Hi,
Planning on buying a brand new Toyota Corolla Hybrid sedan this year and would like to know people's experiences regarding how long the hybrid batteries usually last in these Toyotas before they need to be replaced?
Car will be driven roughly 12,000km per year and will be kept for 15-20 years.
I would obviously be servicing the car at the required intervals and doing all that is required in terms of maintenance of a car.
Cheers
Twice as long as half its length.
Depends how long you drive it
like 15 years
From Toyota:
I mean, there's plenty of fleet vehicles (Taxis) that have over 1M kms on the original battery and still going strong.
More you drive it the longer it lasts because leaving it sitting around the battery will discharge too low. I have latest Corolla and the battery seems to be kept by the software between 50% to 80% in the city. It will only go up to 100% after a long drive on the freeway.
Latest Camry and Corolla Hybrids are on 12 month 15k/km service intervals. I'd suggest people try to make sure they make the most of it considering the service is only about $200 per year for first 5 years.
That's interesting I would not have thought that driving more would be better for the battery.
I think driving more in higher speed conditions (battery cycles from 70-90% as indicated by the battery meter) would be better for the battery as it don't go thru big cycles of charging and discharging that may happen in stop/start traffic.
I have latest Corolla and the battery seems to be kept by the software between 50% to 80% in the city.
That's so it has room to store your energy from regenerative braking.
Less to do with regen more to do with the fact that electric motor gets used more often to accelerate and other functions.
would like to know from people's experiences how long the hybrid batteries in Toyota cars last before they need to be replaced?
Toyota offer 8 or 10 year warranty on them depending on the model/when it was sold, so that should give you an idea for how long they think they will last.
Personally done over 160k in two different hybrid cars and zero issues related to the hybrid drivetrain.
drove it around 250,000km over the next 20 years
Honestly any car the older it gets the more parts that need replacing. So don't just look at the battery. VW for example, some models eat DSG clutches after only a few years.
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1 hour 8 min ago
how long the hybrid batteries in Toyota cars last before they need to be replaced
Ask the OP here, they are a Toyota battery expert.
A long time.
Yeah I hope so. I do see quite a few second hand hybrid Toyotas with pretty high kilometres.
IMWO - I wouldnt think the batteries would last 10yrs let alone 20… but also depends on what your doing, how often you run them flat, you charge them etc and about 500 other variables.
I wouldnt think the batteries would last 10yrs
Why would Toyota warrant them 10 years if they didn't think they'd last even that long.
Think about it for a second…
thought about it.. still dont believe it, most people wouldnt keep the car 10 yrs + other variables…
how many conditions are attached to the warranty..etc
Get it checked out with yearly servicing.
Put it this way, they'll only warrant the engine for 7yrs with similar conditions
And many Toyota owners own their cars for over 10yrs. That would be an expensive exercise if they were replacing the batteries all the time (which, they hardly ever do, just fyi)
I was reading something online yesterday in the states where they spoke to prius owners about the batteries, and most were getting 240k+ miles out of theirs (400k+ kms)
But that's fine, keep thinking they won't last 10yrs, despite a lack of evidence
Another owner of the Australian-built Camry Hybrid 2009 (one of the first few that was made in Dec, 2009) 180,000km, no trouble with the hybrid components or any other components for that matter except for CV boot leak (fixed under warranty on year 2). Only needed yearly oil/fluid change and spark plug changed once. Probably need to service the hybrid coolant sometime this year (overdue, recommended at 160K). Changed brake pads/rotor prematurely at 100,000km thinking they were cooked. They were only half-worn, due to mostly highway driving, could probably last another 100K if I was counting my pennies. Still on the original 12v battery (not the battery that drives the wheels) 11 years and counting, as it doesn't do much work unlike batteries in conventional engined cars.
The hybrid components have really stood the test of time and paid itself back plus more in fuel savings over the regular Camry. Still averaging around 6L per 100km consistently. Can't recommend the Toyota's hybrid drivetrain enough for its power delivery and reliability.
Thanks that very useful to know.
I bought a 2nd hand 04 prius in 07 with 40k on the clock. Battery died in 2017, so lasted 13 years from new. The Nicad battery cost about 2500 installed from toyota dealer. Have done annual servicing with my local mechanic only since I bought it in 07. Had water pump failures 2 years ago (the mechanical and electrical), but this is a known problem with these engines. Has been a fairly consistent 5l/100km economy over this time(nearing 200K). If I bought a lexus, the same battery is 4K installed. I can recommend these cars - the newer ones would be more reliable. The silence at 'idle' is deafening.
Toyota doesn't use NiCd batteries in their hybrid cars. They use NiMH.
I've been looking at 2005-2010 Lexus GS450h's recently. There are two up for sale on Carsales at the moment that have had batteries replaced. Not sure if that's helpful or not but it's just something that I'd noticed.
Thanks. I'm hoping the current generation have greater longevity than the hybrid tech from that era.
To add to this, my old man's got a 2013 Prius C as his main driving school vehicle with 240kkm on the clock, still on the original battery and he still gets around 4-5L/100km indicating battery is running fine.
When not in lockdown he is doing about 800km/week on average.
The GS450h you're looking at is a completely different beast to the Toyota's OP is considering. The GS is a performance sedan and as such the hybrid is under a lot more stress (it's predominantly used for acceleration even at higher speeds which normal Toyota's won't). As such the battery in the GS/RX/LS (given the performance versions so 400h/450h/600hl models and not the 300h models) will be in a much worse condition if not driven for long ranges, a Toyota hybrid specialist told me you want around 20-25kkm per year on average to expect the batteries to last.
I've helped friends buy ones with 200kkm that still run on the original battery even now with 250kkm, and I know 1 case which was bought with low km (70-80kkm) and needed a battery replacement around the 10-11 year mark.
GS450h is a lovely car given you can put up with the potential battery cost and the front suspension issues they are known for. All up put aside about $4-6k emergency funds for repairs that might come up and you're good to go.
In the end I didn't end up buying one for myself and went with the safer IS350, same amount of power and torque, same acceleration and feels a lot lighter. Apart from the tiny back seats I don't have any complaints. If has a bigger boot than GS450h because of the hybrid batteries stealing the boot, and it's cheaper to insure than GS as well. Just make sure you get the Sports Luxury which are super hard to find… Failing that F Sport is the model to get.
Thanks mate. I wish I'd had that info a week ago. A lot of hours of research to come to the same conclusion as you! Fingers crossed I can find a good IS350 SL.
It's okay, now you are better informed.
Feel free to ask me questions any questions as I have spent far more time than I'm willing to admit on research for Lexus models and what not 😅
In the end I feel like I got a good deal considering the market, $14k for a 2013 IS350. KMs are high (almost 300kkm) but it's been meticulously looked after and my mechanic couldn't believe it's had as many KMs as the clock showed.
What I can tell you though is to not rush the decision, make sure you test drive a few IS350s (or whatever model you decide) before you make the decision, it's only when you test a few that you start getting a few for the car and if it's a good one or not. The golden rule is that you have to miss a couple of good deals to know what a good deal is ;)
Make sure all services have been done on the time or KM. The less owners the better. IS350s are notorious for being project cars and riced up. I was lucky to get one stock. The F Sport and Sports Luxury drive significantly different, F Sport is much more stiffer and direct Sports Luxury is very plush.
As mentioned before the IS350 Sports Luxury is very rare…
Lastly MY13 (2013-2014) is the only ones that can do Bluetooth music stream, the other ones are only hands-free. Mine is MY12 and I fixed the issue by buying the Bovee iPhone to Bluetooth adaptor for $200 it integrates with steering wheel controls so it's good enough. I'm very tempted to get the Android Auto solution from GROM VLine but the $1000 cost is prohibiting, specially since this is not our long drive car and more of a weekend fun car 😃
@OpayuOnam: Thanks man, all great advice. My current plan is to test drive an IS350 SL and a GS300SL and see what I like. Definitely want plush suspension as it'll be a daily as we have a MX5 for my weekend/ future track car.
Do you have any experience on the 300SL NVH?
I didn't know that about the Bluetooth being phone only, I assumed it did music as well. I'm not sure about the GROM either. If I keep the car for many years it'd be worth it but I tend to only keep cars for a few years before I get upgradeitis.
@captaincabinets: The GS300 is super comfy, NVH is very similar to GS450h apart from dead silent idle in the hybrid. The acceleration though is another story all together… GS300 just feels like a damn battleship as it's very long and heavy for that 3.0L engine. It's a great daily driver.
I've seen very few of GS300s lately, they used to be so common a couple of years ago, this could either be people keeping them or the mere fact that they sold very few of them.
I really dig the dash panel style of this generation GS, the brushed aluminium is so classy!
If you haven't driven one did keep in mind that the back seat leg room is very limited due to the RWD drive tunnel.
I hate to say this but purely as a driver GS300 at the right price will probably be a tad bit more comfy (longer wheelbase). On the other hand IS350 is a comfy enough but soooooo much faster, it's surreal. IS350 has got the kind of power to weight ratio that can kick you back to your seat 😃 And all this with actually better fuel efficiency due to the more advanced engine.
The actual fuel efficiency is bizarrely to the IS350 favour, but I guess that's what you get when a light car gets an over powered engine. Both IS250 and GS300 have worse fuel efficiency than IS350.
That aside I feel like the inline in GS300 sounds so damn good!
The IS350 will have a newer infotainment unit with better res as it's a generation newer unless you manage to find a 2010/2011 GS300. and yes it's a pity about Bluetooth but such is life. The $200 dongle does 75% of the job as such it's not too bad.
Some GS250/350s do creep to low $20k every once in a while but you have to be super quick.
I'm going to throw a wrench to into your calculations and say keep an eye out for GS430/460 and LS460/600hL, super rare a bit more maintenance (specially if still have factory air suspensions that will eventually need swapping) but man they offer great value since no one wants these big ass boats. I've got searches for both and will be swapping my ES300 with one if I can find the right condition at the right price.
It's a pity we didn't get ES350 down under from 2005-2013 as that would have been the car to buy. I can fully recommend the ES300 2004/2005 if you can find one under $10k, it's so much better than both GS/IS for NVH at the cost of aging tech. Put a $400 head unit in it and you're good as far as GPS and audio is concerned, but no radar cruise or autonomous breaking there for you.
@OpayuOnam: This is an example of cheaper new gens, but given it's been on the market for 1 week and hasn't sold yet I'd wager to say something probably wrong with it.
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/Lexus-IS-2013/OAG-A…
Don't worry about the centre console arm rest rip, that's a $100-200 part from are let's or ordered from Japan. Or worst case scenario get your local upholstery shop to do it for $50 material and 1-2 hour labour.
So if in market and this is in your budget, granted nothing else wrong with it then jump on this as the new generation is so much more advanced than the old ones, this F Sport looks to have Enhancement Pack 2 as it has Mark Levinson audio. It would mean it has both cooled and heated front seats, memory seats for passenger and driver, radar cruise, parking sensors front and back. And maybe blind spot monitoring as well. Plus it gets the super cool moving dash panel (like LFA) when you go to Sports+ mode it'll shift to side and become aggressive lol
If I hadn't bought the IS350 recently I might have been tempted by this. Again I'm assuming car has nothing wrong with it.
@OpayuOnam: Man, thanks for your super detailed replies. This is all really helpful. I'm quite obsessed with cars and started window shopping for Lexus' a couple of years ago when I saw a cheap old LS430 but my friends and wife aren't really interested. I haven't joined any Lexus forums either but probably should.
Totally agree about missing out on the ES350. One of my options I've been considering was to get the ES300 2004/2005 for around $10k like you said, and save up for a newer Lexus in the future. I've put that plan on the backburner because the GS / IS are newer / better tech / better looking but the ES seems like great value. My original budget was $10k which then ballooned to $20k when I started researching the IS350.
I've definitely considered GS & LS 430/460! In the end I'd given up my search due to fears about the airbag suspension replacements costing huge amounts. I was just digging around and found some KYB replacement shocks for the LS460. Interesting!
ebay.com.au/itm/153584530132?hash=item23c259f2d4:g:UKoAAOSw-RNgkcph:sc:AU_Regular!0822!AU!-1&frcectupt=true
@captaincabinets: Hahaha so our thinking is not too far apart 😉
LS430s are as good as cars get really, if you ever have the opportunity to seat and drive in one do so and you'll be amazed at the level of quality and comfort it offers, not even considering it's age. It's simply great if you can live past the old tech and high fuel usage. They were profoundly over engineered and are simply best cars ever made in my opinion (the mechanic from savage geese also said this as well).
Good luck with the search man, but I have to say in the current climate you really have to adjust your expectations with a $20k IS350 (in my case it was KMs).
As for that cheap suspensions, they've always been around. They will leak after 9 months and will need replacing after a year. The real fix is really to change with spring suspension at a mechanic who knows these cars, all 4 should cost about $1k replaced if you source the parts yourself. The other option is the $8k air suspensions which will last 8-10 years before needing replacement 😅
Now I'm gonna play devil's advocate: if you're really adventurous go and have a look at importing ES350 (or LS/GS for that matter) from Japan, they are very affordable but the caveat is not knowing origin and full condition before it lands here hehe
Anyways good luck with the search man, and I'm sure whatever you buy you'll enjoy and won't be your last Lexus ;) most people I know have already converted or are thinking of converting soon. And those who went with other brands already have regrets lol
Besides occasionally when I give colleagues a lift in my ES300 I get questions like, I'd this a hybrid, or this really 2004 or does this really have 225kkm?
Planning on buying a brand new Toyota Corolla Hybrid sedan this year
Fyi those wheel covers are going very soon, will be replaced with an alloy (though there is a 15" alloy under the wheel cover…)
So basically, what you save in fuel you have to put in for replacing batteries, am I asking the right question here?
applause
Depends on length of ownership. Battery should last 400k+ kms
So if you had it for 10 years and didn't replace the batteries, your basically selling the car with more problems for the next owner?
Then this is the problem, a hybrid car will be worth less then say a non hybrid car.
What car doesn't have expensive issues at 400,000+ kms?
Maybe it’s a the right type of question but the maths seems a bit off. Did you mean how much fuel saving is there when you take into account the replacement of the battery over time? There may be other factors at play as well such as the electric maintenance vs the internal combustion maintenance as well. Also depreciation factors for hybrids vs non hybrids.
Consider the fact that hybrid breaks wear off a lot slower due to regenerative breaks for charging batteries.
At the end of the day it's really hard to try and calculate it down to a number, you are at the mercy of the fuel price which fluctuates and the more expensive the fuel is the faster the returns are.
Battery replacement cost seem to have bottomed out.
and the batteries are environmentally problematic to dispose if properly.
How longs a piece of string?