How is crypto "decentralised" if it's bought and sold with real money?

SlavOz on 20/06/2022 - 10:36

I have a lot of friends in crypto and they can't seem to answer this. They go on about how it's decentralised, so no tracking, you can bypass government rules and economic tactics etc. I'm all for that, but how exactly does crypto achieve this if it's purchased, sold, and valued with official government (fiat) currency?

The only reason people seem to buy crypto these days is to make money off it. Nobody is actually investing in the benefit of decentralised payment, they just want to make real money off it.

Everyone who buys crypto currency says they're doing it because government money is all bullshit, yet as soon as the market ticks upwards they trade their crypto back in for government money.

Sure most people already know this. I'm not opposed to crypto - if it makes money, good for you. But it can't really be decentralised if the only reason people buy and sell it is for regulated fiat money. This means it's really just adding another step in the usual economic transaction process - instead of paying someone directly, you pay them with monopoly money that can be traded in for real money.

Financial Cryptocurrency

Comments

        • rektrading on 20/06/2022 - 17:47

          May be you live in the wrong country?

  • Cave Fire on 20/06/2022 - 15:54

    video explaining blockchain basics: https://www.ted.com/talks/don_tapscott_how_the_blockchain_is… . Decentralization means the data is split and no one can access/modify transactions. Most blockchains are in a sliding scale from centralised to decentralised.

  • Pcosmic on 20/06/2022 - 16:55
    +1

    Crypto is trash. You only do it to get rich quick. Blockchain technology is just another tech that can be replicated by anyone.

    Don't overthink it

  • [Deactivated] on 20/06/2022 - 21:36
    +1

    Blockchain in its simplest terms is a decentralised database that is inefficient, uses huge amounts of energy to run and is a solution to a problem that does not exist.

    After 10 years, no one is yet to show a functional use for Crypto besides criminals using it to launder real world currencies

    Warren Buffet:
    "wouldn’t buy all of the bitcoin in the world for $25. It doesn’t produce anything"

    Bill Gates:
    "These digital assets were '100% based on greater fool theory,' where investors make money on worthless or overvalued assets as long as people were willing to bid higher on them."

    • rektrading on 20/06/2022 - 22:10
      -1

      One is best frens with pedophiles and the other one sells cancer sticks.

      They're world-class people.

      • [Deactivated] on 20/06/2022 - 22:16
        +1

        Foil Hats much …

        • rektrading on 20/06/2022 - 22:17
          -1

          I call it like I see it.

  • Toph Beifong on 20/06/2022 - 22:07
    +1

    The goal is to make money and cash back out into fiat cause we all know stable coins are a sham

  • techlead on 21/06/2022 - 08:08
    +1

    Bitcoin is decentralised because you don't need permission to receive and transfer it. No court or government can direct a third party to take Bitcoin away from you, as long as you hold your own keys. If you have it on an exchange like Binance, then they can direct Binance to confiscate your Bitcoin. However, if you have it on a hardware wallet with the seed phrases secured, there's nothing the government or third party can do to take your Bitcoin, apart from bully and threaten you.

    Note that I specifically said Bitcoin because being a crypto currency doesn't automatically make it decentralised. Look at Solend, a project on Solana, they are not decentralised, the project itself holds over 90% of the governance tokens, so they can vote to pass anything they want, which they did to seize control of a whale wallet with a large position that is close to liquidation. This cannot occur on Bitcoin, there must be consensus which is a high threshold to pass in order to enact any changes to the Bitcoin protocol, hence its decentralised.

    • rektrading on 21/06/2022 - 09:18

      Look at Solend, a project on Solana

      PoS has now proven to be a scam.

  • shaybisc on 21/06/2022 - 08:15

    Bitcoin was designed to be transparent and traceable. It was designed enhance compliance and make it easier for authorities to enforce taxation regulations

    • techlead on 21/06/2022 - 08:30
      +1

      The FBI actually prefers drug dealers to move to Bitcoin, it would make their job alot easier.

      If you do a deal in cash, unless there's s camera there capturing the transaction, its very hard to prove after the fact that the transaction took place. If it happened with Bitcoin, the transaction is there on the blockchain for all to see until the end of time. You can trace all the linked wallets and potentially find the associates and other parties up and down the supply chain.

      • askbargain on 21/06/2022 - 09:04

        CoinJoin and layer 2 aren’t a thing.

        • rektrading on 21/06/2022 - 09:22

          The #Bitfinex hack has proven that #Bitcoin is 100% trackable and shouldn't be used for money laundering and by criminals.

          • askbargain on 21/06/2022 - 10:35

            @rektrading: Quick google says that

            Eventually, the funds made their way into more traditional financial accounts

            So it sounds like they linked the coins to themselves, not because of chain analysis.

        • techlead on 21/06/2022 - 09:24

          Even coin washers has its limits, if they are on the Bitcoin blockchain, it can be traced. Criminals are using Monero and other privacy coins now.

          • askbargain on 21/06/2022 - 10:32

            @techlead: Good thing you can easily swap BTC and XMR on non-KYC exchanges.

            • techlead on 21/06/2022 - 11:04
              +1

              @askbargain: And DEXes as well. But still, most criminals don't go through the trouble and if they become too successful, there's not enough volume to support it.

              Most criminals nowadays still use fiat. Scams involving cryptocurrency is getting alot of screen time in the mainstream media, but fiat is used alot more often in scams.

              • rektrading on 21/06/2022 - 11:24

                @techlead: Q. How do people make $1B of fiat money disappear?

                A. Put it on a pallet on an aeroplane and fly it into a warzone.

                • techlead on 21/06/2022 - 11:36
                  +1

                  @rektrading: More than a $1B. Look at the billons the US and Australia (our tax money) that's being poured into Ukraine.

                  Remember those Bush something armour vehicles we sent to Ukraine? They are destroyed, I saw pictures of them in a pro-Russian telegram all burnt out.

  • Waltervp on 21/06/2022 - 10:07
    -1

    Crypto is not there for making money! It's not designed to make money. It is designed as an alternative cash currency online. But because it is relatively new it needs to find its place and value, and then people speculate and make/lose money as with anything. Tesla shares and Westpac shares aren't made to make you money either, but people still invest in them…

    Eventually there will be a lot of crypto currencies, Woolworths and eBay, Facebook, PayPal and IGA could all potentially have their own crypto currencies. You can earn and pay using crypto currencies once they are common, but right now we need a bridging method to get crypto from our original fiat currencies into crypto. I accept crypto, Locanto accepts crypto other retailers do too, just not popular right now… which doesn't mean it's going, it just means it is worth less now. Greek drachmas and Israeli shekels all went through these phases, it is a new currency. Also don't forget that USB existed for almost a decade before it became popular, as did email and websites, even electricity and telephone were shunned in the first few decades of their existence, as were cars and plane travel….

    • rektrading on 21/06/2022 - 10:16

      https://www.cnbc.com/select/visa-backs-first-credit-card-to-…
      Visa backs the first-ever credit card to offer bitcoin rewards
      Visa and BlockFi partnered to release the Bitcoin Rewards Visa Credit Card, which is the first credit card to offer Bitcoin rewards.
      Updated Fri, Sep 17 2021 Alexandria White

      . #Bitcoin is dyiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing……………………….

      • techlead on 21/06/2022 - 11:05
        +1

        haha, I heard that when Bitcoin was at $20, $2000 and now $20k, its the same story at different price levels. Bitcoin has "died" so many times before.

        • rektrading on 21/06/2022 - 11:22

          . #Bitcoin died 420 times.

          • techlead on 21/06/2022 - 11:31
            +1

            @rektrading: 455 times now.

            https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin-obituaries/

            Read some of the articles from years back.

            Like this one from 2012, https://99bitcoins.com/wired-tired-expired-for-2012-expired-…

            “Wired, Tired, Expired for 2012: EXPIRED – Bitcoin” – Wired | $13.30

            At the height of its popularity, Bitcoin was trumpeted as a viable alternative currency for the internet age, a monetary system engineered to prevent theft, gaming, and criminalization. Then came the malware, the black market, the legal ambiguities and The Man. Today, you can’t even use it to buy Facebook stock.

            I just had a good hearty laugh at this one. lmao "At the height of its popularity" (At $13.30 USD) hahahhwahahahahwahahahah

      • Autonomic on 21/06/2022 - 12:22

        Visa partnered with them the same way Toyota partnered with someone when they sold them a Camry.

    • SlavOz on 21/06/2022 - 10:20
      +4

      Tesla shares and Westpac shares aren't made to make you money either, but people still invest in them…

      Wut? The idea of selling shares is for people to make money by investing in a business and helping it grow.

      • rektrading on 21/06/2022 - 10:46
        -1

        $TSLA is a growth stonks that doesn't pay divs while $WBC is a value stonks with zero growth.

    • Autonomic on 21/06/2022 - 12:21
      +2

      Eventually there will be a lot of crypto currencies, Woolworths and eBay, Facebook, PayPal and IGA could all potentially have their own crypto currencies

      What a nightmare of an idea. Let me guess, we'll eventually come up with a cross platform unit of money that we can use everywhere? We could call it a dollar!

      • rektrading on 21/06/2022 - 14:11

        The guilder used to be the top currency until the pound took over. The pound was then replaced by the greenback. The greenback will be replaced by either the yuen or something else.

        The history of currency comes in cycles. The greenback will be replaced. It's just a matter of when and by what.

        • Autonomic on 21/06/2022 - 14:35

          We're not talking about a reserve currency.

          • rektrading on 21/06/2022 - 14:46
            -1

            @Autonomic: All fiat 💵 in the history of money goes to -99.99.

            • Autonomic on 21/06/2022 - 14:59

              @rektrading: Which is why everyone either earns interest on it or puts it to work in assets.

              • rektrading on 21/06/2022 - 15:28

                @Autonomic: Earning yield on fiat 💵 doesn't stop fiat from being devalued.

                The people who think that interest increases fiat's value needs a lesson on how Nixon destroyed people's savings.

                • Autonomic on 21/06/2022 - 15:54

                  @rektrading: It's easy to beat CPI by putting your money to work. Ironically high inflation is devaluating crypto way more than fiat at the moment - isn't that funny?

                  • rektrading on 21/06/2022 - 16:00

                    @Autonomic:

                    It's easy to beat CPI by putting your money to work

                    CPI is 5.1% and inflation is +15.0%.

                    There isn't a single financial institution that can give yield on fiat 💵 anywhere close to CPI let alone inflation.

                    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/tag/savings-account

                    1.25-4.05% p.a. Interest on Your Term Deposit from 3 Months to 5 Years (Minimum Deposit $1,000) @ Judobank

                    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/12081284/redir
                    Autonomic on 03/05/2022 - 13:45
                    +10
                    How are they able to offer such high rates compared to everyone else?

                    You said yourself right here.

                    • Autonomic on 21/06/2022 - 16:16

                      @rektrading: Inflation isn't 15%. Long term it's easy to beat CPI.

                      • rektrading on 21/06/2022 - 16:17
                        -1

                        @Autonomic: The things that I buy are up by +15.0 YoY.

                        • Autonomic on 21/06/2022 - 16:19

                          @rektrading: So?

                          • rektrading on 21/06/2022 - 16:23

                            @Autonomic: It's pretty simple.

                            CPI is a lie. People who think that CPI reflects their real-life inflation are swallowing what the feds are feeding them.

                            • Autonomic on 21/06/2022 - 16:25
                              +1

                              @rektrading: Right. And you're some sort of genius savant who has no formal education in finance or economics, yet still somehow knows better?

                              • rektrading on 21/06/2022 - 16:28

                                @Autonomic:

                                And you're some sort of genius savant with no formal education in finance or economics yet somehow knows better?

                                I can see that you've moved on to the attacking the poster stage instead of staying on topic.

                                Enjoy the rest of the day.

                                • Autonomic on 21/06/2022 - 16:34
                                  +1

                                  @rektrading: I see you've moved on to the I can't back up what I'm saying so I'm going to leave stage

                      • rektrading on 21/06/2022 - 16:21

                        @Autonomic:

                        Long term it's easy to beat CPI.

                        Beating CPI over the long term is moving the conversation from comparing short-term CPI to long term CPI.

                        . #Bitcoin has beaten CPI by 6,000,000% over the long term.

                        • Autonomic on 21/06/2022 - 16:23

                          @rektrading: If we're talking about short term then Bitcoin has been rekt far more by this high inflationary period than fiat.

                          If we're talking about long term then fiats devaluation is a non issue because it's easy to beat CPI.

  • Autonomic on 21/06/2022 - 12:25
    +2

    Cryptocurrency (and anything blockchain related) is a scam, no matter which way you slice it.

  • DingoBilly on 22/06/2022 - 11:50

    It's not ultimately.

    It has all the qualities of existing currency. Follows the normal markets, requires normal currency to buy/actually sell into…

    It's good to make money off others, but there is no utility beyond that at end of day. Fun little ponzi scheme but it really has no benefit beyond that.

  • rektrading on 01/07/2022 - 23:00

    https://twitter.com/jacski/status/1542682049466626050
    Control of money is HERE! PULL OUT.

    Not your key, not your money.

    • [Deactivated] on 03/07/2022 - 12:45
      -1

      they all waiting for you… https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/710212

      • SBOB on 06/07/2022 - 18:22

        Pretty sure rektrading is DCA'ing his average monthly post count down by not posting, after posting the dip (PTFD) last month :)

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