Tricky Speeding Ticket Question - Should I Go to Court?

vasya on 11/03/2022 - 11:03
Last edited 12/03/2022 - 14:31

All

I'm a bit puzzled about what to do with a speeding ticket and looking for the community's valuable opinion (not legal advice) what is reasonable in my situation.

I was driving to a NSW regional town along Castlereagh highway (NSW) right after Christmas (double demerit points period). At a certain point after driving around 2-3 hours I stopped on a side road (around 100meters from the highway) to have a rest. After around 5 minutes a police car approached to me and police officer advised that he registered my car speeding some time beforehand. He kindly offered me to look at a device inside the police car. When I looked inside I noticed that on a big screen within the police car there was a photo of some other car. I advised the officer that he has registered the speed of some other's car, but the officer said that the photo on the screen is not relevant and my car will be seen in a video footage (referring to in-car camera).

Later I received appropriate penalty notice, however I haven't found any link to a video/photo footage. So I requested review of my case and asked to share the video/photo footage of my car speeding as I believe there might be an error identifying the correct car. Unfortunately NSW Revenue responded to me that the police officer confirmed that he is confident that he identified my car correctly, but NSW Revenue does not have access to the In-Car Video (ICV) system in police vehicles. So no footage has been provided and they suggested to contact NSW Police. NSW police on their website do not have any form for such a request and if I understand correctly expect a court to request such a recording.

My issue is I'm not sure whether I was speeding or not. Normally I use cruise-control for such drives, but this time the road was quite busy with traffic jams at certain locations so I didn't use it. Most of the time I followed a car in front of me maintaining safe distance as the highway has only one lane in each direction, it is not straight really and there are a lot of hills. I don't know at what moment in time the police officer registered my speed, so I can't be 100% confident that I didn't speed (especially given that it was my first long trip in 2 years due to COVID).

If I have a footage confirming my speeding of course I would just pay the fine. Without the footage it looks to me that I'm in a tricky situation - on the one side I'd prefer not to waste anybody's (including my own) time, on the other side double demerit points and a wrong car photo demonstrated by the officer. So the next step for me is either suck it up and pay the fine or go to court.

I've never been in a court and not going to spend money on lawyers, so I'm wondering does it make sense to try and go to court without lawyers and just explain my concern? Or attending the court without a lawyer is just wasting time and not how is normally done (to be honest I'm not even sure if I should plead guilty or not given my doubts above)?

UPD:
I called NSW Police and they advised that if I would like to see the footage I should elect to go to court and the footage will be part of their brief. That is the only option for me to see the footage

UDP2

I decided to pay the fine.

After @chillybags mentioned that I will have to attend the local court where the fine was issued I did some more search and found this:
https://www.lawaccess.nsw.gov.au/Pages/representing/lawassis…?

That means I will have to drive above 500 km (roundtrip) to go to court and given that the odds are quite high that I will not win (based on various responses), I don't think that it makes sense to go to court in my particular case.

Thank you all for your valuable inputs, they were very useful!

Automotive

Comments

  • Misplaced on 12/03/2022 - 09:54

    Can you not obtain the footage via Right To Information (RTI) in NSW? I would think this would be normal procedure in most states. If it had been a speed camera operated by Transport NSW you would have a few options: https://www.revenue.nsw.gov.au/fines-and-fees/camera-images

  • happydude on 12/03/2022 - 10:02
    +4

    Request it under the FOI Act.

  • ensanguined on 12/03/2022 - 10:18

    Could you use Google/Apple data to review your drive and see if there is a strong chance of you speeding or not?

  • OziVRod on 12/03/2022 - 10:58
    +2

    If you are an NRMA member, contact the NRMA (or RACx) legal department.
    My experience was that they formally contacted NSW Police on my behalf, explained the situation & sought a resolution.
    In my case - a "dangerous driving" offence & penalty when I crashed after my bike's front tyre slipped on a wet white line on the side of a road when riding under the speed limit & I ended up in hospital.
    The charge was withdrawn with a "do not do it again" letter from Police.

    If you are not a member, maybe a solicitors letter - its worth the money to save your points.

    Good luck

  • 2ForTheMoney on 12/03/2022 - 11:09

    If you haven't had an offence in 10 years you can have it waived by writing in

  • anthony t on 12/03/2022 - 11:14

    If you care enough (I would), go to a solicitor who does this stuff a lot. They'll tell you what to do, and may even be able to find out if there is video footage and see if it's caught you. Also, a lot of this may depend on your driving record over, say, the last 3-5 years (sorry if I missed it herein). A local solicitor is best bet. Lots of valuable opinions here, but the solicitor not only knows what you should do, the courts view your hiring them as a positive thing, meaning you're willing to pay to see it through and you 'feel' like you have a valid reason for your challenge. AT no time, ever, call the police into doubt on anything once it's in the legal system. Courts and judges really hate that.

    • ensanguined on 12/03/2022 - 11:39
      +2

      Solicitor would cost more than the fine kek.

  • adn on 12/03/2022 - 11:31
    +1

    Go to court and fight it.

  • Odin on 12/03/2022 - 11:48
    +2

    What a (profanity) up situation. The system seems designed to give you zero ability to contest the claim.

  • witsa on 12/03/2022 - 12:23
    +2

    "I called NSW Police and they advised that if I would like to see the footage I should elect to go to court and the footage will be part of their brief. That is the only option for me to see the footage"

    That's the bit that's outrageous and you should consider forwarding their advice to your local MP.

    There is simply no reason to not let you see the evidence. If anything, it'll ease the strain on the court system as most ppl will be able to just see whether to contest or not.

    • dufflover on 13/03/2022 - 13:13

      That's the bit that's outrageous and you should consider forwarding their advice to your local MP.

      I thought ACA was the more effective audience :P

  • Make it so on 12/03/2022 - 12:24
    +1

    Sounds like an officer who had to meet his quota for the day, and tried his luck. Go to court politely and say you're there because the car shown to go at the time wasn't yours. If they show a video with your car, then you just pay the fine.

  • payless69 on 12/03/2022 - 12:58
    -2

    Similar thing happened to me in Queensland: Got camera picture and from it it was 100% clear that the camera was faulty. Cops admited to but said that I had to pay first and then pay a FOI fee after 6 months and must take a lawyer to court! Else they are going to throw me into the new concentration camp built in Wellcamp! And remember a former QLD cop is going to flip the next fed election??

  • OzHunterNSW on 12/03/2022 - 14:22
    -2

    Take it to Court…. the Police have to prove it was you. Why didn't it show your number….
    Look…. you don't need lawyers….. you present yourself.
    You simply tell the court that you believe the officer is wrong…. and you would like the offer to show proof that it was you and was speeding

  • computer barn find on 12/03/2022 - 17:03

    If you go to court just make you get all evidence possible, do you have a gps camera, make sure to take clear photos of your car. Just be prepared for every argument. If you pay the fine you are admitting that you are guilty. Just say the police officer showed you the picture and it wasn't your car. Pretty dodgy that they say they can't show you the photo, do you have the phone call recorded so you can play it in court otherwise its just your word. Wouldn't the picture show the number plate, would be pretty easy to see if it is your car. The police officer will get a bollocking by his boss he is fining the wrong people.
    Seems like a confusing issue to let the judge decide, isn't that what they are for. Just turn up and state the facts and nothing more, either you are guilty or not.

  • Mikestar55555 on 12/03/2022 - 17:33
    +2

    Thought I would pop my two cents in since I did go to court for an (alleged) driving infringement. I understand you've already paid, but just to let you know how it can go down.
    Had to attend court 3 times, second time was adjourned because police still hadn't provided body cam footage to me.
    Sent through 10 emails to both police and highway patrol.
    Received a faulty disc which supposedly had the recording.
    Four more emails later, eventually got a link to the recording.
    Did not show any evidence of infringement (which for the record was driving through a yellow/red light)
    Argued unable to prove it happened (there were 2 officers and 3 of us in the car with driver's record having no fines/infringements and good driving record of 35 years)
    Case dropped.
    Total time invested ~18 hours (a quarter of which was just being on hold) - over a period of 9 months
    Total money spent $150 (on two ubers to and from court plus fuel when driving personal vehicle)
    Fine total ~$450
    Hourly pay around $38/hr (so technically speaking I lost money due to using my time)
    Justice? Delivered, no demerit point or fine
    Worth it? Hard to say, was stressful/annoying but did feel vindicated at the end, up to you to determine

    • vasya on 12/03/2022 - 19:19
      +2

      thanks for sharing the info.

      I decided to pay, but haven't paid it yet - I will pay last day and in the meantime that money will save a couple of cents in my offset account.

      I guess your story just supports my decision, even if I win I might lose more.

    • [Deactivated] on 13/03/2022 - 14:56

      Should have asked for costs and reasonable sustenance. Reasonable and lawful to do so. Although can't charge for your time spent on your own case - only 'lawyers' are allowed to do that - a case of rules for thee and not for me

  • gimli on 12/03/2022 - 18:04

    Just curious were you speeding or not?

    • MontyMacaw on 12/03/2022 - 18:32
      +3

      I advise the defendant not to answer that question
      😜

  • cute as duck on 13/03/2022 - 08:38

    Did you have a dashcam that recorded your speed?

  • diddy50 on 13/03/2022 - 09:32
    +2

    This is the thing with speeding fines. It's a reverse onus of proof.

    The police don't need to prove you are speeding, you have to prove you didn't speed. It sucks

    • Davo1111 on 14/03/2022 - 19:04

      they already have the proof (laser speed detection), so it's a defence.

      If you rob a bank, and the cops catch you mid robbery, the onus is on you to prove your innocence.

  • Davo1111 on 13/03/2022 - 23:42

    Oh stop the crap, you paid the fine because you're guilty.

    So far your "evidence" is that you saw a pic of another car on his work computer. Which is probably anpr and not linked to the laser.

    • hasher22 on 21/03/2022 - 21:39

      500km round trip to appear in their courts, we don't know what car they're driving, given that petrol is $2+ a liter, I would pay the fine as well. Sucks for the points.

      That's the thing with the justice system and process. Innocent people pay the fine as it's easier to do so than to gather evidence and contest in court as the court has their own fees if someone loses. So an average joe that wants to contest it, you have to weigh up if its just easier to pay than to battle it and I wonder how much money the government has made on innocent people.

      • Davo1111 on 22/03/2022 - 01:52

        people ALWAYS play down their own guilt. Go and ask a friend if they've ever got a ticket, there will always be a crap excuse/justification/revenue raiser comment. Or just watch sport where someone fouls another player - "yeah it was a deliberate foul" said nobody ever.

        • OP hasnt explicity said they were not speeding
        • The second monitor showing a different vehicle is their main gripe. The cop even clarified at the time it was unrelated.
        • The 500km round trip is just an excuse to make them feel better about themselves.

        If OP was so sure that they were not speeding, then the question would have been about what the monitor is/does, and how it relates to the laser gun

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