Switching from ING due to Ukraine

CacheHunter on 10/03/2022 - 08:19

Who else is boycotting ING because of their continued Russian operations?

The news just keeps getting worse in Ukraine: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-10/ukrainian-officials-s…

Governments have gone so far with sanctions, but the rest of us can do our bit to reward good corporate behavior and punish businesses that are continuing to prop up Putin by participating in the Russian economy.

Ethically, i am trying to avoid businesses that are still operating in Russia. Fortunately, the number of businesses withdrawing from Russia is picking up. Most Australian super funds are exitting their Russian investments and many multi national brands are doing the same.

Unfortunately, ING seems to be keeping it's Russian operations. Since the war started, I've moved my super out of ING (and am now saving a heap in fees).

I also have my mortgage and a savings account with them. I'm reaching out to a few mortgage brokers as I'm going to be switching regardless, but are any of the brokers on here able to support those of us doing the right thing by offering some good deals for soon to be ex-ING customers?

What other Australian businesses should i be avoiding?

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Comments

  • cashless on 10/03/2022 - 08:38

    but are any of the brokers on here

    Brokers on OzBargain? I thought this was a website for bargains, not mortgage brokers

    • Forfiet on 10/03/2022 - 09:00
      +13

      Nah, plenty of broke ppl here…. myself included :P

  • sjj89 on 10/03/2022 - 08:41
    +44

    Better stop purchasing and using all products made in China then

    • Ryanek on 10/03/2022 - 08:43
      -3

      Why?

      • sjj89 on 10/03/2022 - 08:54
        +16

        They are still doing a lot of business with Russia, particularly purchasing oil.

        • Ryanek on 10/03/2022 - 09:22
          -3

          That's not going to change, China is their biggest ally. But they're also not the ones invading.

          • sjj89 on 10/03/2022 - 09:26
            +35

            @Ryanek: Then ING are fine also, they’re not invading

            • Ryanek on 10/03/2022 - 10:29

              @sjj89: If you're suggesting we impose sanctions on China, Australia will crash.

              • [Deactivated] on 10/03/2022 - 10:52
                +20

                @Ryanek: @ranek they're pointing out the "pick and choose" mentality of the OP.

                They want to boycott ING because they sell stuff in Russia, but then will presumably gladly buy stuff that's made in China - who supports Russia.

                End of the day, a consumer isn't going to be able to do much. It's the business itself. Look at Mcdonalds.

              • G-Bard on 11/03/2022 - 11:36
                -1

                @Ryanek: I think you mean 'the world' will crash?

                Well, temporarily at least …

    • dogboy on 10/03/2022 - 10:23

      Have been trying…

    • FreeUyghur on 10/03/2022 - 12:21

      yes

  • Slippery Otter on 10/03/2022 - 08:53
    +9

    ING Australia is seperate from ING Europe.

    • bemybubble on 10/03/2022 - 09:10

      Guilty by association :P

      • Dave Bowman on 10/03/2022 - 10:30
        +9

        bombed overnight

        I saw the news, the bomber planes had ING branding all over them.

    • orangetrain on 10/03/2022 - 10:54
      -1

      Doesn't pass pub test.

  • djones145 on 10/03/2022 - 09:27
    +4

    What about all the other global companies that have remained silent?

    we have heard some companies like maccas, shell, BP, coke, starbucks, pepsi, i think apple
    but what about others like (which might or might not have already)
    ebay
    amazon
    toyata
    eneloops
    100 things about thing books
    samsung
    nesspreso
    and many more

    are you going to move away from those as well until they pull out of Russia

    • orangetrain on 10/03/2022 - 10:31
      +5

      Yes

    • G-Bard on 11/03/2022 - 11:44
      +2

      Fair point!

      I mean lots of ISIS vehicles are Hilux!

    • wibk on 11/03/2022 - 20:24
      +1

      ebay - suspended delivery since March 3
      amazon - suspended shipments, streaming and video game services since March 9
      toyota - halted production and export to Russia (but claims that this is because of logistical issues)
      eneloops - panasonic (the current owner of eneloops brand) has suspended transactions since March 4
      samsung - suspended shipment of all products to Russia (debatable, I think they have not made a clear statement whether this is temporary or not)
      nespresso - nestle (the current owner of nespresso brand) has stopped investments in Russia and pulling out most of its products

      I am not saying every company has made meaningful actions towards pulling out of Russia, but many have even if you consider a list that a rando from ozbargain came up with.

  • EightImmortals on 10/03/2022 - 09:34
    +15

    Yeah! Boycott everything!

    "The International Cat Federation has banned Russian cats from international competitions.."

    "Stolichnaya vodka plans to rebrand their product to sound less Russian. This comes on the tail of restaurants, businesses, and bars refusing to sell any product with Russian branding"

    The world is being run by three-year-olds. Don't be one of them. Or if you do then at least be consistent and ban all U.S., Australian and British products because of their unprovoked war in the middles east that has killed way more innocent people than Russia has in the Ukraine. Or is it OK when we do it?

    • orangetrain on 10/03/2022 - 10:44

      Not okay when we do it. Hopefully there'll be sanctions and/or John Howard arrested and tried for invading countries.

    • Autonomic on 11/03/2022 - 09:49
      +2

      We shouldn't have a reaction to Russia invading a sovereign country unprovoked?

      • EightImmortals on 11/03/2022 - 10:29
        +2

        Who's 'we'?
        As an individual you are free to choose any reaction you like.
        I was just pointing out the usual double-standards and hypocrisy present in society, all societies.

        I see META/FB has changed it's policy to make it OK to call for violence against Russians now (* with 'rules' of course)
        https://news.yahoo.com/exclusive-facebook-instagram-temporar…

        As for 'unprovoked' that seems to be VERY much a claim only justified by those with little knowledge of the history of the area and/or people with agendas. No war is good and no politician or government is good either. My complaint in this case is the hypocrisy demonstrated by those who ignore the atrocities and wars committed by our politicians yet rage against other governments when 'they' do it. In the end it is the innocent people who suffer, those, who like us only want to live their lives in peace and safety but have absolutely ZERO say in what their governments do. SACK THEM ALL!

        (I didn't neg you either. )

        • Autonomic on 11/03/2022 - 10:45
          -1

          It's a simple question, no need for whataboutism. And the war was unprovoked unless you're stretching the definition of words until they're meaningless.

          • EightImmortals on 11/03/2022 - 10:57

            @Autonomic: At least I answered your question. That seems to be more effort than you can muster. So who is 'we' and what reaction are 'we' supposed (according to you) to be having?

            • Autonomic on 11/03/2022 - 11:04
              -1

              @EightImmortals: Seems like you're caught on up semantics so let me re-phrase.

              Should no one have a reaction to Russia invading Ukraine?

              • EightImmortals on 11/03/2022 - 11:08

                @Autonomic: It's not for me to say how any other individual makes their own choices. You are free to react in any way you feel like (as long as you aren't hurting anyone else) and it should be OK for me to choose my own responses also.

                • Autonomic on 11/03/2022 - 11:25

                  @EightImmortals: Yet you're here criticising OP for boycotting ING.

                  it should be OK for me to choose my own responses a

                  And your response is to not have any reaction?

                  • EightImmortals on 11/03/2022 - 11:26
                    +1

                    @Autonomic: Yes.

                    • Autonomic on 11/03/2022 - 11:35
                      -1

                      @EightImmortals: Very callous.

                      • EightImmortals on 11/03/2022 - 11:59

                        @Autonomic: Not really. I have always spoken out against warmongers and government violence regardless of which government/organisation is doing it. I am well aware of the suffering being inflicted on the innocent especially during the western governments war in the middle east and now the war in Ukraine. If I allowed myself to get upset over every atrocity that I have no influence over I would have had a hearty decades ago.

                        There was a saying back in the 60's "Imagine they held a war and no one came" and I feel this sentiment is going to be part of the solution to governments and their penchant for war and destruction. As a race we've been doing war and violence for literally thousand of years, if that was the solution to ANYTHING then we would have found world peace a very long time ago.

                        Callous? Maybe. Or maybe I just refuse to dance to the tune being called by our real enemies?

                        "We played the pipe for you and you did not dance, we sang a dirge and you did not mourn"

                        Maybe the way out is to support our fellow citizens of the world who just want peace instead of inciting or supporting violence and hatred towards the aggressors? (The media-inspired hatred against all Russians and anything to do with Russia is patently absurd, Russians have no say in what Putin does just as we have no say in what our government does so why blame the innocent?) If we ignore the powers that be and stop giving them their power through our obedience maybe they will fade away and more mature, rational minds can prevail?

                        At least it has the virtue of never having been tried before.

                        • Autonomic on 11/03/2022 - 13:58
                          -2

                          @EightImmortals: No one's advocating invading and killing Russians or hatred of the Russian people.

                          support our fellow citizens of the world who just want peace
                          Russia is actively killing fleeing innocents, bombing childrens hospitals and airstriking breadlines. What are you doing to support those innocents?

                          You apparently lack the capacity to even speak out against that yet you're able to come here and criticise people for speaking out and taking action. Either remove yourself from the conversation or stop being a coward and accept your position is callous.

                          • EightImmortals on 11/03/2022 - 14:05

                            @Autonomic: Can you point out who I have criticised? (apart from politicians and government in general, niehter of whom are posting on this thread (that I know about).

                            • Autonomic on 11/03/2022 - 14:10
                              -1

                              @EightImmortals: You're clearly being sarcastic about boycotting Russian products in your original reply. You also said if he does so he's a 3 year old.

                              • EightImmortals on 11/03/2022 - 14:19
                                +1

                                @Autonomic: I provided 2 real life examples of the current absurdity.

                                My comment about infants running the world still applies and if you choose to follow those infants and act like them then yes, that observation would apply to. IMO of course.

  • ThithLord on 10/03/2022 - 09:43
    +1

    Go with Bank Australia. They invest ethically and in renewables.

    • Lastchancetosee on 11/03/2022 - 07:38

      Switched a couple of months ago for those reasons, and so far the service is good and housing loan rates are competitive.

  • rektrading on 10/03/2022 - 09:46
    -1

    The best time to buy cheap assets is during a crisis.

    Letting emotions dictate one's investment choices are for plebs.

    • BigBirdy on 11/03/2022 - 12:16

      The Mafia Motto.

      When someone wants to kill you, it's a great time to sell them a gun.

  • Diji1 on 10/03/2022 - 09:59
    +10

    If only there was this sort of response when Australia, USA and UK killed 12 million in a series of seven illegal wars starting with Iraq.

    These war criminals were interested in stealing oil. Rather than protecting their own borders after warning that this was going to happen since 1997.

    The USA is even calling for Putin to face the ICC when it refuses to recognise the jurisdiction of the ICC because it would be found guilty of war crimes on an industrial scale.

    • rektrading on 10/03/2022 - 10:06
      +8

      Nobody give a 💩 when 🗽 invaded, occupied and rekt 🇦🇫 for 20Y.

      One rule for 🗽 and one rule for the rest of the 🌍.

  • Dave Bowman on 10/03/2022 - 09:59
    +9

    The boycott on regular products is ridiculous. Do you really think the money in your bank account goes straight into Putin's war fund? Classic cancel culture bs. I can't even buy good vodka any more.

    You better hope China doesn't join in, or we'll have half our shelves stripped bare, and you'll need to return all of your electronics.

    • orangetrain on 10/03/2022 - 10:50
      -3

      Profits from using money in bank account goes to the parent company. The parent company will see a lot of potential profit in keeping the Russian arm alive even if it means higher taxes/kickbacks to Russian government.

      After all, the Russian government and oligarchs are desperate for money. Which means charging high interest.

      I think China is terrified on joining in because of widespread boycotts, even here.

  • [Deactivated] on 10/03/2022 - 10:00
    +15

    What an odd hill to die on.

    Do you buy anything made in China? Yes? Then why do you support companies that support the CCP regime and the torture of millions of uyghurs including forced organ harvesting?

    Do you buy anything with palm oil in it?

    It's easy to feel good about yourself for one thing, but ignoring the others. You leaving ING as a consumer will have zero impact on their operations or decisions. And also ING Australia is not the same as ING Europe. hilarious.

    • djones145 on 10/03/2022 - 10:04
      +15

      i saw a cloud that look like russia, i yelled at it
      made me happy

    • [Deactivated] on 10/03/2022 - 10:53
      +4

      let the little virtue signallers live with their heads in the sand.. lest they wake up and try to cancel you as well

  • mutnyi2001 on 10/03/2022 - 12:13
    +4

    Your mind has been zombied by the media which in turn MUST be on the side of USA as the latter is an ally of Australia.

    Now, turn on your brain. USA is almost self sufficient on oil and gas, and the main energy supplier to UK. Those two countries initiated the ban of the Russian oil and gas.

    Go for a drive and look at the prices at the petrol stations. The real application- the value of your savings have dropped minimum by 10% overnight due to inevitable price increase by that number. And because of what? Because of that smily oldy man in America has made you believe that it is a must for you to bear.

    Sometimes people need to use what the nature has given to them- BRAIN.

    • Autonomic on 11/03/2022 - 09:49
      +1

      I'm on the side of not bombing hospitals full of sick children.

    • CacheHunter on 11/03/2022 - 12:22
      -1

      A 10% drop in my savings due to inflation is trivial compared with what many Australians are freely donating out of their savings to provide aid to refugees from Ukraine (and all of the other parts of the world where aid agencies funded by donations are keeping people alive/safe).
      However, I realise that many people on ozbargain won't be interested in giving away money to others and are here to save money and look after themselves. Others though, want to save money and free up room in their budgets so that they can afford to give away more to people who need help.

      Anyway, your argument doesn't make sense. Whether there is a smiley man or not somewhere, is irrelevant. What I know is that there are millions of Ukranians currently being killed injured and forced to flee their homes and country.
      Sometimes, people need to use what nature has given them - a HEART. How are you using yours? What are you doing to help? Or are you choosing to look away and not care?

      • mutnyi2001 on 11/03/2022 - 17:51
        +4

        Where is/was your HEART when millions of children and women are killed and dying from starvation in civil wars in Africa every single day continously? What did you do or keep doing to people/relatives in Iraq during the USA illegal war? Where was/is your HEART when more than 6m people died from COVID? This list may continue endlessly.

        Still dont get it?

        Ok. One more attempt. Donation/help decisions are dependent on YOUR opinion and YOUR willingness/capability to donate. It is not mandatory for everyone.

        What you are trying to sell in this post is IT IS MANDATORY FOR EVERYONE to get involved in this particular conflict, regardless of their opinions.

        What Im trying to tell you- it is not Mr American Friend or YOU who make these decisions on other peoples' behalves.

        Hope it helps. If not, at least Ive tried…

  • djones145 on 10/03/2022 - 20:09
    +5

    has ozbargain limited Russians from entering the site and posting or collecting bargains?

    if not does that mean u have to boycott ozbargain?

    • CacheHunter on 11/03/2022 - 12:13
      -2

      Would I advocate a ban on Russian bargains on Ozbargain? Only if that might cause the Russian Government to reconsider killing and wounding innocent people. I doubt that Putin cares about Ozbargain. However, he would care if all western banks withdrew from Russia, thus making it harder for him to finance his government and economy.

      • djones145 on 13/03/2022 - 10:41

        like batman, cytro currency has no boundaries and can't be stopped

        that's the way around for Russian government

  • tabitha731 on 11/03/2022 - 08:18

    I left ING years ago, after knowing how they work( i briefly contracted in the company) and i was appalled by their company ethics, and they staff in general, glad it was only a short contract.

  • ozboygsl on 11/03/2022 - 09:19
    +2

    You actually believe the abc?????

  • Strikes on 11/03/2022 - 10:14
    +4

    Did you do the same when USA invaded Iraq and Afghanistan ?

    • LFO on 11/03/2022 - 14:50
      +1

      Did I hear Palestinians?

  • Offshorehub on 11/03/2022 - 10:49

    Understand the disappointment or anger or whatever feeling but please be rational and consistent. Hope it does not get to the point of the extremes: rejecting/banning people from X, have travelled to X, speak X language, things designed, produced or assembled in X, […]. And the list goes on and on. The leader of Y was allegedly labelled as a liar should then Z ban everything related or associated to Y. Please no! The international society would be in such a mess and hope it never happens. Personally, I do not want to punish people and things that are not directly related to things that I don't like. For some, it may just be doing business or keeping jobs to make the ends meet and not so much about politics or ethics.

    Bushfire, pandemic, floods, petrol price spike due to international tension, still not enough? Now want to ban / cancel / reject?

    I do not know if this can be seen as a provocation or an encouragement in this forum to ban certain entity, party or country (ies) which is very political in nature, in my opinion.

    • CacheHunter on 11/03/2022 - 12:33

      which is very political in nature, in my opinion.

      Regardless of who you think should govern Ukraine (which I agree is a political question), I would argue that caring about innocent civilians who are being bombed, shot, forced to flee is not. Are you saying that whether it is ok that babies in a maternity hospital should be bombed, but is just a matter of political opinion?

      • Offshorehub on 11/03/2022 - 18:40

        It is what it is.

        Please bear in mind that state and governments in conflict are likely to take all sort of propaganda to try and shape international public opinion they think works for their benefits. Again, the fact/data/news may and can be twisted/edited/portrayed in a very different way. It is not unusual for parties in conflict to use deception, exploit/use human shield (some countries are reported evacuating their citizens engaging in human shield or other activity related to the conflict), invite foreigners to join the conflict (feel like the Middle East de javu, ey?), lure/bait enemy to attack target specifically set for certain goals, etc. I personally find it very appalling when both leaders dragging the whole world into it. Why? For what? For whom? At what/whose expense? Again this will go back to the points above. I think it is not a level playing field when when it comes to media reporting/opinion.

        I do NOT take sides. I only want PEACE period. Oh please I hope/believe people will not and shall not sanction / cancel / ban / reject countries (some say: either you are foe or friend! Please do not do this, Karen / Jack !), people, entities who do not take sides, want to remain neutral in the conflict, want to be friendly and friends with everyone.

        Best solution would be peace, diplomacy and negotiation but another viable solution would be removing leader(s) from one or both sides through voluntary resignation (a bit unlikely) and open/secret local- and/or foreign-orchestrated acts of removal by force.

        At the times of war or dispute at whatever level, blaming and to try to attempt to decide who is right or wrong, who started it first, who retaliate not in proportion, etc, is all but not very useful. It can be very subjective, futile, biased, and inconclusive at best. As many say, history is written by the victor (read: the international public opinion takes it that whoever wins means they are (regarded as) hero/main actor/correct/right/…). I say this because many believe that the leaders of the two (and others) SHALL STOP in pursuing or defending whatever believe/ideology/ethics/politics in the name of the wellbeing and future of the people/nation AT THE EXPENSE OF the people lives, jobs, future, family, prosperity, civilization, innocent civilians, peace, friendship, global/national economy, etc. It is very much like what you do / are doing, in my opinion.

        The 'victim' is probably our Australian mates, friends and fellows who lost businesses, jobs, future, opportunity, etc.

  • CacheHunter on 11/03/2022 - 12:09
    -1

    I get that the West has not been consistent, but there has not ever been state sanctioned violence directed at civilians. Yes, it has become clear that even some Australians committed war crimes in Afghanistan. However, these are being/have been investigated and prosecuted. If an Australian government didn't oppose violence directed at civilians I would vote against them and vote for a party that would prosecute any war crimes.

    Russia is bombing residential areas, shelling civilians while trying to evacuate, snipers shooting at mothers trying to carry babies to safety…

    We can either stand on the sidelines and do nothing to help, or do what little we can to help. As I see it, we can do two things:
    (i) donate to international relief agencies working to provide humanitarian aid to those Ukranians that have left everything behind and fled (in exactly the same way that most Australians are giving to charaities helping those affected by our own floods etc), and
    (ii) do what we can to apply pressure on the Russian economy to make the Russian Government stop harming more Ukranians.

  • LFO on 11/03/2022 - 14:49

    LOL

    Isn't ING kinda Dutch ????????

    Will you also be boycotting all of China produce for not censoring Russia?

    Focus your anger with what you know is actually true, factual and can be corroborated with your own eyes … like: DEVASTATING FLOODS IN AUSTRALIA

    Think local.
    Help them.
    Help locals first.

    • CacheHunter on 11/03/2022 - 17:19

      @LFO Does it have to be either, or?

      I've given half the money that i had saved to replace my 17 year old car to flood related charities because, as you say, help locals first.

      Isn't it reasonable to also do what we can to create economic pressure on the Russian government to stop killing innocent civilians in Ukraine too? Especially if switching banks is closer to free apart from the hassle and time of filling in the refinancing paperwork and changing a few direct debits?

      • LFO on 12/03/2022 - 15:02

        Isn't it reasonable to also do what we can to create economic pressure

        Probably it might be. If there is a real, credible justification.

        But creating "sanctions" and actions that PUNISH ourselves is utterly stupid.

        Someone else sanction the buying of oil and WE END UP PAYING more for fuel.
        How STUPID that sanction is.

        Within your specific "actions" you have now to waste time and effort to change billing and other paperwork.
        Your "sanction" only punished YOURSELF.
        Utterly nonproductive sanction.

        Reminds me of an imbecile shown on TV dumping Russian Vodka as a "sanction".
        He bought and paid for that vodka, such an IMBECILE.
        "Russia" got his money from the vodka, IDIOT!
        Self punishment!

        MASOCHISTS!!!!

    • Offshorehub on 11/03/2022 - 18:52
      +1

      And do not forget that India / China are reported abstain in the UN voting to determine a formal unified action/response for/to the conflict. Are people going to sanction / cancel / ban / reject India or things/people associated with or related to India? Why India is dragged into this? That is exactly one of the points I discussed above. And then why China and other countries are (need to) also (be) dragged into this?

      Leave India, China and other countries alone!

  • jv on 11/03/2022 - 17:58

    What other Australian businesses should i be avoiding?

    ING is Dutch, not Australian.

  • Jared17 on 12/03/2022 - 07:52
    +2

    Nah. I would have boycotted all US UK AUS Israel products if I am going to act on my high horse.

  • CacheHunter on 12/03/2022 - 09:01

    I've been interested to see the number of people who are saying it's not our business, why should we get involved.
    The logic seems to be, don't get involved and hope for "peace for our time".
    We should all know how that turned out last time? I'm genuinely curious why do many people seem comfortable doing nothing?

    Is it that they don't think they can make a difference, things are different this time, or they just don't care what happens to people in other countries?

    • popsiee on 12/03/2022 - 09:31
      +4

      OP you have no clue .
      The biggest threat here is China and the military expansion of the South China sea.
      Are you boycotting Chinese products ?

      I know the answer . I'm sick of people that pay attention to whatever is on front of mainline news services and where the threat is .

    • LFO on 14/03/2022 - 14:27
      +1

      or they just don't care what happens to people in other countries?

      Do you happen to remember those terrible "Weapons of Mass Destruction"?

      Haven't you?

      Caring and being led like a dummy is very different.

  • djones145 on 12/03/2022 - 09:36

    don't worry, maccas is here to stop the war
    https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/food/eat/maccas-masterstro…

    • rektrading on 12/03/2022 - 09:42

      Mickey D is punishing ordinary citizens for point scoring.

      • Baysew on 14/03/2022 - 14:30

        "Mickey D" is a clear indicator that someone is clueless about Australia.

  • T-man on 12/03/2022 - 23:49

    I am sure ING will care about you.

  • trapper on 14/03/2022 - 19:47
    +1

    If you want to help Ukraine then donating is your best bet, this virtue signalling is pointless and achieves nothing.

    • CacheHunter on 14/03/2022 - 21:48
      -1

      Thanks trapper. I agree, donating to help those who have fled is definitely important.

      I'm not interested in 'virtue signaling'. No-one on here knows my real name or email address (except maybe the mods?). I"d like to keep it that way, so don't care what anyone else in these forums thinks of my online pseudonym.

      My heart breaks to see the death and suffering Putin is inflicting. I also know that bullies rarely stop unless people stand up to them and feel a responsibility to stand up when i see others being bullied, harmed or victimized. I wish others had done the same for me when I was being bullied while younger. Obviously, based on the downvotes I've received, many ozbargainers feel differently.

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