't sound like you are happy or the money is great. Maybe earn a bit more to do some travel around the country or use the spare time to learn a new skill.

  • brendanm on 29/05/2021 - 21:31
    +1

    People need to read ops last post to see why a 1 year delay is a massive problem.

  • [Deactivated] on 29/05/2021 - 21:34
    +2

    Didn't realise the pay difference between some companies were so large for programmers. 42k a year is absurd

  • Muzeeb on 30/05/2021 - 00:57

    Two options:

    A) Go back as a teacher at a regional private school delivering programming and computer science.

    $100k per year
    Sh!t tonne of holidays
    Buy a cheaper house in a regional town

    B) study to become a nurse and bank $200k per annum minimum.

  • Drakesy on 30/05/2021 - 01:14
    +1

    Go into government IT for a year then apply again for the grad program, you'll still get your $80k+
    many grad programs (at least my experience) were a reason for the company to pay you slave wages while working you to the bone.
    At least if you get a good wage for the long hours it'll be worth it.

    • Lucy1 on 30/05/2021 - 01:36

      I might be able to negotiate an increase in dec when my contract comes up for renewal. I hear that 60k is pretty standard for new grads.

      • morse on 30/05/2021 - 03:50

        I’m in a completely different field but second the benefits of a gov job search here https://careers.vic.gov.au/ and here https://www.apsjobs.gov.au/s/ to get an idea of what opportunities there are. Each position has a contact person listed so there is no harm in giving them a call and asking about the role and others that might come up in the future.

        • Lucy1 on 30/05/2021 - 22:23

          Thanks, I will check that out.

  • Hardlyworkin on 30/05/2021 - 08:24

    I recommend a resilience course instead is extra certificates. Life is about overcoming obstacles.

  • serpserpserp on 30/05/2021 - 09:11

    What happened to all the other grad programs you applied for?

    • Lucy1 on 30/05/2021 - 11:17

      Still waiting to hear on a couple, but so far no luck

  • original15 on 30/05/2021 - 09:28

    If you want to do the grad program at company A, make sure you’ll still be eligible after working for a year, if yes - take another job with that company, it will benefit your understanding of the organisation, make it easy for you to start making relationships there, and theoretically be easier for you to secure a position there the next intake

    It’s also a positive story/stat the team running the program can promote about internal grads etc etc

  • Ocker on 30/05/2021 - 09:33

    It's still early days as you may well find that some people have actually accepted more than one 2022 intake job and will not proceed with offers they have.

  • OzHunterNSW on 30/05/2021 - 10:45
    +1

    What are you talking about… you only just graduated and already moaning your life is going nowhere.
    You just said they have you placed in their programme for next year! What is 6 months?
    You are employed now… and what, can't wait 6 months?

    • Lucy1 on 30/05/2021 - 11:20
      -1

      No they accidently put me in the march 2023 graduate program, over 18 months wait with no job once my current contract ends at the end of 2021. Hence why I need to find something else

      • pharkurnell on 30/05/2021 - 12:01
        +2

        Hence why I need to find something else

        But you said they had offered you many other positions, but you feel your too important for those positions…

        • Lucy1 on 30/05/2021 - 12:08

          The opposite actually. I'm not qualified for marketing, finance, accounting etc and as such I wouldn't do well in one of those positions.

  • terrys on 30/05/2021 - 13:32

    "for 42k a year, doing a lot of hours on minimum wage."

    That's 39197.60 . You're ~ $60 a week over than and only getting double what the unemployment benefit is.

    "I'm not qualified for marketing, finance, accounting"

    Then you'd be on a good wicket then, given that there will be plenty of scope in all those departments for a data entry operator with the skill to conceptualise the algorithms they are supplying. Your also getting better equipment as an honours graduate than is usually handed to the new PhD when they enter a laboratory.

    Your acceptance in the graduate program is a feather in your cap, and I can understand your disappointment, I turned down NZ156,000 per annum in 1989 to pursue a degree only to be slugged with Austudy payments whilst working for low wages later as the trigger amount for deductions wasn't updated for a few years, however it was the choice I'd made.

  • tabitha731 on 30/05/2021 - 17:30
    +1

    Apply for other graduate programs with other financial companies, the one you did your internship isnt the only 9ne to have a graduate program.

    • Lucy1 on 30/05/2021 - 22:31

      Yeah I've tried for a couple, I usually fail at the coding interview stage. The bar is very high if it is a prestigious company. Will keep trying though, thanks

      • POSITIVEVIBESONLY on 31/05/2021 - 10:41

        Try spamming leetcode, hackerrank. Make sure you time yourself and maybe have sometime talk over your logic with as some of the interviews are pair programming. I would read over the reddit post and make sure you know everything that it covers including information about the company you are interviewing with and answers to simple questions like why you want to work for them, what you want to achieve with them/contribute to them and how you problem solve. Show genuine interest in their company, people and culture.

        https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/1jov24/h…

        This gives a very good insight on how the software industry is too

        https://www.reddit.com/r/ExperiencedDevs/comments/nmodyl/dru…

  • brad1-8tsi on 30/05/2021 - 21:33
    +2

    your story lost credibility when you said you work 24/7

    • Lucy1 on 30/05/2021 - 22:18

      I am a workaholic, and I say yes to everything which is why I end up working crazy hours. Last two years I have been working full time and studying online full time at the same time, and taken on additional responsibilities including side gigs (tutoring, summer camps).

      I don't have a family, I don't date and I rarely go out for non-work purposes. Career is everything at the moment. I'm sacrificing everything to make this career change.

  • POSITIVEVIBESONLY on 31/05/2021 - 10:34

    It seems you're doing great already, finding FT software experience during uni and able to even secure a position right after graduation. These are your first years of working in the software industry and getting a grad program is a fast track to higher paid jobs but not everyone makes it. There's just some luck involved in timing and if you click with people. Maybe aim slightly lower and you won't be so disappointed. Pay is all relative and I remember when I first started working FT, I loved my job earning 50k. Changing careers like that you'll have to deal with just earning less for a while before getting the high paying job.

    You seem like a high achiever and you'll be able to land a nice 65-75k junior role easily, just apply everywhere. This is my advice.

    Don't only go for graduate programs if you want to move now, look for any roles and talk to recruiters.
    Working super hard for your company will get you no where, know who to talk to and what work to do.
    Make sure you're learning new skills at your workplace, if not it's time to leave.
    Experience goes a long way, once you have the 1.5-2 years of FT experience job offers fly in from everywhere.
    Get better at coding in interviews and answering questions in the STAR format.
    Don't do a masters or more education, you want experience not more pieces of paper. (Unless you're going into data)
    Last but not least if a company shafted me like that, I would never work for them ever. If they're screwing up on something as simple as job offers/graduation program offer, I wonder what else they're screw you over when you're working for them.

    As a fellow software engineer who changed careers, good luck.

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