Metricon Going Bust: Should They Be Bailed out?

Trying2SaveABuck on 19/05/2022 - 16:30
Last edited 19/05/2022 - 17:15 by 1 other user

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-19/metricon-denies-insol…

Looks like the Victorian Government is meeting with Metricon to 'sort out' the situation in which it is on the verge of bankruptcy and could leave a 'large' number of properties not completed.

Simple question should we just let them go bust or should the tax payers prop them?

Also anyone caught up in the terrible situation happening at Metricon atm

My 2 cents: Let them go bust help the 'individual' and families who might of lost there deposit etc instead of the builder that was happy to ride the gravy train for this long. Ill not meticon has been sued in the past for 'dodgy slabs' in a development in the Sydenham Taylors Hill Suburbs of Victoria - so them going bust doesnt surprise.

Poll Options

  • 11
    Tax payers should bail them out
  • 701
    We should let them go bust
  • 19
    Government will prop them up but id rather they went bust
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Comments

  • rektrading on 19/05/2022 - 16:30
    +7

    Rekt.

    😆 😂 🤣

    • Brodo Faggins on 19/05/2022 - 17:21
      +36

      Agreed, rekt indeed.

      My 2c, if they get bailed out, every single company going into insolvency should be bailed out.

      What happened to free market?
      This is a good example of why Australia govts & property sector are crrupted.
      Some hush hush money under the table.
      Simply because the business has too many liabilities and insufficient cash inflow or capital.
      1 small interest rate hike from near nothing, and this property company is in tears.

      • rektrading on 19/05/2022 - 17:25
        +2

        The gov is backstopping the ruling 1% and screwing over the blue-collar working class and everyone below.

        • Brodo Faggins on 19/05/2022 - 17:28
          +5

          They've been doing that since who knows.
          Global objective: Destroy the middle class.

          Can't keep propping up the property cycle forever…
          Soon the cookie must crumble.
          FYI people - yes it's a damn cycle, like with anything else.

      • noshopping on 20/05/2022 - 16:34
        +1

        No bailouts, but if there's no option and I'm thinking of the thousands who will lose their homes… Maybe..
        Give them a loan with government ownership
        Wage caps on all board members/directors/managers.
        Give them an option to buy back their shares at full market value once they get back on their feet.

      • Thaal Sinestro on 20/05/2022 - 18:24
        +11

        The reality of life in a Westernized country: "Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor."

        Even when Albo is ruling our country, things won't change. People will find out Labor loves the rich and execrates the poor as much as the Libs do.

      • DrScavenger on 20/05/2022 - 21:10
        +8

        When individuals go broke it's their fault. When corporations go broke they must be bailed out by individuals tax money.

        • initiateit on 21/05/2022 - 10:22
          +2

          Yep. I lose my job or lose my house I don't get anyone bailing me out.

      • [Deactivated] on 21/05/2022 - 08:29
        +1

        The idea of bail out is not a hush hush money just because. But it is because otherwise the domino effect will cause bigger impact to the economy as a whole. It's not corrupted.

        For example, should Metricon really gone bust, then the other builders may gone bust too. Not to mention the home owners, tradies, staff that may gone into hardship/bankruptcy and needed short or long term centrelink supports.
        It's all about weighing pros and cons, which is worst for the country as a whole. Letting them bust, or keeping them afloat.

        They should fix that the problem of high costs in the first place.

        Also bailing out isn't always unconditional cash. In fact more often it is either a loan, stock or bond.

        Imagine where we would be had Qantas wasn't bailed?

        Note that so far it is just a rumour. Credit watch dog said that Metricon don't have any default reported, yet. I think it is true that the whole sector is under serious strain because the price has increased 20-30%.

        • rektrading on 21/05/2022 - 09:05
          +3

          Badly run businesses are meant to fail so that the 👍 ones can take their customers.

          It's what makes free markets fair markets.

      • itsfree on 22/05/2022 - 12:48

        Speaking of the property sector and insolvencies, it's surprising to me that there are talks of a bailout for Metricon, while ProBuild hasn't had such fortune. Instead, they have indeed relied upon the free market to bail them out.

    • Donaldhump on 21/05/2022 - 13:52

      You could bail them out with daily gains of 50%

      • rektrading on 21/05/2022 - 13:55
        +2

        I'm not interested in housing bubbles.

        I would rather grab a warm drink, sit back and watch it damp to zero.

  • Benoffie on 19/05/2022 - 16:36
    +34

    Businesses shouldn't be bailed. They have access to plenty of supports and should be instigating their appropriate administrative mechanisms early to prevent insolvency.

    People should have insurance.

    • Htu08 on 19/05/2022 - 16:45
      +7

      They do, and guess who the insurance is? The https://www.vmia.vic.gov.au/insurance/domestic-building-insu… oh wait is that the state government.

      • Benoffie on 19/05/2022 - 16:56
        +10

        Metricon is bigger than Victoria (I know, amazing).

        If people have insurance, they should claim. It's what it's there form (Govt run or not). Any Govt bail out would be propping up a clearly poorly run company and outside of its insurance jurisdiction, both bad calls.

        • Htu08 on 19/05/2022 - 17:02

          Nah, most of their homes are victorian.

          BUT every single state has the building insurance code.

          Ultimately, when Metricon fails, those builds get covered by the the state insurers, who basically now are forced to build the homes for the residentials, but the cost of completing a half-built house often exceeds the cost of building the low cost volume builds themselves.

          So pay like 200M to bail out VS pay ~500M to complete the homes.

          • sjj89 on 19/05/2022 - 18:44
            +4

            @Htu08: Pay the $500m every single day

            • StalkingIbis on 20/05/2022 - 17:21
              +4

              @sjj89: buy the company out, build the homes, employ people, run the company, even at a slight loss is better than handing over 200m for them to either get rich again or go bust again

          • mountaineer on 20/05/2022 - 16:25
            +2

            @Htu08: So this clearly indicates the design flaw of the insurance system which should be designed to 'remediate' anything in peril to the point as if this remedy didn't happen… not over do it …

          • Jackson on 20/05/2022 - 23:26
            +1

            @Htu08: Not the way it works in NSW to my knowledge, home warranty insurance will pay up to circa 330k to complete your home. If you can find someone to build your home for 330k good luck to you

            • Htu08 on 21/05/2022 - 17:33
              +1

              @Jackson: ya, but most of these volume contracts are sub 300k

              the value differential will be different between metricon vs external builder (who will definitely want basically full whack).

      • FlyingMiffy on 20/05/2022 - 15:11
        +6

        HIA insurances don't work that way either, there is an upper limit (from memory 250K or 300K) for when a builder goes bust. Also, for anyone who is mid way through a build, despite the potential insurance coverage, it is almost impossible to find someone else to continue as the liabilities that come from building on top of a slab, frame etc that you didn't put up yourself is too risky for many builders.

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 19/05/2022 - 16:38
    +12

    but the company strongly denied it is on the brink of collapse and said it has no solvency problem.

    Pack it up boys, case closed.

    /s

  • netjock on 19/05/2022 - 16:40
    +62

    All the tradies driving around in shiny HiLux and Ranger utes plus they might have a Merc AMG for the wife. They pay rest of their family via the company for lower tax rates. FHOG, HomeBuilder, $150k instant capital write off.

    More bail outs? Let them go bust. It isn't like there is the lack of work. There is a housing shortage last time I check.

    • Drakesy on 20/05/2022 - 17:30
      +2

      Yep, tradies aren't accountants.
      Balancing budgets aren't their strong points, a bit like a certain government that likes to prop up their ponzi scheme of a sector.

      • donkeydoc on 22/05/2022 - 18:10

        The best tradies in terms of productivity are problem gamblers

  • djkelly69 on 19/05/2022 - 16:40
    +14

    Anyone else notice ScoMo was at a Metricon development this week when he was spruiking the policy about first home buyers being able to access super to fund their purchase? Talk about a kiss of death.

    This is one of the reasons that it is probably not a good thing to do with your super.

    • Herbse on 20/05/2022 - 20:28
      +5

      This could be the early signs of the bubble bursting

      • Harold Halfprice on 21/05/2022 - 19:01
        +1

        How? Wouldn't it be worse for the market if builders are going bust?

        By "worse" I mean less builders = less supply = increase in prices

      • donkeydoc on 22/05/2022 - 18:14

        I hope so, i do feel for those that just bought a home, but I don't see labor removing negative gearing or addressing capital gains tax on property. Nonetheless the main issue with housing has zero to do with supply and all to do with dodgy demand. If interest rates continue to climb, investors will be hesitant to stay in real estate at which point the bubble will explode!

  • pharkurnell on 19/05/2022 - 16:42
    +2

    There is no way I'd be handing $1.00 to any home company right now…. no matter what.

    The issue is if they dont prop em up, innocent families will lose the lot.

    • [Deactivated] on 19/05/2022 - 21:23
      +12

      even if they do prop them up, i suspect those families will still lose the lot while the executives and high ups at metricon get nice big bonuses. that seems to be the way it always goes.

      • rektrading on 20/05/2022 - 08:00
        +3

        Losing 💵 is part of investing.

        Don't want to lose 💵? Don't invest in Metricon.

        • Drakesy on 20/05/2022 - 17:32
          +1

          *Don't want to lose? If you have enough sway *cough from the eastern suburbs of Sydney Just cry to your local member/best mate from the private high school you both went to and they'll cushion the blow out of the taxpayer wallet because they'd hate to have their constituents become poor.

          • rektrading on 20/05/2022 - 17:35

            @Drakesy: Of course.

            It's always good to have a bag of chits.

  • rektrading on 19/05/2022 - 16:42
    +8

    The GFC and Evergrande were meant to happen as lessons on leverage.

    Australia should let the chips fall where they may as another lesson on leverage.

    • Brodo Faggins on 19/05/2022 - 17:25
      +9

      People can't seem to connect the dots…
      Or they say "past is the past" and nothing more.
      At this rate, AU will be the 1st domino to trigger another global crash.
      Get prepared.
      Hope y'all are not leverage to the eyeballs with $millions in debt teehee

      • Drakesy on 20/05/2022 - 17:39
        +4

        Yep, wouldn't want to be holding $1 million in debt right now.

        "But the RBA promised they wouldn't raise interest rates"
        "But property only ever goes up"
        "I didn't overspend, if i didn't buy then i might not of been able to break into the property market!"
        "The RBA won't be allowed to increase rates because too many people will default so i'm fine"

        Little do people know that 60% of property investors lose money.

        • MinifiguresAU on 20/05/2022 - 19:19

          60%? Care to share your source or proof? Unless you mean 60% are negatively geared?

          • Drakesy on 20/05/2022 - 19:32
            +1

            @MinifiguresAU: It's a pretty well known stat
            Here

            Just goes to show how much propaganda is out there when more than 50% of investors are losing money

            • MinifiguresAU on 20/05/2022 - 20:06

              @Drakesy: So an article based on figures that are 8 years old and effectively referring to negative gearing?

              • Drakesy on 20/05/2022 - 21:46

                @MinifiguresAU: 2021 better?

                • Jackson on 20/05/2022 - 23:40
                  +1

                  @Drakesy: I had a look, but that doesn't really account for capital gains from what I saw. Its just saying that most investors are negative geared. If they sold up they would likely be making a packet

  • CyberMurning on 19/05/2022 - 16:44
    +1

    i thought building houses and sell them is the (quick) key to be a billionaire ?

    • gromit on 20/05/2022 - 19:51

      It was/is. However in rapid inflation of costs preselling builds at fixed prices when you have not prepurchased the materials is a quick road to bankruptcy.

      • Canberralad92 on 21/05/2022 - 07:48

        Yep. Heard some bad stories in Canberra of people being sold apartments at lower build cost that are later defaulted and the buyer is stuck in a rising market.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 19/05/2022 - 16:45
    +8

    Let them go bust. You want capitalism, you must also deal with capitalism.

    • sjj89 on 19/05/2022 - 18:46
      +23

      It’s capitalism for the masses, and corporate socialism for the big boys

  • morse on 19/05/2022 - 16:45

    I'm not sure that it's confirmed that they are going bust yet - but if it is, I reckon there should be some sort of compensation investors. I don't think this should go directly go to Metricon. I think if Metricon goes bust they should just go bust and if creditors suffer financial hardship, perhaps some sort of scheme where they can try and recoup at least some of their investment in a timely manner. The only reason I think this is that we're talking about housing and peoples life investments. In the future, there needs to be some sort of guarantee that these development companies are financially viable and secure with a reasonable buffer before they take people's money.

    • iDroid on 23/05/2022 - 11:06
      +1

      Compensate investors?

      Naa, that's the whole point of investing - you get a reward for taking a risk.

      Removing the risk element makes no sense.

      • morse on 23/05/2022 - 13:19

        Sorry when I said investors I mean home buyers. Which in a way are investors but not necessarily. I just think it’s unfair that people are told to save to buy a home so they can have housing only to lose their deposit.

  • Cho0028 on 19/05/2022 - 16:52
    +8

    People should take what the media writes with a grain of salt regarding Metricon.

    For example, the quote by the salesperson regarding commission owed is a little deceptive from the way it's written. Sales people receive commission, usually in 2 different parts, to account for where the contract is at (usually a part of commission is paid at contract signing to commit to build and the difference at a latter stage).

    Also note that Metricon are the largest home builder, if they're going insolvent, it doesn't make sense that companies like Simmonds Homes (who have seen their stock price tank on the ASX since launch) aren't near it given they sell much fewer homes and have slimmer profit margins.

    Not to say there isn't potential insolvency risk there but a lot of this is being blown up because the media is focusing on building companies going insolvent and Metricon's CEO died this week, making it an easy target.

    • pharkurnell on 19/05/2022 - 16:53
      +1

      …because the media is focusing on building companies going insolvent

      probably with good reason with whats happened in last 6 odd months.

      • Cho0028 on 19/05/2022 - 16:57
        +2

        Definitely. A lot of dodgy stuff goes on in the building industry so it wouldn't be surprising. The owner's of the residential building companies all know each other and some of them are close friends.

        Also profit margins are already small in selling homes but everyone thinks that the overall build is where most of the profit is which is incorrect. In residential, the inclusions (e.g. upgraded stove, door handles etc.) are where most of the profit is made and it's why builders like Metricon spruik their studios and revamp them constantly.

    • Korban Dallas on 20/05/2022 - 19:59

      Made a huge loss last quarter and only made about $700 per house the one before 🤣

  • tsunamisurfer on 19/05/2022 - 16:52
    +31

    Let nature take its course.

    Privatise the profits, privatise the losses.

  • peppet on 19/05/2022 - 16:58
    +1

    How does a customer get their money back or house finished in a situation like this? Sounds like a nightmare, my house just got finished and I couldn't imagine the stress of wondering what'll happen and also the money lost to rent etc. if it takes years to solve.

    • AustriaBargain on 19/05/2022 - 17:05
      +4

      Make a claim against the liquidators or whatever. Get get pennies on the dollar.

    • MessyG on 20/05/2022 - 21:40

      I would strongly suggest reading about the recession of the late 80s at this point…

  • dogboy on 19/05/2022 - 17:00
    +3

    How about the bloated fatcats that sit on the boards of these companies and turn up to 4 meetings a year for $300k+ salaries have some damn accountability and bail them out.

  • iNeed2Pee on 19/05/2022 - 17:11
    +2

    They came out today and said they are not going bust….?

    • websterp on 19/05/2022 - 17:37
      +8

      That is what they all say not to create panic and also to buy time to move "assets" around so the owners never loose. You'd only know once they quietly appoint administrators. Till then deny, deny, deny!

      • CalmLemons on 20/05/2022 - 19:30

        It doesn't work like that. To deny you are involvent whilst you are is a crime, no director or corporate would do that.

        They are most likely meeting with the government to tell them to give more money for any low margin government jobs or to get them to stick it to the suppliers or to allow the international workers back in so the trades don't charge as much

    • AustriaBargain on 20/05/2022 - 00:22
      +2

      If you owned Metricon you would say the exact same thing.

    • Whomastadon on 20/05/2022 - 18:56
      +1

      They also implored their sales staff to secure as many deposits as possible.

      Nothing suss.

      • Cho0028 on 23/05/2022 - 09:27

        Sales staff are instructed to do this on a good day or a bad day.

        It only looks sus now because of the rumours.

  • Drakesy on 19/05/2022 - 17:23
    +18

    I didn't and still don't agree with government bailing out businesses,
    It sends the message to the market that when you're too big to fail, and you fail, you have a safety net.

    A bit like Qantas crying poor after completing a huge round of share buybacks. Then getting their own special version of Jobkeeper that continued even when every other business had lost it, all while their share price went gangbusters when you could no longer lose as the government was basically giving it free labour.

    Evergrande is another example where they got too big for their boots and went crying poor to the chinese government who are now in a precarious position allowing a $1 trillion default and potentially collapsing the building industry or bail it out and tell the market 'don't worry we won't let you fail"

    • ATangk on 20/05/2022 - 15:28
      +3

      If government bails out big business, they should be taking a part of the business as shareholders instead.

  • websterp on 19/05/2022 - 17:25
    +7

    Before asking for a Government bailout using public money I'd like to know how many more millions they received as Job keeper not so long ago all while residential building industry was booming - I read somewhere Metricon themselves were building 2000+ more houses than the previous year (6000 odd vs 4000) .

  • PissLUR on 19/05/2022 - 17:27
    +2

    isn't Metricon one of the biggest volume builder in VIC?

    • Jimothy Wongingtons on 19/05/2022 - 17:28

      Yes

      • PissLUR on 19/05/2022 - 17:28

        wow how does this happen? i would have thought the big guys are fine.

        • AustriaBargain on 19/05/2022 - 17:34
          +7

          Get big by relying on growth and when that growth doesn't all materialise because of covid and global supply chain disruptions suddenly you don't have all the growth you counted on but you are still left holding the bill for it.

        • Jimothy Wongingtons on 19/05/2022 - 17:45
          +5
          • thin margins
          • skilled labour shortage
          • raise in prices and materials in general
            -COVID absence and restrictions
            -amber taking a dump on Johnny bed
          • scomo pooing himself

          Take your pick

        • MrFrugalSpend on 22/05/2022 - 15:11
          +4

          Not at all - big guys can be most at risk.

          It's simple - they sign up to heaps of fixed price contracts a long way in front of when they actually are going to deliver and pay for things… then the cost of those things goes way up due to supply and demand factors…but their contract commitments and revenue doesn't change - so then they can't deliver on their contract commitments.

          Real inflation in building sector is WAY higher than reported (try 40%+ on things like steel), shortages of all sorts of things due to supply chain impacts from COVID (they maybe used to be able to go pickup the lights off a shelf in a warehouse, now they are 6 months+ with extra shipping costs, people fighting over them and paying more to get them), and shortage of subcontractors who aren't yet contracted to can raise their prices to work for the highest bidder and still get work.

          Builders had got used to low inflation, easy work, and forgotten the risks.

          I know one builder well who is having healthy profit margins and more than adequate workload.
          The Director is in his mid-late 60s, smart, and seen it all - he knew this would happen and said "more builders go broke in busy times than quiet times" back over 18 months ago.
          Very few other builders are in this good situation because of they took on too much work with poor foresight / planning of the risks.
          This builder deliberately didn't grow, only took on work when resources were available to build it immediately, put 'rise and fall' clauses in anything that required a long-lead time, clauses that allowed extensions of time due to supply chain risk, then ordered everything asap at the start of the jobs and when the price was still known where possible.
          They still got plenty of work despite letting go the low profit margin work or where people didn't agree to the conditions detailing shared risks.

          Only a few builders didn't take on heaps of work that was tempted on offer, signing people up 1 year+ in advance on fixed prices to greedily overfill the books. When there is so much work it is hard to resist growing, but this easily becomes beyond their means to resource them without securing materials and contractors early.

          There are still manageable challenges of course - Supply chain delays despite being ordered, some employees left to take offers of more $s from others in desperate need to finish contracts, however some of them are already trying to come back after their new employer folded!

          Private companies shouldn't be bailed out for their poor planning and mitigation of their risk in contract terms.
          Where would be the incentive for some to not be greedy next time if there was always a taxpayer funded safety net?

    • websterp on 19/05/2022 - 17:54
      +1

      Apparently the biggest in Australia

    • SF3 on 19/05/2022 - 20:43

      Metricon holds $195m worth of contracts with the state government, including a five-year deal to build and maintain public housing as part of Victoria’s ambitious “big build” infrastructure program.

      knee deep.

      • netjock on 20/05/2022 - 19:10
        +1

        Hope the gov smart enough not to put down a big deposit.

  • brendanm on 19/05/2022 - 17:48
    +8

    No, and neither should the people who chose to build in this environment. I could have been building a house right now, however chose not to, due to the silly timeframes, and risk of this happening. Not sure why I should pay for others decisions to risk it.

    • Drakesy on 19/05/2022 - 17:52
      +13

      Don't worry the victims will come forward with their excuses.
      "But the government subsidy paid for 15% of my house and so was a bargain."
      "But i'd been saving up all this time and decided to spend my holiday money on my forever home"
      "Building was going up too much so i overspent and am now left holding a mortgage that i can't afford, let alone think of having a family."

      "THE RBA SAID RATES WEREN'T GOING TO INCREASE UNTIL 2024!"

      • brendanm on 19/05/2022 - 17:53
        +7

        No doubt, it's always someone else's fault.

        • Drakesy on 19/05/2022 - 17:54
          +11

          "HOW COULD DAN ANDREWS DO SUCH A THING!"

    • 91rs on 20/05/2022 - 16:50
      +1

      "No, and neither should the people who chose to build in this environment."

      What environment? The same environment that's been pushing up the prices of housing in Australia for decades? When is the right time people should have had all their money ready and decided to build according to you? Most do it when they can afford it, why wait when it will just cost you more in the future?

      There is always a risk of "this" happening as you put it, it's only now more apparent due to rumours that its in peoples faces.
      All of the HIA building contracts with any builder are all in favour of the builder and never the people who will own the property, the timeframes stated in contracts are not really silly either, most allowing almost a year for the full construction of the dwelling, if not longer on bigger multi-storey builds.

      That said all new house builds have insurance against this happening, the banks won't settle & let the first drawdown happen until they've seen insurance certificates.
      The problem for metricon and other builders with fixed contracts to build would be the ever increasing cost of materials along with availability to then complete those jobs unless metricon have ordered and paid or secured a fixed price on materials in advance.

      The bigger problem even if metricon went under would be finding any builders or tradies that would complete the house (and someone to project manage the remainder of construction) with the amount of insurance that has been taken out against the build, this amount is often set by the builder but the banks also require a minimum amount.
      And if you could even find anyone to finish the build its very likely that there would be a significant gap between the cost of finishing Vs the insurance payout.

      If there were to be bailouts, i'd rather see the bailout go to those gaps for people who were going to use the property as their home to live in, seems people only every think people are buying or building a house as investment, not somewhere people live with their families.

      • brendanm on 20/05/2022 - 17:03
        +1

        What environment? The same environment that's been pushing up the prices of housing in Australia for decades?

        Nope, the one created by the money printing and material/worker shortages during covid. It's not to do with the pricing, though I'm sure there are also a tonne of people who haven't considered at all the impact of interest rate rises, it's the fact that lots of places are being built at a loss due to fixed price contracts. What is a building company going to do? Continue to finish contracts, losing money on each one? Or shut up shop, claim bankruptcy, and start up a new one a week later, like they always do.

        If I could figure out that this had a higher chance of happening than usual, I can't see why others wouldn't be able to as well.

  • wannagrababargain on 19/05/2022 - 17:52
    +8

    How good is HomeBuilder.

  • wannagrababargain on 19/05/2022 - 17:53
    +9

    "The tradie led recovery"

    • netjock on 20/05/2022 - 19:11

      That is what company liquidators say

  • holdenmg on 19/05/2022 - 18:47
    +1

    Extra Special Bonus Points to SloMo if he says "Not my job to save Metricon"

    • serpserpserp on 19/05/2022 - 21:53
      +1

      Definitely won't be in two days time.

  • donbot on 19/05/2022 - 19:51
    +5

    Metricon - the master of screwing subbies to rock bottom rates to build their houses. Even Simonds aren't as bad as Metricon.

    Anyone who gets into bed with these rats can't possibly wonder why they end up with fleas.

    Wouldn't put any money over to any builder in advance of something happening, not a chance.

    No builder pays their subbies before their work is done, why is it any different for a client and their builder? Farcical at best.

    • serpserpserp on 19/05/2022 - 21:54

      Wouldn't put any money over to any builder in advance of something happening, not a chance.

      This is how volume builders operate though.

  • AndyC1 on 19/05/2022 - 21:08
    +1

    Scare mongering posts like this do not help.

    • rektrading on 20/05/2022 - 08:03

      Metricon is going to zero unless taxpayers pay.

      People who invested should be 😱, very 🙀.

      • moar bargains on 20/05/2022 - 14:39
        +6

        I 😱, you 🙀, we all 😱 for 🍦

      • nuttapillar on 20/05/2022 - 22:52

        should be scream, very screaming cat?

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