Hello everyone / Today I had bad luck with my son’s school / My son is six years old in the first grade / He pressed the alarm button and caused a false alarm and two fire trucks came to school / The school principal told me about the possibility of getting a bill estimated at 3000 dollars / I tried to discuss with her and she told me that the school will not pay this amount if there is a fine that will be paid by the father / What should I do?
Thank you
What would you do if your child was running around pulling fire alarms at your expense with no repercussion?
I’d discipline him. I agree with you on that front.
But the op didn’t come here asking you or me for parenting advice, he had a slightly different enquiry. Your reply to him is more of a preventative measure for next time around rather than a viable solution for his current predicament.
Regardless, even the nicest kids sometimes do the silliest things at the age of 6. Lets not pretend that we didn’t do such daft things when we were at that age.Its more to do with the curious nature of kids during early childhood.
@tsunamisurfer: If my child did this, he better get a job. Not just to pay the $3,000, but to pay the bills for living somewhere else.
@pompompom: It's called Life Experience.
I had my first job at 3 years old and it set me up for a life of investment, financial independence and higher education. I graduated with 2 degrees and a minor after 5 years of University, and already had enough to retire.
@Scrooge McDuck: Hahahaha life experience at 3 years. You crack me up man. Also nice flex but the number of useless degrees you have from a tier3 uni has nothing to do with anything here.
If you had enough to retire in your early 20s, what are you doing on ozbargain ?
You know what you can't learn. Intelligence.
@Scrooge McDuck: You know I'm more qualified than you and that too from an Ivy league institution. Do I go around boasting it on ozbargain. Nope.
Did my parents threaten to kick me out of the house at the age of 3 and ask me to get out and earn money. Heck no.
Cudos to you tho because you are the first person I've seen with a major in mech / physics who thinks he gets bragging rights. Those two are the most easiest majors and lowest paying fields to get into. But good for you that you werent atleast flipping burgers and managed to find an actual career unlike most ppl with similar qualifications.
Finally you don't get wealthy from saving money. You can comfortable and have a good life but you won't be rich. Do you think Elon Musk or Bill gates got wealthy from saving at the age of 3. Lol.
@pompompom: lol seeing the two of you get into a pissing contest is quite funny…
Keep at it guys
@pompompom: If you think mech is easy compared to almost any other type of engineering I'd be surprised if you're an engineer who's ever done any fluid dynamics haha
@Scrooge McDuck: lmao, if we're playing this game - imagine your highest level of qualification being university…yikes
@Scrooge McDuck: That's pretty good to achieve all that before your 4th birthday. Update us how you are going when you turn 5.
@Gervais fanboy: lol it's a typical holier than thou/high horse OZB comment.
No one in this place ever makes a mistake
@skidexa: https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/11748932/redir
lol I was actually was going to comment the exact same thing that you just did but I feared offending the 80% population on this website.
@bakemon0: Hahahah, coz I am an idiot.
Na, I see people being able to quote certain passages of people’s comments to reply to them and also they are able to link one’s comment onto a totally different thread.
Me using Ozbargain on my iPhone’s browser, am struggling to figure out how to do all of that
So I recently figured out that clicking on the timeline of a comment, copies the link to it
So using my ‘6 year old curious mind’ I decided to give it a go. Just to see what it looks like after posting.
@skidexa: Hear hear! I posted somewhere before of the extreme judgmental pack mentality exhibited in this forum before and unfortunately it is still there to this very day.
@Gervais fanboy: I agree with you. One thing that amazes me about this community is how arrogant so many are. Acting as if you or your kids would never have done a thing. He is literally 6 and it's more than likely a giant shiny rent button, if you think most kids wouldn't press that you'd be sorely mistaken.
I think a 3k fine for something like that is excessive and unnecessary. Common sense says to displine the child and maybe scare them with the fine of a lot of money (maybe they are too young to understand) or loss of a toy to make clear the repercussions is acceptable.
I think the school would deflect the fine as it isn't their responsibility and fairly so, but I think things should be more lenient for 6 year old kids, common sense is requried.
@MrSammyMcG: so what do you say to the emergency staff that turns up? oh hey sorry it was my kid.. nah dont want to pay..
also, what do you say to those potential victims that the emergency staff could have saved..but were instead going to an emergency call which turned out to be false..
@MrSammyMcG: Using emergency services time is a very serious thing (especially now so when they are understaffed).
I'd rather he pay 3k (and every other parent with kids who do this) than not have good emergency response times in the case of an actual emergency….
@Gervais fanboy: "What should I do?"
Pay the 3 grand and if he does it again take away his ipad/switch/playstation
OP asked. SnowDragon answered. Case closed.
@mja65: Hmm
Look at you cherry pick and not being able to understand that it’s not his or ours business to tell parents how to deal with their kids.
‘ Member since 11 min ago’
‘Tell your son to never touch things he shouldn't and always to think before he speaks’
‘if he does it again take away his ipad/switch/playstation’
Snow Dragon could have just urged the op to pay the fine. The rest of it, seemed mental to me considering we are talking about a 6 year old over here and the preposterous insinuation that a 6 year old child wouldn’t have pulled that alarm in the first place, if only the op would have been doing exactly what Snow Dragon has just asked him to do.
Also, that little dig about th op being a brand new member. As if that’s anyway relavent to his/her enquiry.
He’d probably call Ricky Gervais…
What would you do if your child was running around pulling fire alarms at your expense with no repercussion?
If he is my child, I'd find out the true of it. He's already in trouble for did what he did, the severity of it entirely rest on his ability to tell the true. If he does it again, after many lectures, he'd be in even bigger trouble.
ozb is can be rebranded ozreddit where 90% of comments are from people who think they're gods gift.
FFS, take some personal responsibility. Once you shoot your sperm, there will be consequences and one of it is having a child. Therefore, you will be a Dad so show that you're by teaching the kid some rights and wrongs. Education started at home and don't wait for society to be teaching your kid.
See, you have just sidetracked the whole conversation to something that you could align your narratives with..
Because I not for once debated the validity of the fine. I am not arguing for or against the op paying the fine..
You have clearly misunderstood me
I objected to Snow Dragon trying to berate and giving unsolicited parenting advice to someone that didn’t ask for it. Also, he seemed a bit out of touch to me when imparting all that blame to a 6 year old and his dad. As if 6 year olds with their very limited cognitive ability could ever be full proofed from pulling such stunts.
They are both two different things.
I’ve shot’ my sperm plenty of times without consequences …. Except that one time. Someone needs the birds and bees talk again :P
I'm guessing you're childless, a well behaved kid can make a misjudgment at the age of 6 and have this happen.
Not to remove blame on an individual but I'd imagine it'd be the teacher's responsibility to be in command of the alarm button and should be either out of reach children or at least a mild impediment to activating it.
This is so true, In my school you had a little hammer and a glass window you had to break before you could press the big red button.
I think there maybe have been a plastic cover over the whole thing you had to lift up too..
The kid is 6. I get that the school might be on the hook for the fine from the fire station, but its a 6 year old. The age of criminal responsibility is 10 in Australia. Not that this is a crime, but if we've decided that anyone younger than 10 is not culpable for their actions in the eyes of the law, I feel it should also apply in this situation. If the school is getting fines from the station, its probably not the first time its happened (source: I worked at a brisbane school where it happened, they didn't fine us until the 3rd call out in a fortnight. Its probably the stations choice tbh). If its happening multiple times, they may need to review where they are placed and how accessible they are to young people.
However, as a parent that doesn't absolve responsibility. You've been presented a learning opportunity that you can use to benefit your kid. Take advantage of it, explain what happened and what happens, and the consequences. Make sure your kid understands and wont ever do it again.
Why do forums members quote join date. Who gives a fark when they joined. Anyone can ask a question and if you dont want to participate then stop quoting joined date
1st-time people come on to ask questions, generally disagree and then won't come back to tie up the story with an outcome.
So what if they disagree. That's the whole point of a forum and being on the internet.
@yellowfever: People think the point of a forum is to get answers, people who come here with their answer already decided and then argue when it's different to the consensus are kind of annoying
@yellowfever: Correct. Some people are just gatekeepers and apparently you need to be a forum member for months before you can ask the OZB Gods a question.
I agree, alot of new members just come in to ask questions for validation
People come on here and get berated by a bunch of holier than though people. I understand why they create throwaway accounts for it. The only thing I don't understand is why they bother asking this forum for advice most of the time.
@macrocephalic: I mean I can relate with the op here
The stress of having to fork out 3 grand like that makes you desperate enough to come to forums to seek advice from strangers.
Also, seemingly the op is genuinely new to Ozbargain and hasn’t just made a secondary account to ask a somewhat ‘controversial’ cry for help.
In crowds.
Out crowds.
Remember high school… It's that feeling of self importance gained.
There's a higher probability of being a troll account for new members
Maybe a long time lurker and first time poster
Which I trust much more than the long time reader, first time lurker.
Nonsense,. Unless the parent had a say in how and where the alarm button was installed or was informed of the possibility prior and agreed to be wear the cost, then no - school wears the burden. This was not a malicious act and should not be treated as such. Kids are curious, taught to be curious and expected to be curious. It's good to be curious. Schools should be prepared for curious kids (insert picture of man sitting at desk with "change my mind" sign).
It's a cost of running the school. It is clearly an incident that could be foreseen by the school and they need to design around this and not ignore the issue or pass on the cost to parents.
Nah, the kid has to bear the cost. Otherwise where is the incentive to learn how to get up to such shenanigans without getting caught?
How is a 6yo going to wear the cost?
How is punishing an adult for a child’s curiosity and an improperly placed alarm beneficial to said child?
lol
Got anything useful to add other than a personal attack?
I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. hug
why does everyone assume the kid is doing it out of malice, he is only 6 (do they read at that age?).
maybe the alarm setup is questionable if it directly goes to $3000 if pushed by inadvertence, should the kid or the alarm have been better monitored, had their been any education telling 6 yr olds not to push it? quite easy for the school to say "wasn'me". As a parent i'd offer to pay $1000 "out of generosity" and suggest to review the setup.
I'd tell the 6 yr old not to press those sort of things and the trouble they cause, if it was pushed out of curiosity but whats the point of holding it against him for months other than straining relations.
had the kid been 14-16, i'd use it as an opportunity to get rid of "it"
Of course they can read at that age, my whole class could read in 1st grade.
I will say though that I don't think any 6yr old was tall enough to hit the emergency button when I was in school
those memories are a little far for me so i wasnt sure of reading capabilities, my friends' kids dont look like they'd be able to read much (on the other hand they may be giganitic enough)
Really? Unless you're extremely young how could you possibly remember your entire first grade class was reading proficiently?
As the father of a 6 and 7 year old I can tell you their reading abilities vary greatly at this age.
I'm not backing up the inability to distinguish a fire alarm… just that saying a 6 year old can definitely read is false.
Anyone that feels good for posting "member since …" is an ass.
I wouldn't pay a cent. From the moment the child arrived at the school the responsibility for the child is the Principal who has failed to provide adequate supervision, of his charge. Go back to the school and tell 'em their dreaming, our Law firm O Z Bargin will be in touch.
I think that this story is most likely just the principal venting their frustrations, and nothing will come of it. If there was any further mention, I would mention the possibility of a $3000 claim against the school for inadequate supervision of the child. Neither of these cases should ever go to court.
Yeah. I agree. If it comes to it, I'd request a VCAT hearing. Might as well know what an adjudicator thinks. My impression is it won't get anywhere near VCAT.
Also before it goes to VCAT - I'd make sure the department knows that the school is trying to pass the fine on to you too. https://www.vic.gov.au/raise-complaint-or-concern-about-your…
Unfortunately, and surprisingly, it appears to Ombudsman is unable to help with government school complaints - unless anyone better informed understands otherwise.
Mate he's 6.
I think it's about $300 for a false alarm. Let the little one go to court. Obviously school did not supervise enough.
Try talking to the school again as there might be some process or procedure for this and I'm assuming there should be something to deal with these situations. Wont a school tell kids not to do this ?
I know its a lot but be cool with your self and the kid.
Wont a school tell kids not to do this ?
All kids obey rules? Heck, adults don't! Unfair to expect kids to.
Unfortunately, parents are responsible for their kid's actions :(
I was saying in terms of like evacuation plan or something
What evacuation plan?
Did the kid press a button because of an emergency?
Maybe negotiate with the fire brigade to pay the incremental costs. That would be fuel for the journey, wear and tear on the equipment, er… can't think of anything else. Should come to about $50 by my highly suspect (but somewhat rational) reckoning.
No need. The fire brigade will not bill the child or parents, they will bill the school (or entity that's legally responsible for the property). The school could try to pass on the cost to the parents, but I can't see how they could enforce it without going to court which would probably end up very badly for the school.
A friend lived in an apartment block where false alarms meant bills of that size or more were sent to the owners corporation by the fire brigade. I don't think it's something they negotiate on.
The fire brigade usually won't bill anyone for a one off issue. It's usually only repeat offenders thstget billed. I worked somewhere where there was often someone either smoking in the toilet or burning toast which resulted in fires coming out, and I don't think anyone was ever billed. Emails went out, signs went up, people were told it was serious, but it never got to the point we got billed or had to pass it on.
As such I doubt school will be billed, and if they are I would be asking how many other times the fires had to come out in recent history
Congrats, you learnt an expensive lesson on your sons behalf.
Maybe he gets no presents this Birthday, Christmas for the next few years. bet he never does it again
Ha! My son would!
Once he knows that I'd get pissed over certain matter, he'd try to push his luck, purposely doing it occasionally to see how I'd respond
edit: sonS
Not sure that's healthy
I'm sure your child will learn from the experience.
My understanding is that the charge of $ for a false fire alarm is discretionary. It may not eventuate, but you will have to wait and see.
I'm surprised that a fire alarm in a school environment is not protected to prevent accidental enactment (which may also make it harder for a 6.y.o. to enact).
Suppose rules are lax at your school and your son finds himself alone with the principal, things could get ugly.
-1 for this statement. What a ridiculous statement!
Well the kid may be a transsexual attending a religious school.
As a parent of a six year old, I believe we are all now dumber for having read your comment.
are you implying the principal would beat the ever living crap out of OP's son?
If the board of the school has shamed this principal over the incident and the principal has a big ego, then he may want to do that.
Utter nonsense. I can't even begin to understand where you are coming from with this line of thought; maybe some OS school experience? Behaviour, as you have described, if in a public school, would have a principal stood down whilst under investigation. What principal would behave as if a six year old is "public enemy number one"?
Setting off a fire alarm is annoying, and possibly expensive, but is in the scheme of things nowhere near as problematic as children who are violent to peers and staff, sexually assault their peers; or destructive to expensive equipment. These behaviours may seem extreme, when describing six year olds, but it does in fact occur, luckily infrequently.
@DashCam AKA Rolts: In an independent school who is going to stand down the principal? The department of education?
@AustriaBargain: I'm challenging your statement "If the board of the school has shamed this principal over the incident and the principal has a big ego, then he may want to do that." That is just nonsense in this scenario.
If a principal were to persecute a six year old, apart from the press, the parents, the school's governing council, the Independent School Association; there are also national standards etc that must be met. The behaviour you're suggesting would bring such an individual enormous difficulties.
Authorities in Australia even sought the extradition of a principal, of an independent school, who had done the wrong thing and fled OS.
@DashCam AKA Rolts: Independent Schools Association has no power over member schools, they offer guidelines only. The only people with power over an independent principal is the school board, which is usually a church. And why would the board go against their own guy against who they are told is a troublemaking kid? If the principal did go as far as physical violence you can bet your ass the school will hire lawyers to defend the principal sooner than fire him if there were no witnesses. Catholic Church even defends rapists in schools, you think they would have a problem defending a principal accused of just bullying?
Independent schools must meet the criteria established by the relevant state or territory government for registration as a school. In all states and territories, Independent school registration is regularly reviewed to ensure that schools maintain appropriate standards and meet requirements in relation to staffing, facilities, environment, management, curriculum and reporting requirements.
https://isa.edu.au/about-independent-schools/about-independe…
@DashCam AKA Rolts: Those are just words. If any of them were binding then independent schools would refer allegations of abuse and other misconduct to independent investors or the police instead of aiming lawyers at the parents. At the end of the day independent schools are private organisations, usually just churches, and will do whatever they want to protect their own.
@AustriaBargain: Clearly you are locked into this mind set and nothing I have to say will influence your position. However, having 40+ years of background in public education, with friends and family both working in the independent/private sector and attending as students, I have a very different opinion to you.
The views you express, I understand in an historic context, particularly relating to the Catholic system, especially involving elements of the clergy in schools. I have the deepest sympathy with any victims of such abuse, but I believe the intense scrutiny of the sector as a result, sees much more accountability of all concerned now. That is why I don't agree with your feelings that a principal would victimise a six year old.
Tell your son to never touch things he shouldn't and always to think before he speaks.
Pay the 3 grand and if he does it again take away his ipad/switch/playstation