Secured a grad role, now what.

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  pharkurnell on 27/06/2021 - 18:25

  1 - wait till you see what the company structure is like… Show interest but dont be pushy.
  2- how awkward it will be depends on your attitude and those around you.. some people or places dont care… others are extremely toxic.
  3- everyone tells them they will never have kids, most companies dont really care anymore about it either way,.
  4- you can always apply for any job, most of the time its a waste of yours and their time … some companies are insanely picky these days with qualifications - they can pick and choose what they like.

  YMMV

  • 

    Lucy1 on 27/06/2021 - 18:29

    How soon it is ok to leave after you realise that the place is not going to offer you career progression? You obviously have to see the grad program through.

    • 

      mskeggs on 27/06/2021 - 18:33

      +1

      You can, and should, leave any time the role isn't working out.
      If you end up with a string of short roles the question will be asked why you aren't able to fit in, though.

• 

  mskeggs on 27/06/2021 - 18:32

  +3

  1. I'd try and get some runs on the board before acting too ambitious. New grads at any age often think they know more than they do, and it takes a year or two to combine all the training with some experience to be able to back up ambition with substance.
  2. I work predominantly with people much younger, but not as a graduate recruit. It requires being interested in younger people's interests and cultural things to be able to have good relationships. I don't find it a problem, but I know other middle age people who have 'given up' on a lot of that stuff who would struggle.
  3. If you think it is something people are concerned about, there is nothing wrong with making a throw away comment along the lines of "motherhood isn't for me" if thats how you feel, but I don't really think it is anybody else's business.
  4. You can always apply. I would never discard an applicant with 8 years experience (but then, I would never require 10 years experience as a minimum!). If the fintech place has given you a role, I would suggest staying 2 years is a good idea, unless you were offered an amazing promotion elsewhere. Internal promotions are usually good early in your career, as employers quickly advance you if they see you can do more. Switching companies tends to bigger pay rises, and is the only option if your employer is slow to recognise your capability.

  My general comment is that a lot of these concerns fall away if you are out there demonstrating your high performance - employers will want you to move forward. The trouble comes when people expect the promotion without demonstrating the performance!

  • 

    Lucy1 on 27/06/2021 - 18:36

    Thank you, very helpful

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  Ocker on 27/06/2021 - 18:32

  +1

  Could you not have settled those questions during the interview process for your new role?

  • 

    Lucy1 on 27/06/2021 - 18:35

    The recruitment process has been pretty chaotic. I've been moved in and out of 5 different teams over the last month, haven't met the current boss. Been tricky to get answers.

    • 

      mskeggs on 27/06/2021 - 18:41

      Sounds like every startup with too much money trying to scale too quickly. It's a great environment for rapid advancement because there are so many things that need doing and nobody is sure who is doing them.
      You can keep volunteering for more responsibilities without treading on people's toes, a great way to get lots of varied experience quickly.

      • 

        Lucy1 on 27/06/2021 - 18:44

        Actually a massive fintech company, don't understand why it was such a mess. Hoping their name on my cv will help if I leave.

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  serpserpserp on 27/06/2021 - 18:55

  +3

  I am nearing 40

  But you were 32 in 2019?

  even though I don't have, and will never have, any children

  Was that because being a teacher turned you off them?

  Has anyone done a graduate program as a mature aged applicant?

  Yes

  Is having other industry experience valuable, I've heard it is

  To be honest, beyond it being a talking point, unless you were a lawyer or doctor no one will give you any credit for it. Kinda sucks. The value in it comes for you and helping getting you to the starting line of your grad role. It will not count for anything in a managers eyes except for the fact that they'll expect more from you because you aren't fresh out of uni.

  • 

    Lucy1 on 27/06/2021 - 19:27

    I'm heading towards 40. I'm not giving specific details as I don't want to identify myself, hence very vague descriptions of what I do and who I am. I'm moving into fintech as a mature student, that's all that matters.

    Shame to hear that my previous experience doesn't count for anything. Did you feel that you could accelerate your career faster because the managers saw you as more mature? How did you manage with starting over again?

    • 

      pharkurnell on 27/06/2021 - 20:19

      theres 25,000,000 odd people in AU… fairly hard to guess who you are.

      • 

        Lucy1 on 27/06/2021 - 20:32

        doesn't seem to be many females in fintech (at least not where I interned), so I'd rather not risk it.

    • 

      serpserpserp on 27/06/2021 - 21:59

      +1

      Shame to hear that my previous experience doesn't count for anything

      Not exactly what I said. I said it doesn't count in the managers eyes. They'll promote based off of performance and fit for the culture/business. So all you have to do is go in there and knock their socks off. Maybe if you were up for promotion over a 25 year old kid they might go with you if you display more maturity, etc. But ultimately it will come down to your presence as a person, how you deal with the stakeholders in your job and really, you owning your current role and them seeing your potential.

      • 

        Lucy1 on 27/06/2021 - 22:10

        So performance is more important than experience? I'm hoping that I can improve my performance to make up for the lack of industry experience, put my hand, take on extra tasks etc. Though I've previously worked at the company I am going back to, and I saw quite a few people who had 10-20 years experience and had never progressed despite being great at their job. I guess a lot of people may not be looking to advance, I don't know.

        Also how much value is there to having a big company on your cv? I'm going to one of top fintech companies, in part, because I think it will open doors for me in the future.

        • 

          serpserpserp on 27/06/2021 - 22:14

          @Lucy1:

          I saw quite a few people who had 10-20 years experience and had never progressed despite being great at their job.

          Everyone's journey and goals in life are different. Some people are great at their job but only put 60% energy into it because they have other things going on in their lives.

        • 

          greatlamp on 28/06/2021 - 13:02

          @Lucy1:

          I saw quite a few people who had 10-20 years experience and had never progressed despite being great at their job

          They are doing something wrong, it just isn't obvious. As the stereotype goes, they don't extend themselves outside their role, and all their years of experience is used to find 100 reasons why every new idea will fail, but never to help a new idea succeed.

          The other option is that they are being discriminated against, or they have a bad attitude/unprofessional but they do their current tasks well. Alternatively the industry has a glass ceiling, and there is no reward for experience - many roles fall into this category, for example in HR, and healthcare.

          Consider what they actually do, is it a revenue centre or a cost centre for the business? Back office /cost centre roles are usually dead end, management of these teams does not require knowledge of the work, and technical experts are not promoted to management

• 

  Keplaffintech on 27/06/2021 - 18:57

  As a manager in tech, I'd encourage you to express interest in leadership roles as soon as you can. This would help your manager to set you up on the right path, with training, opportunities, feedback etc. No such thing as being too ambitious.

  • 

    Lucy1 on 27/06/2021 - 19:30

    Thanks I will make sure to do that.

    • 

      Icecold5000 on 29/06/2021 - 12:29

      What value are you actually adding that makes you think you deserve a leadership role?

      • 

        Lucy1 on 04/07/2021 - 19:03

        Deserve is a strong word. No one deserves anything in life (besides there are lot of people in management who do not deserve to be there). Deserve does not figure into it.

• 

  kerfuffle on 27/06/2021 - 19:36

  +2

  Because of course OP also posted on Whirlpool as well where they've already gotten tons of advice about their career

  • 

    serpserpserp on 27/06/2021 - 22:00

    Jobs forum been dead for a very long time on ol' WP.

    • 

      SF3 on 27/06/2021 - 22:54

      Ozb is the new WP?

  • 

    morse on 28/06/2021 - 05:24

    There's only one reply to the WP post that I can see.

    • 

      kerfuffle on 28/06/2021 - 05:27

      Knock yourself out; all virtually identical

      • 

        morse on 28/06/2021 - 05:37

        +1

        I guess it's important to OP… a lot of advice does look the same overtime, so if it was me I would probably have stopped asking. To be fair, it seems to be working since OP got the grad role.

        • 

          SF3 on 29/06/2021 - 07:52

          @morse: hmmm… the popular saying "the definition of insanity is when…."

• 

  TheBird on 27/06/2021 - 20:46

  +1

  Grats on the new opportunity.

  Most of your questions depend on the person:

  I don't want to seem too ambitious but I am nearing 40 so am probably not wanting to waste a lot of time waiting around for opportunities to come to me.

  It's really a people thing. Some appreciate ambitious people, others don't. Some are threatened, some appreciate it.

  Is is awkward working with people much younger than you?

  It can be. For a lot of my early working life, I was almost always the baby of the team, though there was a time when I was put on a team where I swear the leader was thirteen, maybe fourteen. Somehow, he was super qualified, but obviously a little inexperienced people wise. It was wierd.

  Is having other industry experience valuable, I've heard it is, but I'm not sure how if companies don't seem to care about the skills you developed in your previous non-technical career.

  Some do, some don't. It depends on the people.

  Will telling people that help me avoid being put on that track?

  For the most part, they won't care. For some, it will help you and others, it will hinder you.

  can you apply for jobs if you don't have the required experience?

  There's literally no law that prevents this.

  Is it easier to get promoted internally as they already know you? Or is job hopping usually a better way of finding new opportunities?

  This is one of those, it depends questions. Some places, will value employees where others won't. You'll need to know what kind of place you're at.

• 

  charzy on 28/06/2021 - 23:37

  Ex-pharmacist turned developer here. Also in my mid-30s.
  1. By leadership roles I guess you mean Team lead/engineering manager etc? if so leadership roles usually required the engineer to be of senior level in most structured fintech companies (established companies, more than 100-1000 employees etc).

  2.Graduate programs are usually offered at established companies. I've known of a few rare cases with mature interns/graduates; they are usually as outliers because they excel/are focussed. Personally I started off as a intern/junior at a startup and worked my way up over the years.

  1. No. This ultimately depends on company culture but the two biggest companies I've worked at do nothing of this nature.

  2. Those are guidelines that noone really follows; there's memes floating around asking for junior frontend developers with 5 years of professional HTML/JS/(insert your JS framework).
     If you fulfill the requirements and are competent, you should have no issues in getting the role unless there is someone else more competent.

  • 

    Lucy1 on 29/06/2021 - 06:48

    Thanks,

    Can I ask at what age you moved into tech? How did you progress your career so quickly?

    Also I am thinking of rejecting the offer because I feel pretty uncomfortable about doing a graduate program with people in their early 20s. Would it be crazy to reject a 120k package in favor of a start-up which wouldn't make me do such a program, but would obviously pay less.

    Also do startups offer more opportunity to take on leadership? Nearly everyone in the engineering team has like 20 or so years experience, so I don't think I can compete with them.

    • 

      charzy on 29/06/2021 - 10:20

      Can I ask at what age you moved into tech? How did you progress your career so quickly?

      At 29. Progressed by continuous learning and taking on more responsibility. Being able to communicate effectively is a big bonus; this is where mature juniors shine.

      Also I am thinking of rejecting the offer because I feel pretty uncomfortable about doing a graduate program with people in their early 20s.

      Sounds like a case of imposter syndrome. I suffered from this greatly when I started working at one of Aus' top tech companies. It gets better with time and as you celebrate your wins.
      https://www.ted.com/talks/mike_cannon_brookes_how_you_can_us…

      Also if you are indeed getting 120k package as an intern/graduate I'd go through with it. As reference my first job was $23.50/hour casual, then 60k after a year. I only started my first 120k+ job after 2-3 years and I'm also in the Sydney market. The package they offered you probably shows you are indeed an outlier and they value you greatly.

      Also do startups offer more opportunity to take on leadership?

      I'm assuming this is in the context of tech leadership. From experience, startups want leadership with more experience/competence as they have less money/less resources for training to play with hiring than say an established company where there are existing leaders that can train you up.
      However there are scenarios where startups may hire you one of their early engineers, and if funding permits over time may hire others with the pretense you will be managing/overlooking them and hence a management role from that perspective.

      To be honest as an engineer if I found out my manager went from Uni -> Intern -> management in the space of 1-2 years, I'm not sure how I'd feel about that. If an employee you were managing asked for your help and you weren't able to offer that due to lack of experience or exposure, that would not be a good sign.

      Saying that the time frame to move into a management position I've seen is roughly 3-5 years of experience with the minimum requirement being at a senior level.