China Bans Crypto. Will You Sell or Hold?

Had the tv on, and saw the wording across bottom screen
https://amp.abc.net.au/article/100491122
.

Poll Options expired

  • 19
    Sell
  • 133
    Hold
  • 20
    Buy
  • 13
    Wait for dip and buy
  • 183
    Got none, won't be getting any
  • 10
    .

Comments

  • +73

    China Bans Crypto "Again"

    fixed the title for you

    • +26

      China has kept increasing the rules against crypto.
      It substantially weakens their currency controls, so was pretty easy to predict it would run foul of the regime there.

      It also undermines taxation and funding of criminal activity in all countries, which I will confidently predict means it will have stricter controls everywhere, or almost everywhere.

      If those controls are effective, I don’t think there is a mainstream use case for crypto except speculation. It would be pretty brave to enter the market at this point, but what would I know? I have been consistently right about the problems, environmental costs and trajectory of regulation, yet the price soared and soared.
      In the Dotcom boom I was equally correct about the value of pets.com stock, but a bunch of people still got rich.

      It is very important not to be the one left holding the bag at the end, whether it is dodgy pets.com stock or a crypto token when the dump is over.

      • How can china "ban" crypto though? Can people not just use a VPN and do what they want with it anyway?

        • +1

          Yes, but like banning talk of the Tiananmen Square ‘incident’ you start out by clamping down gradually, and in a few years there will be firing squads if you have the software installed.

          Crypto will be pushed deep underground, and become very risky.

        • +3

          A currency is certainly not as useful, or an investment is not as lucrative, if it is illegal.

          Let's imagine crypto was banned by Scomo here:

          • No shops or services would be accepting crypto anymore
          • Australian exchanges may be forced to shut down
          • Banks may block transactions to international crypto exchanges
          • You could get fined/jail time for holding crypto

          It would still be possible to buy, hold, and spend crypto, but barely anyone would be interested in doing that, so it would pretty much die out in Australia, apart from the die hard crypto fans.

          • +5

            @Keplaffintech: Do people actually use crypto for buying things? Seems a bit silly, wouldn't gas fees make it ridiculous? I assumed everyone just used it for speculation.

            • +2

              @brendanm: Part of the fuel for the speculation is belief that one day crypto will be used as a mainstream payment method. This is why news such as Tesla accepting payments in Bitcoin pumps the price. A ban would essentially shut the door on this aspect of Bitcoin's utility.

            • +1

              @brendanm: Depends on the blockchain. On Solana and Matic for example the fees are less than $0.01. There are other similar chains as well.
              On BNB I don't think I ever paid more than $0.4 for a transaction.

            • +2

              @brendanm: Lighning network. Last time I made a purchase around $550 AUD the fees were 8 cents.

            • +1

              @brendanm: one of the world's biggest social media platforms (twitter) just introduced instant crypto money transfers….

            • @brendanm: Bitcoin Cash

          • +1

            @Keplaffintech: The PM of Australia can't fight his way out of a paper bag. He couldn't even stop some states from decriminalizing cannabis.

            He has zero chance of stopping the mass adoption of technology.

            • @rektrading: The scheduling of drugs is controlled by the states. The states don't control their own currency

              • +1

                @Shacktool: You're right.

                He who controls the network controls the coins. Neither China nor Australia controls the network.

                They can ban the use in a localised region but not the world. Even a ban can't prevent people living in the same region from using the network. A device that can connect to a node that is connected to the network can Tx P2P.

                Satoshi, whoever he was was a genius. The way he designed the network has made it possible for it to run with a 99.98% uptime. Not even AWS can beat that.

            • @rektrading: the infrastructure is taking care of that…

            • @rektrading: I don't hold Crypto, mate.

        • mining from home or accessing the node isn't the problem, what CCP stoping is trading between fiat and crypto.

        • -2

          How do you buy and sell your crypto? You might be able to mine it, but you can't transact into your Chinese bank accounts.

          On the same token, ban mining and all they need to do is find the idiot with a room full of mining rigs

        • Men with guns - aka the state - kind of sort that out.

      • If those controls are effective, I don’t think there is a mainstream use case for crypto except speculation

        I share your mindset, i'll just add a thought on this point. Peer-to-peer financing seems to be a far more efficient business model than the traditional model involving any middle parties. More of the interest/fee's being paid, ends up directly in the hands of the lender/financer. That's what finally sold me on one of the potential use cases.

        Though, this only works for collateralized financing. Credit cards and similar products will still need a middle man.

        • I think I understand what you mean, but isn’t it just the case that it moves the transaction cost from a bank etc. to some other third party to do the matchmaking and contract enforcement?

          If I am the borrower, then I need to cash out of crypto to buy my car or real estate or whatever. And once it is cashed out, wouldn’t the lender have all the usual risks of not getting repaid?

          So you are still needing an intermediary, even if it is the court, and you still have the need for due diligence etc that a bank provides. I can see it might put some competitive pressure at the edges, but not sure I see the value.

          • +1

            @mskeggs:

            moves the transaction cost from a bank etc. to some other third party to do the matchmaking and contract enforcement?

            Essentially yes, you're moving all of that over to automated software. This contract enforcement only works if the collateral you put up can similarly, be enforced via software contracts.

            There is a 3rd party cost in the sense of paying for the security of the particular crypto-ecosystem. A lot of programmers believe mining rewards are being vastly overpaid, and the ecosystem could work just as well with far lower costs (in bitcoin's example, they shouldn't need to "spend" $40 Million a day, for bitcoin's model to continue working).

            If I am the borrower, then I need to cash out of crypto to buy my car or real estate or whatever. And once it is cashed out, wouldn’t the lender have all the usual risks of not getting repaid?

            You would borrow against collateral. Collateral is typically, the car, real estate, shares. Shares would be a closer approximation of digitized collateral. It's more challenging to pull this off with physical assets (can't really be done at this point in time).

            The lender has your collateral to liquidate which covers their potential risk of loss. Your liquidation provides the safety for the lender.

            So you are still needing an intermediary, even if it is the court, and you still have the need for due diligence etc that a bank provides.

            Yes, when you can't put up a digitized form of collateral. I guess you could say this peer-to-peer model is starting off at the most efficient end of the spectrum with everything digital. Banks are on the opposite, less efficient end of the spectrum (such as high risk credit card lending on the far end).

            I can see this more efficient model taking away the easiest/safest business, and slowly eating into riskier financing, going forward.

      • +3

        If you are saying the entire crypto market is like pets.com, then I totally disagree with you.

        There are certain tokens which are like pets.com. Crypto is like the internet in the 90s, its here to stay and will get bigger and better and more intertwined with people's lives. It will eventually get to a stay where people don't even realize they are using it. Eg, difference between messing around 28.8k and 56k modems in the 90s to now nearly seamless no set up modems and phones nowadays.

        The trick is to pick the Google and Facebook of these tokens and leave out the pets.com tokens.

        Crypto as a whole will definitely be a lot bigger and better.

        • +3

          I profoundly disagree.
          I think there are interesting uses cases for distributed ledgers, and more might be unlocked if computing power keeps growing as it has, but if you exclude crypto driven by speculation/tax avoidance/black market…well, there isn’t really that much left.

          If you are arguing the technology will make laws to control tax and crime unworkable, well, you misunderstand government.

          If you think speculation will drive this in any longer term, then you misunderstand investments.

          I am sure that blockchain will end up in a useful place like DNS or bitorrent or https occupies now. It will enable some nifty things, but nobody talks about how they got rich on https because Google relies on it for every TLS connection. That is just silly.

          Similarly, anybody can clone any of the features of crypto coins/tokens. A few have some first mover advantage, like Alta-vista and US Robotics had in the 1990s. If I want to launch a new social application that uses crypto in some creative way (e.g. like PageRank was a smart way to weight search engine results) why would I choose bitcoin, or ETH or XRP? They all cost money, when I can whip up a new token for free.

          I just think that the open ledger is fixing problems that don’t really exist. So you hate Mastercard taking 1.5% payment fee? Well, for that they do quite a lot, including making it easy, trustworthy and ubiquitous.

          Then look at the downsides of crypto:
          - environmental costs of proof of work crypto
          - enablement of criminal enterprise
          - enablement of tax and currency controls
          - driving video card prices to the moon
          - enabling grifters who are scamming ordinary folk

          That list contains plenty of reasons for both ordinary people and governments to hate crypto.

          That doesn’t prevent somebody underpinning some cool new app with a bit of blockchain for certain elements, but the speculative frenzy is going to end for crypto coins/tokens/NFTs.

          And picking the next Google/Facebook that happens to use some blockchain tech is like saying, you just need to pick the web sites that use HTTP. I mean, yeah, but you won’t get rich if that is your criteria for selecting investments, because if it becomes really common, it will be close to free.

          Anyway, what I say here has been true for 8 years, and I have been wrong at bitcoin prices of $3, $30, $300 and $30000. So I maybe wrong at bitcoin $43000 too. Speculation is intoxicating. But consider what I have written to understand that the things driving crypto prices aren’t attributes of value for the tokens/coins.
          The tokens/coins are worth little (well, BTC will always be worth a couple of bucks as a gag gift in future, like Zimbabwe $1T dollar bills) or nothing. The ones that are anchored to some real world value are only as trustworthy as their operators, which is the same deal with MasterCard, but who is a better bet? A Magic the Gathering trading card site or similar versus the decades old company owned by a bunch of banks.

          Best of luck if you are putting any money into crypto.

          • +4

            @mskeggs: Alot of your points has either been disproven or proof of your profound misunderstanding of cryptocurrencies and how they work.

            It is a false narrative that crypto is mainly used by criminals or other illicit purposes. A report in 2021 by Chainalysis says that as of 2019, illegal and illicit activity for all cryptocurrency transactions represented only 2.1% and its decreasing year on year. https://www.forbes.com/sites/haileylennon/2021/01/19/the-fal...

            As for speculation, many investments involves speculation, property, share, even commodities.

            Whilst it is true you can clone coins, you can create a complete clone of Bitcoin because its all open source, but its not the same. You can't clone the community, the brain power, the developers, so you can create Bitcoin 2.0, without knowledge, expertise and community, no one will want to buy your Bitcoin clone.

            As for your downsides of crypto:

            • environmental costs of proof of work crypto
              How much energy do the banking system use each year? How much value do we get from it, versus Bitcoin? Vast amount of energy are being wasted each year just by people forgetting to turn the light off.

            • enablement of criminal enterprise
              Many things do that. If you look what criminal enterprises use to fund their operations, fiat currencies like USD, AUD, GBP are being used way more than cryptocurrencies.

            • enablement of tax and currency controls
              I presume you mean the avoidance of these tax and currency controls? These schemes existed before cryptocurrencies. Its the same as arguing that, knives can kill people, let's ban all knives.

            • driving video card prices to the moon
              This is just capitalism. A good is valued based on its utility and unfortunately gamers are being priced out.

            • enabling grifters who are scamming ordinary folk
              Scams existed way before cryptocurrencies and the vast majority of scams nowadays still use fiat currency through the traditional banking system, so don't see what your point is.

            Speculation is intoxicating

            It sure is, especially when I'm being proven right again and again and again. :) As Charles Hokinson, founder of Cardano recently said, "you either be part of the change or have the change forced upon you without your permission". Ever tried to get one of those bank books where they print your balance on it when you visit the branch? Ain't gonna happen. This held true for cars, internet, computers and other technology and it will hold true for cryptocurrencies.

            • @techlead: Up to you.
              But you might take the advice that if you make a bunch of paper profits, take a life changing amount out, and put it in a trust invested in conservative assets, administered by somebody who is sceptical of crypto.

              If you are right, you didn’t make quite as much money as you could have, big deal. If you are wrong, you will avoid that final ‘buy the dip’ when your paper profits evaporate and you aren’t thinking at your clearest.

              Be smart and don’t think there is no difference between having a couple of hundred grand or million or whatever ringfenced is meaningless because you are expecting to make 100s of millions.
              Because if you are wrong it will matter a hell of a lot.

              • +1

                @mskeggs: I agree with the need to take profits, that what I'm looking at now.

                In 8 years I've been able to make enough to retire comfortably. No other investment could have done that. Not property, not shares, not commodities.

      • +2

        There is so much genuine innovation going on in DeFi right now that one countries ban is another countries opportunity.
        Rallying against crypto is no smarter than opposing the introduction of the automobile, electricity or the internet.
        Despite all the hurdles crypto will continue to prosper.

      • In another era there is an alternate @mskeggs petitioning against the introduction of home electricity because of the dangers, rallying against the internet as a tool for predators to enter the home, and marching with the blacksmiths to abolish the combustion engine. Every time convinced they are right for apparently very valid reasons.

        • +1

          Lol.
          I think you might have picked the wrong avenue to pursue here.
          I’ve got no axe to grind against new technologies, and I initially was quite interested in the possibilities until it became clear it was being swamped by grifter, con artists and scammers.

          I think you can confidently position owning crypto coins/tokens now as similar to owning Cisco, Redhat, Yahoo and Worldcom stock in 2k.
          Some of those companies did quite well, some were left behind, and some were frauds.
          You could be 100% right that the Internet was a technology watershed, but investing in the big names in the frenzy didn’t result in riches.

          The way crypto is organised now is going to have the same result.

          To put it in the terms of your message, you are investing in electricity. Well done. That was certainly a transformational technology, just didn’t make anybody rich who invested in it.

          Look at railways in the 1880s, radio in the 1920s, telecoms in the 1990s. Each time, the frenzy pushed prices high, and left the bulk of investors holding the bag.

          That you take this criticism of crypto currencies, particularly proof of work currencies, NFTs and the silly speculative prices for traded tokens personally makes me suspect your attachment isn’t very rational.
          A public ledger has some interesting utility. The way coins are currently organised will see them much more regulated or banned.
          This isn’t a repudiation of the technology, and people were saying similar things about the Internet in 1997.
          There will be public revolts if it is censored, the Internet will route around regulation. All proved nonsense, and laws against child pornography, terrorism, hate speech, money laundering etc. Are all here now. The world basically cooperated at varying levels to regulate the Internet.

          The same will happen with crypto that is used for avoiding tax and currency controls, and that is used for criminal activity. If your investments won’t withstand that, it is only a matter of time till they fail.
          That doesn’t mean that Goldman Sachs or somebody won’t use an Ethereum like blockchain to automate futures trades, or the tech is broken. Just you can’t believe the stories the crypto boosters are peddling.

  • +1

    Gee what a surprise.

    https://fintechs.fi/2021/07/17/china-release-white-paper-on-...

    Of course all the global government are working on the same scheme in all of their 'branches' ATM but China seems the most proactive (so far) at squashing any competition.

    And for those who don't see the dangers in government controlled digital currency, check this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkgV7LJv5Os

    And for up to date news on the same topic but from a different angle, and from Canada.

    https://youtu.be/6LAMuhgzXLs

    • +12

      Government regulation of digital currency is no different or better/worse than regulation of normal currencies.
      The crypto crowd thought they had a way to avoid laws and taxes. They don’t, or at least won’t in the medium term.

      • And how has that worked out for the whole world?

        • +3

          Not sure what you mean. It's been pretty good for the developed world. A bit average in the developing world, but just one of many issues.

          I don't have any issue with taxes being collected and laws being upheld.

        • Part of the reason all nations moved away from the gold standard is because control of your national currency provides several levers to stabilise the economy.

          When the world was on the gold standard, food inflation soared in the winter, and crashed in the spring, the currency was fixed, so prices fluctuated in response to changes in supply - when crops were harvested.

          If you want a recent example, look what happened to Greece when the EU stopped allowing them to issue bonds. Their economy was crippled and they had to run an austerity budget. Taxes increased significantly, particularly on the poor and small business, as GST-like consumption taxes are hard to dodge. Riots followed soon after.

          None of this will happen in the US even though they are trillions of dollars in debt, because they have ultimate control of their of currency.

          There is a strong incentive for any developed nation to ban a competing currency if possible. The only nations who will promote it are those that have already lost control and use USD unofficially

  • +8

    Another option for the poll…

    *Only hold free crypto from sign up bonuses and won't buy any 😂

    • Why would you not buy any?

      • +1

        my vote is HODL and buy the dipception!

    • I have $600 of free btc holding away

  • +14

    The ban is good for crypto: it means lower prices and more crypto for the rest of us.

    Everything is always good for bitcoin. Few understand.

  • +8

    Isn't that like the 3rd or 4th time they've banned it this year? It's been banned there at least 10 times.

    • There are lots of people on here with a Chinese background or upbringing.
      I think a lot will agree the way China introduces new laws is by gradually tightening up existing regulations.
      A really clear example was how they managed Internet access, a gradual increase until you end up with a cadre of round the clock censors monitoring everything.I don’t see crypto regulation being any different.

      The stage is set for show prosecutions in the coming months where those not smart enough to take the hint and get out of crypto now will face prosecution.

      What this means for the global crypto market? Who can say.

    • At least 10th

  • +9

    Hadn't China banned this many times already?

  • +7

    If you sell every time there is an announcement in the crypto world you’d be selling every week.

  • +5

    Good . Papa need more bags of ETH at discount

  • +4

    Hold and buy more at low

    China is inconsequential in terms of cryptocurrency

    Their ruling is but a joke

  • +3

    "I came, I saw, I bought."

    People read too much into this "ban". Have look at history. Technology that gets ban reduces supply but doesn't damper demand and it shows when the price goes up to the right.

    The Chinese government is fighting the trend by ignoring the saying " Don't fight the trend". Their people will find a way to get what they want. They always do.

    • +1

      I agree everything except the last sentence "Their people will find a way to get what they want. They always do." They don't. They won't be called China if their people get what they want.

    • +1

      Yeah, that's clear from Hong Kong.

      • Yea, people moved out, well those who had the capacity. Can't say the same for Tibet & Xinjiang though.

  • +3

    I sold all mine when I found out what a tax nightmare it is. Ill never get back into it.

    The fact every trade for another coin is a taxable event is a nightmare. If I could do it again, I would have just bought 1 type of coin, kept it then sold it for a profit. Then instead of having to worry about hundreds of trades, it could be I bought bitcoin at $10,000 sold it at $50,000 pay tax on 40k profit.
    Thats the way to do it.

    I only found out its like that because an american in college on reddit said he turned 1500 into 850k, but it crashed down to 150k. He owed the IRS the tax on 850k and everyone in the comments agreed he owed it.

    • you can do it again though

      • +3

        Yeah I have thought about it. I have learned some valuable lessons. Like I said if I had my current knowledge back then I would be very well off. Not hindsight of the coins, but the way to do it.

        If I took the coin that was most profitable that I had and just put all of it into that one coin. I could have turned 32,000 into 420,000. Once in a lifetime opportunity blown. Life changing money chance gone.

        • +1

          there are still many coins that will do that in the next 6 months - 5 years

            • -2

              @brendanm: QNT, ETH, BTC, VXV, and probably a lot of shitcoins

              basically anything in the 30-100 position on coinmarketcap that looks promising.

              ETH ($2950) is forcast to hit 20k which is still 6.6x from where we are now = 32k into 211k

              BTC ($42k) to 150k-400k = 32k into 114k (on the low side of the forcast)

              QNT ($311) ranked at 41 should be a top 10 coin which is 8-10x from where it is now 32k into 256k

              VXV ($14) about to list on kucoin which will probably 2-3x on listing, then climb over the next few years.

              HBAR

              COTI

              FET

              plus many more

              • @redfox1200: I forecast ETH to hit $120k, based on fundamentals. Please send me 1.2% analyst fee when the coin hits that mark. In cash, please.
                Or you can make a huge saving by sending me the 1.2% now, at todays prices. That is a 90% saving!

    • +2

      he could have paid tax on the 150k if he sold his holdings before the next tax year though, as the loss would have been in the same year. the issue is when your loss carries into the next year and you didn't take enough out to pay the tax

      • …or used privacy coins?

        Though I suppose the crooks will get you when you transfer any of it into cash?

    • +6

      I only found out its like that because an american in college on reddit said he turned 1500 into 850k, but it crashed down to 150k. He owed the IRS the tax on 850k and everyone in the comments agreed he owed it.

      This is bull. Unrealized gains are not taxable.

      His tax liability is only limited to the difference between the (sale price - (cost price + fees)) - (tax concessions) = loss or gains.

      He would have plenty of cash to pay taxes if he sold at $850,000. Even selling at $150,000 is enough to cover the taxes from $1,500 to $150,000.

      • +5

        A buy / sell for one coin to another is a taxable event.
        Im not going to argue about it, my accountant told me it, and honestly I dont give a shit anymore because I will never get back in. Crypto tax programs also agree.

        • +1

          I'm not saying that your accountant is wrong but rather the story the guy told on Reddit is a troll.

          The IRS treats digital assets like personal property and taxes the gains the same way as real property. Unrealized gains aren't taxable and realized gains are taxed when exchanging from asset > asset or asset > fiat.

          Digital assets are the only asset class that can be 10x, 100x or 1000x in a year. Spending a few days working out the tax liability is a small price to pay for the potential upside.

          • +8

            @rektrading: not a troll

            trade 1.5k > 850k = 255k tax

            takes gains

            invests 850k into shitcoin

            end of tax year owes 255k

            shitcoin goes to $0

            owes IRS 255k last financial year

            this financial year tax capital loss of 850k

            net result -255k

            this has happened to many people in Australia too

            • +6

              @redfox1200: Yeah what's the problem? Buy a house and make 850k profit on sale, taxable event. Same scenario with shares. Doesn't matter what you do with those funds after selling, you realised a profit and must pay tax on it. If you don't set aside cash to pay the tax liability that's on you, especially if you then put all of that cash into a highly volatile investment. The guys problem is not that he bought another coin, it's that he gambled the cash he needed to pay the IRS and he lost, now he puts his big boy pants on and deals with it.

          • +11

            @rektrading: "Exchanging one cryptocurrency for another (e.g. Bitcoin for Ethereum) will be considered by the ATO to be a CGT event. If you dispose of one cryptocurrency to acquire another cryptocurrency, you dispose of one CGT asset and acquire another CGT asset."

            https://cryptotaxcalculator.io/guides/crypto-tax-australia/

            I called the ATO, they said the same. My accountant, people in the thread on reddit, my crypto tax program all said the same. It also resets the 1 year long term investment timer, so you pay twice the tax even if you owned the first coin over a year.

            Youre better off doing like I said buying 1 coin, let it grow in profit, dont trade it for any other coin, sell it and bring the money back to AUD. Treat it like a stock.

            My accountant had to go back and edit my previous 3 years of Tax reports. Even though I put the money in 2018 and never added more money, I was trading coins every year creating tax events. My understanding at the time was I put in 32k, the ATO doesnt care until I put it back into my bank account. If I bring 40k back to my account, I pay tax on the 8k.

            Cost me so much money, took her 3 weeks to do it. Was one of my most depressed times, when you print out literally over 100 pages of transactions and it needs to be perfect or youll have the ATO on your ass. Scary stuff. Without a crypto tax program it would have been near impossible as you need to prove what the coin was worth during each transaction to the exact amount, and what its worth today. For every single transaction, then work out if each one was a loss or gain.
            I was so depressed I didnt even look at crypto prices for months, and I sold some at a loss so I could deal with it all in the financial year and never worry about it again. It was that stressful. It used to keep me up at night & wake me up. Horrible time in my life.

            Its fun to try the different coins, use all the different wallets ect. Imagine if I was rich and was moving around 10x the value of coins at the time. Its the one time I was glad I wasnt rich.

          • @rektrading: "Spending a few days working out the tax liability is a small price to pay for the potential upside."

            I completely agree, maybe you should do that before you owe the ATO a house.

      • +8

        This is bull. Unrealized gains are not taxable.

        He sold/traded along the way. It's a realized gain. Unfortunately it's a very common mistake from new investors.

        They haven't made a loss sale to offset the earlier gains with realized losses, before the end of financial year rolled over. Then they end up with a ridiculous bill owed to their local tax agency for the most recent tax period.

        edit:

        It was probably something similar to this

        https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/mg5c2e/4500...

    • I haven't done my tax return in a few years due to this. Overall I'm at a big loss but how on earth am I meant to work out every trade ? I would've done hundreds and some websites don't even exist anymore. What am I meant to do ?

      • You havent put a tax return in for years, or you've had an accountant take over? If you havent put one in at all for a few years, id deal with that ASAP!
        The government knows you have crypto, sites like BTCmarkets have to report to them, and its linked to your bank account.

        I got a email from the Gov. saying they know I have crypto and I need to report it. It was a real email.
        Its a tax nightmare, and I have talked 4 people out of crypto who were going to get into it because of the tax implications. When I told them what you have to do they all said thanks, and Eff that.

        I literally felt sick to my stomach when I found out.

        • Pretty sure some exchanges track your taxable event like Swyft…

      • +1

        If you can't track it, no one else can either. Record what you can and pay the tax. It would cancel out anyway- you aren't cheating anyone. If you have lost money overall you won't owe anything.

        You can't just not submit a return, the ATO will never forget

      • +1

        If you can, try using a service like Koinly to automatically calculate it. When you say the websites don't exist anymore, are you referring to exchanges? I got lucky as most of my trading was done via Coinbase and Binance, so I could just import my history and spit myself out a nice report.

      • +1

        You can use a Crypto tax calculator.

        Basically it syncs with all the exchanges you're on and calculates your return from that. People have done side-by-side comparisons with the calculators and manually and they're pretty identical.

        If you're really nervous about it, just pay a crypto accountant to do it. They will just use a calculator to do it, but will do some checking on the result.

    • +3

      I don’t get why you won’t do it again as if it’s a crypto problem. If you buy shares and turn 1500 into 850k, sell and then buy back in, you will also have a capital gain of 848500. It’s not a crypto specific problem.

      • -1

        Thats because you werent the one dealing with the stress I did.
        I want nothing to do with it, is that ok with you?

        • Considering I have been trading shares for over 10 years. Yes.

            • +1

              @gammatsunami: Your welcome. I’m glad I can point out that we all pay taxes. Paying capital gain tax is not a crypto problem.

              • @tomleonhart: I dont want anything to do with it, like I said earlier. Leave me alone.

              • +1

                @tomleonhart: Agree completely. There are tools that automate crypto tax calculations, and your accountant can verify and assist. If exchanges have gone bust, please provide a best estimate, after discussions with accountant.

    • +1

      There are a number of websites that do it all for you now … i currently use koinly

    • If you sell at 850k then put it into a shit coin and it goes to $0. Don't you then have a realized capital loss too offset the realized gain?

      • +1

        You have to sell the shit coin and only if it's in the same financial year. Holding something does not trigger a taxable event, but trading it does.

        • yes okay but i thought it gets carried over to the next financial year.

          what about trading on decentralized exchanges? aus gov can't track that

          • @jmagic0: Losses carry over to future years and you can offset it with future gains, but not the other way round.

            As for avoiding taxes, even if you're trading on a decentralised exchange, you'll be converting the gains to fiat and into a bank account in order to spend them, which means it'll be traced back to you.
            Unless you directly purchase things with tokens and it never touches your bank?

            • @tikei: Go on holiday to El Salvador. There is no tax on legal tender.

            • @tikei: you buy a st kitts passport for around 200k AUD. you can have dual passport with Aus. so you open a bank account in st kitts to withdraw your gains. you'll only do this if you make serious money in crypto

  • +2

    always hold

  • +1
  • +2

    Hold obviously. Doesn't mean anything to me. How many things have China banned.

    • name checks out

  • +2

    Hodl and to the moon yadda yadda… The Chinese government have effectively just put upward pressure on crypto by making it more illegal. People will still want it and will still go to great lengths to hide it.