Can My Employer Require Me to Find/Train a Replacement for Me to Go on a Holiday?

nuttapillar on 06/04/2022 - 07:28

I asked my boss if I can go on a 2 week holiday.
(I've been working nearly nonstop for nearly 4 years with almost no time off, and have over 400 hours of annual leave saved up (haven't taken any at all yet).

They said I'd have to train someone to cover me. But I'm not even a proper manager, just a supervisor. I feel like since I've given like 1.5 months' notice, I should be able to take it, and it's up to the managers to work it out. It's not my fault the store is understaffed. We should already have enough trained people to be able to cover someone going on holiday.
It's a 24 hour store, and every night there must be a night supervisor on. There are only 2 of us, so we rotate. If one of us takes time off, the other has to do extra shifts.
What are the facts on this?

Education & Work

Comments

  • thatonethere on 06/04/2022 - 07:33
    +14

    You can always quit. And find a new job at a well run workplace when you return from your holiday.

    • nuttapillar on 06/04/2022 - 07:38
      +6

      That would be nice haha. But I kinda don't mind my job. I admit it's poorly run, but I get decent money for being mostly uneducated. If I went anywhere else, I'd get less money, or much harder work. I'm hoping to hold out here until I get enough education under my belt to get into a good paying IT job. Im determined to get a house soon, so I need to keep that money flowing, and I kinda made a rule for myself to not accept another job unless it pays more. I must always be moving upwards.

      • onetwothreefour on 06/04/2022 - 09:59
        +7

        but I get decent money

        Didn't you say you earn 50k on another thread where you were thinking of buying a house?

        • [Deactivated] on 06/04/2022 - 17:36

          chuck chuckl chuckle

        • nuttapillar on 08/04/2022 - 19:31

          Yes. 50K is decent for fast food. Most are on like 30-40k

          • Woody982 on 09/04/2022 - 11:10
            +1

            @nuttapillar: 50k is decent outside of fast food as well…

            • nuttapillar on 11/04/2022 - 09:03

              @Woody982: yeah, most jobs pay more than fast food. It's notorious for being a low-pay field, Which is my point. Considering this, then 50k isn't terrible. (relatively speaking)

  • avoidfullprice on 06/04/2022 - 07:33
    +5

    Facts are:
    * You're burnt out
    * At minimum do a hand over, including processes
    * Check your employment contract

    • nuttapillar on 06/04/2022 - 07:36
      +2

      What do you mean by your second point?

      • azvc on 06/04/2022 - 07:42
        +9

        Essentially a document that contains (if relevant)

        • a description of your daily tasks and processes
        • key day-to-day activities
        • access to all relevant spreadsheets and files
        • project deadlines and status updates
        • information about any regular/recurring meetings
        • a list of key contacts – customers, clients, stakeholders, managers
        • any ongoing issues affecting projects
        • housekeeping – location of keys, stationery, tools etc.

        Some reference on why and how - https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/10-helpful-hints-writing-hand…

        • nuttapillar on 06/04/2022 - 07:48
          +1

          Oh right, so leaving notes and info for the guy taking over. Well he'd need to be fully trained and know what he's doing to run the shifts anyway, and every night shifts is basically the same, so that handover stuff wouldn't be too relevant.

          • inasero on 06/04/2022 - 10:35
            +4

            @nuttapillar: Yeah some people here have sad lives and get their kicks from downvoting comments without justification. Here's a positive to cancel that out

      • nuttapillar on 06/04/2022 - 07:50
        +17

        Wow, someone downvoted for me asking for a clarification? Why are people on ozbargain so shit? It's like Reddit and Imgur all over again. Find something better to do, like getting a better attitude.

        • Caped Baldy on 06/04/2022 - 08:41
          +4

          Unfortunately, there's a few clowns among us.

        • lew380 on 07/04/2022 - 09:14
          +4

          Its character building, your not supposed to care what random people on the internet think.

  • AustriaBargain on 06/04/2022 - 07:37
    +4

    Take 10 weeks off instead.

  • pegaxs on 06/04/2022 - 07:39
    +13

    Not your responsibility to “find” a replacement, that is their responsibility.

    And as long as you are training the new person on company time, how hard is it to show someone what you do? Now, if they expect you to come in on your time and train the person and not pay you to train them, again, not your problem, you don’t have to train them for free.

    • nuttapillar on 06/04/2022 - 07:44

      I'm willing to train someone, but we've had a lack of people willing to do the overnights who I can actually train, let alone anyone competent enough to be a night supervisor. We tried getting one of the day crew trained for overnights, but he's too slow and will be going back to days. Luckily we finally got a new guy training for overnight crew who is actually pretty good, so I suggested to the manager that we train him to the level where he can cover shifts. We really do need an extra person to cover shifts, so the two of us existing workers don't have to come in sick or or do extra shifts to cover each other etc. But the question now is if they accept, whether I'll be able to get them ready in time for me to go on my holiday before University starts up in late June.

      • nuttapillar on 06/04/2022 - 07:46
        -1

        But I also worry that if I train someone up to my level, that they might give a bunch of my supervisor shifts to the new guy.
        In the past I already had to train brand new workers as my own supervisor while I was still crew, wanting to move up to that position

        • habek on 06/04/2022 - 07:51
          +1

          Then you have to show that you would be a better choice as a supervisor.
          That's the working world, everyone is trying to set themselves for better position unfortunately. And you just have to work it out and show that you are the better person for the role.

        • Drakesy on 06/04/2022 - 11:31
          +2

          If that's their attitude towards you then you should give them a similar response in loyalty.

          Employers are on notice for the first time in a decade and the Labour market is constrained enough for them to be competitively jumping over each other.

          And FWIW in government you can get a cushy desk job, with zero employees under you returning $80k+ super a year easily.
          Just need to get use to the bureaucracy.

        • jolee3 on 06/04/2022 - 12:59
          +4

          A good supervisor shouldn't withhold knowledge from others because they are worried about others taking their job. A good supervisor should share what they know but also consistently show that they are good at what they do and deserve to be the supervisor.
          Refusing to train someone might be advantageous for your job security in the immediate future but that attitude won't help your long term career progression.

  • habek on 06/04/2022 - 07:49
    +1

    If you are a Supervisor, and you have a team, i believe it is part of your role to ensure your area's duties are covered while you are going on leave with someone in your team that you think is capable.

    Not for the sake of the company, but for the sake of your own workload when you return to work and find everything is in a mess when done by someone that does not have the capability to cover your role.

    • nuttapillar on 06/04/2022 - 07:52

      It's a fast food shop, so there's not really much opportunity for a mess to get left for a long time. every day is like a new reset I guess. No long-term projects. Even if they are being lazy while I'm gone, there's not much that could pile up for when I get back.

      • Caped Baldy on 06/04/2022 - 08:46
        +1

        Like a big fast food shop?? They should have processes in place for replacements..

      • nuttapillar on 06/04/2022 - 09:21
        -2

        More downvotes from people who don't understand the situation. Ozbargain users really are shit.
        It's hard to explain, but it's almost impossible for jobs to build up over the course of weeks. Don't believe me? Come and work here then…

        • kolorijo on 06/04/2022 - 10:55
          +2

          for 2 weeks as night supervisor? nice try op ;p

        • Quantumcat on 06/04/2022 - 10:55
          +5

          Your employer is responsible for having enough staff to cover sick and annual leave. You might be responsible for training them (on company time) but you can't be expected to find and hire new staff as a condition for being allowed to take your annual leave. If the company can't find a replacement that's their problem, the boss will have to do the night shifts, or close the store.

        • Caped Baldy on 06/04/2022 - 22:49
          +2

          More downvotes from people who don't understand the situation.

          We're not mindreaders, mate. Personally, I haven't negged and am just trying to get more info from you, like many others. It's not your responsibility to find a replacement, it is your manager's. People are probably getting frustrated because you're being a bit difficult by withholding info.

          Also, you have to get over being butt hurt from neg votes. It's annoying but whinging just encourages more.

  • Muzeeb on 06/04/2022 - 07:53

    have over 400 hours of annual leave saved up (haven't taken any at all yet).

    Is 400 hours accrued leave in 4 years even correct?

    How many weeks a year are you entitled to?
    How many hours a week do you work?

    • original15 on 06/04/2022 - 08:31

      Standard would be 4 weeks leave a year (160hrs accrued a year give or take). Possible, depending on company policy and forcing (cough strongly encouraging) leave to be taken during the year

      • Muzeeb on 06/04/2022 - 08:36

        So op should have around 700+ hours in the bank if they are full time.

        • nuttapillar on 06/04/2022 - 09:19

          I'm classed as part time, but I do roughly 34 hours a week

          • pao2x on 06/04/2022 - 09:42
            +1

            @nuttapillar: Then you should have a prorata annual leave around 85% of full time leave if you do 34 hours per week

          • garetz on 06/04/2022 - 11:24

            @nuttapillar: Sounds like they are ripping you off.

          • nuttapillar on 08/04/2022 - 19:35
            -1

            @nuttapillar: wow, downvoted again, for literally answering an enquiry. I wish we could name and shame the scum. Don't you guys have anything better to do?

      • Drakesy on 06/04/2022 - 16:13
        +1

        4 weeks x 5 days x 8 hours = 128 hours a year <<160 hours

        4 years of no leave is 640

        34/40 = 85%

        85% of 640 is 544 hours

        OP should have 544 hours to use up or 68 days

  • capslock on 06/04/2022 - 08:19
    +2

    It must feel good to be irreplaceable.

  • rektrading on 06/04/2022 - 08:19

    It's not difficult for a super to put up an ad online.

    Just do the part and wait for someone to take the bait.

  • holdenmg on 06/04/2022 - 08:25

    Hi,

    The question in my mind is how long it would take to train someone to be proficient in this timeslot.

    It doesn't seem reasonable that you are precluded from a holiday until someone is ready or competent.

    Can the other night supervisor train someone or maybe the training/responsibility should be done by someone else…

    Can they get someone from another fast food shop (if a chain) to cover for 2 weeks?

    I can see, it isn't a normal 9-5 job where if something happens there is the same level of support and you don't want people calling you on holiday at 3am

  • bobbified on 06/04/2022 - 08:55
    +2

    They said I'd have to train someone to cover me. But I'm not even a proper manager, just a supervisor.

    As long as you're being paid for the time, I don't see why you think it can't be part of your job to train someone. In smaller organisations, it helps when employees can be flexible. It happens even in large organisations. The employee who are doing the role would probably know the role best so it would only make sense for training to come from them. Be thankful that you're not training someone that will be replacing you because that's what happens in the corporate environment when they shift their operations overseas to get cheap labour.

    (I've been working nearly nonstop for nearly 4 years with almost no time off, and have over 400 hours of annual leave saved up (haven't taken any at all yet).

    Was this a choice? I find it very hard to believe that they've refused to let you take leave over the past 4 years and you're still working there. I think anyone else, including myself, would've quit a long long time ago!

    • nuttapillar on 06/04/2022 - 09:17
      -1

      Nah, in the past I have just not bothered taking time off. Wasn't forced.
      And yeah of course I'd get paid to train someone. My concern was that I mightnt have time to do so, or they won't did someone who I can train, and thus miss out on the holiday. But I sent them a stern message, and it seems I misunderstood them.

      • bobbified on 06/04/2022 - 10:59
        +2

        I'm in the corporate world, so things might be a little different. The couple of weeks before I go on leave (if it's anything more than a week or so), I start handing stuff over to whoever is going to cover for me. If they don't have someone, then I write "handover" notes and on the day I start leave, you can be sure I'm not going to be there! haha

        You shouldn't be missing out on your holiday if you can't train the person "in time" and I've never seen it happen to anyone else.

  • SF3 on 06/04/2022 - 09:18
    +2

    Train em’ and go on your holiday. Sounds like you are over thinking it.

    You've been work there for 4 years, so what you do should be straightforward to you and you should be able to operate in autopilot, if you are worth your salt.

    Someone new won't know where things are and how things work in the workplace.

  • JimmyF on 06/04/2022 - 09:23
    +4

    Can My Employer Require Me to Find/Train a Replacement for Me to Go on a Holiday?

    Train yes, find no..

  • trustnoone on 06/04/2022 - 11:05
    +1

    There's two parts to this question. So yes they can ask you to train a replacement, infact they should be so that you can go on holidays and its easier to approve. But NO you're not supposed to be the one to find them, your boss needs to, and its up to your boss to ensure your replacement is learning whats needed. Don't fall into the trap that they put it all on you (find and train) and then when your replacement stuffs up they blame you because you found/chose them and were to train them. I think this is the difference people aren't seeing in your question.

    It might be worth being upfront and saying "I'm going on leave at x date, as put in for approval y months ago. Please have some ready to take over my responsibilities for that time, I'm more then happy to show them the ropes until then".

    Also your employer needs to learn better BCP (business continuity planning), usually its recommended for employees to go on leave, so they don't have to pay out 400 hours if staff needs to leave their job, thats a big liability there if many staff are doing it.

  • garetz on 06/04/2022 - 11:16

    Give notice, seems like they dont respect you at all or care for their employees.

  • o53djz7qTPY4der on 06/04/2022 - 11:23
    -1

    Work for another 6 years without taking leave and then take LSL plus your accrued AL.

  • Philthy on 06/04/2022 - 13:31
    +1

    suprised HR hasnt spoken to you accruing so much leave..it's a liability!

    • st1ng on 06/04/2022 - 19:31
      +1

      This. Our boss is basically pleading with our team to take the days off between Easter and ANZAC Day as most of us took no significant leave over the past two years. I declined, but am taking a few weeks off in June.

    • freefall101 on 06/04/2022 - 21:22

      When they're a 24 hour business and have two trained employees to fill the job, it's not surprising they don't care about leave.

      It saves them hiring another employee, which is lower cost in the long run. If they're not a listed company worried about debt on the books, worried about the risks of employees never having breaks (which is often an audit thing, make sure they're out of the office to catch fraud), etc then it makes sense.

  • Euphemistic on 06/04/2022 - 19:42
    1. They should work with you to determine who will be filling in for you. Ultimately they need to decide who fills in, but you as a supervisor should have a say in who it is.
    2. You should show them what to do, but they should provide support to do so.

    IMO it’s completely normal for an employee to assist in training a replacement maybe not ‘training’ but definitely demonstrating how it’s done.

  • freefall101 on 06/04/2022 - 21:23

    It's pretty normal to help a new employee (or an old one upskilling) get up to speed in any industry.

    If they start asking you to work extra hours to do it then sure, it's a problem, but I think you'd be hard pressed trying to ask for higher duties pay or something just to train someone up a bit. What's the issue with it anyway?

    • cookie2 on 07/05/2022 - 20:05

      But it's not normal to tie your leave to whether or not someone can be sourced.

  • Stephen2 on 07/04/2022 - 08:09

    Disgusting, mate you're being taken advantage of. If you're so irreplacable, demand a huge raise.

    NOTE WELL: You are not "asking for time off", you are courteously informing your manager you will not be available to work for a specific period. They cannot deny your request because it's not a request.

    They will absolutely not fire you, you have all the power here. Don't be taken advantage of.

    • Woody982 on 07/04/2022 - 10:27
      +1

      Yeah that's not exactly true. For example alot of places don't allow holidays over certain periods of the year (busy periods like school holidays etc) - mine included.

      Sometimes you can't take them whenever, however in op's case, sounds like they are just saying someone needs to be trained to cover his shifts while he's gone. Nothing more, nothing less…

  • MontyMacaw on 07/04/2022 - 08:46
    +1

    I once found a replacement and they backstabbed their way into my job. Just sayin’.

    • kiitos on 07/04/2022 - 13:02
      +1

      How did that unfold? Thinking the same could happen where I am.

      • MontyMacaw on 07/04/2022 - 22:12
        +2

        They were a relief worker who liked what they saw and went after my job. Classic ruthless ladder climber. Once they are in your chair they want to be you.

  • Soundwave on 08/04/2022 - 10:13
    -1

    This is my personal opinion.

    1 - The boss/manager should look for your replacement, possibly with your help of recommending one of the staff.
    2 - Training them shouldn't be an issue as it seems like you have over a month to do so.

    This being said, your concern is valid that they may then use them after your holidays and therefore taking some of your shifts as you're only part-time.

    I'm not sure what your rosters are like. But if you cover nights where there are two main employees working under you during your work week, maybe train them both if they don't always the same days as you. So they can supervise during those shifts.

    So say Tom works with you Mon-Wednesday and Jerry works Thursday to Friday under your supervision. Instead of training Steve for the full time role Mon-Fri. Just train Tom and Jerry to cover those nights they work. I feel this will be less threatening to your job but also gives them experience to cover you later down the track. Unless you think they will then offer both of them supervisor jobs.

    But it all comes down to how the business is run and if the boss/manager approves.

    • nuttapillar on 08/04/2022 - 19:41
      -1

      I only work with one crew member each night, depending on which day it is. The main one, who is pretty good, doesnt want to be a supervisor. and they dont even want to work night shifts, but we're so shortstaffed theyve been forced to. they want to go back to days. The other one is a newish worker who is just temporarily filling the spot, and they're incredibly slow at the job and aren't interested in speeding up. So technically both of them are looking for replacements.

      • nuttapillar on 08/04/2022 - 19:41

        So if anyone's desperate for work… ;)

        • quill on 10/01/2024 - 10:44
          -1

          So what ended up happening? Did you go on holidays?

  • Vote for Pedro on 18/04/2022 - 21:37
    +2

    Short answer is no. You don’t need to find a replacement. Have you spoken to your union.

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