Why is Tax So High in Australia?

[Deactivated] on 01/02/2022 - 09:58
Last edited 01/02/2022 - 09:59

If we earn over $180 thousand a year we have to pay 45% in income tax, Medicare Levy and mandatory Superannuation contributions. Plus the 10% GST on most items we purchase. This is not including other tax luke stamp duty and etc.

We have one of the highest Tax rates in the world yet we don't have free education, Our roads and public transport are in terrible shape and our Hospitals are way understaffed with very long wait times.

I really do wonder why our tax rate is so high and where the money is really going? Because it certainly isn't for education,roads and healthcare.

Financial

Comments

      • burningrage on 01/02/2022 - 21:21
        +1

        This is the problem. Countering an argument by being extremist on the other end.

        Nobody is saying you should be paying 0%. larmesdelhiver is suggesting 30% which is more reasonable. I really love the "go back to where you come from" argument. It's so yesterday and not sure under this Ozb rules whether it is a hate speech?

  • pippohippo on 01/02/2022 - 19:05

    How else will Horrible Harvey and his twin Hardly Normal get paid?! How dare you rob him of his free money

  • dmcneice on 01/02/2022 - 19:53

    It's certainly high, but not the highest in OECD countries. One thing about our system is the top rate kicks in relatively early compared to some of the other high taxing countries.

    Trying to buy a house as someone whose family never owned one is insanely difficult. Work 60 hours/week to get to 180k, then try a weekend job which taxes at 47%, it certainly does disincentivise me to work that extra job as its not "rewarded as much".

    • AustriaBargain on 01/02/2022 - 21:10
      +3

      If you earn 180k a year working full-time hours, that's $87 an hour. 53% of 87 is $46 an hour. If you seriously do not see the incentive of keeping in your wallet $46 per hour of extra work then you've probably got enough money already, maybe too much money and you can afford to be taxed a little more. Most Australians their entire lives will never ever be able to get take-home pay of $46 an hour and would kill to be in that position. 180k puts you close to the 1% of earners in Australia, there's literally not enough land, high paying jobs, or resources for us all to be making that much money even if we all pulled at our bootstraps as hard as we could, even if we were all equally skilled and motivated we couldn't all make 180k a year, it just doesn't work like that in the real world.

      • dmcneice on 01/02/2022 - 22:34
        +2

        Top 1% of income tax contributors you mean. Those statistics mean very little with respect to wealth.

        I wrote i work 60 hours per week (some of that is overtime so paid at a higher rate). If i worked even more in that same job (which I cant because its maxed out for me there) - it would be about $40-50 per hour, then taxed at 47c.

        With median house prices here already at 1.1-1.2m for an "entry level" house, and loans around the 1m mark, around 4-4.5k/month is going on mortgage repayments (or rent which is around 900-950/week) here.

        Sure I could move away, but then id also lose my job, so its a catch 22.

        There is a HUGE difference in those that already own homes, and those who don't.

        If you didnt get in before the boom, then your in for a tough time for the rest of your life. Rent is 1k/week for my family, and will soon to be 4.8k mortgage repayments/month after we move in. With HECS, its an extra 10% on top, so after-tax, rent is almost 50% and for mortage, a bit more.

        • AustriaBargain on 01/02/2022 - 22:47
          +2

          You work 60 hours a week and pull in hundreds of thousands of dollars a year and you complain there's little incentive to work more? It's hardly possible to work more than 60 hours a week, and what need do you even have for more money than you have now?

          Your HECS debt is an interest free loan paid for by the taxpayer which allowed you to have such a high hourly pay in the first place, you're literally only in the position you are now because of the welfare state that provided you the interest free loan in the first place. Do you think any bank would give you an interest free loan? HECs is the best loan you will ever get in your life.

          This is just more pulling the ladder up behind yourself kind of thinking. You have a comparatively massive income which you wouldn't otherwise have without the welfare state paying for your education through the interest free loan, and your response to that is "gee, wouldn't it be swell to end the welfare state so I can pay less taxes and pay off my million dollar home and interest free education sooner". It's a very selfish way to look at a society which has allowed you to be in the position you are in in the first place.

          • pegasusx on 02/02/2022 - 00:55

            @AustriaBargain: I like the welfare component. I do not want to be living in a country where there is a massive gap and a non-existing middle class and its kings and peasants.

          • dmcneice on 02/02/2022 - 06:57
            +1

            @AustriaBargain: No where did i say I wanted to end the welfare state. I agree with you, we are incredibly lucky in this country to have a social safety net, good healthcare and programs such as HECS.

            My point was for ME, once that top tax bracket is reached, hitting 47% plus 10% for hecs to work more than 60 hours becomes a strong disincentive.

            My problem with the tax system is the following:
            -Heavily taxes individual income - my wife can't work due to medical problems, a couple earning the same amount split gets taxed less
            -Far too generous concessions on investments (e.g. negative gearing). - why should wealth accumulated from investment properties be taxed far less than income?
            -Not taking enough from the top companies etc.

            Im not poor anymore, but Im certainly not living like the top 1%.

          • virhlpool on 05/02/2022 - 02:15

            @AustriaBargain:

            and what need do you even have for more money than you have now?

            Didn't the comment already say that the need for more money is to be able to buy a house or afford the ever increasing rent?

  • [Deactivated] on 01/02/2022 - 19:56
    +2

    One of the best quotes "I pay whatever tax I am required to pay under the law, not a penny more, not a penny less… if anybody in this country doesn't minimize their tax they want their heads read because as a government I can tell you you're not spending it that well that we should be donating extra." Kerry Packer

  • serpserpserp on 01/02/2022 - 20:12
    +2

    Someone call the waaahbulance

  • mdavant on 01/02/2022 - 20:38

    The reason is that your taxes go to people who don't need it.

    Eg earning 90k and have a few kids getting tend of thousands of dollars of family tax benefits etc. And going out and buying new cars, iPhones and having holidays on government money.

    Where is the incentive for the middle to increase their income and therefore productivity?

    • nephilim on 01/02/2022 - 22:43

      family tax benefit level is actually really low, if you make more then like 50k you get like 60 a fortnight.
      It doesn't reward anyone working full time above min wage.

      Consumerism and GST covers that anyway, see the people saying they "need" a $1000 pram. Just check the ozbargain baby deals, lot of people refuse hand me downs and want to spend 10,000 on the first year…

      • mdavant on 02/02/2022 - 06:09
        +1

        Absolute rubbish. Check FTA and ftb and the payment rates.

    • mskeggs on 01/02/2022 - 23:34
      +1

      Hard to understand how $180k up thread leaves nothing left after mortgage and groceries, but family tax benefit is enough for new cars.
      Why are the people on a much lower income so adept at budgeting they have all this money?

      • mdavant on 02/02/2022 - 06:08

        They are not, they just spend.

        Buying all those juicy imports with other people's money

  • hasher22 on 01/02/2022 - 20:46

    You said you're on 120k per year, you're doubling the median salary in Australia. You should be living quite a comfortable life, add your partner's salary and you should be doing ok. You're not considered poor here.

    But in saying that with tax, well other people have mentioned it, not going to repeat it.

    • SBOB on 01/02/2022 - 21:06
      +5

      add your partner's salary

      nice burn :)

    • virhlpool on 05/02/2022 - 02:17

      You're not considered poor here.

      With the current prices of houses across major cities ($1.3m for a silly suburban house, more than 25km away from CBD), are you sure your statement is true?

      • hasher22 on 05/02/2022 - 12:27

        Yes my statement is true, she is not poor.

        From memory, a 2019+ census revealed that anyone earning over 100k is in the top 10% of earners in Australia.

        Based on your version of "poor" vs housing prices vs her on 120k, then 90%+ of Australians are "poor" in your eyes. Or what the statistics like to call it, in poverty.

        • virhlpool on 05/02/2022 - 13:02

          Your argument is vague. As per this report (which is old so the current number will be even higher), 67% of Aussies own home. Going back to my comment, how can 90% of them be poor?

          • hasher22 on 05/02/2022 - 13:22

            @virhlpool: You're putting a whole different spin into what I am saying.

            In your original comment, you implied that someone on 120k is poor (cause you contested that I said she is not poor) then gave an example of high housing prices, giving more reason why you think someone is poor on 120k that may not be able to get a "home with the current prices of houses".

            I stuck by my statement and said she is not poor and advised she is in the top 10% earners in Australia from memory on a census.

            Now, going back to your original comment implying that a person on 120k can't afford a home, then saying "are you sure your statement is true?", Then I replied back with "then 90%+ of Australians are "poor" in your eyes". The keyword is 'your'. This is based on your comment alone and the percentage of the top earners in Australia.

            You're coming back to me with irrelevant information, about 67% of Aussies own home, also "how can 90% of them be poor?". I never said 90% are poor as a general blanket statement, I added: "in your eyes" which puts the statistics back on you. Which is based on what you said not based on any national statistics like the one you linked.

            Generally speaking without the high cost of houses, 120k is not poor. My comment is purely about you comparing income to housing pricing and what is considered poor. The median salary in 2021 is $62,400 Employee Earnings. But given what I said about 90% of people earning under 100k, if you think 120k is poor vs buying a home in this current climate, then, yes I can say 90% of people are poor in your eyes.

  • AustriaBargain on 01/02/2022 - 20:58

    If you earn 180k then you only pay 37% marginal tax rate. Your first 18k is absolutely tax free, same as everyone else.

    If you're on 120k then your marginal tax rate goes down to 32.5%, which is remarkably small considering it includes full healthcare.

    • BarginBandit on 01/02/2022 - 22:20
      +1

      Don't lose sight of the other taxes as well, which pump up the real amount of $$ each year that leaves your bank account.

      GST - 10% of goods and services is also taxed.

      Excise on fuel, alchohol and tabacco - also as I understand GST is calculated on the total including the excise cost.

      Then there's Medicare levy, Stamp Duty (Insurance, car purchase, house purchase etc).

      So depending on your situation and what how much you consume of items (eg. Fuel due to long travel/commute daily) you really can get really lose a lot of money each year to tax.

      There's also council rates that are a form of form of property tax.

      Car registration fees go into a fund that pays for Government Services and programs, you could argue it's a form of taxation as well considering how it's used. Same with recreational fishing licenses.

      There's likely a heap more that depend on where you live (levies?).

      The actual out of pocket tax that each person pays can be very high. Income tax is just the starting point. There's three levels of government that put their hands out for some kind of collection that burns a hole in your savings each year. Only after adding them all up do you undertand how much is being taken.

      • surg3on on 02/02/2022 - 18:15
        +1

        Yet when you add ALL OF THESE up we still end up middle of the pack of countries that have actual services

  • Dotaguy on 01/02/2022 - 21:23
    +3

    All the current commentary aside, the tax rate wouldnā€™t really bother me as much if I felt like it was spent well.

    I donā€™t mean we spend too much on public goods and services - I agree that thereā€™s things we should all pay for. But, whatever system itā€™s set up here sucks and thatā€™s a fact.

    If youā€™ve ever worked in the massive public service here itā€™s so cliche itā€™s hilarious. Overpaid public servants, middle/senior management, etc etc. You might find some pockets or areas where maybe the staff are outstanding (ie hospital health professionals) the management are 9/10 times hopeless. How much taxpayer money was wasted during the last two years with covid? Youā€™ll never know. Jobkeeper, government policy and overall a lack of accountability has made a farce out of the whole thing.

    Welfare, aged care, health care - Iā€™m all for it. But paying for the salary of some dipshit paper pusher somewhere in Dhhs or Dpjr who is literally sitting on his arse waiting to be made redundant on a huge govt payout (Iā€™ve met a few) makes me angry every time I see my tax bill at the end of the year.

  • mitt on 01/02/2022 - 21:59
    +3

    Pensions.

    It goes to Pensions. Also aged care/healthcare generally.

    Boomers taking one last bite before they check out.

    They get pensions, we get super. We dont get to expect pensions, so pay up kids.

  • DiscoJango on 01/02/2022 - 22:02
    +1

    Helicopter rides for lunch arent cheap

  • Wiser on 01/02/2022 - 23:26

    When you talk about Healthcare
    Your are not realising the PBS which is not means tested.
    Even a billionaire can get all PBS medication with maximum co payment of 42.50, $6.80 for concession
    On top safety net.
    Some of the PBS medications cost more than
    30000 and you pay 42.50
    Then NDSS and subsidised Diabetic supplies.
    Our PBS is one of the most generous system around

    • burningrage on 04/02/2022 - 08:41

      While this is true, increasingly a lot of PBS medicines are no longer subsidized (ie: costing more than $42.50)

      As an example Betamethasone Dipropionate (particular brand name) max cost used to be $42.50 and now it is $55+ at least.

  • Max P on 01/02/2022 - 23:33

    The way forward is to abolish any tax systems, as in communism there is no money. So in a classless society there is no need for taxation as the productive economy belongs to society, the profit of all business activity also belongs to society. .

    Problem solved

    • pegasusx on 02/02/2022 - 00:52
      +2

      I can came from a Communist country. It doesnt work because there are people in that perfect system.
      If only there weren't people involved and just an idea it would work.

    • Cluster on 02/02/2022 - 09:37
      -1

      Every country that has tried Communism so far had money. There needs to be some form of accounting for how much work was done and by whom, otherwise people would literally walk into a store, grab everything (if it's even available…) and walk out.

      The counter argument to this is usually 'well, we just haven't done Communism right yet' or 'but that wasn't true Communism'. Very clutching at No True Scotsman straws.

  • Poor Ass on 01/02/2022 - 23:48
    +2

    Going toward submarines we don't need

  • pegasusx on 02/02/2022 - 00:50
    +6

    When I hit a 7 figure income I baulked at the PAYG + the Quarterly Pre-tax ATO instalments, the 2 x Medicare Levy, zero subsidies for things like childcare and was taken back.
    First thought was, why work so hard and be rewarded for it. Only to be heavily "penalised".

    Over the years I've changed my position and think of paying high taxes as a indicator of my blessings to have a high income. My view now on high taxes, is more along the lines of a requirement to "up keep" the Australian community that I live in. Reassign some wealth to the lower income earners and have a wider stable middle class. I recall that most of my taxes goto welfare and pensions.

    So its now 55% glass full vs before I was bitter it was 45% empty. Sometimes its just about perspective and being content.

    • T1OOO on 02/02/2022 - 01:02
      -3

      Police
      Army
      Public servants
      Education
      Meds and hospitals

      Take up the lions share check ur tax break down next time.

      • pegasusx on 02/02/2022 - 10:25
        +1

        Social security and welfare is the largest functional expenditure of the Australian Government accounting for just over a third of all Government expenditure. This function includes age pension expenditure, family tax benefits, child care subsidies, JobSeeker payments and the National Disability Insurance Scheme. The social security and welfare expenditure budget brief provides more detail on this expenditure.

        Source

    • mdavant on 02/02/2022 - 10:29
      +2

      I agree that welfare is important.

      Middle class welfare on the other hand is just ridiculous and leads to a poorer community as a whole.

      Happy to debate the last point

    • gromit on 03/02/2022 - 17:12
      +3

      I am similar (though still 6 figures), what I do find galling though is when those benefiting from my tax dollars are complaining that I don't pay enough tax and that they deserve more of my money through even higher taxes while they should be paying even less.

      • mdavant on 04/02/2022 - 08:15
        +2

        You greedy capitalist pigdog with your superyacht and Ferraris.

  • T1OOO on 02/02/2022 - 01:00
    -1

    Quit your widging spare a thought for those of us on over $350k itā€™s brutal hereā€¦ :-(

    • techlead on 02/02/2022 - 11:51

      Spare a thought for people in the millions.

      If I sell my crypto portfolio, I'd be gifting the ATO a very nice house for free. That's even more brutal…T_T

      • qvinto on 03/02/2022 - 13:53

        Just wait a few more months and then sell it. That way you can gift the ATO a very small modest apartment

        • techlead on 03/02/2022 - 14:27
          +1

          Not doing that, I don't want to give the ATO any property. In 5 years, if I sell it, it would most likely be a mansion. That's why I'm never selling it.

          Plus, sell to buy what? There's no better asset, why sell a winner to buy a loser (fiat)?

          • qvinto on 03/02/2022 - 14:37
            +2

            @techlead: Yeah sure, crypto will just continue to go up for ever until we are all millionaires and no one will ever have to work again! /s

            • techlead on 03/02/2022 - 14:45

              @qvinto: There is no price ceiling to crypto because there is no price floor for fiat (currency which has value by decree, eg AUD, USD, GBP, not backed by anything).

              Same as property, I expect property to continue to rise, sky's the limit. I'm not invested in property because the speed of the rise is not as fast as crypto. This has been proven in the last 10 years, if you did a comparison, crypto is a way better investment. Of course, I don't have a crystal ball to know for certain what will happen in the next 10 years, but I expect it to be the same. Property returns will be nothing compared to crypto returns.

              But one thing is certain, if you hold fiat, its a guaranteed loss in purchasing power. Its as certain as taxes and death.

            • mdavant on 04/02/2022 - 08:17
              +1

              @qvinto: Well of course it will because it is backed by solid fundamentals ;)

              • rektrading on 04/02/2022 - 09:08

                @mdavant: It's a network supported by people. From one Satoshi in 2009 to 106M hodlers in 2021.
                https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/how-many-bitcoin-users/

                • mdavant on 04/02/2022 - 09:41

                  @rektrading: Each to their own, but crypto faces similar flaws to fiat. It's rules are not set in stone.

                  Give me an asset I can touch and feel and exists in the real world any time as opposed to pie in the sky electrons in time and space.

                  What is the underlying reason why crypto is worth so much more over the past 2 years (money printing won't cut it as growth in crypto has far outpaced money printing)

                  • rektrading on 04/02/2022 - 09:50

                    @mdavant: Bitcoin's code hasn't changed. It work just as well today as it did when the first block was mined 13Y ago.

                    • mdavant on 04/02/2022 - 11:03

                      @rektrading: What if they double or triple or quadruple the amount of bitcoins available?

                      How many bitcoins in the world?
                      How much has been invested in it?
                      How much is it worth?

                      As it is worth far more than invested, where has that value come from?

                      Increased utility? Or perception of future gains?

                      Or where?

                      • rektrading on 04/02/2022 - 11:05

                        @mdavant: It's impossible to increase the supply of Bitcoin without consensus.

                        You can learn more by reading the free data from the links.
                        https://bitinfocharts.com/bitcoin/
                        https://www.hodlwave.com/

                        There are a lot more detailed data but that is only available by subs.
                        https://messari.io/charts/bitcoin/price

                        • mdavant on 04/02/2022 - 11:30

                          @rektrading: "@mdavant: It's impossible to increase the supply of Bitcoin without consensus"

                          Sure it is ;)

                          • Quantumcat on 04/02/2022 - 15:42

                            @mdavant: It is true. There is a fixed amount of bitcoins that can ever be mined. But as they get closer to that number the work gets harder and harder

                            • mdavant on 04/02/2022 - 17:41

                              @Quantumcat: Unless they change the rules
                              They can change the rules
                              They are only rules.
                              Someone made them, someone can change them

                              • rektrading on 04/02/2022 - 18:24

                                @mdavant: It takes an act of Congress to change the US Constitution. The process can take years and the odds of success is about the same as a person getting hit by lightning in their lifetime.

                                It's impossible to change the #Bitcoin code without consensus. The bar for a change is higher than changing the US Constitution.

                                Many factions have tried and they have all failed miserably. May be someone someday in a 100Y can do.

                                We don't have to worry about it because we'll all be šŸ’€ if it ever happens.

                                • mdavant on 04/02/2022 - 20:37

                                  @rektrading: Well while I am not old, I am not young either

                                  I have seen things too big to fail, fail.
                                  Many rules that could never be broken, broken.
                                  Promises made and broken
                                  Investment darlings dethroned

                                  If bitcoin becomes useable, it can have value, otherwise it is just speculation

                                  It has zero intrinsic value.
                                  It could be replaced overnight as Myspace was by Facebook which is being destroyed by tiktok etc.

                                  Govts will either embrace or destroy bitcoin/etherium or whichever darling is around.

                                  Quality investments on the other hand like farming land will forever be truly limited by reality and will always be worth something, as long as geopolitical forces do not take them from you.

                                  Until then, sure some people have made money in bitcoin, but it is all magicked up at the moment, hence why it is important for a savvy investor to know how much money has actually been paid / the strength of demand Vs so-called value.

                                  I have owned hundreds of thousands of dollars of shares I thought were worth something only to be proven wrong months or years later.

                                  • rektrading on 04/02/2022 - 20:46

                                    @mdavant: Bitcoin went from nothing in 2009 to holding back a $2T spending bill in 2021.

                                    Whatever happens in Australia doesn't affect Bitcoin. Bitcoin doesn't need Australia to grow but Australia needs Bitcoin if they want to use the most reliable and censorship network ever created.

                                    • mdavant on 04/02/2022 - 21:38

                                      @rektrading: I know right, the past 200 or so years we have struggled to achieve anything because we were missing

                                      A very recently developed totally replaceable software product with extremely limited utility wrt transactions

    • dtc on 02/02/2022 - 14:27

      yep, until s293 means something to you, dont bother talking to me

  • Thinkscape on 02/02/2022 - 07:44
    +2

    In 2020-21, Australian Federal and state governments provided a total of $10.3 billion worth of spending and tax breaks to assist fossil fuel industries

    https://australiainstitute.org.au/report/fossil-fuel-subsidiā€¦

  • ipiok on 02/02/2022 - 08:07

    plenty of legal ways to overcome these issues (maybe not morally right)…..

    • Top G on 02/02/2022 - 15:00

      Explain? No way to escape income taxes.

      • rektrading on 02/02/2022 - 16:10

        People that make over $1M per year don't pay income taxes.

        Millionaires who paid no tax and the richest and poorest postcodes revealed
        By business reporters Nassim Khadem and Michael Janda Posted Tue 8 Jun 2021 at 2:42pmTuesday 8 Jun 2021 at 2:42pm, updated Wed 9 Jun 2021 at 4:42am

        Sixty-six millionaires paid no tax in 2018-19, Australia's highest earners continue to live in Sydney's harbourside suburbs, and the country's lowest incomes have been recorded in drought-ravaged central NSW.

        Analysis of the data by the Australia Institute reveals there were 66 Australians who earned more than $1 million in that financial year who did not pay a cent of income tax, compared to 73 the year before.

        • Top G on 02/02/2022 - 19:02
          +2

          Probably business owners if your earning a salary no way to funnel your cash in a way to avoid the tax man

  • foolsgold on 02/02/2022 - 08:10

    it's all about perspective, concentrate on the positives on your life instead of whining, you'll then start looking for solutions

  • Lastchancetosee on 02/02/2022 - 08:10
    +1

    Superannuation contribution is not tax, and on the contrary, it can save paying tax, so shouldn't be lumped in with the others.

  • t0087669 on 02/02/2022 - 09:04

    Is it really worth it to maximise concessional super contribution to minimise taxable income? Letā€™s say really earn 180k but still 20~30 years before retirement

    • surg3on on 02/02/2022 - 09:43

      If you wernt going to have fun with the money then yes.

  • Tooslow9394 on 02/02/2022 - 09:23
    +3

    The way youā€™ve framed your click bait question means that you will never earn $180k to run into that problem.

  • ScoopedAndDuped on 02/02/2022 - 09:27
    +3

    Why wonder Alex, when you can research.

    Below link provides a high-level overview of how federal government spending is distributed. I'm sure you can find more detailed information or breakdowns for spending categories.

    Both state and federal government provides a vast amount of information freely to the public domain.

    https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departā€¦

    Perhaps later you can come back to modify you post and share what you've learnt?

    • surg3on on 02/02/2022 - 09:43

      No because hes a damn troll. Given his username is AlexJones, theres a good chance he idolises the USA radio shock jock who claims school shootings are fake….

  • justaddwater on 02/02/2022 - 09:36

    Have you tried killing the poor?

  • MessyG on 02/02/2022 - 09:53
    +2

    Because our government is corrupt and diverts tax revenue into private entities they have a hand in. Then they play up the 'free market' line, tell everyone taxes are too high and they will set them free with tax cuts. The tax cuts end up being a token amount to keep the masses happy, while they gleefully keep diverting billions of our tax money into their own interests.

    Meanwhile northern European countries have high tax rates and were able to stay open because they spend it all on health and education and no one accuses them of being communists. Go figure.

  • Hangryuman on 02/02/2022 - 10:19
    +2

    'We have one of the highest Tax rates in the world'

    last I looked I think the US - often quoted as having lower income tax than Australia - when you add up the various federal, state and local taxes, totalled slightly more than Australia for the total tax take.

    You could try Finland or Switzerland, where speeding tickets are proportional to income, so some guy caught speeding was charged $1M for a speeding ticket - https://www.hotcars.com/heres-why-a-dude-in-sweden-received-ā€¦ - sound fair now ?

    akchurlee - I found a cheaper place for you - 'The lowest ā€˜top fineā€™ in our study is in Sudan: $0.09 ($0.07 USD)' - https://www.budgetdirect.com.au/car-insurance/research/globaā€¦ - how about going to live there for lower taxes ?

    • techlead on 02/02/2022 - 11:34

      Yep, we are actually getting quite a good deal with what we are getting. The US tax system is a joke, most of it goes into defence, don't even have universal health care.

  • RecklessMonkeys on 02/02/2022 - 10:45
    +1

    What do nuclear submarines go for these days?

  • techlead on 02/02/2022 - 11:33
    +3

    First, superannuation contributions are not a tax. Its still your money, its a forced savings mechanism. You have control of it, which funds to invest it in, whether it be retail or a self managed super fund.

    Second, let's get the maths straight, yes, when your taxable income exceeds $180,001, every extra dollar you make is taxed at 45%. What most people don't understand is that, if you earn $180,000 of taxable income, it doesn't mean 45% of it goes into tax. If you earn exactly $180k of taxable income, you would have only paid $51,667 in tax due to the tiered tax brackets. So you will have $128,333 cash.

    I think our tax system is quite fair given the services we receive compared to the rest of the world. Eg, we have universal health care, that's huge. Xrays, CAT scans and other medical services don't cost thousands like in the US. Medicine is affordable.

    Unfortunately, I think the phase 3 tax cuts promised by the Coalition and adopted by the ALP will break this. Basically the middle tier of 37% will be eliminated, so people earning $45k up to $180k will pay 32.5% tax. It will benefit me greatly, I just think it wouldn't benefit Australia society as a whole. The ALP are quite unfortunate to inherit this insane policy, but at this point, they can't back away from it even if they win the next federal election in the next few months. ALP has such bad luck. Economy is going down, house prices will drop and the Coalition will of course try to falsely blame that on the ALP. People say the Coalition is good at managing the economy. Their track record over the last couple of years says otherwise. This is a lost decade for Australia, what has been achieved in the last decade since the Coalition took charge?

  • burningrage on 02/02/2022 - 11:50
    +2

    "If you earn exactly $180k of taxable income, you would have only paid $51,667 in tax due to the tiered tax brackets. So you will have $128,333 cash."

    I am not sure about polling this forum but $51,667 is a LOT of tax plus GST, Council Rates, Land Tax, Rego, etc.

    To put it into perspective, if we assume the traditionally accepted savings of 30%,

    $180,000 income
    $51,667 PAYG
    $128,333 After tax income
    $38,500 set aside as savings. Meaning $89,833 is spent of which let's say 10% was GST or $8,166
    $2,000 Council Rates
    $800 Rego
    $500 Land tax.

    So $63,133 tax. That's about $1 in every $3 you earn. In other words, for every 3 days you work, one day you work for the government.
    Even if you don't think that's a lot percentage wise, $63k as a nominal tax is a lot.

    So yes, I look forward for abolishing the 37% bracket.

    • techlead on 02/02/2022 - 22:19

      You don't need to pay coucil rates and land tax if you rent. Also, land tax is only levied on investment properties, you don't pay land tax on your primary residence.

      The question then becomes, choose your investments wisely. Property investment has been one of the worse returning investments over the last decade if you account for all the fees, council rates, land tax, strata (if its a unit or some kind of shared arrangement) etc etc.

      You should also look at what you get for the $51667 PAYG tax. You get a universal health system, where essential medicine is affordable, the roads are ok, we don't have bridges collapsing like in the US. Our education system is quite good, people graduating from university are not hundreds of thousands in debt.

      I think we get a good deal. I don't think aboslishing the 37% bracket will be helpful. Unfortunately, no matter who wins the federal election in a few months, its gonna happen.

      • burningrage on 04/02/2022 - 08:50

        Appreciate your pov. I just don't think we do get a good deal. Even if you take away council rates/land tax, it would be $60k or unless you want to get rid of cars too.

        $60k is an annual figure and to be honest, coming from an international student background that paid for everything with no Medicare coverage, I didn't share the benefit of the HECS you may have referred to so I don't feel like I am getting a good deal for that amount of money especially when I know another person (tax free threshold/LMITO taxpayer) who paid $0 tax also get these deals too.

        • techlead on 04/02/2022 - 13:56

          Well, from an international student perspective, then its not worth it (my personal view). When I looked at the full fees for my university course, I'm like, Who would pay for this?

          For international students, they don't have to be here. It is their choice, so the fact that you are here, means you think its a good deal. Your mouth/fingers might be saying its a bad deal, but your feet are saying otherwise. You can vote with your feet.

  • Pedro123 on 02/02/2022 - 12:14
    +1

    Don't forget the gazillionaires sitting up there looking down at all this squabbling …?

  • keejoonc on 02/02/2022 - 12:37

    Whatever you do, don't get any tax advice from @CrowReally.

  • raginggiant on 02/02/2022 - 12:40

    Find a single person who is actually paying 45% of net income as tax. I'll wait because I bet you can't. If you do I'll split the finders fee on getting them an accountant.

    • techlead on 02/02/2022 - 22:22

      I do. Most if it come from CGT. I can try to reduce it, but it ain't going below the 45% bracket unfortunately.

      • raginggiant on 03/02/2022 - 12:47

        Being in the 45% bracket is not the same as paying 45% of net as tax. I'm around that space but actual tax paid is about 25% of net. Yes, if you include all other taxes it can definitely get up a bit but for just PAYG no one actually pays 45% of net.

        • techlead on 03/02/2022 - 12:53

          Most of my income is not from PAYG. That's the problem.

  • rinco on 02/02/2022 - 13:57

    As others have said it's because of negative gearing. @EconomicsExplained on Youtube explains this best… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ohj_pOjp6U&t=690s

    • techlead on 02/02/2022 - 22:24

      There's not negative gearing in crypto unfortunately.

      Negative gearing is not that useful anyways. If you can choose to gain $1 mil from property with negative gearing or $10mil with crypto, I'd take crypto any day and get the 50% CGT discount. I really hope the ALP don't reduce that if they win the next federal election. I reckon they will do it in their second term though.

      • rinco on 03/02/2022 - 17:23

        $10 mil gain on crypto? Sounds like you rub shoulders with the likes of Vitalik Buterin. I happen to be Satoshi Nakamoto but nobody believes me.

        • techlead on 04/02/2022 - 00:57
          +1

          Are you serious? I've made way more than $10 million with crypto, but that's not enough for Vitalik to reply to my DM's let alone rub shoulders with him lol

  • centrelink on 02/02/2022 - 14:00

    Careful, you mentioned an income that is probably going to be higher than most people. Based on experience, its going to piss alot of people off here.

  • TransportPosters on 02/02/2022 - 15:10
    +2

    I really do wonder why our tax rate is so high and where the money is really going? Because it certainly isn't for education,roads and healthcare.

    Not sure how accurate it is, but I get this report after submitting my tax return and it shows what every single dollar of my contribution to the ATO went into. Don't you get that?

  • bunkymag on 02/02/2022 - 17:46

    Someone's got to pay for all those "free" Covid tests

  • So Was Red on 02/02/2022 - 18:32

    Because our government model is inefficient, probably, idk

  • Jared17 on 02/02/2022 - 18:40
    +1

    Tanks and nuclear subs bro

  • OzHunterNSW on 02/02/2022 - 19:19

    Why are yo complaining… where else in the world would you attract 180k… if there is a money issue… maybe someone is secretly hiding some money

  • Dack Smith on 02/02/2022 - 19:29
    +2

    OP earns 200K a year and complains about the tax paid on the bit that falls within the top bracket.

    I wish me and other Australians earned that much in order to pig whine.

    Hereā€™s a tip - donā€™t like it here? You as a ā€œprofessional eliteā€ is welcome to move to another low tax country and get a job there.

    Youā€™d think someone that earns that much would have some brains right?

  • furyou on 02/02/2022 - 20:01

    "I really do wonder why our tax rate is so high and where the money is really going? Because it certainly isn't for education,roads and healthcare."

    How do you know that? With your tax return it tells you what % of your tax goes where. I believe ~25% is welfare. Inc pensions/family payments/benefits.

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