Do I Take a Job for Less Money?

leftspeaker2000 on 01/02/2022 - 22:36
Last edited 02/02/2022 - 20:24

I'm 34 years old and I have been working in a very unique field for the last eight years. I have two degrees and just started a masters. I'm currently on $115k + 10% super. I really don't like my job anymore and I'm sick of working in Canberra.

I have been applying for jobs since early January and I just got offered a position at one of the big 4 in Sydney. In the application, it asked for my salary range which I put down at 115k. When they offered me the job today they said it would be 104k + 10k signing bonus. I thought this was ex super which it is not. Excluding the bonus, it's nearly a 20k pay cut which is a really hard pill to swallow considering I have 8 years of experience. I said this and they said sorry that is the highest in that band but we are confident you would progress quickly.but it could take me two years to get back up there.

I'm really confused what to do. The job would be good growth and out of canberra. But I have to pay to move, rent is more expensive, cost of living etc.

I feel like I'm worth more but I have also not proven myself in another role.

Update: Thank you everyone for your input. I decided to turn the position down. While it is a bit of a career change, moving to another city and a 20k cut to my salary, was too much of a pill to swallow. They might counter me but I doubt it.

Education & Work

Comments

  • Ti94 on 02/02/2022 - 13:15
    +1

    Simple!

    1. Hating your now job and city (no offense Canberrarian) —> take the new job. The 10k bonus should make the offer slightly below your current salary. Then after one year there you either jump to another company easily with more pay (now that you have got local experience AND with a big 4 company), or you got promotion at that big 4.
    2. Current job ok and can afford to wait around —> shop around, don't take a decision now that you may regret. With that much experience and in a niche area you should find other jobs easily in 1-2 months.

    Personally, I took a pay cut ($10k less) 2 years ago to move out of Sydney to one of the regional city, and could not be happier. I got more time for family, work less hours per day, and climbed back to my old wage (and more!) after 1 year of being with the new company :)

  • minotaurian on 02/02/2022 - 13:23
    +1

    From what I have read, you don't want to be in Canberra(bored)? Work is too easy (bored)? Not paid what you're worth compared to friends (envy)? And the issue is not work culture and colleagues ? The driving factor for change sounds very mental.

    And you want a new job with less pay, more work, less favourable hour and without guarantees. Also in Sydney which cost more to live in. Hmmmm, doesn't sound worth it.

    I was in the sorta similar predicament, I was in a major city , moved to a regional town 10 years ago, double pay, less stress, less hours. The town and work is boring. I learnt to reframe my mindset. Used the the benefits of the job to fuel my challenging hobbies and fortnightly holidays (airport helps), still a lot of money to spare . I avoid comparing salary with friends, as I've learnt people like to overinflate their earning, making me jealous for nothing. It's just like everyone here on ozbargain all earn 6 figures .

    • buckethat on 02/02/2022 - 16:40
      +1

      If you've got friends that lies about their salaries, then you need new friends.

  • Leeroy Jenkins on 02/02/2022 - 14:01
    +5

    With how much commodity prices have risen in the past couple of years, the reported inflation rate really doesn't reflect reality IMO. If you are taking a pay cut in dollar value, it means you are actually taking a much bigger pay cut in terms of purchasing power.

    I would simply keep looking unless you really can't take current job any longer.

    I'm not in your field, but as other people have echoed, I'd also avoid the big 4 unless you have specific goals.

  • keejoonc on 02/02/2022 - 16:14
    +2

    It's a job finder's market out there at the moment, especially if you are a profesional or have specific skill sets.
    Tell them to stuff it.

  • FittyFitty on 02/02/2022 - 17:52

    Canberra usually pays more than the other capitals; Sydney more than Melbourne.

    If it's not about the money, does the move to Sydney "compensate" for the difference? As usual, it's the sum of all parts…

    • leftspeaker2000 on 02/02/2022 - 22:54

      Yes and no. Not 20k comp considering the higher cost of living.

  • Powershopz on 02/02/2022 - 17:57
    +4

    Despite being located in Sydney, I can only imagine working for one of the big 4 being much worse than your current situation.

    I know plenty of people with first hand experience at these companies (albeit working in Melbourne) and all of them haven't had many good things to say about their roles there. You'll be working a lot of unpaid overtime. Very clique-ey culture. If you're part of the boys club, you'll tolerate it. If you're not, you'll absolutely loathe work.

    Be patient and wait for the right role to come along. They are also low-balling you with offers in Sydney as any jobs their need to take into account COL increases (although I imagine pretty similar to Canberra).

    Perhaps consider Melbourne - although again you'll get low balled on salary and being doing lots of hours.

    When it comes to justifying salary, you've got to create a damn good value proposition of what you'll bring to the company. You'll have less leeway with the big 4 because they know people want to work for them. They'll also have you constantly chasing the proverbial carrot by dangling promotions/salary increases in front of you.

    • leftspeaker2000 on 02/02/2022 - 22:55
      +1

      Great advice and post. I feel like with this whole anti work mentality going around now, big 4 will really struggle.

  • dji1111111 on 02/02/2022 - 18:08
    +1

    How do you even know you will be happy in the new job? I wouldn't accept the offer. For all you know, you could end up hating your new job AND get paid less to boot. That will be a double whammy.

  • Pufff on 02/02/2022 - 18:12
    +1

    The grass isn't always greener on the other side.

    Unless you really hate your current role you shouldn't rush. Roles come and go.

    Who knows maybe something better might be around the corner?

  • wfh on 02/02/2022 - 18:37
    +3

    Ex-big4 here.

    104k base including super? That pay is a senior consultant level.

    At manager you’re probably expecting to get 125k-130k.

    For 8 years of experience, that seems meme.

    Job market is pretty hot right now, decline and see if they counter offer. Or just go somewhere else. Could easily get 30%+ elsewhere.

  • wfh on 02/02/2022 - 18:41

    Also worth calling out, if you’re moving laterally into big4/consulting without prior consulting industry, it’s assumed you’re not ready at the level you think you’d be.

    Every industry person I’ve seen come in, struggles real hard. Vs if you compare a grad who’s moved up but is at the same level.

  • tessel on 02/02/2022 - 18:42

    I think you already know the answer. The decision is an illusion. You know the answer.

  • Velt on 02/02/2022 - 18:56

    https://www.seek.com.au/job/55771922?ref=saved
    Is this similar to your current role? Come to Perth (if you can).

    • leftspeaker2000 on 02/02/2022 - 18:56

      One of the places I won't go is West Coast aha.

      • Velt on 02/02/2022 - 18:58

        Up to you, lots of opportunities in a big mining company.

        • buckethat on 03/02/2022 - 21:58

          How's living there compared to the east coast?

          I must admit I don't really have very good impression of west coast living either. No real reason either.. thats just the perception I have.

          • Velt on 04/02/2022 - 09:10

            @buckethat: What's important to you regarding living?

            • buckethat on 04/02/2022 - 09:42

              @Velt: I suppose good infrastructure, public facilities, shopping centres, nice suburbs that doesnt look and feel like 1990s.

              • Velt on 04/02/2022 - 11:56

                @buckethat: Perth has massive sprawl so is a lot more decentralised compared to over east. There are several 'micro towns' that have their own shopping areas and infrastructure. Some are really nice, some are rubbish.

                The main advantage of Perth is that you can afford to live much closer to your work for a much cheaper price than the eastern states. The nice beaches and south west area help as well.

  • uzz32 on 02/02/2022 - 20:04

    OP, before you move to the Big 4, make sure you ascertain what your performance metrics will be. If you're a fee earner, you'll usually be measured on utilisation (i.e. billable hours) and you'll be expected to bill around 5.5 to 6 hours per day whilst staying within the allocated budget for the engagements you're put on. It makes for a very stressful time and is one of the pressure points of the job that breaks many aspiring professionals.

  • wog_ta on 02/02/2022 - 20:04
    +4

    Unless your desperately trying to get out of the company or Canberra I would keep looking for a better offer. You don't want to go to another company where you feel like your underpaid, that won't motivate you to put your best foot forward IMO.

    Lateral moves or even moving down to slightly less pay is not always the worst thing, does this new role offer anything of tangible value to you in terms of learning experience? Would the new company be willing to accommodate your time commitment to completing your masters?

    On the flip side are there any other opportunities to move in your current company?

  • ashftc on 02/02/2022 - 20:45

    Living on current job and feeling demotivated every day or 20k temporary pay cut and enjoy the work you do. Clear choice if you can afford to live on new salary.

  • seenandunseen on 02/02/2022 - 21:08
    +3

    If your degrees and work experience are directly related to the new position then I would tell them your expected salary and politely decline if they can't meet or get close to your expectations.
    HR pushing you to accept the lower pay / role while saying they are confident you will quickly progress is contradictory. If they rate you they should offer what you believe you are worth.
    This is the moment when your salary negotiation position is at its strongest, and don't forget there is currently an employee / skills shortage too!

    • leftspeaker2000 on 02/02/2022 - 21:54

      Thank you. I rejected the offer on the basis that the salary does not align. They night come back to me tomorrow, who knows.

      • seenandunseen on 02/02/2022 - 22:17

        You mentioned your position is quite specialized, so I really doubt they have a bunch of other suitable candidates to offer the position to instead.
        My guess is they come back with a revised offer in a week or so.

  • SaberX on 02/02/2022 - 21:22
    +2

    I've never found that "you'll catchup in a few yrs quickly" as any solid ground to take a job. Take it now because or only if your happy with the work itself, opportunities and the pay it pays now. Hoping it'll revert back up in 2 yrs is a recipe for disappointment and I am abit more pessimistic on this end.

    As you Go higher up in experience I feel the pushback to be paid what your worth (short of not having super inflated salary expectations) means you shouldn't sell yourself short.

    Seems you've decided to not take the job on that basis.

    • leftspeaker2000 on 02/02/2022 - 21:52
      +1

      I have. It could take mutiple years to get back to what I was on. It is a small team and there would be a lot of competition which means unless I perform amazingly, which will be hard when I'm competing with people with 5 years experience.

  • iwantmoney on 02/02/2022 - 21:22
    +4

    OP, I work currently in the Big 4 (PwC) - take my advice, do not work for these entities. They pay ridiculously below market for what you're worth. Unless you stay for about a year and then are confident you can move again, this might be a route you are willing to take

    • leftspeaker2000 on 02/02/2022 - 21:50

      Thank you! I turned down the job. 20k is too much of a cut to justify then add in moving and higher cost in Sydney.

  • uzz32 on 02/02/2022 - 22:03

    OP, if they come back to you, leverage for a higher position and more pay and see how far you get. They're desperate for resources so if you're good, they will pay accordingly.

    • leftspeaker2000 on 02/02/2022 - 22:57

      This Is what im hoping for. I'll keep everyone updated. I have my hat in the ring with another two of the big 4.

      • techlead on 02/02/2022 - 23:47

        With 8 years experience, you should be at the senior manager level, which should be around the $150-200k range. Know your worth, don't let them low ball you.

        A friend of mine was approached by a recruiter for a senior manager role paying $135k plus super, he turned it down straight away, too low.

  • techlead on 02/02/2022 - 23:42
    +2

    You dodged a bullet there, mate.

    I wouldn't recommend the Big 4 to anyone except if you have zero experience, then taking their grad program would be very beneficial for your CV.

    $104k is nothing. I'm around your age and I'm earning way more than that. I only have 2 degrees no masters. Never been with a Big 4, although they did try to recruit, I asked for the pay upfront. I said to them, there's really no point continuing with the process if the pay is not within my expectations. That's where I left the conservation because when they told me the pay structure, I said no straight away. They tried to say culture is good, experience and breath of variety of their clients would make up for the pay cut. Also if I'm good, they will fast track me for promotion. I begged to differ.

    I'm not sure what field you are in, but 8 years experience to be offered $104k base is quite an insult.

    You also said your role is quite specialized, the fact they tried to low ball you means they don't value you that much. Its very unlikely they will promote or give you a big raise later on. You are also taking a big leap of faith by moving to Sydney which is quite expensive to live in compared to Canberra. So I think you definitely made the right choice.

    • Shiny Mew on 03/02/2022 - 20:22
      +1

      What's with people thinking $104k plus super is a bad salary at 34/8 years experience? Many if not most people with two or more degrees would be on no more than that salary around that time (including lawyers, architects, accountants, chemists, scientists etc), and many such people would be working more hours than your average government employee.

      • wfh on 04/02/2022 - 00:58

        It is pretty bad when you consider most grad salaries start at 60-70k. Can do the maths from here based on X number of years

      • techlead on 04/02/2022 - 13:53

        From my experience, aged 34 with 8 years experience on $115k plus 10% super is not a good salary.

        Maybe I've been lucky.

  • brawndo on 02/02/2022 - 23:42
    +1

    You probably shouldn't be leaving for anything less than 20% more in the current climate.

    • techlead on 02/02/2022 - 23:44

      yea, definitely a bad deal

  • regenade on 03/02/2022 - 01:14
    +3

    BIG 4 with a 20% pay cut, you dodged a bullet there ! You would have worked 50% more, living expenses 20% more and would have had a very miserrable life. Big 4 are for "fresh" hot chicks to get hitched or fling with loaded partners/directors or for grads to get the name on your CV and do a runner after 2 years and get paid 2x-3x of the starting grad paygrade !

  • BartholemewH on 03/02/2022 - 01:41

    Salary increases aren't growing on trees at the moment. Change jobs by all means, but stick it out for an offer with equal/better remuneration.

    Edit: I changed jobs during COVID for (a lot!!) less money. I should have managed various stresses at the time better.

  • SkMed on 03/02/2022 - 08:38
    +1

    I was in almost the same position 3 years ago (although without the moving to another city part). I also work in a very new/unique industry and was offered a government job but with a 15k pay cut. The advantage was that the new job was very close to home (10 min bike ride) where as my old job was a 1+hr PT commute, Another factor was gov jobs are far less toxic, better work/life balance etc.

    Was a no brainer for me and I took the pay cut. now 3 years later I'm pretty much back up to my same salary. I'd advise taking it, especially if you're single, no house etc. $95k vs $115k isnt really a massive deal, especially when you consider how many people live on FAR less than this.

  • roozmik on 03/02/2022 - 09:03

    Does your current job or other job have potential bonuses or other perks?

    I recently got a bonus that was 20% of my salary - previous yr was 10%.

    Depends on company performance I guess, but something to factor in.

    • techlead on 03/02/2022 - 09:12
      +1

      Bonus and Big 4 don't get along unless there's a "bad" or "non-existent" in front of it. :D

      You will work like a slave for low pay.

  • drprox on 03/02/2022 - 09:35
    +2

    Without revealing it all I was on a fair bit more than you and took a pay cut to about the amount you mentioned dropping to for my sanity mid covid. No regrets at all!

    I didn't have to move city though and get to work from home more than ever so some offset.

    • techlead on 03/02/2022 - 10:01

      That's good you put your mental health first.

      I also changed jobs during covid, but for a signficant pay increase (40%), my previous employer didn't even give me an inflation pay rise, so I went to the market and found my own pay rise.

  • Gordon61B on 03/02/2022 - 11:15
    +2

    Of course I could be wrong about any specific firm, but I describe those you were considering as 'baby eaters'. They'll consume your soul. But some are OK with that, in the pursuit of wealth. I've gone from contracting up to $900.00 a day (often working for baby eaters), to earning less than $36k /year. Happiness matters.

  • Takashi on 03/02/2022 - 11:43
    +1

    Big 4 are on a massive recruitment drive, and can't find enough candidates. As a previous Director in a big 4, I'd say stand your ground and ask for what you feel is reasonable. A friend turned down a role, thought it was the end of that but they were so desperate for people they counter-offered with an even higher position.

    But yeah, Big 4 work environment is suitable for some people, and not compatible with others.

  • afah0447 on 03/02/2022 - 13:51
    +1

    Still early in the year and the job market is good. And It's a low ball offer from an employer who will work you to the bone. Get back to them with a higher offer. If they refuse, keep looking.

  • Deadalready on 03/02/2022 - 14:06
    +2

    In my experience, corporation promises are meaningless, unless you sign a contract they will happily "forget" any promises made to you, assuming the person who made the promise is even still around.

    A 20k pay cut PER YEAR definite, to maybe get back to where you are in two years is pretty bullshit. You're talking about losing 40k to maybe one day earn what you're already earning.

    Bad deal.

    You hate your job, but do you enjoy the lifestyle that extra 20k pays for every year?

  • Nebargains on 03/02/2022 - 16:04
    +1

    Glad you've decided to say no.

    A bit over a decade ago I had a similar situation (albeit less money), job I hated located in the city, work was easy and I could do it with my eyes shut, lots of friends but progression was limited and I was about the top of what I could earn there without a change in job.

    So I left to go to a smaller company closer to home in a slightly different more interesting field. They offered me like 25k less than what I was in the job interview lol, I said I can't it is just too low, so they upped it by 5k and said as soon as they could they would put me on more but money was tight (I believe that to be true), it was below market rate in my opinion.

    I took the job, 20k pay cut but saved a crap load of time commuting, worst decision I ever made, immediately realised that the company had the same issues I was running from only now I was on less money which just made everything tighter at home money wise. I made the most of it and in about 6 months they upped my salary by 10k…. and there it stayed for the next 3 years, every time I spoke to my boss about my pay I was given some excuse about being the most they can pay me etc or my performance isn't good enough etc (which was rubbish).

    Anyway, lesson learned, never take a pay cut, you may not like the job and in return you just have less money in the bank. If they don't want to pay what you are worth then it isn't worth working there.

    • techlead on 03/02/2022 - 16:50
      +1

      Thanks for sharing, good to get these experiences from other people.

      I've only ever taking a new role with a significant increase in pay, never had a situation where it was a pay cut. I withdraw my application as soon as I find out the role pays less than my current one.

  • tryingtohelp on 03/02/2022 - 18:51
    +1

    I wish to seek help from the community here
    I have tried several interviews but haven’t been able to successfully get through at the end.
    Any suggestion will be appreciated.
    Please pm me for some suggestions :)

  • Hearthstone on 03/02/2022 - 19:51

    are working in tech? like coder? big jump in salary in the last 2 years
    it even more in the last 6 months. people are getting 30-60% jump in salary
    and good coder get counter offer left and right, good coder can easily earned 200K or more.

    if you are a coder don't accept anything less than 150K

  • wordsmith on 03/02/2022 - 23:20

    "they said sorry that is the highest in that band"

    A lie that recruiters will never stop telling.

    • wfh on 04/02/2022 - 01:03

      I guess in consulting, people are often compared to their peers. So if someone got paid more than expected for a given level and word got out, it would cause quite the furore.

      There's usually some leeway when it comes to lateral hires though - which would probably be the "higher end of the band" .

      Also any negotiations should probably be done with the partner/director as opposed to the recruiter, they will mostly likely have the say in that matter from a cost centre perspective.

  • rollin on 04/02/2022 - 07:10

    I have took a pay cut before. i would never do it again. Big companies like that will try and undercut you all the time. Either take it for the experience or CV and leave within 12-18 months or tell them no chance. Preferably the latter. Especially if you are already in a specialist role. look elsewhere.

    P.s. whats bad about working in canberra?

  • MK99 on 04/02/2022 - 08:36

    You mentioned you're in the APS and you want to move interstate. Many of the APS agencies are open to flexible working arrangements and I have seen first hand many colleagues that have been able to get an outposting meaning they work from an interstate government office while still working for their Canberra based team. The outpostings are typically for 12 months but can be renewed if you have been working effectively. I would suggest you tell your manager that you want to remain working for the Canberra team (because you enjoy the work, passionate, etc) but need to move interstate to be near family and have caring duties or something compelling like that. If you are competent at your job and your manager is comfortable with you working interstate this could mean you get out of Canberra and can work a mix of days from the relevant state office and from home. This would also mean you remain on your $115k salary and with the agreement in place for 12 months you will have time to apply for other jobs for long term security.

  • Mr Haj on 04/02/2022 - 08:56

    take the bonus, quit and get your old job back.

  • mlevit on 04/02/2022 - 09:14
    +1

    There is a massive resourcing shortage at the moment and money is being thrown around. In the current market, you'd be crazy to take a pay cut. Everyone including the big 4 is suffering to find people, so don't settle.

  • blorx on 04/02/2022 - 09:43

    I took 15% cut into my current role to get away from newly promoted incompetent management. Increased that over time +25%.

  • cookie2 on 04/02/2022 - 10:12

    I guess I'd consider my expenses and if a reduction will change my quality of life. Will it give more work/life balance AND does that matter to you. Will it be a perm reduction or temp. Will it give you a more enjoyable work experience. Can you go back if worst comes to worst (not the job but the work field/location). And think Why you want the job. Money isn't everything. Important yes, but so you can live the life you want to live.

  • anglais on 04/02/2022 - 10:33

    If it's a niche skill could you branch out and start your own consultancy?

  • Littlevu on 04/02/2022 - 11:37

    You can do a search on LinkedIn and send a pm to people who work or have worked there. Get a feel for what it’s like to work at that organisation.

    I know you turned down that role and I think it is the right call because you have the option of finding a role that meets your expectation. Good luck with the job hunting!

  • Hall-fg on 04/02/2022 - 16:22

    Hating your job and settling for another job with less pay is not really a soluton.
    Speak to your employer let them know the situation. Taking a lower paid job sucks but if it's affecting you that badly try to build a side-hussle on something that fits with your skillset.

  • murkywater on 04/02/2022 - 16:42

    I wouldnt take it. Look for other jobs in Sydney that pay you a decent wage.

  • [Deactivated] on 04/02/2022 - 18:14

    I didn't take a pay cut per say, but moved to a new area with higher cost of living for the same pay so I was earning less overall. I don't regret it, I had fun and it was something new. I don't think I would've been happier had I stayed and saved that 20k or so. For the record, earning less than 100k so yes, it's significant.

  • MoonlapseVertigo on 04/02/2022 - 21:12
    +1

    Mate thank you for your post. It’s an omen for my wife who is in a very similar position to you right now.

    Currently gone through 4 rounds of interviews with a certain big 4 for a role which is paying 7% under her current role (small boutique consulting firm) with promises to promote to senior level in 18 months. They won’t budge on salary and offer a signing bonus to get her over the edge.

    It’s def a trap. You should only move for more than ur current pay in the current environment. With borders closed, people with real knowledge from the boutique side of professional services are extremely valuable.

    Shoot for the stars mate, go after that $150k somewhere else. The CV is not worth the pain

    • techlead on 04/02/2022 - 21:34

      The sign on bonus is a trap, its just once off and you are stuck with the low base. Definitely don't take a pay cut to the base.

  • JuryWheel on 04/02/2022 - 21:56

    Surely it's a no brainer to take the role if you are sure you want to move and that you will enjoy the new job more then the last. The difference in money isnt anything huge and will be forgotten about soon enough….

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