Are Nurses 'really' Underpaid

Trying2SaveABuck on 01/06/2022 - 21:45
Last edited 04/06/2022 - 21:50 by 1 other user

So bit of a follow on, from the theme of traditionally advertised as under-paid jobs - i got some interesting discussion from the teachers thread so i thought i'd look into Nurses.

https://www.health.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/44…

there pay 'structure' is a fair bit more complex due to the large Varity of different nursing jobs but i looks like a Grade 2 Registered Nurse with 10 years experience would be sitting on about 95k a year with the new graduates starting on around 65k - this pay scale is from 1/12/21 so a bit more up to date then the teachers one https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/703672

Some of the more 'senior' positions hit the low 100k to 130k region however i think these rolls would require an addition masters to a regular nursing degree however the options are there to make the step.

this also doesn't take into account any overtime a salary of 95k put you in around the 77percentile of earners in Australia.

ill say the salary structure certainly is 'worse' then teachers esp when you consider it to be more upto date note this is for Queensland nurses but it seems pretty similar across the states.

There is a bit of 'extra' renumeration for rural setting work.

i'd probably say Nurses have a bit of a 'fair point' they might be a touch under paid for non specialist nurses as 10 years experince has them under 100k a year esp considering they essentially had the worst of the recent covid crisis but once again ill throw it to the 'polls' and see what OZ-bargin thinks im not a Nurse or a Teacher so it is interesting to read what people think.

however the options to grow ones career that pays well into the 90th percentile is available so vote and comment away

Poll Options

  • 33
    Nurses are over paid
  • 110
    Nurses are paid fairly
  • 514
    Nurses are under paid
Education & Work

Comments

  • grog on 01/06/2022 - 21:47
    +34

    Worth every cent if you are crook and need them

    • Dreamcast on 03/06/2022 - 14:05

      Indeed. Well said!

  • sjj89 on 01/06/2022 - 21:54
    -7

    Nurses perform more work than doctors, but the primary argument for doctors being paid more is that they are the liable party, not the nurses.
    But nurses should be paid much more, they provide a wildly necessary service, and the pay rate is so low currently that people see it as a fallback career

      • sjj89 on 01/06/2022 - 22:13
        +15

        “Probably”
        No, they don’t

      • morse on 02/06/2022 - 00:46
        +1

        Yeah nah…. It does happen but it’s not super common. There is an element of some nurses moving away from the frontline ie into hospital management, but equally there are CNC and nurse practitioner roles that attract nurses with good skills and qualifications. There are also some amazing ENs and RNs who stay at that level because that’s what they love.

    • pandaoncoffee on 01/06/2022 - 22:28
      +18

      I don't think it's necessarily true that they do more work than doctors. The work is certainly different.

      When I was a medical intern, I easily hit 70-80 hrs per week and most of my overtime was not paid. Even when I climbed up the ranks and specialised, there was a point where I could quite easily be on call 24hrs a day for 7-20 days in a row. I'd be expected to oversee emergencies throughout the night, provide clinical support, but then be expected to be at work at 8am the next day. There was quite literally no one else that could fill my spot, so I really had no choice!

    • anonymous01 on 02/06/2022 - 21:52
      +4

      I believe everyone is underpaid, except for the CEO's and Executives and CEO's ass kissers.

      • Pricebeat on 04/06/2022 - 11:00

        relatively simple work

        Do try it sometime, see if you have the same tone afterwards.

        But looking at your comments, you seem like the person a nurse should avoid giving bed pan on time

        • SlavOz on 04/06/2022 - 11:16
          -5

          You wouldn't last a day on some of the job sites I used to work at mate. Try carrying bags of cement all day, mixing concrete at 10 storeys high, and installing insulation on office buildings.

          That's hard work. In fact, most government bodies agree with me since there are constantly new regulations coming out around health and safety on construction sites. The rules are far more strict than most industries.

          Where's my pay increase? Oh that's right, we're not on TV and the media has no idea where their fancy offices come from, so no go :(

          Stop with this "my job is harder than yours" crap already. Nurses have exhausted it to the very end and its getting tiresome. If they don't want to do the job, there are plenty of others who are able and willing. They're disposable.

          • Pricebeat on 04/06/2022 - 11:26
            +1

            @SlavOz:

            Try carrying bags of cement all day, mixing concrete at 10 storeys high, and installing insulation on office buildings.

            How do you assume I wouldn’t last at that? Only thing I won’t last at and let anyone last at is putting other people’s jobs down.

            Like I said above

            You seem like the person a nurse should avoid giving bed pan on time. Tin hatters like you are leaches to our society. Burden on our health system and a liability to tax payer such as me and the nurses working hard.

            • SlavOz on 04/06/2022 - 12:03
              -3

              @Pricebeat:

              How do you assume I wouldn’t last at that?

              Because most people don't. These jobs have very high pay rates and there are always vacancies. Few people want to do them. The avaliable pool of applicants is already 50% lower than most jobs before its even posted given that women overwhelmingly refuse to take part in it.

              I don't know your gender, but based on probability alone there's a 1/2 in chance that you couldn't handle it.

              Burden on our health system

              Real world data is a lot more useful than make-believe fantasies. How am I a burden on the healthcare system? I'm 31 years old, and aside from a few genetic health issues I take extremely good care of my body.

              Overweight or obese people are by far the biggest hog of medical resources, even when you break it down to COVID alone. You'd much rather be unvaccinated and skinny than fully vaccinated and obese. Here's some data that might help:

              https://www.obesityevidencehub.org.au/collections/impacts/im…

              Now consider that over 65% of Australians are overweight or obese. That's around 1 in 3 people.

              But sure, the young skinny guy who's had COVID twice and miraculously survived without medical care is a leach on our healthcare system. If only he was just fat like everyone else, he would be so much healthier 🤣🤣🤣

          • 01001101 01000010 on 04/06/2022 - 11:32
            +2

            @SlavOz: Haha, of course you did champ. A concreting super marketer, but wait I do it 10 stories in the air.

            You want to stop the my job is harder than yours, while at the same time doing the my job is harder than yours. Typical.

          • redfox1200 on 05/06/2022 - 06:36
            +2

            @SlavOz: Oooga booga me carry heavy thing

    • ozisaver on 03/06/2022 - 11:52
      +1

      Nurses aren’t liable

      Seriously?

    • juki on 03/06/2022 - 18:43
      +2

      Its team work, yeah doctors dont literally deal with poop, but it doesnt mean they sit behind a desk waiting for our calls.
      in eight years of nursing, i have rarely been paid overtime (in general an hour a day), for not getting breaks (at all) - the responsibilities are crazy if you pride yourself on doing a good job thoroughly, in addition to this patients you know well and their families dying and all that emotional stress - but that may be my specific field. Lets not forget the abuse, its not just in ED, its anywhere and fairly frequent. They may have posters saying its not tolerated but if you're the nurse you are sure to face it at some point.
      I instantly mistrust nurses that do the whole nurse vs hmo thing, as getting a good partnership going makes life easier for everyone (HMOs might be new to the speciality or freaked out / learning too having a bunch of people nag them makes life easier, and then communication in return helps us get stuff done)
      Depending where, nursing is pretty physical, even in not so demanding areas, Australians are pretty fat and heavy, plus all the squatting and stretching. weirdly pay seems opposite to the effort and knowledge required as its decided by some old guy in an office watching a carry on movie.

      Overseas i was a teacher, i would be bored if i went back to that job now, depending on the school and how involved the teacher wanted to be it is more or less stressful. My guess with the pandemic, is there is a lot of adjusting to do for everyone and its likely chaotic. In comparison the countries i taught in were likely calmer than Oz, with kids having less freedom and a culture with more tradition. (the school hours were 08-2030 too).

      IMO most jobs based on something other than cash return are underpaid, there are lazy people in any job too (my new role is paid more, less stressful, yet people are obsessed with their breaks).

      and please, dont abuse your nurses (or doctors), its likely not their fault

    • lilyesp on 04/06/2022 - 07:25

      Bit like saying CEOs should be paid less than management positions because CEOs work less. Yet they are ultimately reponsible…ok

  • whatwasherproblem on 01/06/2022 - 22:06
    +5

    Do "journalists" next.

    • Trying2SaveABuck on 01/06/2022 - 22:08
      +3

      they generally aren't a publicly paid professional their salaries arent public record - happy to look into other publicly paid jobs if ppl want this is kind of interesting

      • Username Goes Here on 02/06/2022 - 23:35
        +5

        Maybe you could look into MPs, councillors and public servants. I’m pretty sure most are over paid for the little that they do!!

        All pretty interesting. Good job on the research.

        • ATangk on 03/06/2022 - 16:00

          Some are fairly paid. some…

        • Drakesy on 04/06/2022 - 17:02

          Spat my coffee out when i heard a Gold coast mayor is on $260,000 a year and a councillor on $150,000

          My council gives out an allowance of $40k per councillor and $90k for a mayor as its not a full time job.

          These councillors are having a grand old circle jerk at the ratepayers expense.

      • SydStrand on 03/06/2022 - 01:47
        +2

        These threads are gross. What's with this deep suspicion with what someone else makes? Your tax contribution to the pocket of individual nurses is miniscule. This conversation is nosy enough, without you specifically lobbing these questions at teachers and nurses. What's your job? And when can we expect a poll asking whether your profession is 'really' underpaid?

      • mskram on 03/06/2022 - 20:13

        The ABC article you shared in the teacher thread was used based on data from tax returns. That data is publicly available so you could do most professions from a taxable income point of view.

        • Trying2SaveABuck on 03/06/2022 - 20:52
          -1

          considering the hate im getting in some of the comments i dont think i'd do another thread literally got like 20 downvoates in the other thread …

    • brendanm on 01/06/2022 - 22:10
      +11

      That's an easy one - wildly overpaid.

      • sjj89 on 01/06/2022 - 22:12
        -1

        Nope. Name a job you have to work for free for 2-4 years before you get an entry level position paying 40-45k a year

        • brendanm on 01/06/2022 - 22:13
          +13

          40-45k a year

          Still overpaid.

          • sjj89 on 01/06/2022 - 22:14
            +4

            @brendanm: Didn’t know I was communicating with a child but okay

            • brendanm on 01/06/2022 - 22:16
              +10

              @sjj89: So someone writing the absolute garbage that is allegedly journalism, on a site like news.com.au, should be earning more than $45k a year? Did you not see that "journalists" was in quotation marks. Good thing you aren't an investigative journalist.

              • sjj89 on 01/06/2022 - 22:20
                +2

                @brendanm: No. I’m not.
                I have journalism degree, and have been through the processes around getting into that career.
                And witnessed the labour abuse the industry thrives off.
                And I know that anyone who makes their way through that turmoil definitely deserves to make - at a bare minimum - well below the average Australian income.

                It’s not easy work. Especially working under the thumb of an ethics-crushing employer like Murdoch/news.com.au

                • brendanm on 01/06/2022 - 22:26
                  +7

                  @sjj89:

                  And I know that anyone who makes their way through that turmoil definitely deserves to make - at a bare minimum - well below the average Australian income.

                  I agree.

                  I have a journalism degree

                  Who could have guessed. (Bold is my addition). Also, a sentence shouldn't generally start with "And".

                  • sjj89 on 02/06/2022 - 07:42
                    -2

                    @brendanm: Seriously, your grammar-Andy, there/their bs is tired

                    • brendanm on 02/06/2022 - 10:46
                      +7

                      @sjj89: I simply assumed someone who had spent years of their life, and thousands of dollars, on a journalism degree, would find that sort of thing second nature. Though looking at the atrocious spelling and grammar in most "articles" these days, it's really not surprising.

                • whatwasherproblem on 01/06/2022 - 22:46
                  +2

                  @sjj89:

                  It’s not easy work.

                  You know when the rest of us spend our working day browsing Twitter takes and pulling stuff out of our rear ends to argue nonsensical propaganda points about the Current Thing™, we at least have the decency to feel guilty about still drawing a salary.

                • redfox1200 on 05/06/2022 - 06:40

                  @sjj89: Click here to find out 10 weird tricks for being a highly paid journalist.

                  There I'm a journalist now!

          • whatwasherproblem on 01/06/2022 - 22:20
            +1

            @brendanm: Journalists should actually have to pay us to read their drivel.

        • juki on 03/06/2022 - 18:45

          translator

      • ThithLord on 02/06/2022 - 08:24
        +3

        Especially considering how embarrassing they are in this country

    • AustriaBargain on 01/06/2022 - 22:11
      +1

      30+ journalists have been killed in the Ukraine invasion, so clearly they aren't worth all that much. Israel also can kill journalists with impunity. If you're invading or occupying a territory then you probably would apply a negative value on journalists, you'd pay to get rid of them.

      • whatwasherproblem on 01/06/2022 - 22:31
        +2

        If you're invading or occupying a territory then you probably would apply a negative value on journalists, you'd pay to get rid of them.

        I'll keep mum about my own opinions on such journalists, noting to myself that this isn't /pol/ and I'm likely not among my people, but I will say I can at least respect the hustle required to do proper boots-on-the-ground investigative journalism.

        No, the ones I had in mind mostly were the news.com.au variety that seem to think "quoting bluechecks on Twitter" and "stealing stories from r/AskReddit" should be a respectable profession.

    • pegaxs on 01/06/2022 - 22:14
      +3

      Oh.. and then do politicians after that…

  • pandaoncoffee on 01/06/2022 - 22:10
    +33

    It's a hard job. The role does vary from department to department as well as level of responsibility.

    If a patient has a sudden deterioration, 99% of the time it's because a nurse identified and initiate the MET calls within a hospital. They also take part in those emergencies, which can be an extremely traumatising experience.

    They are frequently mistreated by patients, the patient's families, and sometimes by other clinicians. It can be something ridiculous as "you're just a nurse" to being assaulted, maimed and even murdered. It's highly skilled profession, but they aren't treated like it is. A lot of patients think of them as servants.

    At the end of the day, it's a physically taxing job, it takes a lot of sacrifice as it often involves shift work, and there is a high level of responsibility (i.e. over people's lives!). So yes, they are severely underpaid. If you or your loved ones have a near death situation, chances are, it's likely that it was a nurse that picked up on it. You better hope that they are being paid well for what they are doing!

    • Dlw on 01/06/2022 - 22:56
      +7

      Couldn't agree more! My wife worked as a Nurse, then Midwife and now a Nurse Unit Manager in a public hospital and the stories she has shared is truly troubling.
      Additionally, when my daughter was in the Special Care Nursery, it was the nurse that noticed her sudden deterioration and went on to resuscitate her.

    • parisienne on 02/06/2022 - 19:34
      +2

      Amen to all this,hence the reason I have just left the industry after 30 + years in the industry.I am now about to go into a sales position (completely different industry),and can honestly say that the couple of $ an hour less I am making there is offset by the specialist fees and possible daily trip to Uncle Dan's that were close to happening had I not left….I am not alone in this exodus.

    • SlavOz on 03/06/2022 - 10:30
      -7

      A lot of patients think of them as servants.

      Well, they don't let you get your own meds or replace your own IV bag, so I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to do it.

      If you or your loved ones have a near death situation, chances are, it's likely that it was a nurse that picked up on it

      Well no shit. They're paid to watch the machines and patients. Of course they're going to be the first ones to notice if something is wrong. It's hardly an act of heroism or sacrifice.

      You could train a dog to listen for certain noises on the heart rate monitor and then start barking if they hear it.

      I'm on the side of nurses here too but let's not pretend they're modern day heroes. At least 30% of them hate their job and treat patients like shit.

      Every job is hard. Think of the disgusting filth that a garbage man has to endure every day. And if he doesn't do it, your garbage doesn't get collected, and we get plagues, rats, infections, and death. Pay them more money!!

      • DiscountForThee on 03/06/2022 - 11:59
        +4

        Knowing that they have to change your IV bag is different to treating them like dirt, not respecting the human, and expecting them to tend to your every wish 24/7 when there might be people dying in a room next to you.

        They have work to do, but no one should ever be treated like a servant.

        • SlavOz on 03/06/2022 - 12:16
          -5

          I don't think patients asking nurses to switch on their TV or scratch their back is a widespread issue. Yes patients are needy but its also important to remember that they are humans too, and it's not easy being sick or in pain, especially if it's your first time. People don't always the good spirit to ask nicely or be patient. It's just the way it is.

          • DiscountForThee on 03/06/2022 - 12:28
            +2

            @SlavOz:

            People don't always the good spirit to ask nicely or be patient. It's just the way it is.

            This is exactly the problem, and why the original comment said "A lot of patients think of them as servants."

    • juki on 03/06/2022 - 18:51
      +1

      yeah who is putting that cannula in for the chemo that if it leaks could require months of surgery…

      its really the abuse that gets to me, I dont ask for it and treat everyone as if they were my parent. Lets not forget our quiet friends the cleaners and kitchen staff that get a lot of abuse (usually racist abuse… :/ )

  • Almost Banned on 01/06/2022 - 22:34
    +5

    Although they are all very different, traditionally I have felt there should be some level of comparability between teachers, nurses, and police as the largest categories of public serving government employees.
    So - let's compare their starting salaries (in Qld based on quick google search).
    Nurse - approx. $71k
    Teacher - approx. $75k
    Cop - $78k.
    On that analysis you'd have to say cops are overpaid (especially as they don't even need a degree) and nurses underpaid.

    • Quantumcat on 02/06/2022 - 08:51
      +2

      Fair, but cops risk their lives each shift (you could say nurses do a bit too). This kind of makes up for the fact they don't need a degree. They would need a degree if they want to move up the ranks out of being a street cop though.

    • Mr Haj on 03/06/2022 - 10:49
      +2

      I'd rather deal with kids or sick people than with armed criminals.

      • SlavOz on 03/06/2022 - 12:22

        There's very little armed conflict in Australia. Most criminals are just petty thugs carrying around a dodgy knife at worst.

        Most of the time cops get physical, it's because they decided to escalate to that point. It's very rare for police to get maliciously attacked and need to defend themselves. And 90% of them just patrol, hand out fines, and log paperwork anyway. They are definitely overpaid. When we do have serious crimes committed, like the Sydney Cafe hostage situation, their response has been a national disgrace. 2 people died in the whole thing and one of them was killed by police fire.

        • pulpfiction on 03/06/2022 - 14:36
          +2

          Healthcare professionals get assaulted on the regular. Stats in the US show HC pros have more violence incidents than cops.

          They're dealing with very unwell and often drug affected individuals with limited security and protection. Most Nurses, Residents and Emergency / Psyc Consultants are all classic examples of being underpaid with the sacrifice and crap they deal with. They are verbally abused on a daily basis, physical at least on the annual.

          • parisienne on 03/06/2022 - 21:00
            +3

            @pulpfiction: You bet we are.In just one hospital I worked at,we had staff shot (survived only because it was done in the A&E ) stabbed ( two survived,one did not)and threatened with dirty needles….and that isn't even starting with the abuse, assaults and stalking that we endure.Cops at least have the means to defend themselves…we,sadly, do not.

        • Icecold5000 on 03/06/2022 - 17:56
          +1

          Clown world comment. Domestic violence call-outs are amongst the most dangerous things an officer can attend to and they don’t involve criminals.

      • juki on 03/06/2022 - 18:52
        +3

        where do you think meth dealers and people with gunshot wounds go, nurses deal with you all

  • grrrr on 01/06/2022 - 22:38
    +1

    Shiftwork, weekend, and public holiday rates are amazing.

    A work mates partner, who is a nurse, earns more than me or my mate and we are salary paid engineers that have to work both days of the weekend to get 1 day in lieu…

    • brendanm on 01/06/2022 - 22:53
      +16

      have to work both days of the weekend to get 1 day in lieu…

      What? Why would you even do this?

  • boomramada on 01/06/2022 - 22:46

    They probably fairly paid, but it's not easy to give them a pay rise as nurses are the bottom of heath care pyramid hence lots of them. However compare to $$$ earning lolly pop girls on toktok, nurses are under paid.

  • Benoffie on 01/06/2022 - 23:15
    +9

    Well, to give you an idea, I've spent the week in hospital with a relative.

    Nurses are knocking off at 10pm and are back at 8am. Seems to be a regular thing. But the Specialist we're dealing with just came in for rounds at 10pm after getting in from country hospital visits.

    Now, I appreciate Specialist's are renumerated for that. $450 for a passing glance plus whatever assessment he's doing. It compensates for the expertise. But he's not the one administering drugs, taking bloods, bathing, wiping, putting up with the swearing and everything else.

    Just like teachers, I think nurses need to be paid more. And it needs to factor in qualifications, risks, placement etc.

    • hobo123 on 03/06/2022 - 16:48
      +3

      Back at 7am not 8am!

    • lilyesp on 04/06/2022 - 07:28
      -1

      So you'd be happy for a nurse to lead your relatives care? Rather than doctor. Ok bud

  • orangetrain on 01/06/2022 - 23:19
    +7

    Are CEO's really underpaid thread next. Picking on the necessary people in society is lame.

    • SF3 on 02/06/2022 - 00:32
      -1

      They are at the top of the pyramid scheme, everyone else below and lower tier the less pay.

    • pais on 02/06/2022 - 08:20
      +1

      "Is your direct line manager overpaid" would at least get everyone on OzB on the same side.

      Too many temporarily embarrassed millionaires to provide an honest or valuable assessment of CEOs.

    • SlavOz on 03/06/2022 - 10:36
      -2

      CEOs work 80 hours a week to keep businesses profitable. If they don't do it, then nobody has a job, and Netflix, life-saving medication, iPhones, vaccines, food, etc suddenly stop coming in.

      Picking on people just because they're not working in your direct line of sight is lame.

      • pais on 03/06/2022 - 11:47
        +1

        Sycophants are nothing if not predictable.

        Do me harder, Daddy Elon.

  • Melburnian on 01/06/2022 - 23:46
    +8

    Even if you put aside the over-work and underappreciation and what an admirable job they do, the demand is high and the supply is low, so they're underpaid in that market sense. We're always having to cancel elective surgeries and patients are kept waiting in ED (or ramped with ambulances) because there aren't enough nurses to staff all the beds that are otherwise physically available in the hospital.

  • morse on 02/06/2022 - 00:29
    +9

    What is that you do for work OP? (that you keep questioning everyone else's pay)

    Queensland public sector nurses do well in terms of pay compared to their counterparts in some other states, and definitely better than nurses in aged care, so the pay scale you've referred to probably isn't representative across the board.

  • stonesour on 02/06/2022 - 03:20
    +2

    Healthcare , education, utilities, most government services don’t operate through a purely Profit focused metric like listed companies.

    Casualisation of jobs at the junior level, increasing difficulty for gain traditional permanent positions with benefits.

  • farknos on 02/06/2022 - 07:33

    In WA most of them struggle to get full time employment and yes sh!t job for not enough pay imo.

  • DR-JEKL on 02/06/2022 - 07:51
    +4

    I'm currently reading E.R nurses by James Patterson, its a series of short stories of their experiences in nursing and its pretty wild some of the stuff they have to do! I always thought nurses were amazing but this book for me was really an eye opener.

  • cheaplee on 02/06/2022 - 07:55
    +2

    The standard RN looking after patients could always justify more pay. They have a hard job and are under appreciated by everyone.

    The nurses that no longer nurse patients for the bulk of their work, ie NUMs, clinical nurses, nurse educators, etc are probably overpaid. Their pay goes up quite significantly, but the patient based work disappears. The extra money should be for assuming more responsibility, but realistically they assume very little responsibility and defer most clinical decisions to junior doctors without thinking twice.

    Just my opinion, based in metropolitan hospitals. This would be very different in rural hospitals I'm sure.

  • ForkSnorter on 02/06/2022 - 08:16

    I think there are two sides to looking at questions like this.

    The first side is that nurses have to work hard in challenging environments, and they do one of the most important jobs in the country.

    The second side is that practically anyone can become a nurse, and employment is virtually guaranteed, and the pay isn't bad.

    I'd say they are paid fairly if you compare the median full-time nurse salary to the median household income in Australia.

    But I'd say an entry level nurse on $65k is underpaid, because the work would be hard, and the work is essential.

    The problem is, Australia is facing inflation and a massive reevaluation of the value of the $, partly because house prices have nearly doubled in many places over the last few years, and in some places they've more than doubled. So we will be getting people asking whether a $100k salary is underpaid. Several years ago that would have been inconceivable. Australian salaries have tripled over the last 30 years. Over the same period, full-time Japanese salaries have gone up about 10-15% at most (and permanent full-time employment has become quite rare). Everything is relative.

    • Mr Haj on 03/06/2022 - 10:52

      65k is good for an entry level job. Not sure what industry you're working in.

  • WT on 02/06/2022 - 08:50
    +2

    neighbour my age that I grew up with was an RN and now a specialist, 100% that job is draining

  • scrambledeggs on 02/06/2022 - 09:01
    -7

    The fact is basically anyone can be a nurse, it does not require strong strong academia. Free market decides what to pay staff. They are paid according to the market.

    • Quantumcat on 02/06/2022 - 09:49
      +2

      That's not true. You need to have maths skills (I guess for dosing and concentrations of drugs). I tutored a few students studying nursing when I lived in Bathurst (Charles Sturt uni is there, they do nursing and paramedic degrees).

    • brendanm on 02/06/2022 - 10:50
      +2

      does not require strong strong academia.

      Yes, because this is the only thing of value 😂

      The fact is basically anyone can be a nurse,

      Give it a crack then, fact is you probably wouldn't last a day.

      • scrambledeggs on 02/06/2022 - 15:47
        +2

        You're right, I wouldn't last a day, which is why I chose a different profession. Don't get me wrong, I think being a nurse is an extremely tough job and they are absolute weapons for doing what they do, but the fact is the barrier to entry is low so the pay is low. It's the same as being a child carer or a teacher.

        • brendanm on 02/06/2022 - 16:52
          -1

          No, the barrier to entry is not low. You have to be able to actually do the job, and deal with everything that deal with every day, which rules out a large part of the population straight away.

          Teachers had to do the same 4 years of uni as you did, as well as deal with kids and parents, much more difficult than just going to work, doing your job, going home.

          Same with child care, how many people can deal with that many kids, all day, every day? You also obviously have no idea about how childcare centres are run, and what they have to do with the kids these days.

          Academic ≠ better/harder

        • Tonyh87 on 02/06/2022 - 22:56
          +2

          Perhaps the barrier to entry is low due to the demand for nurses being high. ATAR is more based on supply vs demand, and as nursing is in high demand, a lower ATAR score required to fill the spots in the course. As for it not requiring strong academia, modern nursing is not just about making beds and showering people. You need good knowledge of anatomy, physiology, pharmacology, biochemistry, maths, and ethics law. I would say that the main reason that the pay is low for a professional career would be that there is no bargaining power to negotiate pay (in public health), as the government (in NSW) capped the maximum pay increase at 2.5%, which is well below inflation at the moment, and when covid came, they refused to honour the agreed pay rise and instead payed something like 0.3%. They know that nurses will not walk away from sick patients and allow them to die in order to get a fair pay increase, and have ruled striking as being illegal. On top of this, the hospital system is falling apart, and nurses and doctors cannot speak to the media without facing disciplinary action.
          To get change, we need to encourage members of the public to write formal complaints to their local politicians and the media about ED waiting times, understaffed wards, and surgery cancellations due to no beds being available in hospitals. Let them know that they wont get reelected if they don't fix the system, including nurses pay, and publicly shame them for allowing the system to collapse.

          • SlavOz on 03/06/2022 - 10:40

            @Tonyh87:

            complaints to their local politicians and the media about ED waiting times

            I tried this on Ozbargain already. Even linked to official data showing that ED waiting times are inflated due to people coming in for trivial, non-urgent reasons.

            They didn't take too kindly to it.

          • Save Medicare on 03/06/2022 - 22:38

            @Tonyh87: I agree with almost all of this. Write to your MPs!

    • Tonyh87 on 02/06/2022 - 14:08
      +1

      Just curious, what level of education do you have to earn 140000 in the construction industry?

      • scrambledeggs on 02/06/2022 - 15:44

        bachelor of engineering

        • Mr Haj on 03/06/2022 - 15:58
          +1

          a degree with a higher barrier to entry.

    • morse on 02/06/2022 - 15:04
      +1

      Academic or not many people wouldn’t be able to hack it as a nurse. Also the course isn’t as easy as you’d think to be an RN.

      Further pay is definitely definitely not decided by the free market. There are awards in place and it’s a largely unionised profession.

      • scrambledeggs on 02/06/2022 - 15:45

        Awards are developed based on the free market.

        • morse on 02/06/2022 - 17:23
          -1

          There isn’t a free market for labour in Australia. ‘Free market’ means without regulation. There’s a minimum wage and various standards in place even where there isn’t an award. Awards also aren’t only based on competition either even within a regulated market.

  • HelpMeiCantSee on 02/06/2022 - 09:02
    +9

    I would ask you to do one shift in an emergency department. Just one. And then you will know the answer.

    • SlavOz on 03/06/2022 - 10:43
      +1

      You could say this about any job. Come to my office for a day and deal with my shithead manager nagging you all the time, 200 emails to answer before lunch, and countless customers being rude to me on the phone.

      If the whole world was forced to do this they'd probably agree I deserve a pay rise too. Every job is hard.

      • HelpMeiCantSee on 03/06/2022 - 10:52
        +1

        Every job has its hard aspects. I urge you. One day mate, that’s all it’ll take to appreciate it.

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