Had the tv on, and saw the wording across bottom screen
https://amp.abc.net.au/article/100491122
.
China Bans Crypto. Will You Sell or Hold?
Nugs on 25/09/2021 - 10:10
Last edited 25/09/2021 - 10:12
Last edited 25/09/2021 - 10:12
Poll Options
- 19Sell
- 133Hold
- 20Buy
- 13Wait for dip and buy
- 183Got none, won't be getting any
- 10.
Comments
Really you call not even 1% accumulating it for what financial power they can unleash ?
At least they have brains not to be serious about something they can't control .
HODL of course! China bans everything great and makes their own centralised communist version.
Didn’t they ban it last year and the year before that?
CCP are run by a bunch of draconian relics!
These are old senile people who don't understand anything about blockchain technology!
They are scared because they can't control it!
Little do these seniles know you can't ban something which is decentralised!
Yes they can ban the exchanges, but it is impossible for them to ban someone with a usb drive or seed phrase in their heads!
Worst case scenario, someone in china can just go overseas for a short holiday, trade crypto and then go back home.
The very fact that CCP has tried again and again over the past few years to ban crypto is PROOF itself that they can't control it, the only way is through fear!
They have banned it more than few times, its time to buy the dip.
It’s buy time
Buy buy buy
You guys just need to buy stake and buy HEX.
A little bit of this doesn't hurt.
Best moves, crypto is designed for criminals. Banning it helps to reduce crime. Good job China.
Without crypto, ransomware was almost unheard of and basically useless. I bet Satoshi is proud.
The argument that it's used by criminals because of it's anonymity is the opposite of what's true.
It's the most traceable currency in the world and all transactions are public to everyone.
So you are support regulation that ties coin transactions to real world identities to make crime and tax avoidance difficult?
If so, you haven’t got any problems, because that is the kind of regulation that will come about.
@mskeggs: No I don't. As you may be aware, authorities can already trace the transactions and can subpoena services to get additional information from exchanges. We don't need more laws, we need less laws.
@studentl0an: So I don't understand.
Crypto allows for untraceable financial transactions - I can switch between coins to make following the money impossible.
But you don't want less to stop that.Saying that crypto is not suitable for use by crime because you can show ledger entries on a single block chain is meaningless.
@mskeggs: What don't you understand? It's traceable and the authorities have no problem at all tracing it. That's very easy to understand. If you ever want to cash out, there is a public ledger showing where all the money came from.
Even if you use washing services, you'll always have to cash out from an exchange. If the police suspect you of a crime - they don't need to show that a person tried to wash it through XMR or other washing service. They just need to show a person got a lot of BTC and tried to cash it out without having the paperwork for how they got the money in the first place.
As you may be aware we have laws with cash for this exact reason. If someone is suspected of a crime and is found with a large amount of cash money, and can't prove where it came from - it gets confiscated and they have to prove in court that it came from legal means to get it back. It's the same with crypto.
For you to call it meaningless, when it's the exact reason why it's so traceable - boggles the mind.
I'm starting to think you have no idea about crypto at all, you just heard some bad things and now you're on a crusade to ban it, so you have no problem at all providing misinformation.
@studentl0an: This. Can't between scare stories from the bigger picture.
markets.businessinsider.com/news/currencies/13-top-banks-investing-cryptocurrency-blockchain-technology-funding-blockdata-bitcoin-2021-8
I mean the CCP holds crypto but it's still bad right?
@compound: You keep pretending that blockchain technology is the same thing as a crypto coin. Do you not know the difference?
Public ledger technologies are likely useful, and the technology can be applied for free.
Owning a token or coin is not useful, unless you are speculating, or seeking to conduct illegal transactions.A list of banks investing in the technology, but not the coins, is very clear proof of what I am saying.
I understand if you hold crypto currency it is worrying to see people making clear arguments why that speculative bubble is a risk, but calling it a scare story and trying to change the subject isn’t making that risk go away.
@mskeggs: You had me at owning a coin is not useful.
Um, there's a number of businesses on the top of my head that accepts certain cryptocurrency and I can use it to transact purchases - explain how this is not useful?
Sound like you don't understand the applications of crypto tbh because it's bad and all I hear are opinions and scare stories.
Give me evidence to convince me that it's not useful - at this point you're just sounding outright biased. Happy to look at the evidence that you're basing your opinions on though like reports, data etc…
@mskeggs: A DLT without a native coin doesn't work.
A DLT that is made, used and controlled by banks or other centralised organisations doesn't work.
A DLT has to be decentralized, permissionless, trustless and immutable or it doesn't work.
@studentl0an: Nice try, only you know all about crypto! But you are being circular in your arguments.
Saying there is no need to regulate crypto because its use in crime is the same as cash?
I think you know that one of the main use cases for crypto currency is anonymous transactions. Yes, you can follow the transactions on the ledger, but you keep pretending the laundering that is actually happening between currencies doesn’t matter. And that it isn’t a problem because the cops will see any large deposits to a bank account.Give me a break. How do you think that plays out when ransomware is taking down oil pipelines?
Crypto regulation will likely be mainly about removing that anonymity, so that existing laws around criminal enterprises and tax can be more easily enforced.
It won’t impact any crypto users except the crooks, but it is likely to dampen speculation.
So tell me again how crypto is a world changing technology that will impact everything, yet it shouldn’t be regulated because any misuse of it is just a trivial little thing the cops can already fix.
Get your story straight. If crypto is important, then we need regulation to prevent it undermining our laws and taxes - but that will likely harm speculation.If crypto isn’t important, then regulation isn’t necessary, but then it isn’t earth shattering and the speculation is a house of cards.
@mskeggs: Wait you're going to accuse me of circular logic when you're the one actually doing it in regards to criminals using it? I've given very clear reasons why it's terrible for criminals to use and you're the one who keeps circling back to that argument despite me giving you very clear reasons why it's terrible for criminals. It's very plain for everyone to see, yet you're going to try confession through projection on me?
Taking down oil pipelines is very illegal. Profiting from it is illegal. However as you obviously are not aware, authorities recovered all the money:
https://www.npr.org/2021/06/08/1004223000/how-a-new-team-of-…Authorities got the private keys of the people involved. They followed the money and were able to recover all of it because of how it's public. Your example of why it's causing crime is actually an example of why it's so easy to find the money and recover it. Maybe you are doing this on purpose to con criminals to using it so they will be found faster?
In regards to legislation unmasking accounts - I don't think you understand how decentralisation works. Private wallets require money to be sent to a public exchange wallet to actually cash it out. Wallets on exchanges are all public and demasked already. Anyone in Australia (and most places in the world) who wants to cash out BTC or any other crypto already has their wallet as public to the exchange, taxman and authorities. It's much easier for authorities to track than cash, yet you're not crusading against cash money? Criminals have been using cash for ages and it can be buried or laundered a lot easier than crypto can, as crypto leaves a public paper trail.
You can't cash out real money if you don't have an exchange account. Criminals if getting money in BTC still have to send it from their private wallet to their unmasked exchange wallet to cash it out to buy anything. Cash on the otherhand can be taken from proceeds of a crime and spent straight away of groceries without any trail at all. Criminals are not going to all of a sudden have their wallets not on exchanges unmasked by legislation, because there is no way to do that in a decentralized system apart from authorities actually investigating them and seizing - which we already do. That was how they found the oil pipeline hackers, because of the trail crypto left.
My story has been straight from the get go buddy. You seem to be constantly looking for strawman arguments that it's used by criminals and I've given very clear reasons why it's a terrible way of laundering money - you will be caught and you won't be able to cash it out without raising alarms. Your prime example of the oil pipeline randsomware attack turned out to be the exact point I've been making.
The only thing you have wrote so far that makes sense is "I don't understand".
It's all a ploy by the CCP drive the price down to nothing, only to purchase all of it at a cheap price and sell it.
Classic shifty Cnts pumping and dumping crypto currency at the expense of all other investors.I know there's comments here about china banning it therefore it's good, the government unable to control it, taxation etc. Now corruption, poor spending and power aside, we can't deny taxation is actually important for schools, roads, and medical care (right? America has shown exactly what healthcare would look like otherwise). Is crypto becoming mainstream an actual threat to this? Secondly, isn't one of the main reasons our economy didn't go to shit is because the US and Aus was able to print money and provide stuff like JobSeeker, how would crypto help in situations like this? Would governments be able to control inflation? I know people have said decentralized is good BECAUSE it isn't government controlled but is this actually better?
It always amuses me how crypto fans who lose money through scams or rugpulls run to government authorities seeking a remedy. 'Get my crypto back! I've been ripped off!' Wait… you shunned the fiat money system run by the government and bypassed taxes, but now want taxpayer funded police to go running after the crypto you lost? No, no way.
Code is law. Diamond hands. Not your keys, not your crypto. Words to live by. Few understand.
yeah I'm not trying to be pro or anti crypto, just trying to understand what widespread adoption looks like. I know people say it's not just for criminal use but why would I use it other than trying to profit off hype?
Actually using a blockchain to take illicit payments is prob the stupidest thing you can do. It's all there in public view and recorded forever.
Not sure about how much you know, but I think the usage case is more based on "Smart Contracts" and the blockchain technology, believe it or not even the Australian government uses blockchain (not crypto: to be clear)
It's all there in public view and recorded forever.
I was told it was anonymous. Well if it shouldn't be used for criminal activity either than I'm even more lost.
Not sure about how much you know, but I think the usage case is more based on "Smart Contracts" and the blockchain technology, believe it or not even the Australian government uses blockchain (not crypto: to be clear)
Not much, I'm sort of aware of how the tech works but not convinced of it's benefit replacing fiat currency even if fiat currency is manipulated by the government.
@[Deactivated]: Well there is some truth to the anonymity, whilst all transactions can be found on most crypto's. The question is who owns the wallet, as KYC (Know Your Customer aka ID verification) has only really been pushed in the last few months.
What your referring to is "store of value". I'm not expert in this matter, but I think it's hard to think of it from the view of an established monetary country like Australia. Perhaps some of your answers could be found in research of El Salvador.
Which brings us to Gold, which is the traditional safe haven for inflation
It's amusing because Bitcoin is mostly pegged against the USD and if the USD collapses it will be pegged against Gold. But who is going to be walking around paying in gold and carry around scales? or perhaps is it possible that people will accept to pay in "digital gold"?
Just some food for thought. But Fiat isn't just going to roll over and die.. BTC I see will just become an alternative payment.
@mskeggs: Sounds simple. But you’d really need to know what your doing not to expose yourself and really be traceless.
Example:
But where are you going to get that XMR? Then what are you going to do with all that XMR? How are you then going to off ramp it into Fiat? Or another cointoken? Without raising the eyes of the Fed?@ballofspam: Buy Monero with your tracked btc. Shuffle around a bit between various Monero wallets you control. Back to BTC, no need to cash out Monero.
@mskeggs: And now that your BTC wallet is being tracked? Or you going to make 1000s of wallets and move everything in minor incitements? I mean you can lead them around in circles but for how long and at what cost.
We are now talking about a very sophisticated criminal network now.
But you are right, you can. But you could do the same with fiat. So to the point it’s only used by criminals you could say the same thing about fiat. Money laundering
@ballofspam: You don’t use the original wallet to accept the payment back from monero. Yes, you likely do want to create a large number of monero wallets to muddy the waters. I understand monero transactions are a pittance in cost, and you might as well script the wallet creation and transaction activity.
So yeah, laundering money does take more effort than ‘none’, but crypto makes it pretty easy.
As for money laundering with fiat, ok, explain how paying my ransomware bill with fiat works, cause it isn’t the same as crypto, is it?
That’s why crypto is increasingly being used for criminal enterprise.
I’m not particularly fussed about somebody sending $50 on the dark web for a couple of pingers, but being able to shift millions when you shut down an oil pipeline is a very strong motivation for law enforcement to oppose crypto.@mskeggs: But can you manage that whole wallet process with no divergence? I mean you can but that’s a a lot of work.
Well I assume no one is demanding bills of fiat like in the movies, obviously some form of wire or digital money. No different to crypto?
XMR = Cayman Islands bank account?
Well there is some truth to the anonymity, whilst all transactions can be found on most crypto's. The question is who owns the wallet, as KYC (Know Your Customer aka ID verification) has only really been pushed in the last few months.
I see, that's interesting. I mean if the government can crack down and get people to pay tax on it then it's plausible
I think it's hard to think of it from the view of an established monetary country like Australia. Perhaps some of your answers could be found in research of El Salvador.
Thanks, I'll have a read. I mean I can see it's uses, I was thinking more replacing Fiat in countries like Aus and if it would pose a tax problem
It's amusing because Bitcoin is mostly pegged against the USD and if the USD collapses it will be pegged against Gold. But who is going to be walking around paying in gold and carry around scales? or perhaps is it possible that people will accept to pay in "digital gold"?
Yeah that's a good point, I guess people feel safer with something more 'tangible' but the concept is almost the same.
Just some food for thought. But Fiat isn't just going to roll over and die.. BTC I see will just become an alternative payment.
well I guess I was thinking more along the lines of why I (as a totally normal person) would do transactions using BTC.
The poll must be rigged. There is no way the results can be 185 (total hodlers) vs 183 (nocoiners).
What do you think it should be
Based on surveys, around 17% to 25 % or 63 to 92 hodlers vs nocoiners.
This is like the 50th ban. How much can they ban something that they already banned before. First few bans didn't work out? Oh wait, you can't ban decentralisation.
Thats some 9head plays, announcing banning it to buy the dip 7 times while holding 1%