Hard Rubbish Fine from Body Corp - Pay or Ask to Reduce Fine?

Liregretmyusername on 23/11/2021 - 22:35

A bit of context I got a dented Marvel Mop bucket and decided to throw it away. Instead of putting in a big rubbish bin in waste room, I decided maybe someone can use this for other things and left it in a waste room floor.

Got caught on CCTV and slapped with $1k fine.

  1. Obtaining CCTV footage - $350.00.
  2. Attending to breach - $242.00.
  3. Removal of hard waste - $100.00.
  4. Penalty for failure to comply with rules - $350.00.

Now I know it's my fault and angry at myself that I should have just dump the bucket in the bin anyway.
Is it worth calling and ask to reduce the fine?

Poll Options

  • 461
    Ask
  • 32
    Pay
Home & Garden

Comments

    • ruddiger7 on 24/11/2021 - 16:43
      +2

      Bodycorp must be a DC fan

    • lousy on 26/11/2021 - 23:27

      Seriously would like to see the bucket

  • saltysalt on 24/11/2021 - 15:34
    +2

    Getting a fine for having a Marvel Bucket = Priceless

  • ireadtermsofuse on 24/11/2021 - 16:09
    +1

    Damn you bucket shakes fist

  • Mrgreenz on 24/11/2021 - 16:14
    +1

    Haha, thats ridiculous.

  • Dreamcast on 24/11/2021 - 16:14
    +3

    As much as what you did absolutely shits me. 1k?? What a freaking joke. I mean where do you even live?

    I love the fact they do something about it, but if it were one of the tenants in my apartment complex, they'd be up for at least 100k.

    Talk about excess?!

    Tell them to get stuffed!

    • iregretmyusername on 24/11/2021 - 17:50
      +3

      Yes I hate myself too now in hindsight. I'm in Melbourne

  • CalmLemons on 24/11/2021 - 17:23
    +4

    That’s ridiculous.

    Just don’t pay it and tell them to fight you in court. The owners corporation committee will not want to risk losing as it will come out of their money whereas honestly what you did cost them nothing. $10 for the person paid to be the building manager to look it up.

    Otherwise go on a ten year payment plan and pay in 5 cent coins. There is no law that says HOW you pay or when you need to pay it.

    It’s a (profanity) bucket. Prissy apartment owners and tenants and owners Corp overlords need to just face the facts and realise they got a shit investment.

  • bobbified on 24/11/2021 - 17:32
    +12

    Whoever thought it was a good idea to initiate an "investigation" to determine who a single bloody bucket belongs to should be shot.

    They might as well have brought in a private forensics company to fingerprint and DNA test the damn bin and then pass on those costs too.

    • pharkurnell on 24/11/2021 - 19:55

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  • JamesJayz on 24/11/2021 - 19:09

    It will get thrown out as it looks like it is deemed a penalty clause.

  • BartholemewH on 24/11/2021 - 20:13
    +4

    How do I go about establishing a Body Corp management company again?

  • jellykingdom on 24/11/2021 - 20:38

    F**k em. Don't pay for that nonsense!

  • ribze1 on 24/11/2021 - 21:12

    Wow that's harsh!

    I know my Strata give warnings, in fact a serial offender wasn't even fined like this.

  • mecusherb on 24/11/2021 - 22:57
    +4

    Charge them $1200 for throwing out the heirloom you misplaced when attending the communal dump.

    • CalmLemons on 25/11/2021 - 21:18

      This is one of the best points.

  • io on 24/11/2021 - 23:04
    +6

    Do not pay. Go to VCAT and dispute it. Unreasonable amount of fine. It is as if a police giving fine is forcing to pay for his car fuel and depreciation, laundry of his uniform as he had to wear it during duty bla bla bla. Those are your cost BC deal with it.

  • RolandWaites on 24/11/2021 - 23:08
    +6

    I don't get it. Surely the person who saw it and took issue with it just.. picked it up and put it in the bin. They didn't need to call to request CCTV footage, nor did it make sense for somebody to be called in to dispose of it.

    Straight to ACA with this one, OP

    • lachhelix on 25/11/2021 - 01:34

      You're right.
      This is a perfect A Current Affair primetime program!

    • lousy on 26/11/2021 - 23:13

      What is Australia coming to …

  • Laurana on 24/11/2021 - 23:11
    +3

    $1k is absolutely ridiculous. Don’t pay it, OP.

  • T1OOO on 24/11/2021 - 23:51
    -3

    More to the story here isn’t there OP?

    Repeat offender huh ?

    No one does this just for a bucket. An email generally goes out. Tennent are just trash when it comes to trash, I’ve tripped over so many plastic bags when people just leave them infront of the doors not by the side when the shoot is busy.

  • ilmenite on 25/11/2021 - 00:02
    +6

    Thank the BC for confirming that they arranged to dispose of your property and request and require that they replace or you will report it as stolen. They saw the bucket, found out whose it was and then removed your property with clear intent to deprive you of it as they made no reasonable attempt to return it or advise you. Ask them for the CCTV footage of the suspected thief taking the bucket and all entry and exit records for the area in question so it can be provided to the police.

  • lachhelix on 25/11/2021 - 01:33
    +2

    Absolutely insane.
    Don't even think about paying it….
    If anything, on principle….
    Sure you did the wrong thing, and if it was a reasonable fine ($100 bucks or so) for leaving your rubbish in the wrong place, then you should definitely pay it to teach yourself a lesson… But a thousand bucks? Get real

  • Assburg on 25/11/2021 - 02:18
    +13

    OP, legally, you can be made to pay damages for their reasonable losses, which could be reasonably foreseen at the time you agreed to the body corporate rules. Key words are reasonable and foreseen. If body corporate one person says to body corporate two person… Hey mate, how much will you charge to remove that bucket? And he replies "farrrrk idk bruz maybe a hundred bux, looks pretty heavy", it would not be considered reasonable.

    They cannot impose any sort of additional penalty on you, and can only seek actual losses incurred as damages. (Paper Reclaim Ltd v Aotearoa International Ltd [2006])

    They should take all reasonable steps to ensure damages are minimal (genuine contract law principle). (The 'Asia Star' [2010] 2)

    Obtaining CCTV footage - $350.00.
    This may be the only justifiable step, to determine who placed the rubbish there. I would expect them to be legally required to produce the invoice for this, them simply checking their cameras does not warrant damages.

    Attending to breach - $242.00.
    Removal of hard waste - $100.00.
    They were able to identify you to issue you a fine, so to minimise damages they are obliged to contact you first.

    Penalty for failure to comply with rules - $350.00.
    This is not a legal term in a contract.

    There may be exceptions if the NSW body corporate act or whatever state you live in has something that empowers body corporates to fine people to maintain order in the building, but if you read the act, and it doesn't empower them to go so far (or, if it uses words like reasonably impose penalties and recover costs).. then cite the cases and tell them you'll be happy to let all the other tenants know their extortion doesn't have legal grounds.

  • Embaloo on 25/11/2021 - 04:29

    Check out ATangk's response above.

  • wozz on 25/11/2021 - 07:44

    When I first read the title I thought it was gonna be a troll post about someone littering and not wanting to pay..
    But those fines are just insane, no way i'd be paying that. $342 to walk up to the bucket and put it in the bin, not a chance, especially if they have someone that does maintenance.

  • screensaver on 25/11/2021 - 08:07
    +6

    Say you wont be paying anything without getting advise first, and you need the so called authority to enforce fine. Call tenants union, also community legal centre.

    • iregretmyusername on 26/11/2021 - 07:43
      +6

      Thanks for this! I've booked to speak to Fitzroy Legal Service.

  • ensanguined on 25/11/2021 - 11:06
    +1

    Literally tell them to go and get f'd.

  • pharkurnell on 25/11/2021 - 11:56

    Has OP had issues with other tenants since moving in?

    The more I read this and think about it, something doesnt make sense… apart from the fine.

    as someone else said, find every single tiny issue and complain about it .

    But first, I'd be looking for elsewhere to live…

    • iregretmyusername on 25/11/2021 - 12:57

      Never had an issue with other tenants as I don't see them often. No gym or common area apart from parking, lobby, mailroom and waste room.

      • lousy on 26/11/2021 - 23:12

        Is this like the 10th time you’ve left hard refuse out ?

    • Krankite on 26/11/2021 - 10:09
      +1

      This one doesn't read like they are targeting an individual, more likely they are targeting any renters since they know they won't get any complaints at the body corp meetings over it.

  • rezok on 25/11/2021 - 12:42
    +7

    LOL

    you left a bucket in a common area and got a $1,000 fine? And they expect you to pay it!

    I WOULD NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS PAY THAT FINE WHAT A RORT!!!!

  • Hangryuman on 25/11/2021 - 14:58
    +5

    'a dented Marvel Mop bucket and decided to throw it away. Instead of putting in a big rubbish bin in waste room, I decided maybe someone can use this for other things and left it in a waste room floor. Got caught on CCTV and slapped with $1k fine'

    short answer - that's not reasonable - take it to tribunal and they'd throw it out, and slap the committee with a 'don't be stupid!'.

    did you get any prior warning ? were there signs all over the place warning of large fines ?

    if not, contact the strata manager and advise them this amount is not reasonable - you weren't aware of such amounts - and you'll take it to VCAT if they try to enforce it (also promise not to do it again - show some 'remorse' - so you don't look like the bad guy)

    they might come back with a counter-offer like $100 - but if you have the time and energy, I'd say no and tell them to either waive it completely or I'll take it to VCAT and ask for costs against the committee for attempting an egregious fine for a frigging bucket left beside, not in the bin.

    Just their strata manager and others preparing for and showing up at VCAT is likely to cost them several hundred dollars at least - and you expect to win, so they'd then have to justify that to their next general meeting - 'Why did you waste that money doing such a stupid thing ? You're voted off the committee!')

    my opinion as a Sydney owner/strata committee member of over 20 years (also owned houses and lived in Brisbane, Melbourne and Canberra) - Melbourne may be slightly different, but I'd still reckon the egregious attempt to fine you $1000 for placing a bucket beside, not in a bin would be laughed out of VCAT.

    I also studied law - the Westminster principle is all about reasonable notice - if you were unaware of such a huge fine, it's not reasonable for them to hit you with it without you having reasonable notice beforehand.

  • DarkOz on 25/11/2021 - 15:40

    Body Corp should be fined for giving you a rubbish fine that is more rubbish than the actual rubbish you illegally but innocently dumped.

    Don't pay. Ask for a lesser fine like $50 - $100? If they refused you should take them on to the next level.

  • Royale with cheese on 25/11/2021 - 15:40
    -4

    Happened to me once when I dropped off a friend at the side of the road in a school zone so he could pick his kid. A guy started taking my car photo. I realised something was wrong. Few weeks later, 2 points and $350 fine for stopping in a no stopping zone. I didn't see a sign at that time so went back. Turns out the council moved it from its original position in 2017 as evident from Google maps to behind a tree. I pleaded my case, no luck however they did cut the tree afterwards after my complains. Paid the fine. Then found out that my car insurance and CTP went up as now I had demerit points. Next year, licence is full cost due to having demerit points. Turned out to be the most expensive 15 seconds of my life. In hindsight, I should have challenged them. I had photos of the tree blocking the sign completely.

    I would suggest it is worth a challenge. You could argue that it was unreasonable and you didn't realise that at that time. However, bear in mind, the tribunal will go with the facts and they may order to cover any additional legal fees. A trap however. Expensive lesson my friend. My sympathy with you. Just pay and move on. Life sucks but it is what it is

  • cunningdrew on 25/11/2021 - 19:35
    +2

    It doesn't cost $100 to dispose of a bucket.

    Pay the $350 and get the CCTV footage, you are due the same materials as them. After seeing footage, out them on the fact that a building staff removed the bucket and placed it in the bin. Ask the staff member if they charged more that day for it or had to work overtime. When they say no, counter sue them for damages on account of mental stress and trauma of having to go through this when it was all kangaroo count with made up expenses.

    Bill them 10k.

  • CalmLemons on 25/11/2021 - 21:16
    +3

    Obtaining CCTV footage - $15
    Attending to breach - $15
    Removal of hard waste - $5 (5% of a $100 bin empty)
    Penalty for failure to comply with rules - $gfurself.

    Ask to speak to the elected members of the owners corporation. They live/own the apartments with you.
    These are the elected members (democracy) at every years meeting.

    The manager elected is just an employee who doesn't care - glorified caretaker.

  • Cave Fire on 25/11/2021 - 21:58

    Don't think they have any authority to force you to pay. Just ignore it. If they want to take it further, the things they made up will be scrutinized. You can ring the cctv company and verify the $350 cost. Guessing they have gotten away with this before and are trying again.

  • furyou on 25/11/2021 - 22:46

    I wonder how enforcible this is. For your reference, I won a court order against a tradie, and they refuse to pay. Yet there's nothing anyone would do. I have to hire someone to do this and that which would cost half the debt. Costs are not pursuable. So for a body corp going against their own, how many hoops and how many $k would they have to spend before even getting to a court order for you to pay? Then the steps to actually make you pay? I doubt they can do anything.

    • eggplant on 26/11/2021 - 14:22
      -2

      Excellent precedent. Next it'll be a fridge, a mattress, {insert charitable piece of furniture of your choice}. It'll be a wonderful dumpster place to live at in no time.

  • PhatChedda on 25/11/2021 - 22:49

    I would just pack my bags and leave

  • clover on 26/11/2021 - 01:19
    +1

    Don’t pay. The fine is ridiculous. If you do, they will just do the same thing to the next person.

  • pharkurnell on 26/11/2021 - 10:19
    +6

    A Current Affair would love this….. you'd get story of the century

  • Yttrium on 26/11/2021 - 11:11
    +4

    easy win at VCAT

    dont give in to this extortion

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 26/11/2021 - 13:20
    +2

    Send the Owners Corp Management an invoice to replace your stolen Marvel Mop Bucket.

  • JPerez on 26/11/2021 - 14:45
    +2

    Those are some over the top pricing for fines. Surely this should be illegal /regulated.

    Obtaining CCTV footage $350?!

    All you need to do are a few mouse clicks.

    Wtf

  • JPerez on 26/11/2021 - 14:49
    +2

    Bring this to the attention of politicians, garbage TV like aca and some lawyers.

    Then get the members of the body Corp to make positive changes to management.

  • yokel on 26/11/2021 - 16:07
    -1

    Why do people think that their garbage can be used by another person? Take responsibility for your waste. Yes it’s a harsh penalty but maybe you will think long and hard about the crap you buy and how you will one day dispose of it.

    • Hangryuman on 26/11/2021 - 16:51
      +1

      reuse is better than recycle

      something that is still good is better than going to landfill

      frugal people like students can furnish their accommodation with stuff put out on the street for others to help themselves to

      in our inner-city complex, I often see on CCTV someone puts stuff on the footpath like furniture, and typically within minutes the next passersby will be picking it over and taking stuff that is any good

      in cases like pretty new washing machines or fridges that look perfectly good and have been put out simply because it was not convenient for (returning overseas?) people to take with them, stuff can be almost fought over

      one day I saw a woman who sat down and commandeered a bunch of good furniture for a couple of hours - she called someone to bring a van to pick it up, and after that she stayed put and shooed away everyone else who looked interested.

      the OP 'got a dented Marvel Mop bucket and decided to throw it away. Instead of putting in a big rubbish bin in waste room, I decided maybe someone can use this for other things and left it in a waste room floor'

      that fits my definition of reuse - better than recycling

      • yokel on 26/11/2021 - 21:39

        I used to see it your way and then I moved into Canterbury Bankstown LGA. Dumping is dumping. Got good stuff to give away? Just use Facebook Marketplace/Gumtree. If it’s any good in my experience it’s gone in 20 mins on a weekend.

  • lousy on 26/11/2021 - 23:10

    Which building is this so we can all avoid it … and tell everyone we know to avoid it ?

  • funnysht on 27/11/2021 - 08:01
    +1

    you should have said Loki made me do it

  • khey on 01/12/2021 - 11:49
    +1

    Contact Anika Legal https://www.anikalegal.com/

    They are free service.

    I was once cleaning my bathroom floors and let the water flow through the drain inside it. The water leaked from the pipe and flow to the apartment underneath. The building manager blamed me for the issue where in fact it was a plumbing issue. I was young and dumb. Never again.

  • chriskq on 01/12/2021 - 13:51

    Whats the latest OP?

    • iregretmyusername on 01/12/2021 - 15:31

      I got two mail in my letterbox about the same exact notice but without the fine.

      I haven't contact them and their website is not running which made me suspicious.

  • crashloaded on 07/12/2021 - 12:18
    +1

    Put the fine back in the mail addressed to body corporate saying "no longer at this address" 😄

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