Stupidity of New Ute's Technology

jizmo on 01/06/2022 - 16:36
Last edited 01/06/2022 - 16:46

Ok ready to order a new ute. Told the sales guy I need the tray with vertical upright instead of the factory ones that follow the angle of the body.. I'll be carrying long lengths too so I'll need a front ladder rack
He's gone yeah right you'll need to get aftermarket we or you can organize that. He was pretty good about it.

Rang this aftermarket place and they're saying you can't put a bull/nudge bar on a new ute because of this assist braking.
You could be doing 100K/Hr and all of a sudden the brake assist thinks the front ladder rack is a car ahead and slams on the brakes.
Or the car drives with the brakes on all the time because it thinks you're tail gating
Utes are made to carry stuff whoever thought this was a good idea was a BMW (bloody mindless wan%^)

Anyway is there anyway out of this. Like ripping it out
EDIT I think he meant the ladder rack set off the braking

Automotive

Comments

  • holoz0r on 01/06/2022 - 16:40
    +3

    Get a van?

  • Brian McGee on 01/06/2022 - 16:42

    Buy a truck like a hino or Fuso?

    • jizmo on 01/06/2022 - 16:46

      was hoping to get it in the garage plus the extra height is a pain

      • iDroid on 01/06/2022 - 23:54
        -2

        Bigger garage?

  • SBOB on 01/06/2022 - 16:49
    +16

    Rang this aftermarket place and they're saying you can't put a bull/nudge bar on a new ute because of this assist braking.

    sounds more like an issue with the quality of the aftermarket place you went to

    You could be doing 100K/Hr and all of a sudden the brake assist thinks the front ladder rack is a car ahead and slams on the brakes.

    not how it works. You're ladder rack didnt jump out in front of the car

    Utes are made to carry stuff whoever thought this was a good idea was a BMW (bloody mindless wan%^)

    considering the quality of some tradies I see driving rangers, d-max, hilux etc these days… additional safety features are a 100% welcome addition to the vehicle fleet

    • Brian McGee on 01/06/2022 - 16:57
      +5

      additional safety features are a 100% welcome

      I think you forgot a zero, 1000% welcome (at a bare minimum).

    • Caped Baldy on 01/06/2022 - 17:40
      +2

      I've seen heaps of Rangers lately. Never seen them loaded except for jet skis.

      • Domicron on 01/06/2022 - 19:23

        Well, you forgot about the dinghy.

  • GG57 on 01/06/2022 - 16:50

    That ute is not fit for your intended purpose.

  • Euphemistic on 01/06/2022 - 17:00

    Many sensor systems self calibrate when they get activated. So it should register there’s something permanently in front of it.

    However, saying that, you need to contact some other suppliers and perhaps the manufacturer again to see what they can do.

  • El cheepo on 01/06/2022 - 17:07
    +1

    Most of those features can be disabled or possibly the sensors realigned.

    In any case, no it won’t suddenly slam the brakes on at 100kmph or drive with the brakes on.
    It only brakes when sudden slow downs are detected and by pressing the accelerator it disables the braking features in most vehicles.
    Worst case scenario is you wouldn’t be able to use cruise control if you were constantly overriding the brake feature.
    But, it would be easier just to disconnect the sensors and avoid it all together if thats the ute and features combo you want.

  • CalmLemons on 01/06/2022 - 17:21
    +2

    Proper aftermarket places will move the sensors for you and calibrate, like ARB does with the new ford ranger or consults with the engineering team of the manufacturer.

    I don't think some manufacturers like bull/nudge bars as it just goes into the too hard basket especially with all the new fancy radar stuff, plus I'm assuming it will decrease any rating for damage to pedestrians if you hit them.

    From the sounds of it you may need to see a more qualified aftermarket place / or the idiot you talked to at the place.

    • spackbace on 01/06/2022 - 21:29
      +1

      Proper aftermarket places will move the sensors for you and calibrate

      No they won't, not those sensors. The sensors that OP is referring to, in a Hilux at least, are on the windscreen behind the rear-view mirror, and behind the Toyota badge on the front.

      OP wants to attach a 'H' frame to a bull-bar, which has the potential to thrown off those sensors as it'll always see 2 permanent vertical lines in it's view, which they aren't designed to look for.

      ARB etc etc can't and won't relocate those sensors. They aren't just simply parking sensors, they're built-in sensors to how the vehicle operates and how it's been ADR'd.

      • Euphemistic on 02/06/2022 - 07:41
        +1

        In that case, as a Toyota salesperson, is it possible to fit such a rack to any Toyota ute?

        Will the system ‘calibrate’ them out? Will it work with a bullbar, spotlights and a massive 2 way aerial for example? Or a bush driver going to have to choose something different as well?

        I’m interested to know, not wanting to ‘catch you out’ with a trick question.

        • spackbace on 02/06/2022 - 13:00
          +1

          Officially, Toyota suggest to avoid it.

          Have seen a Fleet sold vehicle with one on. The salesperson took it round the block etc to test it and reportedly it was ok

          Would I trust it though? Nope

          • jizmo on 02/06/2022 - 19:20
            +1

            @spackbace: In the event of an accident Wouldn't like my chances of an insurance payout.and for those saying rip it out. If it was found modified… Again look at the insurance aspect. Are you prepared to lose 40K++ be liable for 3rd party damage

            Just a pity Ute manufactures couldn't come up with a work around for this

            • Euphemistic on 02/06/2022 - 20:22
              +1

              @jizmo: So far I haven’t heard any definitive evidence that it is a no-go. The aftermarket supplier has told you ‘no bull bar’ which isn’t true, most have a factory option available. The sales guy said they could organise one. Toyota ‘suggest to avoid it’. None of which is definitive either way.

              It’s a new technology. Aftermarket haven’t worked around it - yet. Manufacturers might not have either because while not uncommon it’s not exactly common either.

  • freefall101 on 01/06/2022 - 17:31
    +1

    Get the dealer to find an aftermarket place by the sounds of it, they'll likely find one who knows what they're doing with the sensors.

  • AndyC1 on 01/06/2022 - 17:56

    Ring up the Ute's manufacturer support line in OZ and ask them about the issues you face and if you can get someone in the company to call you back within 2 working days to discuss it if they cannot put you onto someone who can help you straight away.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 01/06/2022 - 18:14
    +1

    Buy an old ute with old technology. Simples.

    • tonyjzx on 01/06/2022 - 19:49
      +3

      probably better to buy a new ute unless you think a 10 yr old Jap ute w/ 250,000km is worth $40k…

  • nubzy on 01/06/2022 - 20:33
    +1

    Why not get a van then. Most tradies would probably be better off with a van to be honest for the security, much better to drive too.

    • Euphemistic on 02/06/2022 - 07:43

      Sometimes the van won’t be long enough either.

    • GG57 on 02/06/2022 - 09:04

      I agree. A much better for-purpose solution.

  • Hackney on 02/06/2022 - 06:15

    OP needs a Corolla!Wind the windows down, that will fix his issue!

  • Venustrap87 on 02/06/2022 - 08:47

    Just cut the wire easy fix

  • redvaldez on 02/06/2022 - 10:51

    Rang this aftermarket place and they're saying you can't put a bull/nudge bar on a new ute because of this assist braking.

    I had a late model 4WD (Pajero Sport) with a grille-mounted radar sensor, and had no issues whatsoever with an aftermarket bullbar and driving lights (obviously the sensor was not directly blocked). I also understand that in the current model Triton, the AEB sensors are windscreen mounted, but a bullbar and/or bullbar-mounted UHF won't cause an issue.

    I can't speak for a full-length tradie's rack but I would be at least a little cautious of the bloke you spoke to. My experience with the technology was that it was very well calibrated.

  • CalmLemons on 02/06/2022 - 19:18
    +1

    Guess we're just going to wait and see OP on dashcamownersaustralia

  • KMeister on 02/06/2022 - 19:35
    +1

    If it is a Toyota, you can turn-off the Pre-Collision System (PCS) temporarily, until you turn off and turn on the vehicle again, in which case will turn on PCS again. Toyota dealers cannot permanently disable PCS.

    Neither Toyota Australia nor Toyota Dealers recommend aftermarket accessories to be fitted to Toyota vehicles.

    • Euphemistic on 02/06/2022 - 20:23

      Neither Toyota Australia nor Toyota Dealers recommend aftermarket accessories to be fitted to Toyota vehicles.

      They’ve always said you should not get aftermarket stuff, dents their factory sales yet there’s a massive market in aftermarket that has been going strong for decades. They learned to deal with reverse sensors. They’ll get a handle on these systems too.

      • KMeister on 02/06/2022 - 20:28
        +1

        and?

        • Euphemistic on 02/06/2022 - 20:31

          Just because Toyota says you should only fit a genuine towbar and bullbar doesn’t make it any less safe to get them fitted by ARB.

          • KMeister on 02/06/2022 - 21:16
            +2

            @Euphemistic:

            Just because Toyota says you should only fit a genuine towbar doesn’t make it any less safe to fit a Hayman Reece.

            That's a very simplistic deduction and it is a given.

            Aftermarket does not necessarily mean it's unsafe, it just means Toyota never tested them and Toyota cannot guarantee their compatibility with Toyota products, therefore fitting such parts and/or accessories to a Toyota vehicle is considered a modification (hence not recommended), which takes your Toyota vehicle out of manufacturer specifications. In an event of of a failure or a malfunction due to or caused by a modification, any liabilities including warranty may not be covered by Toyota.

            When Toyota Genuine parts/accessories are fitted to a compatible Toyota vehicle as per the Accessory Fitting Instructions or as per Repair Manual by a Toyota dealer/trade qualified person (workmanship liability is absorbed by Toyota Australia when fitted by a Toyota Dealer), and the failure is identified due to a Toyota product(manufacturing defect) , within ACL limitations, Toyota will provide warranty assistance.

            If/when your Hayman Reece fails or cause another Toyota component to fail or malfunction, Toyota will not cover any damages.
            Safety/compatibility issues caused by aftermarket components needs to be addressed by the respective manufacturer/seller, not by Toyota.

            • Euphemistic on 02/06/2022 - 21:33
              -2

              @KMeister: Your reply is also somewhat simplistic. Just because the manufacturers won’t back aftermarket accessories doesn’t mean your vehicle warranty is void. And yes, reputable aftermarket manufacturers support their stuff.

      • spackbace on 03/06/2022 - 11:04

        They learned to deal with reverse sensors. They’ll get a handle on these systems too.

        Huge difference between something that goes beep and safety sensors

        • Euphemistic on 03/06/2022 - 12:12

          In theory, but it’s just another engineering problem to solve.

          I wonder how it copes with a bug on the windscreen for example?

          The system (camera, radar?) is probably looking for stud that changes within a certain set of parameters. Sticking a solid vertical bar on the front shouldn’t meet those criteria.

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