Should P Platers Have Unrestricted Speed Limit

Bargain4Days on 28/06/2021 - 20:06
Last edited 28/06/2021 - 20:11

Hello, was on my Red P's merging on the Hume Motorway from a a speed of 80km/h, gunning it on to 110km/h to merge (posted limited), merged in the right lane and started to cruise at 109km/h, when I got pulled over by highway patrol, he booked me for excess speed of 10km/h no greater than 20km/h. I was aware of my speed, and know I was speeding (my p1 limits anyways). Which got me thinking, should Red Ps be able to do the posted speed limit on motorways? Type in what you think below.

State is NSW, licence is also NSW

Poll Options

  • 79
    'Yes'
  • 170
    'No'
Automotive

Comments

  • domo653q on 28/06/2021 - 20:08
    +3

    Depends of which state your are in.

  • bobbified on 28/06/2021 - 20:13
    +17

    That lower speed limit has been a stupid rule that NSW has kept for some reason. The speed differential is a known danger for everyone on the highways.

    • pegaxs on 28/06/2021 - 22:21
      -2

      It’s only 10km/h under in 110km/h zones and the car should have a big red warning “P” on it to indicate that it is travelling slower than the maximum speed limit… “known danger” my arse…

      • Bargain4Days on 28/06/2021 - 22:36
        +1

        Red Ps are limited to 90km/h, Green are 100km/h

        • pegaxs on 29/06/2021 - 11:07

          Well, didn't I make a dumb.

          Most of the 100km/h roads around here, the red "P" drivers drive at the signposted limit. I just came to the conclusion that 100 was their max speed because on the expressway, they still do 100km/h.

          Well, I'll just add speeding red "P" platers to my list of people that piss me off on the road.

      • bobbified on 29/06/2021 - 07:59
        +4

        It’s only 10km/h under in 110km/h zones

        Red Ps are limited to 90km/h, therefore creating a 20km/h speed difference on the motorway that's signposted at 110km/h. It's funny because in NSW, they force new drivers to drive at 20km/h less than everyone else. On the other side of the country in WA, they have the opposite rule that specifies that you must travel no slower than 20km/h below the limit (without reason). The WA government at least recognises the dangers in drivers acting as "rolling road blocks".

        the car should have a big red warning “P” on it to indicate that it is travelling slower than the maximum speed limit

        Drivers have rear-enders because they can't seem to be able to see the entire rear of a car or truck that's right in front of them - what hope do they have of noticing that little red P plate?

  • spackbace on 28/06/2021 - 20:13
    +13

    I was aware of my speed, and know I was speeding

    You're gonna go far, kid

    • Bargain4Days on 28/06/2021 - 20:14

      Maybe I am to young or live under a rock (or both) I dont understand that reference lol :)

  • kerfuffle on 28/06/2021 - 20:17

    Why were you driving in the right lane on the motorway?

    • Bargain4Days on 28/06/2021 - 20:18

      Was overtaking a hilux towing a boat doing 80km/h.

      • kerfuffle on 28/06/2021 - 20:19
        +1

        The Hume Motorway has three or four lanes no? There was no need for you to be in the right lane, especially since as you pointed out, you're speed limited.

        • Bargain4Days on 28/06/2021 - 20:22
          -1

          Was 2 lane, then 3rd lane was added, was on the furthest lane to the right at the time, I was merging on Hume Motorway from Narrellan Rd (Campbelltown), was dangerous to constantly weave in and out of lanes, so was cruising on the right lane

          • jaejae69 on 28/06/2021 - 20:40
            +7

            @Bargain4Days: “Keep left unless overtaking” is not a suggestion. It is an actual law you can be booked under. Under no circumstance should you be “cruising” in the right lane when limits are over 80kmph

            • Bargain4Days on 28/06/2021 - 20:43
              +2

              @jaejae69: Yes you are right, but there was trucks and semi trailers doing below 90km/h on both left and middle lane, so I was overtaking traffic.

              • Ughhh on 28/06/2021 - 22:21

                @Bargain4Days: How long did you take to overtake the next car?

                • Bargain4Days on 28/06/2021 - 22:22

                  @Ughhh: Only 5 seconds when I speed up to overtake, but was constantly ducking and weaving to skip pass slower vehicles

                  • kerfuffle on 28/06/2021 - 22:30

                    @Bargain4Days:

                    was constantly ducking and weaving to skip pass slower vehicles

                    No wonder cops pulled you over. Was it an undercover car?

                    Source: have been pulled over for doing the same thing but unlike you, I have my full licence and have accrued zero demerits.

                    • Bargain4Days on 28/06/2021 - 22:31

                      @kerfuffle: It was a hwp motorbike, he was on the breakdown lane with his radar gun on right lane.

                  • brad1-8tsi on 29/06/2021 - 12:16
                    +4

                    @Bargain4Days: I commuted that route for 10 years. Sometimes you just have to chill a bit and let it happen rather than try and maintain the speed limit.

                    You are on Red Ps for a reason, one of those reasons is to learn patience.

              • mjwills on 29/06/2021 - 09:46
                +1

                @Bargain4Days:

                Yes you are right, but there was trucks and semi trailers doing below 90km/h on both left and middle lane, so I was overtaking traffic.

                In that case, why does allowing you to drive at the full speed limit solve anything?

                The (poor) argument being made here by most people is that slower vehicles are the risk. But your very answers here prove you aren't the slow vehicle. The machines you are overtaking are. So letting you (the person who knowingly drives 20 over the limit, but definitely wouldn't do that if the limit was higher I'm sure!) drive faster solves nothing at all.

                Leave the limit as is for P platers. The rules were changed for a reason. And you should learn to drive properly, in the correct lane, rather than hope that the universe bends to your will. :)

                • BigBirdy on 29/06/2021 - 12:49
                  +1

                  @mjwills: The rules are dangerous on single lane hwys, where you end up with b double trucks closing-in and overtaking P platers. You're putting inexperienced drivers in dangerous situations

                  • mjwills on 29/06/2021 - 16:28

                    @BigBirdy: Everything is tradeoffs. Is that a risk? Yes. Is letting young people who lack experience drive full speed? Yes.

                    Will my mind be changed by someone who disregards road rules ("cruising on the right lane") and knowingly speeds? No, no it won't.

                • Bargain4Days on 29/06/2021 - 18:21

                  @mjwills: Because if I can drive at 110km/h I can stay on cruising and change lanes when necessary, as of now at 90km/h, I am forcing other traffic to needlessly change lanes. I am constantly getting tailgated by trucks and utes forcing them to overtake me, pushing lanes right.

                  • mjwills on 29/06/2021 - 20:07
                    +1

                    @Bargain4Days:

                    I am constantly getting tailgated by trucks and utes forcing them to overtake me, pushing lanes right.

                    Yes, I understand how the road rules work. The tailgating is a downside of the status quo, yes.

                    The fact is - you are a P plater. You aren't an experienced driver. The reduced speed limit is an attempt to manage that risk. Does managing that risk introduce other risks? Yes, it does. But, on balance, a reduced speed limit is a reasonable approach for P platers since the risk profile in most driving situations is lower at lower speeds. That doesn't mean the risk is universally lower. But, on balance, a lower speed is a reasonable approach given a P plater's lack of driving experience.

  • brendanm on 28/06/2021 - 20:18
    +21

    Yes, they should have the same speed limit. Speed differential is dangerous.

    • apsilon on 28/06/2021 - 20:54
      +1

      There's always going to be vehicles doing under the speed limit. As long as people keep left and focus on driving it shouldn't be an issue.

      • [Deactivated] on 28/06/2021 - 21:34
        -4

        There shouldn't be. The punishment for going under the speed limit should be as harsh as for going over it.

        • apsilon on 29/06/2021 - 07:34
          +2

          Trucks are speed limited to 100 so in a 110 zone there's one immediate and obvious example. People towing will also usually sit a little under for economy and safety reasons so there's another. Then there's the fact that the speed limit is the upper limit, not a requirement for the minimum acceptable. I do agree you shouldn't have people doing 60 in a 110 zone etc but there are valid reasons to some traffic moving below the limit.

  • Mechz on 28/06/2021 - 20:18

    I remember when I had my Ps, I definitely drove like there were no speed limits. Didn't have to put those stupid signs on your car either.

    • Bargain4Days on 28/06/2021 - 20:19
      -2

      Guessing this was a while go haha, seems like its better if I drive normally and take the p plates off, having p plates on makes me a magnet.

      • [Deactivated] on 28/06/2021 - 21:36
        +2

        You should never take those plates off until you are allowed to do so. You need to signify to other drivers that you are inexperienced. You don't learn how to drive properly for years after you get off your Ps. P platers tend to have a very poor understanding of car body language, and often drive dangerously.

  • FlipCrank on 28/06/2021 - 20:19
    +3

    What's the reason for this rule anyway? You may as well prohibit these drivers from the freeway if you can't trust them to drive 20kph more on the widest and possibly safest roads.

    • mjwills on 29/06/2021 - 16:29

      I am going to take a wild stab and guess it is because they are young and experienced.

  • Euphemistic on 28/06/2021 - 20:34
    -1

    Keep the limit. Helps other drivers be more aware of obstacles.

    • Bargain4Days on 28/06/2021 - 20:39

      Curious what you mean by that, travel the same speed as other traffic, or stick to p1 limit?

      • Euphemistic on 29/06/2021 - 05:40
        +2

        Being a bit facetious. This countries drivers are all so obsessed with driving at the listed limit they can’t cope when slower drivers are around.

        On the motorways trucks have a lower limit. We can cope with that. What’s wrong with driving to expect a p plater around and being prepared to slow down for a few seconds.

        “BuT iT hoLdZ Up tHE TrAfFiC”. So do roadworks, trucks, learners, clapped out old vans etc just learnt o deal with it.

        P platers don’t have the necessary reaction times and driving experience to be able to drive faster IMO.

        • bobbified on 29/06/2021 - 09:43
          +1

          On the motorways trucks have a lower limit. We can cope with that. What’s wrong with driving to expect a p plater around and being prepared to slow down for a few seconds.

          We can cope with the trucks with a lower limit in the left lane - cars are more nimble and they can overtake trucks relatively safely. But if you force a car to drive at a lower speed than even large trucks, it forces the large trucks to maneuvre and overtake much more frequently than they already have to.

          At the worst, they should not force cars to have a limit lower than the trucks themselves.

          Also, I'm sure we've all experienced looking into the rear view mirror and seeing it filled by the huge grill of a tailgating truck. For inexperienced drivers, this could cause them to panic (which is never ideal).

  • SF3 on 28/06/2021 - 20:46

    You were caught in a 2001 Toyota Camry with oil leak?

    • Bargain4Days on 28/06/2021 - 20:50
      +1

      Yep, I know right, my boss laughed at me "That's a first, an Asian Camry driver that actually does the speed limit!"

  • hm on 28/06/2021 - 21:31

    You got caught speeding, end of story

  • [Deactivated] on 28/06/2021 - 21:38
    +2

    In Vic there is no speed restrictions for P platers, which is sensible. But I do think that cops should enforce rules on P platers strictly. I often see P platers speeding and diving in and out of traffic, despite generally having poor vehicle control, and everyday I see p platers on the freeway, texting, at 100kmh. That is crazy. They also think it's a game to hide their P plates or put them sideways so it looks like a tongue is sticking out.

    • Euphemistic on 29/06/2021 - 05:43

      I often see P platers speeding and diving in and out of traffic, despite generally having poor vehicle control, and everyday I see p platers on the freeway, texting, at 100kmh. That is crazy.

      That’s sounds like a good reason to keep their limit lower. Makes it easier to enforce because all the cops need to do it look at their radar gun.

      • [Deactivated] on 29/06/2021 - 17:57

        Speed differential is a safety problem.

        • Euphemistic on 29/06/2021 - 18:25

          Not all vehicles can travel at motorway speeds. We should lower the limit to suit them so there is no differential? Or just ban everything that isn’t as fast as your tesla?

          • [Deactivated] on 29/06/2021 - 18:48

            @Euphemistic: If a vehicle can't travel at motorway speeds, it shouldn't be on the motorway. Pretty simple.

    • User210686 on 29/06/2021 - 08:13

      Same in QLD, no speed restrictions for Ps and no need to display Ps on the outside of the vehicle either.

  • Cheeper on 28/06/2021 - 22:06

    "Exceed speed over 10 km/h (learner or provisional licence) $280 Points 4"
    Zero points left now?

    • Bargain4Days on 28/06/2021 - 22:20

      Until i get the fine in the lettor box

      • Cheeper on 28/06/2021 - 22:26

        Even now if you get another fine it will mean licence loss for a minimum of 3 months. Time to drive like a monk LOL.

        • Bargain4Days on 28/06/2021 - 22:31

          2 wrongs dont make right, something like that lol, but yeah kept my speed down to 90, and its bloody nerve wrecking when a truck or a semi trailer tailgates you or overtakes you.

          • Cheeper on 28/06/2021 - 22:37
            +2

            @Bargain4Days: That will happen when you get your full licence also.
            You are only starting to learn the perils of being a motorist. It's all about survival. Expect them to do the silliest thing possible…. they rarely disappoint.

  • mskeggs on 28/06/2021 - 22:19
    +9

    I’m undecided about the speed limit, but the idea you ignored it to over take almost 20km/h over provides a pretty compelling argument that inexperienced drivers don’t have great judgement.

    When I started driving I naively thought if I sped I would be OK because i had great reactions and control. I didn’t consider how terrible all the other road users are at driving. Ask a motorcyclist if they think most drivers are competent.

    • pegaxs on 28/06/2021 - 22:26
      +1

      As a motorcyclist and a truck driver, car drivers are the worst and probably the least competent. (Not that a lot of motorcyclists or truck drivers are much better)

    • Bargain4Days on 28/06/2021 - 22:28

      Yes, I do agree with some points, keep in mind most of the traffic was doing 110 with a few exceptions, I obviously indicate when changing lanes, leave a gap ahead of me, ensure no one else merges into me. I dont quite agree with your last point. I leave a much bigger gap when theres a motorcyclist ahead, and give way when they merge, but I often find they take more risk when merging or changing lanes, and constantly speed up behind me against my blind spot to reappear at the front overtaking me. Obviously my lack of experience means I dont have a wide arrange of data to relate to.

      • kerfuffle on 28/06/2021 - 22:32
        +3

        keep in mind most of the traffic was doing 110

        Just because most are doesn't mean you do it too, especially if you have conditions attached.

        • Bargain4Days on 28/06/2021 - 22:32
          +1

          Yes, have learnt my lesson, and will continue to stick to the limit till i get my unrestricted licence

      • Cheeper on 28/06/2021 - 22:34

        MC riders are suicidal. Rarely they do the limit and take far too many risks and demand that everyone watch out for them while they are doing it. The only bigger pest on the road are cyclists.
        BTW .. i'm a long time cyclist that knows public roads and traffic are to be avoided and an ex mc rider that survived.

      • SnoozeAndLose on 28/06/2021 - 23:36

        Most of us go through the red and green P's, it sucks with lots of restriction but just be patient for 2.5 years, you can drive full speed for the rest of your 40 - 50 years.

    • bobbified on 29/06/2021 - 08:03

      Ask a motorcyclist if they think most drivers are competent.

      Yes, they are… not! All my brown pants experiences have been thanks to car drivers.

  • MagicMushroom on 28/06/2021 - 22:23
    +1

    Yes or No, still need to follow what's being implemented. If you deliberately broke the rule, you shouldn't have the privilege to drive.

  • morse on 28/06/2021 - 22:38

    They should have the same speed limits as other drivers. Otherwise it is unsafe for them to drive on freeways etc.

    • SnoozeAndLose on 28/06/2021 - 23:34

      so the truck should also go at full speed, not 100 right? there is a slow lane for this, so slow vehicle use the most left length

      • morse on 29/06/2021 - 02:49

        Not sure on this one. I’d propably ask a truckie to see how safe this is in their experience. There’s a difference in the vehicle type for trucks, whereas for p platers the different is driver experience and behaviour. In realty p platers don’t keep left. 110 isn’t super fast so if they actually stick to this they’ll have a chance to learn to merge and overtake slow vehicles properly. The focus should be on P platers sticking to the actual speed limit where they are driving - the people I’ve seen run into trouble are driving 20-40 km/hr over the speed limit for everyone, not some kid trying to safely navigate fast moving highway traffic.

  • Ghost47 on 28/06/2021 - 23:27

    There shouldn't be but you live in NSW.

  • USER DC on 28/06/2021 - 23:28
    -3

    Mate its a matter for the government, let them decide it.

    • Emerald Owl on 28/06/2021 - 23:56

      And who chooses the government?

      • USER DC on 28/06/2021 - 23:57
        +2

        Those who dont draw random d*cks in their election ballot papers (instead of numbering in order)

        • Emerald Owl on 29/06/2021 - 00:58

          I think More people write political messages such as ‘stop overdevelopment’ or ‘increase Newstart’ than draw dicks. It’s a shame they don’t vote.

          • kerfuffle on 29/06/2021 - 06:36
            +1

            @Emerald Owl: Nope. Definitely more dicks than messages. I remember seeing a vote for Batman too.

            Source: worked numerous elections at all three government levels.

    • morse on 29/06/2021 - 03:04

      Democracy doesn’t end at the ballot box. Participatory democracy allows us to comment on policy and legislation, which can change based on feedback from the public. Absolutely SMEs and evidence should and does inform policy, but if citizens disengage and don’t comment on policy it’s not a true democracy. As a public servant with experience in policy development I can assure you that SMEs don’t always get it right and often policy is driven by public (or individual) opinion over evidence and sound reasoning for better or worse.

  • Piratarzt on 29/06/2021 - 08:15
    -2

    Should a probationary pilot start to fly the A380? No. That's the common sense answer.

    Is there a law that stipulates a speed limit for your license? Yes.
    Is there a reasoned argument for that speed limit? Yes.
    Do you have a counter-argument? No.
    Is there a reasonable counter-argument? No.

    • Bargain4Days on 29/06/2021 - 09:16

      I mean, that is a bit excessive comparing the 2, not really an apples to apples comparison

  • archiexyz on 29/06/2021 - 08:42
    +1

    As an ACT driver I could do the posted limit in NSW on my Ps. I could also do an extra course after 9 months to not display my p-plates (and an extra demerit allowance), which I did for peace of mind so that I wouldn't get pulled over mistaken for a NSW P-player when traveling.
    ACT has since tightened their rules with curfews and passenger restrictions for P-platers, but lower speed limits for new drivers was one they looked at and decided NOT to implement.

  • Duckie2hh on 29/06/2021 - 08:51

    P Platers should be banned from owning a Holden Commodore or Ford Falcon.

  • Euphemistic on 29/06/2021 - 08:52
    +5

    I don’t know why we can’t have consistent rules acrosss the country.

    • Bargain4Days on 29/06/2021 - 09:16

      Nation wide laws sounds like a good idea, that gets my vote!

  • BigBirdy on 29/06/2021 - 08:53

    On a multi-lane Hwy like the Hume, the lower speed limit creates a hazard, but on single-lane Hwy like the Newell, it is seriously dangerous. This seems to be a NSW issue. Vic had a lower limit a long time ago, but fixed it

  • OzHunterNSW on 29/06/2021 - 10:01
    -1

    Where why… how can you even think this.
    Why do you think they display P plates? Have you any idea?

  • KRR on 29/06/2021 - 11:14
    +1

    In my opinion there shouldn’t be a speed limit based on your license, maybe on your Ls and thats it. Its probably more unsafe to be limited to 90 in a 110 zone, I think its just a pointless rule which doesn’t actually help towards anything.
    All my mates on Ps from interstate could do the posted limit in NSW as many other states do not have a speed limit based on your license

    From what I see barely anyone even follows the 90km/h limit on their Ps from what I have seen driving on the highways

  • bunkymag on 29/06/2021 - 13:07

    Aus is a nanny state unfortunately mate, this stuff included. When you get to go driving in other countries eventually you’ll see most places manage more realistically.. til then, patience..

  • SlartiBartFozz on 29/06/2021 - 13:22

    I agree with the principle that P-platers should have that restriction, but in practice there is very little police can do to enforce that rule.
    There are different rules in some states.

  • MontyMacaw on 29/06/2021 - 14:40

    Having a P plate is like having a target on your forehead. You are assumed to be you dumb and full of cum. This type of person can be any age and be either a P player or not. The whole concept of P platers works against them in this manner as they assimilate into the rest of the driver population. They should be able to travel unhindered just like every other driver but perhaps some realistic limits on the type of vehicle they are allowed to drive. Driving at a speed that is different to the rest of the vehicles on the road is a disruption to the free flowing concept of getting everybody to their destination in the most efficient and courteous way possible. P platers cop abuse just like little old ladies driving at half the speed limit in the wrong lane but it extends into the media where news reports start off with , “A P plater today was involved in…..”. This sets them up as stupid. There needs to be support for new drivers and not criticism and abuse. I know if I see an L plater I make sure I give them every opportunity to manoeuvre in a safe and timely manner because I was once that guy. So we’re YOU.

    • HeWhoKnows on 29/06/2021 - 18:30
      +2

      Mate. The only effective speed limit on P-Platers is traveling on a freeway/motorway when the limit over 80-kph.
      And so in doing so you should be in the left hand lane.
      Not in the right hand lane as our irresponsible "young-gun" P-Plater poster was.
      Hence a well deserved fine
      OP said it himself - he was "gunning" it.
      This is nothing but a display of immaturity and lack of social responsibility as is OP's post

      All the evidence says that speed kills and more so for inexperienced P-Platers.

  • BargainWizard on 29/06/2021 - 18:02
    +1

    if its gonna make you break the speed limit to overtake just turn up the sub doof doof doof and cruise along behind the slower vehicles theres no rush to get anywhere 5 minutes earlier

  • HeWhoKnows on 29/06/2021 - 18:24

    The results of this survey simply reflect the young age of the visitors to this site.

    I have seen enough evidence to confirm that Red P-Platers should be restricted not just in speed but also in number of passengers and in the power to the vehicle they can drive.

    Furthermore I would suggest such restrictions should be applied to green P-Platers but to a lesser extent.

    Its unsurprising that nearly very idiot-driver you see on the road is a red or green p-plater

    Experience is everything when it comes to driving.
    Insurance companies are well aware of this which is why premiums for young drivers are the highest.
    And of course insurance premiums become lower as you get older

    So you cannot argue this point and this post is useless in achieving anything other than a typical display of P-Plater ignorance

    Regardless of the posters issues and the results of this vote you cannot argue with the facts which insurance companies rely on so much.

    Unfortunately you don't realize this until you are older and wiser.

  • petry on 29/06/2021 - 18:40

    as long as they unlimited damages for death, injury's and damage caused no worries.

    These would be additional to all insurance, and for life.

    • Bargain4Days on 29/06/2021 - 18:45

      So same as unrestricted drivers?

  • Bargain4Days on 29/06/2021 - 19:01

    Also curious, what does an experience driver mean to you?

    Number of Hours Driven,
    Distance Travelled,
    Average Speed
    Age/Profession
    Weather/ Type of Road
    Car Driven,
    Etc.

    • kerfuffle on 29/06/2021 - 19:13
      +2

      One that knows the past tense of experience.

      Definitely the number of hours driven. Why do you think they ask you to do 120 hours before you got your Red Ps? Car doesn’t matter; that’s why you always hear of people crashing their Lamborghini or Porsche. Or in Cabramatta, their Toyota Corolla or Camry. The fact that you think it has something to do with some of the factors you’ve listed demonstrates your youth and inexperience.

      • Bargain4Days on 29/06/2021 - 20:20

        I did add in number of hours driven as my #1, was asking other drivers what factors they considered to be essential.

    • Ughhh on 29/06/2021 - 21:36
      +2

      When you make predictions about other drivers (behaviour/action) and you're getting them right- this takes time and active observation.

    • Euphemistic on 29/06/2021 - 21:55
      +2

      Time behind the wheel is your best teacher. More time to observe and learn to avoid other idiots.

      After that, learning to control different vehicles in different circumstances. Driving many different cars in all conditions including slippery, emergency, high speed, off road etc. Finding where the limits are of a vehicle and knowing how to not overstep that limit and also knowing what to do when things go wrong.

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