This was posted 12 years 1 month 3 days ago, and might be an out-dated deal.

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Dick Smith Games Clearance Sale

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As if Harvery Normans Game sale wasnt enough, this one could be bigger!

Dick Smith are apparently getting out of the games market so they are selling off all stock.
Starts Monday 2 April

See below for more info

http://www.ecogamer.com.au/dsearticle.html

http://i.imgur.com/hWkCP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/r2kfb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/zRl7u.jpg

http://www.vooks.net/story-20776-Dick-Smith-to-cease-selling…

Mod: Don't forget 20% cashback on xbox products.

Mod 2: Commenting on this deal is now closed. Please use this forum topic if you still wish to discuss DickSmith's game clearance of April 2012.

Related Stores

Dick Smith / Kogan
Dick Smith / Kogan
Marketplace
ecogamer.com.au
ecogamer.com.au

closed Comments

        • +1

          I wonder how many of those who negged the mod above^ realise that mods have visibility to see who casted the negs..

        • +3

          I'm actually extremely impressed that the mods are doing their job by actually going through the negatives. There are a LOT.

  • +2

    I hope consumers can vote with their feet and avoid DSE so management learn their lesson.

    • You mean with their wallets.

      • +2

        I think he means that whoever dreamed this "sale" up needs a swift kick to the head.

  • +4

    I had my heart set on getting a DSi.
    Turns out the manager reserved all of them for himself. (at least 3)
    Real bummer. Although one of the staff members apologized for it, which was nice. Still pretty disappointed.

    I got there at around 8:41, there was a massive queue, about 140 people. I was really peeved, didn't really expect anyone. Waited the 20 minutes, had about another 50 people in the queue behind me.
    When I got in, couldn't see much, because everyone was huddled around the aisles and not moving very much.
    I managed to grab some stuff though, got the stuff people who got there earlier didn't want. Some Move games and PSP games.
    Everyone queued up at the register, I couldn't really be stuffed waiting in the queue straight away so I had a bit of a search. Not much left, but I got an unmarked item that I'm really happy with. Everyone ignored it because it didn't have any sticker or anything.

    I hung around for a bit, asked if they were gonna bring out more games, and they did upon my request.
    by this time, only about 10 people were still hanging around.
    Got some real nice games from that batch, and so did some other people.
    They brought out tonnes, wasn't organized very well that they weren't brought out earlier.

    In the end, I got most of the games/things I wanted to get, so I'm pretty happy.

    Swag! http://oi43.tinypic.com/9fy2iq.jpg

    • +1

      looks like all junk games. lol. except pokemon. thats a big score

      • +2

        LA Noire - Junk?

        Have you played it?

    • +1

      Which store was this?

    • Pokemon + LA Noire are decent

  • Hey guys, I managed to get a black DSI from doncaster. =) BUT, I was planning to use it to browse the web (I don;t play games) and I am finding it quite slowwww. =( Is there anyway to update the firmware for opera or sumthing?

    • +1

      Lucky you. I arrived at the Doncaster DSE at 10~ and the DSE at Doncaster Pines SC at 10:30 but out of stock.

      I don't know anything about the firmware's, but have fun with your new toy!

    • +13

      I think you bought the wrong product for browsing the web.

  • +3

    I think the definition of 'Personal attack' is becoming a little loose, but hey, your site, your rules.
    It would be nice, however, to see a rep come back and explain the situation. They can hardly disprove it, because an idiot I know just posted on Facebook about 'scoring' all this stuff. Disgusting…

  • Look like this post will get the most negg votes ever… 353 and counting..:( OP did nothing wrong but tried to share a deal… lucky i did not get out of bed early this morning(and today is my day off)

    • votes shouldn't be personal. It was just a dud deal. Plain and simple.

    • I don't know where people get the idea that negative votes are some sort of attack on the person who posted it.

  • +7

    got a fitness startup kit $1, Memorex racing wheel $1, Memorex nunchuck $2 each x3, Memorex wiimote $2 each (x3), Star Wars-Force unleashed 2 $5, Avatar $5, Harry Potter $5, Lost Planet 2 $2, Dreamcast classics $5, Red Faction $5, Super Mario Galaxy $15… quite happy with that haul… took four Dicks

    • +1

      Good onya now wait for the ferals to give you a neg because you got off your arse and looked instead of whinging that the website was shutdown.

      • +3

        He got the stuff no one else touched with a 10ft pole. What are you on about mate? Weekend casual?

  • +2

    i am so depressed!!!

    • +7

      Seriously, no need, I would rather work for 3 hours, earning money so I can go on a REAL spending spree. Rather than having to scavenger around stores for low stock items on clearance and wasting time and not having fun. =D

      • +5

        Your on the wrong site then mate!

  • Chaos and minima stocks…"fun" day

  • +1

    Meh, what more could I say? I think everyone summed it up pretty nicely. I'm just disgusted at their staff who decided to eBay those items and the deceitful social media advertising "leaked" by an "anonymous" user. Dick smith you better just remember next year if there's another similar sale you should do it on April fools not a day later.

    • +10

      Hey you're post isn't about hating DSE! Downvote!

    • +10

      The voting on OZBargain is generally not very consistent nowadays. People tend to be quite harsh on the comments and usually more forgiving on deals. This is the first time lots of people voted negative on a deal.

      The negative votes are not against the OP, but more DSE. The main reason why there is so many negative votes is to let DSE know they did not organise this special discount properly.

      1. If they intended to let staff have the first dip on the specials, they should have let them do that before they officially announce the deal.
      2. Having so many items on the list, but hardly any available to the customers is not a good way to do business nowadays.

      Perhaps the end result is harsh, but I think it sends a clear message to DSE (and hopefully other retailers will make sure similiar things will not happen again).

      It is only 1 deal anyway…. Relax.. if DSE came up with another cool deal (e.g. Eneloop batteries or some other crazy deal), people will still buy.

    • +51

      So you are so off-base it's not even funny.

      Typical tl;dr post from someone who's eager to claim the high moral ground for e-peen points.

      No one has once, throughout the entire thread directly blamed the OP, so can it.

      You claim DSE staff grabbed all the good stuff? Front up with your evidence.

      What is this the inquisition? You're going to take the word of a corporate bloodsucker over a group of people who have nothing to gain by besmirching some company's reputation and were more than willing to spend money at their store?

      You honestly place any amount of stock in the retailer who was caught selling 2nd-hand goods as new?
      http://www.news.com.au/technology/dick-smith-busted-outrage-…
      You have my condolences.

      The onus is on Dick Smith to prove us otherwise; we're consumers with an internet connection, they're the multi-million dollar chain who's trying to salvage what's left of their brand image and reorganise themselves to be competitive.
      Customer loyalty's a good place to start.

      This thread has turned into a complain-a-thon because people didn't get to save a few bucks, and have turned into ten-year-old versions of themselves.

      No, it's because Dick Smith knew beforehand they had neither the stock nor the inclination to deal with the unexpected response but went ahead and announced a "grand sale" anyway, freely allowed staff to cherry-pick anything of value and due to sheer incompetence or simple laziness didn't even discount half their stock anyway, feigned ignorance that the sale was even on or simply physically prohibited customers from purchasing certain items.

      In what way does that resemble a sale as any layman understands it?

      but the attitude in this thread, starting even before the sale began, has been one of "I deserve…". Well no you don't.

      We deserve the truth. That's a legal minimum. If your staff hauled off with most of the merch, and you haven't even actually updated your inventory to reflect sale prices by the time stores are opening…

      CANCEL THE FRIGGIN' SALE. It's that easy.

      And watch this particular comment get negged to death:).

      Oh look at you… a real-life martyr for fairness and accuracy in reporting.
      Do you want your Pulitzer prize now? How about a Victoria Cross?

      what you've done about it rather than just venting.

      This is a bargain hunting site. Not a political activism convention. Where the heck do you get the nerve to tell people to go out and physically protest something when you're sitting there after school/uni trolling people who were genuinely disenfranchised by a friggin' lazy, inept, joke of a retailer who is going down the tubes because of a history of sheer douchebaggery?

      • +7

        Serious contender for post of the thread - which is saying something in a thread this long!

      • +12

        I POSTED MY EVIDENCE THREE TIMES IN THIS THREAD.

        A video of staff in store purchasing the items before they opened the door and then a photo of them putting a sign on the door saying sorry we are sold out of consoles!

        Three times i received massive negatives and my post disappeared.

        • +1

          can you please email me link to the video

        • +1

          can u send me the link to the video?

          thanks

      • For what it's worth the (very nice) DSE employee at the Maitland store said "yeah all the staff bought most of the stock yesterday" to me (at about 9:30am).

        I ended up with
        The Witcher 2 Collectors PCDVD $15
        Hawx 2 Xbox * 2 $10 total
        LA Noire Xbox $5
        Mafia 2 Xbox $5
        Fable 3 Xbox $5
        PS3 Avatar $5
        PS3 Assassin's Creed 2 $15

        No consoles though. Oh well.

        PS. The one thing that really irritated me was there was a bunch of stock that was on the list in store that wasn't marked down. Especially Wiis. There was a lot, but they were all regular price.

      • You were genuinely disenfranchised by a retailer because you couldn't get some cheap games?

        Classic white whine :D

    • Was plenty of stuff at my local DSE that could stand alone as a deal with plenty of pos votes. Wii wireless acessories for $2,lots of games for $5, still there after the store had cleared out. Sale was genuine from my perspective. Was the leaked list ever confirmed by DSE. Could have been better handled, perhaps it was a rush job and it really was meant to start next week.

    • +3

      so you mouth off on this website

      Sure, why not. What are online forums for if not for the open exchange of ideas, opinions and experiences, even if they might happen to be negative or unpleasant?

      and neg the deal?

      Quite right, that's why the red minus sign clicky thing is there, for deals that people aren't happy with, irrespective of how well-intentioned the person posting it may have been. What did you think it was for?

      If you have a problem, go to the people who can fix it

      The pro-active sentiments are noble, but people still have a right to express dissatisfaction if what eventuated fell short of what was advertised.

      This isn't about people not getting what they wanted; it's about a large, well-established and experienced company failing to meet its obligations.

    • +6

      Lots of people didn't get what they wanted, but don't blame the OP for that.

      No one is blaming the OP. The neg button is not a "F*ck you OP" button.

      • You're correct. The neg button has a few rules surrounding its use. Some of the (currently) 363 negative voters may wish to read up on this site's rules, at http://www.ozbargain.com.au/wiki/help:voting_guidelines. To quote sparingly:

        "Please do not vote negative just because a deal is sold out. If the title of a deal needs to be updated to reflect the deal no longer available, please use the REPORT link instead for mods to update the deal. Negative votes made for this reason will be revoked by mods."

        "IF a poster gets more than two negative votes the system, locks them out of posting again for 5 days. Is your negative a repeat of someone else's negative and would a REPORT be more appropriate - that is it gets the mods to remove the post."

        "Please use negative votes sparingly and always REPORT listing violations to moderators by using the REPORT function, this alerts mods to inappropriate behaviour much faster than your negative vote. And if you feel so inclined still vote negative AND use the REPORT function if its appropriate."

        Finally, I should note "Negative votes do have an impact - new members tend to shy away fearing that their deals may not be good enough. Let the lack of positive votes tell them what appeals without, jumping on them. Also your opinion on what makes a good deal may not fit with the others here, a little encouragement goes a long way to building the information network this site is all about."

        There is a big difference between negative comments and negative votes.

        • +1

          Most of the negative voters seem to be abiding by those rules… Not many voted negative just because the deal was sold out, and I don't think a report would have been any more appropriate.

        • +1

          Most of the negative voters seem to be abiding by those rules

          No…. most of the negative voters are angry, and think that negging this deal (over and over and over again), is like some sort of petition…. that might change the whole way Dick Smith and other large stores go about their business….. which of course it won't….

          There are no warnings in this thread about poor products, or shonky retailers…… just a lot of disappointed children, who didn't get what they wanted….. lashing out the only way they know how

  • +7

    Didn't arrive at my local Dick Smith till after 3pm expecting sweet FA!
    Looked around the shop for 10 mins it had been smashed as I was leaving
    employee brings out a large box of turtle beach headsets
    scored an earforce bravo limited edition MW3 for $40
    right place at the right time I guess

    • +3

      EXACTLY the same thing happened to my brother.

      So we have a MW3 Bravo turtlebeach at home :P

    • +1

      Wow… I am so envious of you right now.

  • +1

    wifey left our local at 5.30 and staff were putting stickers on more stock… guess we have a second chance tomorrow.

    • Cool. Tomorrow morning I have to go to Northland sc(vic) at 10am, maybe I leave a bit earlier and have a look at dick smiths there.

  • +6

    this sale is BULLSHIT!

    i went to the nunawading store at 9am, hundreds of people were already in the store, mobbing everything they could get their hands on. I was specifically after the xbox live for 15 bucks and the 1500 point card for 5 bucks, and sonic generations for 15 bucks. i wait 45 minutes to get to the counter only to be told, 'sorry mate, these are full price, thats gonna come to one hundred something bucks…' and i was absolutely miffed and told him about the CONFIRMED deals on the net and he proceded to tell me 'yeah but we've decided not to honour some of the deals, unfortunately the points card and the xbox live are full price' then i notice a pile of xbox cards behind him on the counter. waste of time, big publicity stunt from DICK HEAD electronics. someone report these chaps to the ACCC, i do it meself but i reckon nothing will become of it.

    anyone else get their deals dishonoured? cos if someone else got the 5 buck 1500 points card, or the xbox live for 15 bucks, then im seriously gonna be pissed off

    • +1

      oh yeah sonic turned out to be 90 bucks as well. needless to say i put that back as well

    • No some items are only on sale from the 11th of April, and Live points are not on sale at all - I didn't know until I went in and there was a piece of A4 paper with small disclaimers saying this, stuck near the counter.

      My guess is that they weren't ready for the OzBargainers and wasn't really organised at all, much less any sort of a sale…..

      • +1

        The new style of Live points weren't on special, the old style are. There was at least 1 of them at DSE Townsville.

      • No. My wife bought 3000 point card for $10. I was told in another store that only old cards are discounted - what does this mean? I only need the points and succesfully redeemed it.

  • +1

    bloody crock of shit..
    xbox 360 controllers marked as $15 on the list…
    scans as $74.95
    what a joke.

    • Only older models are on sale

      • True. The ones that had the grey analog sticks were on sale, not the new one

        • Actually, the specific model that was mentioned was an Xbox controller for Windows..

  • +17

    dickhead electronics. that is all.

  • +3

    At least this thread has kept the mods busy, what a pointless waste of just about everyones time.
    I happened to be passing a Dick store and had a look, about 30 people all looking around aimlessly and not one sale sticker in sight. We are not going to forget this one in a hurry, what a load of bs.
    FFS let this thread get BURIED by the negs as it is clearly a waste of time, and OP seriously?? reporting every neg vote WTF are you serious??!!

  • +2

    Actually F it i revoked my vote
    Just got an email about my order for a couple of 1500 mp cards being amended after i was certain i was one of the first to order it off dse after price updated and it went through the system perfectly. Rang up and it was cancelled which was exactly the same thing that happened for the 1 cent cards.

    Also pissed off that some of the items in the catalogue (red dead, medal of honor, nfs the run) never updated online & brought several games up to the front desk only to discover that for the 2 main items i wanted to buy, they couldn't find the actual discs for.

    Scored a couple of nice games and hope they do another sale but i don't think they could have screwed up anymore with this one. Checked stock levels about an hour before the online sale and was dissapointed that they even bothered listing them to get the hype up considering there was only 3 G90's left & 4 copies of dead island (did the add 5 > update quantities trick until i found the number which would actually let me proceed, rest of the items i checked had no problem adding 5 to cart).

    Went in with low expectations and didn't even meet them, even though i don't shop at Dick Smith's this will make me sure to not do so in the future.

  • +5

    Can I give a NEG for DSE staff and their lack of customer service?
    It's been going downhill for years.

  • +4

    I can't help but think this was just one giant marketing stunt by Dickless Smith. They leaked the list and then confirmed it on their FB page. Can't be accused of "bait and switch" or false advertising, etc since it was not "advertised" only confirmed on social media - went viral.

    Then the suckers at OzB, WP, Ecogamer and other gaming sites fell for it. Brought traffic and gave the opportunity for them to clear out discontinued stock which was cluttering their inventory.

    Oh and negative publicity? Apart from the news.com.au report and the venting on OzB/WP/other forums and their FB the general consumer is going to forget this and move on. Woolworths (the owner of DSE) won't care as they are closing 100 stores soon and selling off the rest - and the sweetener to the buyers - we've gotten rid of millions of dollars worth of excess and discontinued stock for you.

  • -6

    lol haha, heres another footage
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

    • +8

      He sold the stores off to woolies a long time ago, long before the author of that image was born.

  • +6

    I was literally the 2nd one in and saw the staff's list with today price changes and stock levels (took a picture of it as well) and it has 7 WII controllers for sale for AUD 2 each. When I asked where they were, he said some one bought them a day before. lame!@

  • DSE is closing down. No point getting all riled up guys.

  • Sorry to hear everyone had such a bad experience. I went to 3 stores and got a pretty good bag of goodies…

    1 x 3000 point card for $10 (there weren't many because they were the old packaging point cards from out the back)
    Tony Hawk Ride w/ Board for $5
    God of War Collection 2 for $5
    Need for Speed Shift 2 for $5
    LA Noire for $5
    Homefront for $5
    Fable 3 for $5
    Mario Party 8 for $15
    Toy Story 3 for $15
    Avatar for $5
    Dante's Inferno for $5
    Vanquish for $5
    Plus a few more embarrassing purchases.

    I saw a lot of people taking up the new 1500/3000 point cards and being knocked back.

  • Maybeeee, staff were keeping some of the items to sell at a later day? So they have some stock left to sell?

  • KKraig if you're reading this, I recommend getting a new ozbargain account because of all the negatives you have received (althought it's mainly aimed at DSE).

    Unless the mods/admins can adjust your feedback back to normal.

    Good on those that actually managed to get something.

    • +4

      Personally, I would be proud to hold the 'most controversial deal' title!

      • +1

        Most clicks? Negs? Pos? Comments? =)

        • +1

          All of the above!

    • The only effect negs have on the person who posted the deal is that they're locked out of posting new deals for five days, so there's no need to get a new account.

    • +10

      This is the biggest any of my posts have gone, I'll gladly take the title for the "Most Controversial Deal" :D
      I can't take all the credit though, i was just passing on what was posted on Ecogamer which is a great site.

  • +2

    I managed to get

    2x COD MW3 Xbox 360 Bundles - $299ea
    2x MW3 Beach Turtle Headsets - $50ea
    1x Wii Fit Plus Bundle - $129
    1x XBOX 360 250GB HDD - $50
    1x Tony Hawk Skate Board Game - $5
    Logitech G27 - $139
    6x Wii Sport Starter Packs - $1ea
    1x PS3 Wave Charge Dock - $1

    Proof: http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5207/3059771015066101003276…

    • +3

      Why do you have a poster of chilli?

      • +1

        Kitchen.

        YUMAD?

        • +3

          And you keep your goldfish there?

          THIS JUST RAISES FURTHER QUESTIONS

      • +1

        why do u guys go off the side on viewing a picture other than its intended purpose? =)

      • +4

        How does it effect me?

        Was it my fault your suburb did not have approriate staff? low stock? dishonestly?

        No.

        I purchased my items from a suburb that is at the lowest point of Australia. Mt Druitt I'm suprised people weren't pinching them rather than paying.

        simple.

        • +1

          So that's why there was stock…. The locals don't have the money to buy the stuff and nor does the staff.

          (I wonder if that was a little too tongue in cheek)

        • +20

          LOL, exactly, you don't owe anybody squat. certainly not some random on the internet who brings up his 8 yr old daughter (seriously, wtf?) for some sympathy. Your own fault for telling her the deal and promising one in the first place.

    • haha, great post moots. love it cos it stirs up all the whingers. Well done on your collection.

      • +5

        I thought you were a rep…

  • +2
    1. offer huge sale with ridiculous bargains
    2. tell everyone
    3. Make sure there is zero stock, and if there is, let the staff buy it all before the store opens
    4. piss off all your customers!
    5. ???
    6. Profit!

    I could see this coming, i think i mentioned it on the second page.

  • +3

    Can't believe people actually thought they were going to get the DSi's. Come on even a 10 year old would have better common sense then to know that with this many people trying to get one, its going to be crazy hard. Anyways managed to get some good stuff for the Wii(2 Motion controllers, 2 Wireless nunchucks, a quad remote charging bench thing all for two dollars each!), $1 Wii steering wheel which is quite odd and Earforce COD MW3 Foxtrot headset for $30. Pretty happy even though I saw the last DSi get taken away :D

    • +11

      and we are all made of money. Get a life dude, and get off ozbargain you don't deserve to be here anyways.

      /Feed Trolls

    • +6

      Pathetic parent? Promising? Really? You worked all that out from my post? So many anonymous heros on this forum lately.
      There's a difference between me buying her a DS and dumping it in her lap, and her spending her own money on one. You probably wouldn't understand.
      I've got no problem with people doing well from this sale. Good luck to anyone that did bag some bargains. You're proud that you've made a few bucks selling some stuff on ebay? How wonderful for you. If you didn't, someone else would. I just sincerely hope you needed the money more than someone else needed a bargain.

  • Honestly, I rocked up at DSE Knox 10 mins before it opened, just to discover a line up that went around the corner.

    Even before getting there, I was expecting nothing.

    After 2 minutes in store, the tables were bare and only left with piles of "The Adventures of TinTin" and the odd other game, and also a pile of $2 wiimotes+ and wireless nunchucks.

    Since there was such a huge amount of stock of the wii controllers, I thought I would stock up on a couple of each just to have a full collection, but only took multiple due to the fact that there was still ~40 left at that point in time.

    Everything else I obtained, Turtle Beach Ear Force Foxtrot Headset - $30 (the only thing i was really wanting from the sale), FF The Crystal Bearers - $2 (which i bought for a friend), and 2 wiimote+/nunchucks - $8 ($2 each).

    Honestly, the main thing I was dissapointed about was how there were people just shoveling games into baskets, irrespective of doubles or price. I felt like I was in that Simpsons episode where Springfield were preparing for "The Hurricane", and I felt uncomfortable.

    I guess, all I can say now is Congratulations to all who got their items they wanted, but I totally understand why so many people are negging this sale.

  • This was mentioned on Whirlpool. The guy works at North Ryde DSE apparently.

    Got 2 Logitech G27's for his birthday, so needs to sell one, what a coincidence :0

    http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/ryde/accessories/brand-new-se…

    • +1

      I have this urge to send him inquiries with offers of $138.

      • +1

        we should all organize fake offers here and spam him with offers…starting at $30?

  • good on him

  • +5

    some real first world problems in this thread.

    • +4

      Yes go ahead… muddy the argument with hysterically disproportionate comparisons.

      I'm waiting for the Holocaust/Hitler arguments to show up and how there's starving kids in "Insert African Country Here" but we're too busy buying games to care.

      The fact that we were all born in Australia instantaneously voids our consumer rights anytime a sale is on.

      Sounds logical.

      Let me ask you, you presumably live in a thatched-roof dwelling, wear clothes exclusively from Good Sammys, drink rain water and donate to World Vision/Save the Whales/Oxfam/Amnesty International?
      No?
      Then quietly get the hell out and stop pretending to be a humanitarian.

      For all we know you'd choke someone with their grandma's walking frame for the chance to grab a G19 for $40.

      Where have you pro-Capitalist jockeys been hiding all this time? What is this, E-Cronulla?
      Someone sends around a text saying "Zomg bros, DSE under siege on OzBargain; meet up in 20 mins on IRC for retaliatory planning."

      • +3

        "Yes go ahead… muddy the argument with hysterically disproportionate comparisons."

        yeh dude, i just did.

  • -2

    nah didnt need it but hey not gona complain at free money now are ya

  • +3

    I can't say I expected anything different from this whole mess. I drove past Woden DSE in the ACT at 8:45 and I say about 40ppl. Having been in on Friday I knew there wouldn't be much to go around and it would just be a mess, so I kept on driving.

    Personally I can't understand the sheer OUTRAGE as people flail on the ground here wailing and gnashing their teeth. Did you honestly expect that the prospect of such low prices wouldn't attract hundreds and end in shlt fights?

    The thing that has stunned me the most is how ineptly the whole thing was handled by DSE. No co-ordination between stores re: info on the sale, no control of staff buying before customers (personally don't care, but if they are going to have a policy they should stick by it), no consistency on the pricing or labelling, no customer limits on purchases.

    It was pretty much a textbook case of how to f*ck yourself in the face, publicity-wise and they have done themselves much more harm than good. At the moment they need all the help they can get, and this wasn't it.

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