Curious to hear public sentiment about this one.
Individuals seeking tax refunds. Businesses seeking financials for banks or government support. Surely we’re essential to people’s financial health?
As an accountant I Find it bizarre I can strap on a tool belt and work but can’t help clients desperate for help due to stay at home orders…
Wow OP. It really is true… not all heroes wear capes
Let me break it down for YOU.
You started a thread asking if ppl thought accountants would be classed as essential workers
Numerous ppl responded saying they thought your work could be done electronically without face to face contact.
Since then you have chosen to spend your time arguing with those ppl trying to justify why you are in fact essential.
Clearly you believe you are essential. No one is apparently going to dissuade you from that belief
How about now you do us all a favour and “clock off” to spend time with your family like you want to
/thread
@parsimonious one: Thread ended here and was accepting of the consensus. You just kept pushing, I responded.
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/10748309/redir
You are not an essential worker by any stretch of imagination in the sense that a nurse or a supermarket teller or a truck driver is.
Quit whining and be glad you have a job that you could do from home.
So if you were on JobKeeper and really believe our job wasn’t important, perhaps we should have clocked off at 5 and spent time with the family as I would have preferred to have done.
If you're that kind of person, then maybe you should have.
There's been plenty of people who have gone above and beyond. Some are essential and what they do can't wait. Accounting, like many things, while important, it's only about money. There's plenty of people doing it hard financially. People are going to survive if they cannot see their accountant for weeks.
There are plenty of people doing it hard.
Don't understand why you can't help your clients. Accountants can work from home and interact electronically. A family member works in a large accounting firm and hasn't attended the office in 12 months.
But not crucial.
So, we gathered that the “need” to access accountants in person during lockdowns is only for certain type of clients who’d not able to access technology.
Under those circumstances, I would say, tech /welfare support being “enablers” should be more essential than accountants.
I would not make accountants essential during pandemic just to please those Clients who’d chosen not to set themselves up with necessary technology and processes to access their accountants services online, so they can wait till when it is safer to do so in person.
Pull the other one mate. Accountants can work from home and interact electronically, there is no reason you cannot use a combination of technology and post in the event original documents are required. Why would a face to face interaction be required in a pandemic?
Zoom + Share screen + Camera phone + Email.
BOOM, just digitally transform your business. Saved you calling the big 4.
Those of your clients who can't use a computer will need to wait another week, that's all.
Brick layering or carpentry can't be done on a computer, so there's really no comparison and your job isn't essential in that sense. Accounting can all be done from home.
It will be more than a week in NSW.
They are saying August 15th.
Interestingly New Zealand have us classified as essential.
https://www.rbnz.govt.nz/news/2020/03/covid19-level-4-essent…
Edit: incorrect as rightly pointed out below
Swing and a miss OP
https://www.rbnz.govt.nz/news/2020/03/covid19-level-4-essent…
That document doesn’t say that accountants are classified as essential.
It says that licensed insurance service providers are classified as essential as they support numerous other service providers (including accounting services)
It also specifically states that financial advice is non essential and should be done from home.
Hope you are better with numbers than you are with comprehension
Too right. puts down bottle of scotch
Looks like OP is desperately wanting to believe them to be "essential" like a doctor or a cop and went around searching for material on the internet to find that link. If only they had read it before posting it here though.
I think a birthday clown is more of an essential worker if it ever comes to that as they can't work remotely.
Am I the only one finding it hard to have compassion for business owners?
After watching their half assed efforts at implementing basic protocols to limit the spread of Covid-19 they now expect a government hand out but somehow find it too hard to send documents to their accountant.
It’s 2021 and there’s a pandemic going on. If you are running a business and don’t know how to use a smartphone, email or a mail forwarder/courier/postbox then maybe your customers and employees and society as a whole will be better off without your business existing.
I don't get how it's fair to point the finger at businesses? Don't the general public have common sense to protect themselves and others as well?
I think it’s fair because of the general complacency that I witnessed.
For example.. Very few hospitality venues actually checked to see if their customers signed in even thought that is a legal responsibility. Supermarket workers wearing chin masks. Tradies entering hardware stores obviously sick who say “I’ll never get a COVID-19 test because it means I get no money for two weeks if I test positive” without management asking them to leave the premises. Restaurants ignoring capacity limits and cramming customers together. Managers/Owners turning a blind eye to employees showing up sick despite the risk to their customers/coworkers.
As a member of the general public you are entering these places on the premise that they are abiding by the law. Many either didn’t read the laws or decided not to follow them and now have their hand out expecting tax payers to support their investments. In OPs case he’s complaining that it’s too hard for businesses to use couriers/internet/smartphones to get money for nothing.
It's not Business' job to test people for COVID up their nose. It's Police's job.
Although we are becoming a Dictatorship under COVID, so watch this space - maybe next week, it will be their job after all.
No wonder Businesses' are giving up and failing!
I have had the same accountant for 7 years and have only ever had email correspondence with them.
They do a great job every time and I never feel the need to physically visit them, its just a few emails with attachments, probably a total of 10 mins out of my day.
How would your clients even visit you without breaching covid restrictions?
Only five reasons to leave home
- You can leave home to get food and supplies
- Exercise for up to two hours no more than 5km from your home
- You can leave home for care or caregiving
- You can leave home for work or education if you can't do it from home
- You can leave home to get vaccinated
Which one does visiting your accountant fall under?
Exercise for up to two hours no more than 5km from your home
Interesting that Victoria is only 5km.
NSW is 10km.
Why the disparity?
Last lockdown we went from 5km to 10km as well.
SA is 2.5km.
I understand that they want to limit the spread the localised areas but no idea how they arrived at these numbers.
They appeared to have a pulled a number out of their ….
Accounting work needs to continue during lockdown, there is no doubt there. However you are not included in the current definition of "essential" as defined by the Dan Andrews government. If you explain to these clients that meeting in person is impossible, if their lives depended on it that badly, they'll learn how to conduct their business over Zoom and email very quickly.
Your firm needs to just do what etax does.
Reskin ATO online and ask the same questions, but charge people $80 to do their return.
I see the logic here is hard to follow;
Will people die if you don't do your job? (Essential Worker)
Are people more likely to die from you going round all your clients, collecting their documents, and passing delta between them?
Will people die if you don't do your job?
Use that logic on bottle shops lol :)
Yeap its there for comfort only hehe .
I thought the reason for this was to prevent alcohol withdrawal?
In all seriousness some alcoholics can actually die if they go cold turkey.
Hmmmm I hope they have plenty of benzodiazepines for those alcoholics being jailed .
Essential work but doesn’t require face to face.
Accountants in my organisation have been WFH for over a year.
Sorry mate, you are an account not a emergency care specialist, a nurse or a police officer. Sorry to burst you bubble but you are not that important.
I did my tax returns last year (which were complicated) with my accountant over the phone and via email. Not an issue.
Also did my tax return with my accountant for the first time over the phone this year instead of the usual face-to-face. Was actually faster than doing it in person as my accountant asked me to complete some documents prior to the phone consultation and just spent the phone call double-checking on things.
Usain bolt ran a sub 10 seconds 100m after a breakfast of 6 mc chicken nuggets.
Running sub 10 sec 100m. Not an issue.
I'm not sure what this shit analogy is supposed to mean.
Just because 1 person can do something, doesn't mean everyone else can
@[Deactivated]: Fiesty one arent ya.
I don't, you evidently don't. But that doesn't mean that everyone can effectively (or want yo do) a tax return over the phone/email.
we have been outsourcing this kind of work for decades. clearly its not essential for them to be in an office face2face
You won't get any sympathy here OP.
99% of ozbargain went WFH at the drop of a hat at the outbreak of covid, and productivity went through the roof.
The only reason some of them are getting dragged back into the office is due to some civic conspiricy to keep the CBD landlords happy.
well in Perth, CBD, there is massive issue now due to WFH.
Not as bad as Perth, but in Sydney CBD, I keep seeing more and more closed businesses and For Lease signs on Cafe's and Take-aways.
And this is after they were already shut for years whilst the Light Rail was being built!
This was the final nail in the coffin.
I'd just like to point out that there seems to be a lot of misconception and stereotype of the work of an accountant. Indeed, there are many specialised areas of accounting, not just one who does tax returns.
Op, I commend you for your passion and desire to help your clients. I recognise that many work that you do does impact on people's live and livelihood. This latest lockdown restrictions will no doubt create even more issues for people in their financial affairs. But just like so many industries and professions, everyone (including those that we serve) is forced to adapt, adjust and in many instances, accept to work with what we have.
Deal with what you can control. Don't worry about what you can't.
Good luck with it all!
I have worked throughout every single lockdown in our city and we are super busy. I manage a general practice. But during lockdowns all of our consults are phone or video unless GP requested patient to come in.
Unless it is removal of stitches, wound dressings, anything emergency or if gp needs to do a physical examination etc
The point is to have as lil ppl out and about and minimise transmission. None of us want to get covid either. Need to protect my staff.
If everyone did the right thing, it doesn't take long to get back to zero. In brisbane, during lockdown, the entire city is like a ghost city. Barely any cars.
If you are on the road you risk the chance of randomly getting pulled over by the cops. There are even police surveillance in empty shopping malls. Grocery shopping should be 1 person per household.
NSW should have been out of lockdown weeks ago if the rules were clear cut. Gladys made huge mistakes costing lives and billions to businesses and the covid package will cost billions to tax payers. How will we ever pay all of this? Yes our taxes will go up.
I don't think accountant is essential services in the face of a pandemic and especially the delta strain. Imagine every accounting firms open n clients meetings etc what's the point of a lockdown?
When you get back to the reason for a lockdown… you will understand the best way to
minimise transmission. Least ppl out and about as possible.
Even hospitals have delayed cat 2 and cat 3 surgeries. Patients been suffering for mths in pain and devastated to have their surgery delayed. How can you even think accountant is essential?
Only emergency and cat 1 are accepted in hospitals during lockdown. Specialists running their own practice are only doing telehealth.
No.
Israel, the gold standard for COVID, still has 1,221 new cases per day, people are still dying and it is not shutting down - and everyone there is Vaccinated:
http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/#gra…
We will never be able to stop COVID in the community, ever, even with everyone Vaccinated. It's a fallacy.
When we get to 70% Vaccination, every State needs to open EVEN if people die of COVID. People will die - That's life.
I get where you are coming from, I took over a business that was previously ran with hard copies of everything. Desktop versions for accounting thus all the accounting was face to face. We are now fully digital which is 100% easier and far more streamlined however I don't see how the older generation of business owners could handle a switch to digital communication.
We all have that one person we watch type that breaks our brain.
I still don't think it's essential, accountants could surely apply for extensions for the type of customers I mentioned above. The ATO is pretty forgiving in these situations.
Watching the press conference today Glady said ' We have the best health advice in Australia I think '
Normally she says it without the bold bit lol :)
Some pressure coming on her .
Good.
She killed many small businesses.
and yet, prostitutes across NSW have been pushed into destitution since they cant provide services on site, at home or kerb side pick up.
Correct.
Prostitutes in NSW have indeed been pushed into destitution.
Prostitutes are eligible in NSW for the free $15,000 from the Government:
https://www.service.nsw.gov.au/2021-covid-19-business-grant-…
Search "9534"
yep, this is what the PM has been saying from the get go.
you can work from home. If you clients can not learn to send docs digitally, then may be they should wait for 2 weeks.
This is just bizzare. You're a ball hair's breadth away from having your business model made obsolete by automation & outsourcing, and you're whinging about essential worker status? So, lets look at this logically.
Any customer who cannot provide you documents digitally, you can approach ATO, State Revenue and Debt Recovery Offices to get special dispensation for COVID. Everyone is happy to push deadlines especially if your clients are old.
You're better off trying to figure out how you can digitise faster and reduce reliance on these kind of customers.
Accountant for the Mafias? Do you have to be physically there to count stacks and stacks of cash and "inventories"? If yes, that's essential.
🤣🤣
Name the spot and the stand over merchants need to do some of their essential work .
The ATO finally woken up and made its app with fingerprint login. A bit like uber for accountants. Changing times.
One day cars have fingerprint readers and loggers so insurance cheats find it a bit harder!
lol.. nope
They can easily work from home
I thought everyone is an essential worker? Isn't that the mantra when Covid hit in early 2020.
on a side note, if you do accounting for essential workers, ie medical related, you can get them to send you a letter, advising that you are essential to them.
McDonald's is still open amidst a public health crisis yet obesity and heart disease are still our biggest killers, followed by suicide, I think?
I'm all for restrictive measures that improve public health, but closing gyms and funnelling people into fast food drive thrus due to a lack of other options is an unprecedented public health failure.
Edit: my point is that if maccas crew are essential workers, anyone is an essential worker. And as a caveat, if you're on a wage, it's criminal for the government to take away your right to work without providing compensation.
I don't think some people realise "essential work" means essential to others survival, not "essential" for you to make an income.
Yes, you might not be productive from home. But nobody is dying because they have to wait a little longer to file taxes.
I am an accountant and we deferred all the all of the non-essential work (income tax return); we only provide work for those people who need help on applying grand etc so they can live on.
The term 'essential employee' was a ruse governments gave their populations on the behest of multi billion dollar conglomerates for us plebs to argue over so that we don't band together against the greatest wealth transfer from the middle and lower classes to the richest of the rich that's been happening for 18+ months, and will continue until we are all serfs again.
Lovely another conspiracy theory .
I'd love the social media sites to fact check some of them but they seem to get the most hits .
So that will never happen .
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/oct/07/covid-19-cr…
But yeah, it's a 'conspiracy theory' that should be censored… People like you are the reason Assange has been tortured for a decade for giving the people facts. You cheer on big government censorship by using social media as state actors without realising that's totalitarianism.
You should be ashamed for cheering on and advocating for censorship while you slander information you disagree with as 'conspiracy theory'.
There is nothing in that article about the term 'essential workers'.
It is an interesting article though.
Do you have any actual information that supports your comment?
@GG57: As you can see, the context for providing that link was the above user calling it a 'conspiracy theory' that billionaires have increased their wealth via transfer from middle and lower classes, and that social media should be censoring any information the government says so. That link was over 6 months old and it's only got significantly worse since then.
Rational/critical thinking can easily extrapolate the observation of that wealth transfer to how you and I are arguing over 'who is essential' when the real issue is how we are bickering over nothingness while our way of life is being destroyed and our wealth is being funneled to the ultra rich.
Everyone apart from the ultra rich are slowly are being turned into serfs, and you're not immune. When your time comes, who will speak up for you if you do not speak up for those lives who are being ruined? It's almost like you are gleefully following the most draconian measures because you think you'll be spared, when your wealth and health is already being funneled upwards but you refuse to see it and instead argue on the side of the ultra wealthy.
@studentl0an: My reading of the comment by popsiee is that they were calling out your statement "The term 'essential employee' was a ruse governments gave their populations on the behest of multi billion dollar conglomerates…".
They didn't dispute that billionaires have increased their wealth.
@GG57: I think you have to be truly blind to not see "essential employee" being 'gifted' to us early in the pandemic by governments as they shuttered small businesses all across the world and denigrated them as 'non essential' while the billion dollar conglomerates faced no such regulation and increased their already astronomical wealth in the 10s of trillions of dollars.
If you don't find that malevolent, then surely you can see that that's the effect it had regardless if that was the intention or not. How would someone provide a source to that, if that's the only way you would consider the argument? Would you need some secret camera footage of when Bezos calls up his contacts in Public Office? Why can't you see it for what has actually happened and continues to happen? Do you have any redline that if crossed you would start to see the merit of the otherside? If not, it would be useful to have one otherwise you're just a frog in a boiling pot unable to sense they are boiling to death, while you call the frogs that have already died in the pot below you "non essential".
Humans can die from lack of food or medical attention. No one dies from lodging their tax late.
Insurance Brokers are considered essential being included in the financial services umbrella. Same with Mortgage Brokers too I think?
Not for nsw. But for Vic (I think)
I see financial institutions in the VIC list which would be banks running ATM and teller services (massively reduced). People need cash for food and health services.
Brokers don't provide these essential services.
@ddhar: https://www.niba.com.au/2021/03/31/essential-workers/
Edit - yes I know that's QLD. But I know Brokers in Vic are open…
@bemybubble: Do you actually know or just hoping?
The VIC list does not explicitly state Brokers and I can't see how brokers provide an essential service to human life & health.
Plus, the work can be done remotely.
@ddhar: Actually know.
The definition is Financial Services. Very broad:
https://asic.gov.au/regulatory-resources/financial-services/
Plus, the work can be done remotely.
Correct - the norm still remains of "you must work from home where you can"
@bemybubble: You've just answered your own question. Do your work from home.
You've also confused Financial Institution with Financial Services.
Ok let me break it down for you…
Accountants have been tasked with some pretty heavy economic stimulus since March last year. Policy which would normally take years to develop was rammed down the chute for the benefit of the people.
This meant having to be constantly on top of stimulus policy that was moving at the speed of light. I legitimately recall making cups of coffee and by the time we got back to our desk policy had changed.
There were late hours. Weekends working and liaising with desperate clients looking for this stimulus. We were tasked to handle this on top of our usual workload. A lot of this was done pro Bono by the way.
If you were on JobKeeper then you have benefited from these hard hours put in.
Now not one of us complain about doing the work - people are in need - we stepped up. All I’m saying is stop tying our hands so we can do it to the best of our ability.
So if you were on JobKeeper and really believe our job wasn’t important, perhaps we should have clocked off at 5 and spent time with the family as I would have preferred to have done.