Wi-Fi Camera Options

SaberX on 30/08/2021 - 20:18
Last edited 30/08/2021 - 20:23

Hi all,

Just wondering what the generally accepted top brands are for home DIY security as far as cameras go? So far the main options in mainstream stores seem to be Eufy, Swann, Ring, and Arlo? Nest used to be around, but i don't see as much from these anymore?I know some mention hikvision are great - but these seem to be more CCTV style than wifi?

Some general things we're after: ability to view cameras remotely i.e. through phone app or computer if need be, and secondly a recording ability if this can be done locally (inbuilt sd card) or for a more theft proof option to be able to record to the cloud.

I'm abit unsure what the 'norm' is for wifi cameras now as it seems most are battery operated i.e. wire free options. Is there anything that allows best of both worlds, where one can use the battery and if they tire of recharging pay an electrician to wire up the cable to powered mains?

Eufy does currently advertise a wire free, battery that lasts 365 days. Presuming it 'lasts' and doesn't degrade significantly over time, has anyone gotten a decent time out of these? Not sure how hard it is to recharge/pull these down for charging, but presumably not something one will want to do every few months. Especially as one gets abit lazy on the maintenance side.

Being able to see night time vision would be good. I'd say just a few cameras here and there: main room of house, back alfreso, side of house/front, garage? Is coverage to get signal for most systems an issue? Or would one require a wifi extender or mesh system? Our router is provided by the ISP and sits behind our garage wall in the office room, so presumably front of house is covered, but wifi range would struggle to the back and back/sides? Or are they quite low bandwith these days?

Are the eufy or other systems easily mounted on walls with tape or non-drilling mounting options? Youtube/amazon seems littered with gutter mounts and sliding mounts that work in the US, but not sure how feasible these are in Australia given our lack of sliding cladding? Has anyone had success not drilling and successfully mounting wifi cameras internally and externally ? once satisfied perhaps we can drill them in eventually…..

Thanks for any recommendations in advance?

Other considerations:

Plan will be to add in standard PIR sensor activated alarms when things quieten down and we can work out a reasonable installer.

Also have small dog, if this is an issue for motion sensors?
Also plan to get a wifi doorbell to monitor front door rings, if this sways the ecosystem choice recommended. Presumably want this one wired by an electrician to avoid extra maintenance work recharging batteries?
Edit: Also up to consider a cheap wall plug stand style camera that could work as an interim internal camera on say a book case internally? I've seen a few i.e. xiao mi being recommended? Is there any stand/bookcase style cameras that are in that sub <$150 range that can be chaged up, or are all at these price generally wall plug powered only?

Electrical & Electronics

Comments

  • iamherenow on 30/08/2021 - 20:50

    That's a lot of questions!

    I'm happy with wired reolink. App works well. Records to SD card. Detects persons and sends alert to phone - so I know when I have a delivery before they ring the doorbell. About $65 each I think it was.

    I do have to clean off spiderwebs though, or the interfere with the movement detection.

    • SaberX on 31/08/2021 - 00:30

      So records to SD card but connects to wifi for notifications? So will always be prone to the wider internet while it's connected? Does it give you any livestream ability though? Hadn't heard much of reolink till i investigated eufy's security breaches recently - is it also a china based brand? or much more secure in terms of quality and security?

  • swong on 30/08/2021 - 20:54

    I'm in the same boat and was tossing up between a reolink POE system or a Eufy wifi system (permanently wire-powered to avoid battery maintenance)

    As I was doing research very recently, I found this wifi doorbell at what seemed to be the best price, so ended up ordering:
    https://www.videopro.com.au/p-13003-eufy-cam-2k-video-doorbe…

    So this will probably lead me down the Eufy path…

    • SaberX on 30/08/2021 - 21:55

      I presume the eufy doorbell you need to charge it regularly though? I kind of (for a doorbell) just want to pay and get it wired in as it's outward facing and meant to be 'permanent', is that an issue?

      Did you do any research on the security side of things? I just stumbled across a bug with their encryption side of things that blew up previously where people could view other user's recordings. Wondering how secure wifi cameras are e.g. if hackers can get into those given they're permanently attached to your wifi can they tunnel into your network and compromise your usually secure computers and phones?

      • swong on 30/08/2021 - 23:07

        The one I linked is the wired version. So an electrician will be needed to wire it up properly.

        Re. security: If you want to get something that is easy to set up and managed for you, then this is always going to be a risk as you are dependent on the vendor. If you're tech savvy, then you can host your own server and run software like Blue Iris which is compatible with a few brands of cameras.

        • SaberX on 31/08/2021 - 00:32

          Oh gotchya. On another note to your original response though, how does an electrician wire up a complete eufy system? for the battery rechargeable ones do they sell or simply fit up a powerpoint connected direct to the usb port to allow an ongoing charge? Or is there a proper cord that can attach from the manfuacturer to wire said eufy systems up? Just haven't been able to view any in person/in store yet to sight if these things come in the box. A bit of a silly questions but generally if wiring it up i presume the electricians will do a few holes and just mount it all up at once too for you?

  • boomramada on 30/08/2021 - 21:10

    Most easiest and economical ( Inc the subscription fee) Ring or something similar.

    Professional ( Hikvision camera ) then you need to factor in HD, DVR, POE switch , wiring and offsite backup.

    I have setup both, Ring is just setup and forget. No maintenance what so ever.

    • SaberX on 30/08/2021 - 21:56

      don't you need to maintain the ring via charging the batteries? or these come wired so you can call an electrician in to mount and wire them and done?

      How does wifi security work with Ring vs others like Eufy though? Wouldn't want to create a backdoor gateway intoa normally secure wifi network with a wifi camera that isnt' protected from being tunnelled through? Are they pretty secure?

      • boomramada on 30/08/2021 - 22:29

        I got the Ring Pro version, hardwared.

        Sorry don't know much about Eufy. Ring has security issues earlier and they fixed it.

        Doesn't matter what kind of security camera you got, if you want to access it over the internet. You need to open up few ports secure it.

  • thatonethere on 30/08/2021 - 21:19

    Wireless is good to start with. After a couple years of battery changes etc you will probably be keen to hard wire a few key locations (unless you are renting)

    • SaberX on 30/08/2021 - 21:57

      The only issue is if you buy all these wifi cameras they dont' come with a port to hard wire a power cable to, or do they generally offer both the battery and a cable option for those that go down wired routes later? If not which brands offer both?

  • Caped Baldy on 30/08/2021 - 22:10

    I've got eufy 2c system with 180 day battery. I don't really time it but I get at least a few months before recharging - it really depends on the number of activations and location of the camera. I end up charging one every couple weeks so it's not to much of a burden. Fairly sure they come with 18650 batteries so if you're brave enough you could open and replace.

    The system comes with a "homebase" which is wired to the router so no sd card which can get stolen and no need to pay for a subscription (there is a paid backup service though).

    We've got ours mounted to brick walls. The instructions say not to leave in direct sunlight, I assume because of the batteries. My place is relatively small so we don't have too many issues with signal. Did have a problem with connection to the closest camera to the router after changing the wifi channel.

    The storage is quite limited at 16gb. There's meant to be usb backup for the HB2 but don't think this has been implemented yet. There is storage to NAS via RTSP. I had set it up for a bit last year but it was recording all footage from one camera not just the snippets and would have to set up each one. So I turned it off. Also, the doorbell camera was not supported to record to the NAS.

    There is https://mysecurity.eufylife.com for watching live footage only - I don't use it as it is a little bit hit and miss. Alerts are not viewable unless you have a subscription to the cloud storage.

    • SaberX on 30/08/2021 - 22:15

      Thanks for the feedback. So essentially you can't live stream view your cameras when out and about with your mobile without having the cloud storage subscription? So really you only get local storage, and won't get any alerts of break ins or the ability to 'check on' your house until you return from say holidays/an event without the live subscription?

      Does your eufy offer 2FA/passwords, or even TLS/SSL encryptions like the reolink cameras?

      Presume wall mounting can be done by anyone who hasn't really used a drill? just drill with provided instructions, wall plug,and screwdriver in?

      • Caped Baldy on 30/08/2021 - 22:32

        Thanks for the feedback. So essentially you can't live stream view your cameras when out and about with your mobile without having the cloud storage subscription? So really you only get local storage, and won't get any alerts of break ins or the ability to 'check on' your house until you return from say holidays/an event without the live subscription?

        Using the mobile app is fine to watch remotely, watch alerts and talk via the cameras. It's just via the website on a computer that you cannot watch alerts - you can watch the live stream.

        Does your eufy offer 2FA/passwords, or even TLS/SSL encryptions like the reolink cameras?

        It's got 2FA for passwords. I don't have it activated. Just turned it on and it sent an email for verification and was able to add my phone as a trusted device.

        Presume wall mounting can be done by anyone who hasn't really used a drill? just drill with provided instructions, wall plug,and screwdriver in?

        Pretty much. It comes with the required fixtures. Might be worth watch a couple youtube videos on installation.

        Some other cameras have optional solar panels for charging. Might be worth looking into. The eufy's are microusb…dunno if it's been updated to usb-c.

        Regarding the breach. It is concerning. I've only got mine at exterior of my place so you could do a mix of different cameras inside.

        • SaberX on 31/08/2021 - 00:24

          Thanks. Have you found the bandwith/quality decent over mobile, rather than jumpy video when live streaming off your mobile? Pretty reliable in that regards?

          With your eufy micro usb cameras, so do you need to dismount to charge these, or do you carry a battery pack and charge these on the spot? Presuming they take a fair bit of time to charge per camera?

          So you haven't found any degradation in battery life from day 1 to now (assuming you've had these awhile) that's noticeable?

          • Caped Baldy on 31/08/2021 - 07:46

            @SaberX: Generally the quality of the viewing of the alerts is okay. I've found sometimes connecting to the doorbell can be slow and some connections missed.

            As for charging, I take them inside to charge. You would a really long cable or somewhere to store the battery pack. It takes at least a few hours to charge. I haven't noticed any battery degradation.

            • TysonB on 31/08/2021 - 08:11
              +1

              @Caped Baldy: Eufy do sell a solar panel that can be connected to a camera to leave it fully topped up every day. They also have released their next generation of cameras - one of which comes with it's own solar panel built into the body of the camera.

  • SaberX on 30/08/2021 - 22:12

    Just reading up on Eufy's supposed security breach in recent times. I do really want the ability to view the stream from my wifi cameras outside of the house - hence the reason for monitoring, is there any brands who run 2FA or strong passwords on cameras and other common encryption/security methods?

    or are you at the mercy once you activate remote monitoring as the cameras need to be fed through the wifi and the camera's manufacturer's server to you? Happy to locally record on sd card and tap in directly to cameras by wifi whilst away from home on my mobile phone, but are there any brands that allow this to be done while bypassing their servers and decreasing cyber risks?

  • skinnytie on 30/08/2021 - 23:34

    I chose the Eufy 2C cameras over Arlo and Reolink based on pice and HomeKit support.

    I was pretty happy with them so I added two floodlight cameras, the battery-powered doorbell, pan-tilt indoor camera, keypad, and motion sensors (although the other aren't compatible with HomeKit).

    Aside from security breach, the only product I would recommend without hesitation is the 2C camera - mine have been totally reliable. I expect the other HomeBase cameras are also good, but I don't have first-hand experience with them.

    The floodlight cameras are pretty good although one of mine loses its WiFi connection occasionally despite having a stronger signal than the other. My biggest issue with the floodlights is that their security modes can't be synchronised with the HomeBase products. Despite using the same app any Eufy security product that doesn't connect to the HomeBase is essential a standalone product - they don't function as part of a system.

    The doorbell was pretty good while it lasted, but that was only around three month. I purchased it in May, then last weekend it suddenly stopped working and wouldn't charge or respond to the reset button. Due to my general dissatisfaction with Eufy products (and dealing with support) I returned the doorbell for a refund and I'll replace it with something else (probably Arlo or Netatmo).

    The security keypad has been the most disappointing and frustrating Eufy product I have used. I bought it because changing security modes via the Eufy app is incredibly annoying - instead of having a mode button on the main screen (like Reolink) you have to go to the security tab, the select the device, then change the mode. Since the products don't function as a single system you have to do that separately for any devices that aren't connected to the HomeBase. I would use geofencing, but Eufy's implementation is completely useless - often it doesn't trigger a mode change until I open the app even if I have been home for hours.

    The keypad will only control the HomeBase but I though being able to do that easily and reliably would be worthwhile, and I got a few motion detectors to go with it thinking it might make a sort of alarm system. Although the 2C cameras are able to maintain a reliable connection to the HomeBase through multiple walls on all sides of the house, the keypad can't manage a reliable connection from 3M away with a clear line of sight. Several times per week the keypad will lose its connection or get out of sync with the HomeBase. Sometimes it might only take 30 seconds or so for it to reconnect and disarm the system, but other times it takes long enough that I use the app so I can go inside. I used to take the keypad off the wall and put it next to the HomeBase to reconnect, but now I just eave it an it always reconnects eventually.

    The motion tracking pan-tilt camera good for watching pets. Buy it on AliExpress rather than paying local prices.

    The security breach was the issue that finally convinced me to give up on Eufy. If it was another company and it had been handled differently I might have been prepared to give them another chance, but I don't trust Eufy to improve their software and processes. If you spend a bit of time in the Eufy forum you will find bugs that have gone unfixed and missing features that have been promised for ages without any indication that Eufy is actually doing anything about them. Geofencing and external storage on the HomeBase are two that spring to mind. There's also the fact that Eufy doesn't seem to have a clear strategy for their products - there's a mix of HomeBase and standalone devices and they don't work together. Even if the standalone devices aren't communicating directly with the HomeBase it should be possible to coordinate them using the cloud service.

    TL;DR - I don't recommend Eufy products.

    • SaberX on 31/08/2021 - 00:29

      Hi mate. Appreciate the lengthy feedback. Im out ona 4am flight tomorrow so i'll reply in length later - to summarise your final thoughts though what camera brand would you trust or at least be the next best given the shortcomings in eufy?

      I wanted to at least get an internal camera in first and was looking at the internal 2k pan tilt camera as you have…. then if good bridge across to their euf 2 plus (for the 365 day battery life) or other products. Sounds like I might need to reconsider.

      Would be keen what company is keeping on top of the shortfalls you mentioned and seem more quality/trustworthy? Particularly to try an internal stand camera first (before getting proper mounted internal/outdoor camera and devices i.e. doorbell).

      THanks for the ali express tip on the pan tilt though. Saw jb is doing it cheaper at $99 on special, ali express alot cheaper/straight from manufacturer? any specific one to ensure legitimate one? Although presuming shipping would take a long time.

      P.S. With the doorbell hadn't heard of netatmo before. Have heard of ring doorbells as the original, not sure if the arlo's are more recommended though given your experience with eufy being poor.

      • skinnytie on 01/09/2021 - 12:25

        My frusrated rant about Eufy products might have been a little bit unfair. Bear in mind that

        The 2C cameras are rock solid. The floodlight cameras are pretty good - my biggest complant is that they don't function as an integrated system with the wireless cameras. The doorbell might be ok - mine died but that might have been bad luck.

        The keypad is the one product that I absolutely would not recommend. However, that's still just my experience with a single unit so take it with a grain of salt.

        Eufy has a poor track record fixing bugs adn delivering promised features. In my experience the geofencing is useless. Apart from that, if the current features meet your needs then the products might be ok… with one big caveat.

        Do you trust Eufy after the security breach? On the one hand, Eufy managed the incident poorly and doesn't have a good track record deliveron promised improvements. On the other hand, perhaps a high-profile incident will make the company impove its practices.

        I didn't stop using my Eufy products after the breach but I won't buy any more until I see evidence that they have improved. Until then every non-Eufy surveillance/ecurity/smart home product I buy reduces the appeal of their ecosystem.

    • Navanod66 on 31/08/2021 - 08:43

      Wow! Sounds like only the 2c and indoor cameras are worth getting?
      By the way, AliExpress's wouldn't ship Eufy to Australia anymore, along with a bunch of stuff like hobby knives etc.

      • skinnytie on 01/09/2021 - 12:32

        It looks like the 2k pan-tilt isn't available from Anker on AliExpress any more.

        I paid AU $68.24 (incl. shipping and GST) for mine in February this year. Today I can only fine tow options - one is overpriced at $118.07 and the other is suspicioulsy cheat at $38.20.

        If you do buy an indoor camera from AlieExpress it will most likely come with a US power adaptor, so factor that into the price (if you don't have a spare USB charger already).

        • ace310 on 08/09/2021 - 18:43
          +1

          I bought indoor cam pan n tilt from aliexpress few weeks back for $75. Though I am in NZ. It was not an US Adapter. It's has 2 round pins. It needs 5v/2a.
          So far I am pleased with the performance.

          Maybe this link helps. Not sure if I can post it here.

          https://a.aliexpress.com/_mLnm2Hp

  • djkelly69 on 31/08/2021 - 07:47

    Seriously, with the amount of questions you have, it might be time to consult a professional.

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