Can Tenant Run eBay Store from Home?

[Deactivated] on 31/05/2022 - 11:00
Last edited 31/05/2022 - 11:30 by 1 other user

I read a landlord insurance policy that says, the policy void if the tenant runs their business from home. A quick google confirms that tenant should ask landlord permissions before running their business from home. This is primarily due to the increased risk to damages to the property from people coming in and out.

However, I wonder, if this includes running an eBay store, which is probably very common.

While I can find articles about this in Google, I cannot find the actual point in the tenancy agreement about running a business.

Another question is, what if landlord do not know that the tenant runs a business from home, and what if it causes a catastrophic accident, would the insurance pays?

Link and here

Home & Garden

Comments

  • rektrading on 31/05/2022 - 11:03

    However, I wonder, if this includes running an eBay store, which is probably very common.

    eBay stores are mostly order and ship.

    The is a minimal collection if any at all.

    • [Deactivated] on 31/05/2022 - 11:09
      -7

      in this article it includes eBay Store: https://propertyonly.com.au/landlord-tips/can-a-tenant-run-a…

      Perhaps the goods increases the risk of theft. Thief and robbers generally damages the property to gain entry.

      Also I guess depends on how they ship. If this is just a casual eBay store, where they post manually one or two parcels a week, that's fine.
      But if they are shipping dozens or hundreds of packages?

      • rektrading on 31/05/2022 - 11:58
        +3

        The article is bull.

    • Jac33au on 01/06/2022 - 09:03
      +3

      My landlord demanded we write a document that says we would liable for any damage. We refused. As long as you have appropriate insurance which is dictated by your local council you can run a home business. We had pickups from customers and couriers but was mostly online ecom.

      It will obviously vary state to state.

      • rektrading on 01/06/2022 - 09:50
        +5

        Landlords nowadays take the word lord too serious.

        • dmbminaret on 01/06/2022 - 21:05

          Property moguls

  • WreckTangle on 31/05/2022 - 11:13
    +22

    This is another example of how there needs to be stronger legislation to prevent landlords & their agents from encroaching on tenants lives.

    • Xistn on 31/05/2022 - 11:25
      +14

      Become a landlord, then you'll understand how frustrating it can be.

      • BewareOfThe Dog on 31/05/2022 - 15:48
        -7

        Which is why I don't want to be one. Tenants expect you to fix everything at the drop of a hat, not realising that you have to have money yourself, to fix their repairs.

        • pegaxs on 31/05/2022 - 16:58
          +12

          And then there's the arsehole landlords who want to charge tenants a $2,500 cleaning fee when they leave because there was a dead insect in the corner of one room and 4 specks of dust on top of a window frame…

          Sometimes I lay in bed at night just crying about how bad landlords have it… Wont someone think of the landlords?

        • ThithLord on 31/05/2022 - 17:20
          +23

          If you don't have the money to maintain the property, don't become a landlord.

        • jetblack on 01/06/2022 - 08:44
          +10

          You say this like it's a bad thing, but that is entirely how the dynamic between tenant and landlord should work.
          If landlord can't afford basic repairs, or the insurance to cover more major issues, they shouldn't be a landlord.

      • WreckTangle on 31/05/2022 - 20:37
        +2

        I am, but i’m a responsible one

      • ColtNoir on 01/06/2022 - 14:33
        +1

        Invest your capital in another area then eg stocks, bonds.
        You chose to invest in property, and such have to deal with everything that goes with it.

    • [Deactivated] on 31/05/2022 - 11:29
      +7

      I disagree.

      Tenant can ask permission for that, fair and square.

      Landlord then can find insurance that covers their ass.

      Tenant may also provide proof that they have business insurance, etc.

      • SlickMick on 01/06/2022 - 09:42
        +3

        Why should landlord take on additional risk and/ or cost?
        I would certainly charge a different rate to a business tenant.

        • rektrading on 01/06/2022 - 10:02

          I WFH using devices.

          What additional risk or cost is the landlord subject to by WFH?

    • MrBear on 01/06/2022 - 11:29
      +1

      Generally the lease covers this, i.e. not operating a business from the premises, so if a tenant agrees to sign the lease, they understand they cannot run a business from the premises. If they don't agree with this, they shouldn't sign the lease and find somewhere else.

      If that lease does not contain this clause, then it should be a discussion between the landlord and the tenant and is up for interpretation and compromise. The lease signed is usually a residential lease, not a commercial lease, so the expectation of running a commercial enterprise from a residence isn't really there.

      It's not encroaching on the tenant's lives, it is part of a contractual obligation. And where do you draw the line between a simple ebay operation running out of the spare room and a some other business running out of that same place?

      They may also be breaking bylaws of the strata if the place is part of one.

  • Hybroid on 31/05/2022 - 11:14
    +3

    There's probably a difference between an individual selling few items on eBay and running a whole registered business.

    Since it's a residential tenancy agreement, I would expect it to exclude any business use and you would absolutely need to notify the landlord under below clause:-

    Special Condition 15 - Change in use or occupation of flat to be notified

    (a) The tenant must notify the landlord if the tenant changes the existing use of the flat.

    (b) Without limiting Special Condition 15(a), the following changes of use must be notified:

    (i) a change that may affect the insurance premiums for the landlord (for example, if the change of use results in a hazardous activity being carried out in the flat, or results in the flat being used for commercial or industrial purposes rather than residential purposes);

    • [Deactivated] on 31/05/2022 - 11:17

      Link please?

      Btw, of course it is about running eBay Store business with ABN and stuff, rather than selling occasional used personal goods.

      • Hybroid on 31/05/2022 - 11:18

        It's in the standard tenancy agreement.

        RESIDENTIAL TENANCIES REGULATION 2010

        • [Deactivated] on 31/05/2022 - 11:19

          I must be blind, but I can't find that in here:
          https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/00…

          • Hybroid on 31/05/2022 - 11:27
            +1

            @[Deactivated]: That seems to be a newer version of the contract I have and doesn't include special conditions. There's probably something in there but ultimately the overarching is it's a residential contract.

            • [Deactivated] on 31/05/2022 - 11:27

              @Hybroid: I think yours is from a strata by laws.

              • Hybroid on 31/05/2022 - 11:29

                @[Deactivated]: Nope, it's a Residential Tenancy Agreement. Speak to your agent/landlord to clarify on this.

        • [Deactivated] on 31/05/2022 - 11:21

          Sorry I can't find in the RESIDENTIAL TENANCIES REGULATION 2010 either.

          Can I have the link where you find this please?

          • Jameslane on 31/05/2022 - 11:51

            @[Deactivated]: Looks like @hybroid comment is a specific clause from a sale contract, not from the act itself.

            https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/zenu/LISTING_IMAGES/…

          • Hybroid on 31/05/2022 - 12:38

            @[Deactivated]: Found it. It's a paid REINSW form which agent seems to use:

            https://www.reinsw.com.au/ItemDetail?iProductCode=FM00401N&C…

            Special Condition 15 is on Page 16 of the example template here: https://www.doylespillane.com.au/_files/residential-tenancy-…

            Gathering from context below, you are the landlord yourself. I suppose you need to check the contract you asked tenants to sign up to. If as you say above, you can't find anything in there, well, then, you didn't say it's not allowed to run a business and they're not in breach of contract.

            • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 31/05/2022 - 13:58

              @Hybroid: eBay store falls well short of a change in use of premises referred to in that template.

              Plus it only applies to "flats".

              Plus "special" conditions are not binding if otherwise by law. You cannot restrict a tenant from earning an income or conducting a home occupation, which likewise a local council is powerless as well.

              And fiiiiinally, that clause says it only must be "notified". Not that it is "excluded" or prohibited. Nor does it say the landlord has any say whatsoever once notified.

              • brad1-8tsi on 01/06/2022 - 18:08

                @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: I'm trying to work out what is so horrific about an ebay store when compared to a tradie with tools and parts or somebody WFH doing lots of zoom or F2F meetings

                In our block we have a couple that run an events company from home and keep keep several 2m cubed transport boxes in their car spot, a dude with a home studio for recording the music and voice-overs for sporting events, a day trader, a business start-up and me with a scrap metal business.

  • tsunamisurfer on 31/05/2022 - 11:14
    +2

    Its a bit rough to void the policy due to the actions of a third party.

    I think the insurance should just pay the landlord and aggressively chase the tenant to recover the expenses.

  • Hardlyworkin on 31/05/2022 - 11:33
    -2

    Is eBay store code for brothel?

    Hardlyworkin on 31/05/2022 - 11:33 (Collapsed - Offtopic. Show)
  • AndyC1 on 31/05/2022 - 11:52

    Ask your REA what should be done about it.

  • JimmyF on 31/05/2022 - 12:08
    +5

    I read a landlord insurance policy that says, the policy void if the tenant runs their business from home

    Well considering a LOT of people are 'working from home' these days, you could say that most tenants are running a form of business from home.

    Anyhow, how do you know they are running a business from home?

    • [Deactivated] on 31/05/2022 - 12:09
      -5

      I googled their name, it has abn. I assumed it is run from my property.

      • JimmyF on 31/05/2022 - 12:10
        +4

        You know what they say about 'assuming'…..

        Just because they have a abn and a ebay store, doesn't mean much. It will most likely be a drop shipping store like everyone else. So nothing at 'home' other than a computer.

        Also that is called stalking.

        • [Deactivated] on 31/05/2022 - 12:11
          -5

          It isn't ebay store though. I use it as title only.

          I call it background checking.

          Regardless, store or hair dress, you saying you don't care?

          • easylife on 31/05/2022 - 12:24
            +4

            @[Deactivated]: Atleast they are paying their rent on time? Move on with your life

          • ausdday on 31/05/2022 - 12:39
            +1

            @[Deactivated]: I guess you are the landlord, no?

            If you don't feel comfortable, kick them out. Otherwise, move on.

          • Domingo on 31/05/2022 - 12:42
            +2

            @[Deactivated]: Online drop shipper that works exclusively on their computer is essentially the same as an office worker who works from home.

            If something was actually being produced, manufactured or collected from the premises then there may be some kind of issue, and this would typically be identifiable through routine inspections.

            I'm sure my landlord has no issue with me having a computer desk in my house that I sit/stand at for 8+ hours every day - no different to me playing computer games, except I earn an income that I then provide to them as consideration for them letting me live in their property, as outlined in the lease we both signed.

            • rektrading on 31/05/2022 - 12:51
              +1

              @Domingo:

              this would typically be identifiable through routine inspections.

              How routine are routine inspections?

              Isn't there a law against landlords dropping by unannounced?

            • [Deactivated] on 31/05/2022 - 13:02
              -4

              @Domingo: Very different to WFH or playing computer games.

              WFH does not have regular drop/ships. Does not store brand new goods in the property. Goods that may attract thefts or fire.

              Seriously, I think WFH/playing computer games is not a business, very very serious.

              • Domingo on 31/05/2022 - 13:20

                @[Deactivated]: Drop shipping is where I sell you something that I don't have in stock. I order it from a 3rd party who delivers it directly to you. The items do not come into my possession.

                There is no reason to store stock unless you are buying in bulk to get better wholesale rates, or to have faster delivery times. If that was the case you aren't a drop shipper, you'd be holding a fair bit of stock and likely be unable to hide all evidence of it from a routine inspection.

                • BewareOfThe Dog on 31/05/2022 - 15:45

                  @Domingo: And if they do start to obtain heaps of stock and have it shipping to and from the premises, suggest they operate out of a Storage Shed. A 3m x 8m costs us @ 170 per month

          • rektrading on 31/05/2022 - 12:48

            @[Deactivated]: eBay stores aren't hairdressers.

            • [Deactivated] on 31/05/2022 - 13:02
              -2

              @rektrading: Is it? tell me more.

              • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 31/05/2022 - 14:02
                +4

                @[Deactivated]: Are you sure being a landlord is the right investment choice for you?

                You seem to want to unfairly restrict any occupant, and go to great lengths to snoop around prospective occupants.

                Maybe buy shares or gold.

                • [Deactivated] on 31/05/2022 - 14:19

                  @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: This is all about the insurance policy my friend.

                  Are you sure you understand?

                  Maybe play sudoku instead.

                  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 31/05/2022 - 14:43
                    +4

                    @[Deactivated]: I'd suggest sudoku to you. You're the one conducting ABN searches of tenants.

                    Be thankful they're operating a legal business. You'd be none the wiser otherwise.

              • rektrading on 31/05/2022 - 15:32

                @[Deactivated]: No walk-in business.

                • BewareOfThe Dog on 31/05/2022 - 15:39

                  @rektrading: I guess that's the end of Amway then.

                  • rektrading on 31/05/2022 - 15:41

                    @BewareOfThe Dog: What's Amway?

                    It sounds like a scam.

                    • BewareOfThe Dog on 31/05/2022 - 15:46
                      +1

                      @rektrading: Legit Business.

                      Do you want me to show you the plan over a cup of coffee? It will take no longer than 1/2 an hour. After 2 hours you will be mesmerised and signing all your friends and relatives up, who will do all the work, whilst you are on the beach at Noosa. ;)

  • ihbh on 31/05/2022 - 12:54

    Depends on business. Dropship okay, selling dynamite not, especially if they use property as a warehouse.

  • apple2016 on 31/05/2022 - 13:47

    the policy void if the tenant runs their business from home.

    this could be due to OHS issues in work place if the tenant sets up a business. If the primary purpose is still residential, you should be fine.

  • Darayus on 01/06/2022 - 10:43

    it depends what do you mean business, so don't worry.

  • ColtNoir on 01/06/2022 - 15:47
    +1

    Looking at Aami’s home and contents insurance, it gives some context where you’d need help

    Tax consultant - likely have home visitors(not always)
    Food service - excessive cooking by residential standards, higher risk of fire etc
    Printing business eg t-shirts - machinery and liability.

    These are just examples but most of it is around liability and increased risk eg large amounts of cash at home.

    I doubt an eBay business would be an issue, only for the tenant's contents insurance, as they'd need to get higher cover.

    Also, doing a search for an ABN is useless. The libs and fairwork have destroyed employment, so much so that often to get work as a personal trainer, truck driver etc you need to have an ABN so they can pay you below minimum wage.

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join