Curious to hear public sentiment about this one.
Individuals seeking tax refunds. Businesses seeking financials for banks or government support. Surely we’re essential to people’s financial health?
As an accountant I Find it bizarre I can strap on a tool belt and work but can’t help clients desperate for help due to stay at home orders…
You guys need to carefully look at what you are doing then.
I have not met my accountant in person for over five years for my business. All our documentation is exchanged over email; all the banks we have dealt with have accepted electronic signatures. Our ledger is online through Xero; so he can look at it whenever he wants.
They also do my personal tax returns and again, I just email over the information required and talk on the phone when some clarifications are needed.
@bemybubble: Maybe instead of looking at it that way, look at how you can educate your clients and make their lives easier through digitisation.
@Mechz: We went paperless in 2015 and have been doing our best to do so. However it’s simply not possible to convert everyone
@bemybubble: Who doesn't have a smart phone with a camera these days? Also, are these clients even profitable compared to the others living in this century?
@Mechz: I would think that the clients that are least familiar with technology would be the most profitable.
@Mechz: Perhaps you don't have old-school family and friends who rely on using the old ways and have no interest in updating? There are business owners like that, too. We had plenty of them as customers and very few want to be educated because they don't find it easier.
@eyeballz2770: Well it's COVID, if they can't do simple education to digitalised, maybe they shouldn't be in business
@ln28909: The drastic changes made in a year seldom improve on the methods people have developed over millennia.
Sometimes they're better, but we'll never be sure in our lifetime and you can't really insult someone for being averse to change.
@eyeballz2770: My parents showed little interest in digitising their business but they still rarely met their accountant.
They just sent him a parcel with all the relevant paperwork at the end of the financial year…
Your website appears to show your workers in multiple locations around the country. It encourages potential customers to contact you online.
If your staff/accountants cannot find a way to be productive online or working from home, I think the problem is with them.
Was there anything that was critical to undertake or complete during that week that couldn't be completed, or deferred with no impact?
Couriers and Aust Post are still operating. Original docs can be sent that way.
Your website appears to show your workers in multiple locations around the country.
That website is a different business with different clientele.
The clients I’m talking about will never use that site
@GG57: Disclosure of private addresses due to not having PO Boxes nearby. Plus not having the equipment to bulk scan with OCR. Tried…
@bemybubble: Ok. More and more hurdles.
So which state are you in (to determine which lockdown rules apply to you)?
@bemybubble: Ah, some clarity.
So, what did you and these '…clients desperate for help…' do during the previous multiple Victorian lockdowns of varying durations, that absolutely must be done in the current 3-business-day lockdown?
@bemybubble: "The Victorian Government will provide more than $200 million in assistance to businesses affected by the current lockdown, including automatic payments to some 86,000 businesses that were already registered during the last lockdown.
"If you got a grant last time, you'll get a grant this time," Premier Daniel Andrews says.
The Premier expects those automated payments will be made almost certainly before the end of this lockdown or early next week."
Or do you mean the clients are seeking finance from their bankers?
@bemybubble: Hopefully those businesses will still be able to pay your fees, if they are so financially crippled now.
@GG57: We did a lot of probono work over the course of covid. But we all gotta eat. Fortunately our clientele always find a way to pay our bills
@bemybubble: So many reasons not to.
Was the same for my company until forced to. Suddenly all was possible
You’d think so.
Your right..
My neighbours a tradie, and tried bringing the 2 storey house they are building home with him to continue working after he strapped on his toolbelt.. but he couldnt get it through the front door
No ones disputing that their work can’t be done unless on site. Just asking the question about ‘essential’
We tried for a week and productivity was virtually non existent. Clients struggled to supply data digitally, banks wanting original documentation. Unfortunately not so
Sounds like a weakness in your system and processes.
I'm an accountant. You can work from home it makes no difference.
im based in melb and my accountant is in sydney :)
Looks like your company owner/director have learnt nothing from the 1st lockdown. Tell them to invest that $10k penalty (they about to receive) on a digital renovation.
Not essential. Do it digitally or tell your clients they have to wait until after lockdown if they refuse.
Their unwillingness to adapt to the current circumstances is neither your companies problem or societies problem.
Get a grip on reality !
An accountant is an essential worker just as much as Bunnings worker is.
Don't worry OP in NSW you can be essential no problems , no matter what you do .
That’s the other extreme. Even I find that bizarre
If Gucci store and LV are essential….I am sure an accountant can squeeze in the rules. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-16/sydney-covid-lockdown…
Vic defined essential services properly in their most recent lockdown, and only allowed supermarkets, pharmacy or similar to remain open.
That’s because Dan Andrews has a brain unlike Gladys.
Actually my prediction is the pressure will be huge on Glady after Vic leaves lockdown with what she should have done from the start stage 4 restrictions .
If she doesn't go to stage 4 restrictions NSW will stay in lock down for mths .
Most health professionals outside of her health circle agree but somehow her health advice is different !
One day she will be held accountable .
One day she will be held accountable.
Accountable how, resign? Pfft! That's not accountability.
The only accountability should be criminal charges and that ain't gonna happen in 100s year.
Must have missed the press conference where “going to buy a LV bag” was one of the reasons to go out
if you have too much money maybe it is essential to spend them.
/s
and then they need to chat to an accountant to do the tax write off…
Wasn't the original going out to buy a puzzle?
Well it will depend whether cakes today in that shop are subject to sales tax or they're not, firstly, and they may have a sales tax on them. Let's assume that they don't have a sales tax on them and that birthday cake is going to be sales tax free, then of course, you wouldn't pay, it would be exempt, there would be no GST on it under our system. To give you an accurate answer I need to know exactly what type of cake to give a detailed answer
LV provided free shipping to return my items from repairs.
Yes an essential service, but not essential to do face to face. Yes it might be nicer/easier for some people face to face, but not essential.
In the NSW common sense approach
Thank god NSW uses common sense, otherwise I couldn't have done all my essential Gucci and Louis Vuitton shopping this week!
If people don't do their taxes, they face a fine. So service is essential
The service is essential, but doesn't mean 'face to face' meetings are essential, and are not one of 5 valid reasons to leave the house aka meeting your accountant.
Most decent accountants do everything remotely these days!
There is no definition to what essential is afterall.
OP is from VIC, and we have a list to make things nice and simple.
https://www.coronavirus.vic.gov.au/authorised-provider-and-a…
Some even say house inspection 300+km away because their mortgage pre-approval is expiring as essential reason.
And this is why we can't have nice things in VIC, because NSW keep 'bending' the rules.
Din't find like one, not even in sarcastic way.
Still in lockdown. Where's the common sense?
Individuals seeking tax refunds. Businesses seeking financials for banks or government support. Surely we’re essential to people’s financial health?
Individuals who must have face to face meeting with you for whatever reason, have no urgent need for tax return in my books, they can wait a week. Its also not a reason for your client to be leaving the house. aka visiting an accountant isn't one of the five reasons to leave your home.
Business seeking grants, well they are customers already, you should have all their details should you not? What will a face to face meeting provide that a phone call or video call can't provide?
As an accountant I Find it bizarre I can strap on a tool belt and work but can’t help clients desperate for help due to stay at home orders…
As an accountant, I find it bizarre you can't do you job from home or remotely by now.
I haven't seen my accounting in 4+ years. Way before covid everything was done remotely.
Essential Workers or Not?
Gladys says: Depending on each person.
Gladbags has no say over VIC….. Which is where the OP is from.
This guy is on fire! No sarcasm is allowed. Retreat!
They must be considered essential in NSW. Spoke to Services NSW yesterday and to claim the business support grant you need documents from your accountant to substantiate your percentage of income loss.
+++ this
But you're in VIC so rules might differ?
Not for fed support
@bemybubble: I thought the Fed Govt was intending to meet today with a view to remove red tape and streamline the process. Are the fed support rules even finalised yet?
Spoke to Services NSW yesterday and to claim the business support grant you need documents from your accountant to substantiate your percentage of income loss.
Shouldn't your accountant already have this information about YOUR business they have been doing the taxes for?
No one is saying accountants can't work, everyone is saying they can't MEET their clients face to face.
Surely your account can email them to you or even fax them if they must!
do it via zoom with your client. Look after your family as well. Safe for both sides.
The OzB community have spoken. Interesting reading people’s POVs on the topic
No one is saying accountants can't work, everyone is saying you can't MEET your clients face to face.
So work with them online, via phone via video calls, via fax or via email. Just not face to face ;)
For the ones that can you will.
For the ones that can’t get left behind.
Its a week. They'll be ok to wait.
Survival of the fittest.
Adapt or die.
blah blah
If these clients are not technically capable enough to use a computer, phone, fax, or snail-mail to communicate with you, they are almost exclusively in the group that is least affected by lockdowns, ie retirees, at home most days, and waiting a few extra days for a tax return or other accounting is going to have a minimal measurable impact, albeit they will be most likely to complain about it because they have too much spare time.
@SlartiBartFozz: OP is in country Vic. Reading between the lines his clients are likely older farmers.
It's your business, and possibly other people by the sound of it, that is on the line. You do what you have to do mate, no one on ozbargain is paying your, or your clients, bills.
I don’t understand your argument that some clients will struggle to access online service.
So what? They have the choice to wait until they can meet face to face again, or they can use other means. I’d also rather my accountant came and collected my paperwork, rather than scanning it, but it isn’t some insurmountable challenge.
I am extremely cognisant of accessibility issues and struggles that some elderly or non-technically proficient (or disabled) people have in using online services, but the issue is about public health. If they need to access the service, there are options available to them online, or they can wait.
If there is legitimately one or two people who desperately need urgent accounting services, but have no technical skills, and nobody available to help them, there are support services that assist people with technical challenges.
I think you need to stop looking at it from an accountants POV and put yourself in the clients shoes.
You’re business is struggling, you’ve got staff you are worried about, rent to pay, business struggles are also have an impact on your personal life. Government red tape is hard enough as it is to navigate for financial support (which is more often than not more effort than what it’s worth) and the one person you trust and confide into for all this financial (and sometimes non financial) is asking you to jump more hurdles?
I just think it’s fundamentally flawed to expect us to peddle financial support but not give us all that we need to help those who need it. That’s all I’m saying.
If there is someone who has been in such a position I’d be curious to hear their POV if they’re a member of this community.
So it is the pastoral care element of accountancy that you are struggling to provide remotely?
Ask your clients to provide you with their paperwork in hard copy, which you can collect, if it is not available electronically. Then have a good long chat with them over the phone.
It would suck a lot more if they are shut for weeks because accountants are spreading COVID around Melbourne as they go from one essential face to face meeting to another.
This is the thing. We’re not allowed to collect due to the restrictions (5km limit).
Pastoral care is a big element. Whilst talking on the phone is suffice to a degree, little things become big mountains to those who are already in hard times.
Don’t get me wrong - on the face of it, it does seem clear cut that we should be able to do what we do from home. But not all clients needs are that black and white…
@bemybubble: There are always postal or courier services for things that can't be delivered electronically.
@bemybubble: Send a courier. You've their address and they won't need to know yours. And, if all else fails, is letting your clients know where you live worse than the risk of spreading COVID and potentially extending the lockdown.
Everyone is suffering one way or another through this pandemic but we've all had to adapt.
P.S. & do you really want to be that person identified as the cause of the spread (just like the NSW removalists)? Think about the negative publicity on yourself and your business, even if you don't care about public health, before you answer that question.
@bemybubble: OP you sound like a person who are doing the services and pro bono work out of good intentions, however, I think it is important to also look at the bigger picture in terms of public health. I agree that often a lot of people in very difficult circumstances can get left behind, and admire that we should give our best to serve those in needs, but it sounds like such clients are needing more than an accountant, but social workers/assistance also. In the document perspective, if you can't travel outside the 5km, can the clients arrange social service needs for that document to be delivered to your 5km perimeter?
I'm just really curious of examples that can't be done virtually. Can you give me a specific example of something that simply cannot be done online?
It's a five day lockdown (currently). Tax returns aren't due until October are they? I think it is difficult to argue that it is essential.
We have a winner!
the answer was too easy
until 5 turns to 10 turns to 20 and this kicks in…
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/10748149/redir
You only need to engage the accountant by then. They'll be able to get you an extension until next year, probably further with a sob story.
By october if doing it personally, through an accountant is by next may. Plenty of time, and with the pandemic i doubt ATO would be super strict on the deadline
Don't worry guys Louis Vuitton is an essential business now
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-16/sydney-covid-lockdown…
maybe set up shop inside lv
Call yourself an essential worker. Delivering tax refunds is putting food on the table with negative gearing.
I was tempted to deliver pizzas as part of my work at one stage 😂
I find it bizarre that an accountant, of all occupations, thinks he’s an essential worker. When you get to that point, is anyone not essential? Tradies are a reasonable compromise, keeping water running, toilet flushing, lights and fridge on, etc., but in a really bad pandemic, even they would be given stay-at-home orders.
I find it bizarre that an accountant, of all occupations, thinks he’s an essential worker
Jobkeeper. Cash flow boost. Liquidations. Financial guidance. Just to name a few
It’s not an accountant that thinks he is an essential worker. It’s the situation and the needs of people that dictate the need of essential.
Up until March last year I never believed there was such thing as an accounting emergency. That all changed with this pandemic…
Is the main reason of such emergency due to the clients just don't have the means to reach you other than face to face? In those circumstances, are there social service or similar assistance available?
Despite all the comments to the contrary it seems the OP is convinced they are essential and won’t be swayed.
I wish I was as confident in my self importance
You can do your work from home, a tradie can't.