Purchase or Don’t Purchase a Diesel Car?

Thinking of buying a Diesel car but not sure if it’s worth and will it keep it’s value in over the next 7 to 10yrs with EV hitting the market.
What are your thoughts? How long before we ban diesel cars in Australia?

Edit 1: Mainly city driving but do plan on driving at least 150 km each way (~300km return to base) every 2 to 3 months to start with and maybe travelling more over yrs with more experience.

No towing at this stage or very limited. Very little off-road and beach driving. Once or twice per yr.

Would prefer vehicle to be comfortable and spacious for 4 adults and luggage.

Considering following 4WD
Mux, Prado, Pajero S

Poll Options

  • 46
    Buy the Diesel car now
  • 3
    Wait for another 6months for better Diesel options
  • 63
    Don’t buy Diesel car, its future is dark

Comments

  • +5

    Be careful of DPF…. Diesel Particulate Filter… make sure you understand the issues these filters bring, particularly if you dont do many klm..

    • -1

      Or in my experience, make sure the car actually has a DPF, I bought a base model BT-50 and after repeatedly taking it back due to "excessive smoking" I am told there is no DPF so crap blowing out back is normal !

      • Really? That’s a news to me. Thanks

        • +1

          Recently retired model, 2.2L diesel Cab/Tray manufactured before 2017 = no DPF ;-(

      • How excessive is this? The only time I've seen rangers smoke is when they have a split intercooler pipe.

  • +13

    Depends on what you are doing. Diesels for long haul and towing. Petrol for mixed long haul and city driving. Hybrid/EV for predominantly city driving.

  • How many km's pa?
    Premium price over equivalent petrol car?

  • +1

    I don’t think any car bought today be it diesel, petrol or electric, will hold its value very well in the future.

    If I were to buy today, I would run it into the ground. Also depends on what the car is and is used for?

  • +1

    I wouldn't get a diesel now unless you had a special requirement for it (eg rural). I was super glad to offload my passat alltrack during the coronavirus surge on 2nd cars.

  • Heaps of demand for 4WD diesels right now and I think there will be for a long time yet. If you do a lot of interstate travel/highway driving then diesel is great for that too. I would not buy a brand new ICE car this late in the game personally.

    • What would you consider instead. Been looking into Prado, Pajero S, Mux

        • +4

          I think OP needs a car that's in his home garage more often than a mechanic's

  • Why a diesel? What type of car? New or used (what age)?

    Don’t buy a diesel if you only do city driving and only get out on the open road every 6 months.

    Diesel passenger vehicles are fading away, except for towing/load carrying duties. Petrol is almost as efficient when coupled with a turbo and even more so with hybrid.

    • +1

      what would be the minimum distance on open road? would a weekly 100km return trip on the regional highways be suffice?

      diesel is tempting for some people, becos 1 tank can last 650 - 800kms, depending on the vehicle.

    • New car, mainly cause with current covid tax on buying a second hand car doesn’t make sense specially a 4x4

    • -3

      why turbo? Turbo is only useful if you're speeding (and I mean really speeding, not you slowly going up and down the speedo) or racing at high rpm. Useless if you're just casual city driving since no one really goes over 3k rpm due to the noise or too delicate of a driver. I would have thought a supercharger would be better use here than a turbo since the boost is linear than exponential which should improve overall torque across the whole rpm band rather than it all stuck up at the high end and nothing at the low end which is where you'll mostly be driving at.

      • +2

        Turbo for smaller capacity engine with he same power as a larger one. Ie turbo 2L they fitted to falcons was similar power to 4l, with less fuel use. You can tune (size) your turbo to provide boost at lower revs. My ute boost comes on at around 1500.

        It’s not just for ‘racing’. It’s associated with high power and speed because they add power, but with additional complexity and (historically) reliability issues.

        Plenty of small capacity turbo petrol engines on the market now to reduce fuel consumption. Quite a few with twin turbo to allow boost in a wider range of operation. Small turbo to spin up quickly and provide a bit of boost at low revs, then a larger one to provide more power in higher revs when the smaller one becomes less efficient.

        • Ie turbo 2L they fitted to falcons was similar power to 4l, with less fuel use.

          That's not what my automotive teacher said…. He reckons a smaller turbo or super charged engine uses just as much fuel as a larger naturally aspirated one.

          (historically) reliability issues

          Yeah I heard you have to like let your car cool down when you want to turn it off for a few minutes on a turbocharged a car or else you'll kill the car… Doesn't seem to be the case if it were supercharged…

          Quite a few with twin turbo to allow boost in a wider range of operation. Small turbo to spin up quickly and provide a bit of boost at low revs, then a larger one to provide more power in higher revs when the smaller one becomes less efficient.

          Huh….I didn't know you could do that… So in theory, you could have a turbo for each RPM band (0 to 2k, 2k to 4k, 4k to 6k, 6k to 8k = 4 turbos each dedicated to their respective RPM band?) you want boost and have boost from just sitting idle all the way to your car's redline?

          • @Zachary:

            That's not what my automotive teacher said…. He reckons a smaller turbo or super charged engine uses just as much fuel as a larger naturally aspirated one.

            That’s old school thinking to a certain extent. Depends how you drive it, but modern engines are getting smaller with more power and less fuel used. Many people drive smaller engines harder because they think they are too slow. Drive harder - more fuel. Smaller engine with forced induction gives just as much power and won’t need to get flogged most of the time.

            Yeah I heard you have to like let your car cool down when you want to turn it off for a few minutes on a turbocharged a car or else you'll kill the car… Doesn't seem to be the case if it were supercharged…

            Again, old school. Modern turbos at better built, oiled and intercooled which means as long as you aren’t flogging it stupid before you stop you don’t need to ‘cool it down’. Drove normally, just turn it off when you stop.

            Huh….I didn't know you could do that… So in theory, you could have a turbo for each RPM band (0 to 2k, 2k to 4k, 4k to 6k, 6k to 8k = 4 turbos each dedicated to their respective RPM band?) you want boost and have boost from just sitting idle all the way to your car's redline?

            Pretty much, but thatd be dumb and too complex. 2 is enough. I’ve driven a 2l twin turbo Amarok and the power delivery is pretty linear compared to other single turbo diesel utes. Single turbo are often positively lethargic until boost comes on then it puts you sideways off the road in the wet.

            • @Euphemistic:

              Again, old school. Modern turbos at better built, oiled and intercooled which means as long as you aren’t flogging it stupid before you stop you don’t need to ‘cool it down’. Drove normally, just turn it off when you stop.

              So technically you do still need to let it "cool down" after a good thrashing…

              Pretty much, but thatd be dumb and too complex. 2 is enough.

              Didn't the veyron have quad turbos? Or was it the Audi Le Mans Quattro?

              • @Zachary:

                So technically you do still need to let it "cool down" after a good thrashing…

                Like many machines, stopping it immediately after running it at max is next most likely to cause issues after going straight to max when cold. Take it easy for a minute or two before stopping, but there’s no real need to park and idle for 2 minutes.

                Didn't the veyron have quad turbos? Or was it the Audi Le Mans Quattro?

                Maybe the Veyron did have quad turbos, but that’s hardly a sensible car. It’s also got something like 10 radiators in it for cooling. Very complex, but very expensive.

                • @Euphemistic:

                  Like many machines, stopping it immediately after running it at max is next most likely to cause issues after going straight to max when cold.

                  Does that apply to lawn mowers, chainsaws, whipper snippers and other gardening power tools that everyone pretty much goes max revs on as soon as the thing starts to do their job? And then abruptly turns it off after they finish? My mum does that to her lawn mower; starts it up with maximum throttle(and in freezing cold temperature too sometimes…), mows the lawn in maximum throttle and then shuts it off instantly once she's done without lowering the throttle level down to idle like and then let it sit there for a couple of minutes and then turn it off.

                  • @Zachary: It doesn’t need a couple of minutes, just 10 seconds or so. But in reality a mower doesn’t have a very long life in terms of hours as they only run an hour a week or so.

    • +10

      Wrong on all fronts

  • +1

    Most diesel cars are great. cheaper to run than petrol car (within category) and if maintained properly it will last a very long time… but no, it will not keep its value

  • +4

    Diesel will be around for quite some time to come, don't let electric Elon and his fallacy of a cyber truck or big rig truck fool you into anything else.
    City passenger type cars will see the biggest growth in electrification, but blue singlet bogan chariots and long haul roadtrains will still need the rotting plant gooeyness of diesel.

  • +7

    Do you have any particular car in mind? If so, assuming there are petrol and diesel variants available, drive both and see which you prefer.

    I have owned predominantly petrol cars over the eight cars I've owned. My present car is a 2.0l Peugeot diesel, and I love it.

    Diesel cars yes, do generally cost a little more over a petrol variant, however that delta in price pretty much carries over at sale time as well - assuming you look after it - which you should regardless of petrol or diesel!

    Austaurean's comment regarding the DPF is something to keep in mind, unless you're doing country/highway KMs regularly. I do city commutes, so I do make sure I take a spin up the M1 to somewhere like Terrigal, etc. one weekend a fortnight to give the DPF the opportunity to burn off the particulates. If you're not doing the KMs I noted at the beginning of this sentence, then you need to be prepared to do a similar kind of freeway drive routine, otherwise you will likely run into DPF issues down the track, and they are not cheap to fix or replace.

    Otherwise, I love my diesel. Diesel engines will give you far more torque and at very low RPMs over an aspirated petrol engine, and this makes the driving experience a lot more enjoyable for a smaller capacity engine. Fuel economy is also a positive in general. Diesel usually runs a few to quite a lot of cents cheaper than petrol, and it will take you a lot further than petrol.

    I recently filled up (70l tank) prior to a weekend drive to Canberra from Sydney and over the course of a week and a bit, pulled 960km out of that one tank of diesel.

    I haven't driven or contemplated an EV, I have no opinion on them yet.

    • +2

      Same experience with a 2L Peugeot diesel. Was a great car. Syd-bris or Syd-mel, fully loaded, bikes on roof racks, without worrying about fuel at all. Not having to go to the servo as much during the week is also a boon.

    • +2

      Peugeot diesels are amazing, very reliable and go forever. My Peugeot is petrol but love it all the same.

  • +2

    Diesel lovers are a niche and also people who need it are a niche.

    I assume you are doing high kilometres and want it to last if you are buying diesel. Just don't buy it because you think you're saving on fuel because it will end up costing you.

  • Based on my carefull analysis of the various factors you provided to be considered in the decision

    Yes. Buy it

  • Diesel fuel economy walks all over petrol. Especially around town.

    I can get better fuel economy in my fully loaded 2500kg diesel VW transporter around town than i can in my VW turbo petrol, both 2lt capacity.

    • How I was told the other way around, I’ve been told that diesel is better for long distance

      • +1

        It’s all about torque baby

      • Normal Family of 4 and we have a santa fe 2.2Lt diesel. we do city and urban driving. i get 8.5L/ 100km and about 5.5L on the open highway,

        a full tank of fuel right now cost $1.30/lt on 65lt tank thats premium diesel

  • +2

    Considering following 4WD
    Mux, Prado, Pajero S

    This was important info that should've been at the start. People didn't know if it was a 4wd or a Golf…

    For 4wds you want diesel, and it'll be around for some time to come. Diesel 4wds will likely be the last cars to be around when we switch to other engines.

    Prado won't compete with a Pajero Sport or Mux, it's a different thing and will always be more expensive. Maybe a Fortuner?

    • +1

      Not wanting to tow or go off road, shouldn’t you be recommending a Hybrid Kruger?

      • +1

        At $60k starting price the Fortuner is cheaper

        Besides, it OP wants a diesel 4x4 it's too hard to convince them otherwise with an online post

        • Out of curiosity, how would you convince them otherwise at the dealer? Or is that too a hard task?

          • +2

            @redvaldez: Depends on overall usage. OP does mention going off-road a few times a year. Otherwise I'd try to find out how long the trips were, as diesels don't like being 'mums taxi'.

            Then there's the people who get a 7-seater with expectations of driving 7 people away for the weekend and no room for luggage

  • +1

    Diesel vehicles are not suited to short running around the city. Maintenance and repair costs are much higher than a petrol. Fuel savings, unless towing or high regular kilometres, will be easily outweighed by the costs of maintaining the vehicle.

    • never done anything extra to maintain my diesel in the 8 years i have owned it. just the scheduled service every year. and nothing more than i wouldn't normally do to a petrol car like tyres, brakes and wiper fluid.

    • -1

      Wrong

      • What is wrong?

        • Depreciation, Maintenance, Fuel costs etc etc.that people are sprouting as being the detriment of diesel.

          • +2

            @askme69: That wasn’t hard was it? Simply saying wrong doesn’t mean anything just gives you a sense of smug superiority. Giving reasons helps others understand and may prevent them repeating the falsehoods.

  • -1

    Would you buy a diesel if you want to keep the car for a long time?

    I read that the diesel engines are under higher pressure so would be subjected to more stress than a petrol engine. Is that true?

    • -2

      No.

      • +3

        Well it’s partly true. Yes, they use a lot higher fuel pressure and higher compression, but they are built stronger to cope and typically don’t rev as high as a petrol engine so the stresses are within design. A maintained diesel will run just as long as a maintained petrol engine. They appreciate oil changes more than petrol engines so skippin a service is more detrimental in a diesel.

  • +1

    Norway is banning new fossil fuel car sales from 2025. Other countries are 2030 & 2035. These will most likely be brought forward from both economics & societal pressure. Australia will at some stage introduce its own ban. A Conservative government (scum of the earth) won’t be in power forever & the narrative will change in Australia.
    Fossil fuel cars are stranded assets & electric cars have much longer working life spans. This is showing up in the much better resale value.
    Be very careful with your purchase decision

    • -2

      Sounds like buying up 4WDs would be a sound investment decision then.

      There is a demand for long range vehicles in Australia that isn't going to be met by electric vehicles in those time frames.

      • You obviously haven’t heard of the tri-motor Cybertruck
        Over 900km real world range & everything else such as towing capacity, ground clearance, torque destroy everything from a Landcruiser down. When it’s released this year, most 4WD purchases become stupid

    • I think the UK is doing something similar banning diesel cars at some point. The issue will be the manufacturers will eventually sell far less of them so parts will become super expensive generally in the future for diesels. I just switched from diesel to petrol for the first time in 15 years and will probably look at hybrid or EV if the government don’t tax them out of existence here..

  • +2

    Diesel cars are NOT for typical city transit driving
    They are designed for long distance or vehicles that do many kms.
    Ask any truck driver

  • +1

    As others have said - if you don't want to tow and are mainly city driving - don't buy a diesel.

    Towing a caravan, horse float, big boat, bush/off-road driving, frequent long trips etc etc - diesel is ideal.

    If not, it's bad on many fronts. More expensive to buy, more expensive to service, expensive if you make a mistake and put the wrong fuel in (did it once), higher depreciation (depending on model), DPF considerations, noisy, dirty fuel (have a look around the diesel pumps), very expensive to overhaul engine when needed (decades)

    I would go a hybrid electric. Very cheap to run around town and hybrid allows longer trips, plenty of torque at zero rpm, quiet and you're doing your bit for climate change. Hyundai do one that might suit and there are more in the pipeline.

    We're in the market for the new MUX due here last quarter this year, but we have a 2.5t caravan. Not many options other than diesel.

    • -2

      So sick of people on here posting BS. Diesel is far cleaner than any other petroleum, it has more CO2 per litre but creates FAR lower CO2 per KM travelled.

      • +1

        It has many other pollutants beyond carbon dioxide

  • Wife gets about 6l/100 in the diesel Passat driving to the train station, shops etc. I get 9.6l/100 in Touareg with stupid 32" AT tyres, and almost no highway running, highest top speed generally 80kmh.

    Some like diesel, some don't.

  • +1

    I have had a couple of diesels now. Great vehicles but yes DPF's can be an issue if not exercised properly. The good thing however if that a DPF can be removed and washed out with water if it starts clogging. Probably something for a diesel specialist to do if you are not used to working on engines.
    Replacement costs for a DPF system can be astronomical unless treated well. Do some Google searching on the subject and whichever vehicle you are targeting, find and join a Facebook group on the marque to see what issues people are talking about.

  • only thing i don't like about diesel cars is the cabin noise, i miss the silence of a petrol car.

    • My a6 diesel in serenity plus.

    • +1

      Lots of diesels that are quiet mate.

  • +2

    There's a couple of things to unpack here.

    Firstly, if you want a 4WD, you've got no choice but to get a diesel. Apart from Haval and LDV, the only new petrol 4WD available that comes to mind is the Y62 Patrol which I assume is outside of your budget.

    Secondly, why do you want a 4WD? They are more cumbersome to drive, and more expensive to purchase and maintain, than a similar SUV - there are certain trade-offs to be made to ensure their ability to carry loads and head off road. Don't get me wrong, modern 4WDs are quite livable, but if you aren't planning to tow or go off road in it, then what's the point? Someone else in this thread suggested a new Kluger - I'd be giving that a shortlist in preference to anything you've rattled off. It's similar or larger in size too.

    As others have said, DPF filters are an issue with diesels. However, I have a Pajero Sport and it's is quite good on that front. I'm on an owner's Facebook page and I can only think of one person who's had a genuine DPF issue. I've seen mine do a DPF burnoff during my morning 7 km commute (confirmed via my Scangauge) so it's definitely more urban-friendly than, say, the initial DPF-equipped Toyotas.

    Finally, to answer your question last, I don't see diesel going anywhere for quite some time. It's heavily used in the transportation and agricultural fields, and is the fuel of choice in rural areas - if anything, I could see petrol being banned before diesel. In 10 years time, maybe electric cars will be at the point in Australia where ICE-equipped cars start to lose their appeal (and hence their value), but it will be decades (if ever) before they're completely eliminated.

    • What year is your PS?

      • +1

        I've got a 2018 Pajero Sport, but all models from 2016 to present have the same engine/transmission/exhaust/DPF.

        • Under the given situation what car would you suggest. Any other option?

          • +1

            @cisco: I think you need to make a decision as to whether you want off road capability or not, first and foremost. For what it's worth, my partner has a RAV4 Hybrid Cruiser which cost exactly the same as my PS, but it's far nice to drive on road, and surprisingly isn't that much smaller.

            If you decide you want an off roader, I'm very happy with my Pajero Sport. The brand new MU-X that comes out later this year looks like it will be really good - although I wouldn't buy the current MU-X, it's very antiquated. Both the Fortuner and Prado are worth considering now that they have a decent engine (until recently they were incredibly lethargic) but you do pay a premium for a Toyota.

            If you're happy to forego offroading ability, I'm not too certain as I don't follow the SUV sphere, but a RAV4/Kluger or an equivalent Mazda would be worth a look imo.

  • I've had many diesel cars and love them. Right now I have a petrol Ford Mondeo and really want to get the diesel model… Buying the diesel version is usually more expensive!!! I drive about 10-15k pa and think savings are great. My partner has same car as me but diesel. Difference is $14 per 100km and hers $10. For me that would represent a $500pa saving if I had diesel. All trucks and commercial vehicles are diesel!! Less moving parts, less consumables, engines last longer.

    I've never had a DPF issue, but I regularly drive 10km+ hwy speeds…. I think that is enough to maintain the filter. If you always drive 2km trips It will get clogged, same as your heart!!!

    I've had many Peugeot diesels and love the Ford's diesel too.

    • Less moving parts

      Haha what?

  • Don't… they don't last long

    • +3

      Where do you get that idea? Trucks use Diesel engines and do millions of kms. A maintained diesel will run just as long, if not longer, than a maintained petrol engine.

  • +1

    This thread is good… Reminds me NOT to get another diesel despite lots of car reviewers favouring the diesel models over petrol. Thing to remember is that the car reviewers don't have the cars long enough to experience DPF and other issues that come with a diesel.

    My experience with a German diesel SUV is that they have great power and torque and are cheaper to fill up but if you don't do long 20min freeway runs multiple times a week then expect DPF problems within a few years. Mine had a dodgy AdBlue sensor problem and the whole unit including sensor, tank and pump had to be replaced. And given it's a German luxury SUV only original parts are available unless you want to DIY or go to a bush mechanic.

    So diesels cost more upfront, more to do general annual servicing, have DPF issues for most city and local drivers which in turn can cost a lot to rectify. Sure you'll save 10-20% in fuel costs but unless you do the KMs it's not worth the hassle.

  • good god this is a knowledge free zone here

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