https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/r3qh1m/the_way_s…
Will this increase the quality of OzBargain posts by new users or will it just be a witch hunt?
What Do You Think of The New Anti-Online Trolling Bill
deme on 28/11/2021 - 13:03
Comments
The smartest devs in the world are working in this industry. It's only a matter of time before they come up with the solution for a permissionless and censorship-resistant social media platform.
They are just in it for the money. If you don't control it then you can't make monopoly profits.
@netjock: Of course, everyone wants to get paid.
There is an unknown number of anon devs roaming the Ether looking for bugs. They do this for free for the benefit of the community.
unknown number of anon devs roaming the Ether looking for bugs
So you'd hope. Or it is just a myth perpetuated to give people hope.
Everyone is just on Twitter and YouTube pumping cryptos.
@netjock: Very few of these people on Twitter and YouTube are devs building blockchain enabled Web3 products. Don't conflate speculators/investors with builders.
@mitchalbrown: Sorry if you don't understand my comment. Not going to explain it. The two sentences are not implying a correlation between the two groups hence they are two separate lines (as in paragraphs).
Decentralize and relocate servers overseas to another jurisdiction out of Australia's new draconian way
https://www.pm.gov.au/media/combatting-online-trolls-and-str…
We're going to be like China soon.
If people can't deal with reality on the internet and need the safety of their cushioned safe-spaces, then just unplug the computer and get the f out of there.
Not people…politicians. As if a normal everyday Joe will have the money to lodge a request via the federal court lol.
This is for the pigs (animal farm) at the top.
Not people
Come on! The richest person on earth is trolling on the internet. Politicians are also people. People captures politicians too.
I'm not sure we're going to be like China soon. I'd personally would like people getting their doors welded to keep them indoors for breaking lock down but it just won't happen. There isn't anywhere near enough money for a police state. China is still doing zero COVID strategy while we've given up.
There are a few politicians (who I will not name for obvious reasons) who don't appear to be human people, or humane.
Glass jaw politicians need a safe space.
They overstepped the line with fixated persons unit, so now roll out this garbage on the weekend. Will be used against the media, scummo doesn't give a shit about women before and nothing has changed. Yet another clanger policy from the net zero policy clown
https://twitter.com/i/status/1464892074084294661
https://twitter.com/i/status/1464803318178279425
says it all doesn't it
A free for all for the liberal nationals and punishment for everyone else
What about denigrating an entire group of detained people a few hundred miles away as paedophiles, on the basis of a "security video" you can't release " to protect privacy" (of the targets??) and in contrast to the observations of 100% of the observers?
Still, I shouldn't cast nastursiums at a sad little snowflake.
Just the start of not being able to say anything negative about politicians and their decisions, or their rorting.
Agreed.
Why would anybody want to be critical of their excellent service?
This pretty much sums it up in a sentence. A law to protect politician's right to lie and prevent probing into their foul behaviour, finances and sleazy deals.
ScoMo is a proven public liar (Macron called him out accurately) so he stands to be protected more than most
Seems convenient for the government, easy way to stop people speaking out about them if you have a differing political opinion. Like the Friendlyjordies and John Barilaro case.
The Hon Bill Dick Short will be happy..
more culture wars from the lnp
snowflakes need a safe place
havent seen a single positive influence from the lnp 3 pms down the line
if the lnp get voted in again then australia deserves the very worst
Im not worried at all, just watched the video then , the way ScoMo is smirking in the background, i know for sure they are just Trolling us
This is protection for the government (politicians). For us individuals to take it to the federal court cost huge sums of money. Not for pollies using tax payer money.
Both liberals and Labor will say yes to this, and i reckon we'll be poorer for it.
If they want to push this, then bring on federal icac.
also understand why the LNP wants to use taxpayers money to fund defamation cases with politicians
also understand why Christian Porter has a $1 mil. legal defence fund from sources unknown
why does the AG have an unknown benefactor?
does that shit even fly in China or Russia? and yet its ok here?
Why do people think a federal ICAC will do anything?
Remember a guy called Eddie Obeid?
The most corrupt member of Parliament in the History of Australia?
Did we have a (powerful) ICAC while he was a serving member? Please remind me?In the Federal parliament, for the most part, if people are accused of doing something wrong, they almost always (usually quickly) resign on all side of Parliament (lib/alp).
I would argue that Sam Dastyari was almost an anomaly in the fact he didn't have to reign immediately (poor old bill liked him), but one more screw up meant he was gone (almost no matter the circumstances), as so when that occurred he was gone.
We didn't need an investigation, he was just gone.
(and if its not illegal, then the Politicians Win they will claim vindication, even if its morally odious).With an ICAC, politicians will stay on until the investigation has finished. Meaning they earn more tax payer money and can keep lobbying 'mates'/party, etc. They can keep their corruption going.
And its even worse if they are innocent or the conduct is Not illegal - then they can claim they are vindicated and stay on longer.Resignation (and immediate removal of the problem) is the best solution, and then we can let the AFP/Courts charge where appropriate (like Craig Thompson).
Additionally remember the bottle of wine and Barry O'Farrell, where O'Farrell was so influenced by the gift of wine that he couldn't even remember it or who gave it to him, and then as he couldn't literally remember it he had to resign, even when ICAC stated that there was zero intention to deceive.
Resignation is a much more powerful option, and without a federal ICAC don't have to rely on the difference of whether its legally right or morally right.
What would you propose? Obeid has come unstuck eventually.
I propose the current standard - which is to resign immediately - and which what happens now.
Not wait 12-18 months for an ICAC investigation while getting taxpayer $ and then resign.
Or do you agree they should hang on for as long as possible?
People tell me Scott Morrison has promised an anti-trolling bill. It's apparently arriving on four water bombers and will be delivered after the right to discriminate if you belong to the right fairy-tale club is passed at the celebrations for the 2019 budget surplus.
Tell me, is there an election coming?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Australian_federal_electi…
The 2022 Australian federal election will be held on or before 21 May 2022 to elect members of the 47th Parliament of Australia.
You can not remain anonymous online
But
You can remain anonymous if receiving a million dollar blind trust
There will be a two tiered system
Only the liberal nationals will be allowed to troll
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/apr/06/liber…
This is purely for politicians, not for the average people.
Notice how the Libs/Nats have been on a defamation suing spree?
- Dutton
- Barilaro
- Christian Porter
etc
pARTy of FRee SpEech
Peter Dutton is a momma’s boy.
former QLD cop who has more than 10 investment properties… and he was close (sort of) to being PM
and still has designs on being PM
think of an Australia with this potato as PM
As a young copper, he pranged a patrol car into a house and lost his nerve to drive.
Surprised he can breathe and do anything at the same time!Is Dutton a real person? I thought he was a CG representation of all your nightmares coming true
I look forward to watching this legistlation fall on it's face when the first person they try to sue is a bot operating out of North Macedonia :D
it acts a chilling effect (as google would say)
they know they cant do shit with someone out of a Russian troll farm
but they know something like this will put the wind into the next Jordan Shanks… they care about a compliant respectful guilible populace
Yeah i do agree with you there…
A lot of people on ozbargains talk down crypto and decentralisation but when you look at some of the protocols being developed out there that will facilitate immutable platforms that run autonomously all matters of discourse will probably go there and there is even little the government can do about that.
The government will always be 10 steps behind technology…
Not true.
The government has an army on their side, and legislation in their pockets. They can make the likes of NBN, Telstra, Optus, and Vodafone simply block access to those sites.Sure, it won't stop everyone but it would greatly affect the friction of accessing those de-centralised platforms. And that's what (some?) politicians want… slow info spread, control the narrative, have obedient populace who are not-necessarily educated critical thinkers.
@Kangal: Thats not really how decentralised protocols and applications work… these are maintained by thousands of nodes around the world. even if they tried to block DNS which is essentially how they tried to block pirate bay etc, these protocols would move to a decentralised addressing system like ENS. All operation take place on a public blockchain that the government simply can have no control or influence over.
I doubt they have an army of people smart enough to put a lid on these decentralisation platforms after they spent years stripping funding from research institutes like CSIRO and jacked up the price of education.
Anyway… This is whats happening now, it's being built for far more oppressed people than us and if it can circumvent their bans than ours will be a walk in the park.
@mitchalbrown: well they did a decent job with Rarbg and others they dont like
if it deters a lot of people then they succeeded
also remember they have murdoch as their press wing
@tonyjzx: It wasn't the government shutting down the DNS records that lead to a decrease in illegal downloading. The improved accessability of this content was what really stopped it. Torrenting sites still exist for those who know what they are doing. for the rest… the industry pulled it's head in and created better distribution methods that actually served it's customers better and therefore made the need to download content redundant.
@Kangal: The smartest devs in the industry don't work for the feds. They're buidling the future of the Internet from the comfort of their homes while getting paid by private businesses and/or freelancing.
The feds and big MNC have no chance at catching up with innovation.
@rektrading: That's true.
But if they make it hard to access them, then they essentially won.For instance, I see the same thing happening with crypto; if it begins to threaten the nation's currency, they will make it illegal, have high fines and jail time, and block exchanges. They don't have to take down the crypto or the site directly, they can block access to it from other means, and if that's not plausible, they will simply punish their citizens for disobedience.
Don't underestimate people in power. Eureka Stockade taught us this.
@Kangal: Here is the 2021 list of countries where Bitcoin is legal and illegal.
https://cryptonews.com/guides/countries-in-which-bitcoin-is-…
Note how the countries that ban it are backwater crapholes while those that embrace it understand there is money to be made in this industry.
Smart countries don't ban. They tax it.
Don't underestimate people in power. Eureka Stockade taught us this.
Didn't the Eureka Stockade event play a huge part in the development of liberal democracy in Australia?
The rebellion of miners at Eureka Stockade is a key event in the development of Australia’s representational structures and attitudes towards democracy and egalitarianism.
Are you suggesting the more the powers suppress us the better the resulting revolution and outcome will be? if so - i completely agree with you here… governments will try to shut down crypto but the egalitarian ideals of decentralised financial soveriegnty is too strong an idea for their agression to overcome and will lead to a far more progressive society.
The whole point of this supposed legislation is purely to distract from the poor performance of the LNP?
With a compliant media, do they even need to distract anyone?
i dont think they are competant enough to run campaigns as distractions
would you consider the religious discrimination bill a distraction?
no, its just more of their culture wars
if you're a pentecostal nee hillsong type church then you're in the govts. purvue
Distractions in that it is unlikely the bills will be passed, given the limited sitting days before the next election.
The religious discrimination bill in particular has been identified as fully of holes and very poorly drafted. Even if it was intended to be pushed, it would need an extensive re-draft.Meanwhile, ICAC……..
The LNP were offered the opportunity to table that today, and did not accept the offer.@GG57: they blamed Labor for it not passing lol
i think the LNP know they're going to lose the next election so they're passing whatever nonsense while they can before the party is over
and they're betting on labor not bothering to do any followup as a quid pro quo… you dont investigate us, we dont investigate you
@GG57: Was ICAC around during Eddie Obeid?
Did ICAC stop Eddie's corruption?I think forcing instant reignitions is much more effective.
We wouldn't need this legislation and similar 'behavioral' legislation like it if people accepted some personal responsibility for their actions and if it were imposed on those who refused to.
The anonymity of the internet promotes a disinhibition that does not exist in the 'real world' where our identity is not hidden and we are personally accountable for the things we say and do.
Most people are a lot more careful about what they say in a public forum amongst 'real people'. Intimidation, bullying and bad manners are called out in a way they cannot be on online forums.
The simple solution is to strip way the anonymity on the internet to allow the same personal accountability that exists in the 'real world' among real people.
If you doubt this then just consider the difference between people complaining about restaurants in person and the number complaining online.
Everyone should have the right to speak out about whatever is bothering or worrying them but they should be prepared to stand by what they say and accept responsibility for it.
The anonymity of the internet promotes a disinhibition that does not exist in the 'real world' where our identity is not hidden and we are personally accountable for the things we say and do.
Do you really think someone calling you retarded online warrants even a second thought?
Fantastic. Great move. well done Angus
Can you show me where you got the mysterious doctored documents to attack Clover Moore
"I was hacked" said Christopher Pyne for liking homosexual pictures
Liberal MP Andrew Laming created dozens of Facebook pages to promote LNP and attack opponents but you wont be allowed any Internets until you are colour coded and identified
"accept responsibility for it."
Its words,
If you don't like it, move your mouse and go to a different website.
I got banned from ozbargain for trolling a few times. I do not mind the bill as I am a true person only statement my facts from my knowledge. If people can correct me, it will be good.
Should you be announcing this sort of thing?
The thing I find frustrating is they don't actually seem to understand what the word trolling means. Hint: attacking someone online is NOT trolling.
It's basically terrorism now.
yep, I know words morph over time, but trolling always had a very specific meaning. Trolling was baiting people with provocative statements in order to get them riled up and ranting, it isn't about attacking someone..
I agree with you, but today doing that is basically the same thing as an IED.
Trolling is why the internet exists.
Are you saying we can't use the internet anymore.
Facebook, Twitter etc will probably just disable any Australian from commenting or receiving any comments. At least publicly, messages to your friends list might still be ok.
The internet was better when everyone was anonymous.
In the good old days no one used their real name or identity for anything ever
No one got harassed or defamed online because no one knew who anyone else was in the first place.
That was only because we didn't have the spare bandwidth, posting an abusive comment would have stolen bandwidth from my porn download or interrupted my MUD.
Sadly we live in a world where the minor population can ruin things for everyone else. Although it would be nice to be rid of trolls, it comes at the expense of potential poor oversight, privacy abuse and random 'disappearances' due to leaked information to governments via personnel who might be persuaded to leak information.
The internet is hardly ruined.
The government can then decide what is and is not trolling, and jail those found guilty accordingly.
I wonder what is the level of proof required for a guilty verdict.
So it’s a good bill, any opposition could probably be called a troll and silenced.
Many of you are confused about the effect of this proposed legislation.
It was a recent High Court decision that made anyone who operates a forum on the internet legally responsible if anyone posts anything defamatory on their forum. That court decision has made it potentially very expensive to operate a forum unless you refer ever posting to a lawyer.
This legislation will actually let the person operating the forum OFF the hook if they can identify the poster by having required them to register and provide contact details. Their real name. An email address at which they can be contacted. A phone number at which they can be contacted. If someone makes a complaint about a posting the operator of the forum will first have to ask the poster to remove the posting. If the poster refuses, or the complainant is not satisfied with that, the forum operator must provide that contact info to the complainant so they can pursue legal action.
The requirement to provide contact details will not be retrospective. It only applies to accounts opened after the law comes into effect. You will be able to stay anonymous by having and providing an overseas email account that Australian courts can't require the ISP to provide a name and address for. To protect themselves from people providing false phone numbers forum operators could send an SMS to the phone number, and require that to be input before the account goes operative. But they can only do that for a mobile phone number. So its a matter of what forum operators choose to do to ensure they have true contact information.
Isn’t it crazy that the poster isn’t held accountable in that decision? It defies belief. I haven’t looked at it closely but at first glance it seems nuts.
Australia's High Court has made crazy decisions before.
Some years ago an Australian businessman sued the publisher of a US business web site for libel for writing a negative assessment of his Australian business. So it was a review published in the US, where there is a constitutionally guaranteed freedom of speech, by a US company. It was completely legal to do that there. But because it was able to be read over the internet in Australia the Australian judges decided it was legally libel able to be punished here.
It completely destroys the operation of the internet if every country can require anything put on the internet in another country to not contravene the law in their country. Imagine if, say, China started prosecuting Australian media outlets for putting stories on the internet in Australia that said unflattering things about China. There'd be outrage.
That was NOT the high court decision at all. The decision was the publishing bodies would be held accountable when publishing to a forum and then permitting comments without moderation, e.g. a newspaper or media outlet publishing a story and inviting comment. However some of the media (who surprise surprise were the most likely affected) twisted the narrative to say it was anyone that was publishing or chatting on a forum
Hopefully we revert to the 90's where it was considered proper dumb to use your real name on the internet because you will get bent over, and everyone will use vpns.
It's a bad bill from the so called party of freedom.
There's no need for any extra laws when it comes to this - we have enough as it is - too many in fact.
I'm of the opinion that as long as you're not advocating and/or condoning violence or urging the commitment of a crime, you should be able to say or write whatever you like. It's not for the government to rule on this - society is capable of policing itself. Government is already too deeply involved in our lives - and these kind of laws just further that.
It's a giant nothing burger. The most persistent ones always use vpns and keep creating troll accounts until your heart's content.
Just wait till we find the pollies Tinder accounts.
Or grinder…
I think they're trolling us
I think the government need to consult IT people before they waste tax payers money on things that won't work.
Remember the internet filter they put in place?
It's a "gag" bill designed to prevent free speech in the political arena.
The consequences of this bill are likely to be that trolling activity will increase as anonymity is easy to obtain, but genuine questioning of politician's speech and behaviour is going to be gagged.Moderator in this website always act on complaint before the bill was passed.
Sounds to me like Scotty's real taken the Engadine maccas incident to heart 🙃
https://junkee.com/scott-morrison-engadine-maccas-mcdonalds/…
i feel sorry for that branch
they should put up a bronze plaque
"on this day an esteemed PM shat his dacks and did the duck walk back to his company car"
If you ain't got the balls to say it to someone's face, you shouldn't be allowed to anonymously say it online
Use VPN, burner email, burner phone, and other fake details to make a truly anon account.
Troll yourself.
Request unmasking of the troll from the host.
When they fail to identify the troll, then sue the host.
Profit.
Elon Musk is going to Tweet about not knowing that ScoMo was still alive.
Making a law against getting hurt feelings (if that is what this is) is ridiculous.
It's more than that, this is a law against anonymity.
Dutton desperate to hunt down those who liken him to a potato
the CCP did that
good luck going against them
Sounds like we need to join a crypto social platform. No one owns it. No tracking. Full anonymity.
For rich Liberal's to force the silence of people who disagree with them, by threatening legal action…. knowing full well that post internet users will just capitulate to avoid the cost of litigation.
Litigation mind you that will be free under the public purse, for ANY politician who feels slighted by online chat. This has NOTHING to do with bullies. This has EVERYTHING to do with the LNP wishing to not be held to account for all their corruption over the last 8 years. No Federal ICAC, but more powers to religious groups and right wing nutjobs with deep pockets.
Bring on the election, this is going to be a blood bath (hence all the city Liberal's all of a sudden either growing a spine, or going Independent).
you see how they want to entrench power amongst their clan their religion their media group their business interests their lobbyists but they want the weakest to suffer… you see the LGBT, the ones on centrelink ndis, those with cancer…
from a guy who danced a 'jig' when a multi billion oil gas project was passed
is this normal??
would anyone do this unless you had a stake in it?
For a big government that purports to be about small government, it appears that the 'small' is only allowed if you're a rich pollie or one of their tax-revenue grifting mates…
I think I'm out of a job.
@netjock: There are no smart contracts on the Bitcoin L1.
Ethereum 2.0 isn't ready.
That leaves Solana, Polygon, Harmony and the Lightning network. All of these have fast and cheap Tx.
There is also Cosmos IBC, Polkadot/Kusama, Pulse Chain and Cardano that are being developed, testnet or ready to launch.
The smartest devs in the world are working in this industry. It's only a matter of time before they come up with the solution for a permissionless and censorship-resistant social media platform.