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[NSW] $0 Upfront 5.67 kW Solar PV System and 10.1 kWh Battery on 7-Year Plan @ On by EnergyAustralia

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[NSW] $0 Upfront 5.67 kW Solar PV System and 10.1 kWh Battery on 7-Year Plan @ On by EnergyAustralia
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[Deactivated] on 03/07/2022 - 23:20 experienceon.com.au (2507 clicks)
Last edited 04/07/2022 - 14:57 by 1 other user

You'll pay a competitive usage rate for the electricity you use. This rate won't increase for the life of the plan. (7 Years)

Minimum usage criteria of 16kWh per day.

They will install a 5.67 kW Tier 1 solar PV system and 10.1 kWh battery which you own after the 7 years.

My personal calculations (which will not be the same as yours) is that it would cost me $3500 over 7 years because that "competitive usage rate" and the access charges are higher than what I'm currently paying. Which seems like a good deal? Since the rates are fixed if the market price increases (as it is expected to) it's an even better deal.

The price of the plan I was quoted was

Blended Rate Usage Charge: 30.5c per kWh
Controlled load 2 rate: 20.3c per kWh
Daily supply charge: $0.96

FAQ

full terms and conditions

Electrical & Electronics Solar Battery Solar Energy System

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On by EnergyAustralia
On by EnergyAustralia

closed Comments

  • michael9865 on 03/07/2022 - 23:26

    I'm assuming this is after government and state incentives?
    Also does it include getting that interest free loan?
    This seem like a very good deal to me if the only thing you are paying is electricity bills at a fixed rate for 7 years and after you own it

  • Drakesy on 03/07/2022 - 23:28

    So wait, do you pay the usage rate on top of what the energy company charges you?

    Seems very cheap for a battery system if it's only $3500

    • Thrifty Dan on 03/07/2022 - 23:32
      +5

      Better off buying yourself a battery and solar system. I did it and works all fine. I don’t pay more than 19 cents per kw and only buy power when it’s cheap between 10.00-15.00.

      • pOint01 on 04/07/2022 - 00:08

        Can I ask who you went with for the battery, which battery and the price?

        • Thrifty Dan on 04/07/2022 - 00:12
          +3

          Energy Locals Adelaide, Tesla Powerwall 2, $13,000 incl. delivery and installation.

          • pOint01 on 04/07/2022 - 00:18

            @Thrifty Dan: Thanks heaps. Also got a similar quote but with my usage I would only start to save money just as the warranty expires on the battery :(

            • Thrifty Dan on 04/07/2022 - 00:25
              +2

              @pOint01: No worries. We have a 2 years old house with good insulation and very energy efficient. We mostly use our own produced power and we are most of the time off grid. We live also a bit out of town and experience often grid outages on bad weather. We work from home and the system works great for us. They guarantee after 10 years a certain efficiency of the battery, and if it’s under that we get a new one.

            • Thrifty Dan on 04/07/2022 - 00:28

              @pOint01: Energy locals is the electricity provider with the Tesla plan. We bought it at All State Solar in Adelaide. Sorry for the confusion.

            • Phoenixzeus on 04/07/2022 - 08:23
              +1

              @pOint01: Surely breaking even is a good enough deal to have your entire house on a UPS? Even if most don't work without a mains power connection.

              • pOint01 on 04/07/2022 - 12:31
                +1

                @Phoenixzeus: True. I guess I need to change my mind set a little of paying 10 years worth of electricity bills in advance however not sure it would completely replace my bills and if I will be here for 10 years.

              • Nom on 04/07/2022 - 14:45

                @Phoenixzeus: That's not quite how it works - the battery has a maximum output of say 5KW. So for example, you can't boil your kettle and run your AC at the same time when you're in UPS mode.

                It's UPS mode for your essentials only.

            • Thrifty Dan on 04/07/2022 - 00:28

              @nomisg: Energy locals is the electricity provider with the Tesla plan. We bought it at All State Solar in Adelaide. Sorry for the confusion.

            • Thrifty Dan on 04/07/2022 - 00:33

              @nomisg: Yes that’s part of the agreement to be with this provider.

        • lgacb08 on 04/07/2022 - 07:00
          +1

          You won't get anything close to @callthespellpolice as he is in SA and probably got his system under a very generous rebate scheme a few years ago (where people got a full system with 10kwh battery for pretty much free with some).

    • [Deactivated] on 03/07/2022 - 23:33
      +2

      Take that $3500 with a grain of salt, it's going to depend on your own usage.

      You sign up to a fixed plan for 7 years, they are the energy company.

      • Drakesy on 04/07/2022 - 00:08
        +4

        I'm not sure if the maths are quite stacking up.

        The cost alone on the equipment will be $10k+

        Most of these $0 upfront schemes work out far more expensive, by as much as 50% in the long run (i did the maths before getting my system for $2250 outright.

      • WhyAmICommenting on 04/07/2022 - 08:50

        Plus, there’s will be terms and conditions saying they can change the rates if they need to right?

        So you’d be at their mercy, and would have to go to ombudsman if they go full gouge mode??

  • NoApostrophePlurals on 03/07/2022 - 23:34
    +2

    Your daily supply charge is already $2,452.80 over seven years. How are you working out your usage will only be $12.47 a month?

    • Thegood05 on 03/07/2022 - 23:37
      +3

      $3500 is the extra over 7 years that he will pay for the higher rates.

      • [Deactivated] on 03/07/2022 - 23:38
        +1

        yeah it's currently like 75c a day

        • lgacb08 on 04/07/2022 - 07:26
          +1

          You're looking at the short-term picture here, in SA few years ago people was paying 50c a kwh when they shut down coal. Better wait out for a few months to see if government give out incentives to cut power bill because they'll have to do that or get power companies to put their sh*t together. Committing to something like this in the heat of moment and it'll be a very expensive lesson for you.

          • Nom on 04/07/2022 - 14:46
            +1

            @lgacb08: On the flip side, if you think electricity prices are going up from here, then this is a great time to lock in a rate for the next seven years…

  • Thegood05 on 03/07/2022 - 23:35
    +9

    It seems that the electricity that the solar produce is not credited. So, they will use your roof and battery space to generate power and sell it to you for 7 years. You will pay for the higher rate for 7 years but will start saving after 7 years.

    • [Deactivated] on 03/07/2022 - 23:38
      +1

      yep

    • DesiredUsername on 04/07/2022 - 08:52

      This kind of arrangement is very common for commercial/utility scale solar, usually labelled as a PPA (Power Purchase Agreement).

  • Robin2012 on 03/07/2022 - 23:35
    +1

    mark

  • PeppaCat on 03/07/2022 - 23:38
    +3

    If you look at the page, it says "Estimated cost: $211 per month, Average daily usage:20 kWh"

    This is not cheap.

    • wetwork on 03/07/2022 - 23:41

      That's a low usage if it is a family of 4 in Winter etc. So charges will be higher.
      Is that the catch?

  • harryzee on 03/07/2022 - 23:38
    +3

    What state will the battery be after 7 years? Will it even last that long?

    • [Deactivated] on 03/07/2022 - 23:40
      +2

      https://files.experienceon.com.au/Assets/Documents/SMILE5%2B…

      5 Year Product Warranty, 10 Year Battery Warranty

      whatever that means

      • King Steuart on 04/07/2022 - 02:34

        Batteries are still not worthwhile but getting close not due to technological enhancements (seems Tesla is in no rush) but due to geopolitics.

        • WhyAmICommenting on 04/07/2022 - 08:52
          +1

          Dunno about the politics, but Tesla gear has been going up in price recently. The best time to get a PowerWall was prob 6-12 months ago

          • Steptoe on 04/07/2022 - 17:16
            +1

            @WhyAmICommenting: Tesla Powerwall battery chemistry isn't the right choice IMO. I'd be looking at LiFePO4 if you need a battery for home storage now.

  • Korban Dallas on 03/07/2022 - 23:47
    +1

    Going to cost you more than 3.5k.

    More like 12 to 18k

    That is with electricity included. Do a spreadsheet.

  • tm001 on 03/07/2022 - 23:50
    +2

    The math is not as simple. The $3500 over your current usage does not account for your savings should you purchase on your own.
    Before signing up make sure you calculate any savings for your circumstances. A commercial system like this may pay for itself around that time.

    • [Deactivated] on 03/07/2022 - 23:56

      Good point. The appeal of this is to me the inclusion of the battery, they're not cheap. A system without a battery would have a payoff less than 7 years for sure.

  • NoApostrophePlurals on 03/07/2022 - 23:52
    +5

    These $0 upfront costs are generally a scam to convince you it's worth it to get a battery with your solar package. I have no idea how the OP came up their usage and costs, bur I would assume that they are an outlier and does not represent the average household consumption that would consider benefiting.

    Going on the website:
    3 person Average Daily usage 17 kWh $184
    4 person Average Daily usage 20 kWh $211
    5 person Average Daily usage 25 kWh $257

    So respectively, your costs over seven years per average household is $15,456, $17,724 and $21,588.

    Surely it's still far better value to get just solar without the battery, manage your power usage smarter and get a feed in tariff. Our bills are between $5-10 a month on average. There's no way I'm going to save much more than that by installing a battery. It'd take two decades to break even.

    • Korban Dallas on 04/07/2022 - 04:38
      +5

      +1 this, better off with no battery.

      Get a 10kw or 13kw solar system.

      It's a bit of a crappy FiT at the moment but my 10kw system I paid 5.9k for I have no bills. Most money I got back was $328 in a quarter.

      • Omarko on 04/07/2022 - 06:17

        Whats ur average daily usage just out of interest. Mine is around 35kw per day so wonder what system would i need.

        • Korban Dallas on 04/07/2022 - 07:42
          +1

          About 12kw,

          Plus I am on a 20c fit until August.

          • Omarko on 04/07/2022 - 07:54

            @Korban Dallas: wow thats really low … I need to have a closer look whats using my power, at idle when most appliances are off (eg TVs) me meter is showing 700W consumption per hour. crazy … wonder what it can be.

            • DesiredUsername on 04/07/2022 - 08:54

              @Omarko: How old is your fridge?

              • Omarko on 04/07/2022 - 09:07

                @DesiredUsername: Brand new. Also have a smaller fridge in the garage and laundry but I ran the power testers on them and they are not the culprits.

            • Korban Dallas on 04/07/2022 - 11:09

              @Omarko: During spike hour with the tv on and Vodafone tv, 2 large fridges getting bit over half that.

              365 to 465.

              Microwaves can draw power too if faulty. Check that as well at idle

              • Omarko on 04/07/2022 - 14:10

                @Korban Dallas: I have one PC running 24/7, surveillance system and a spa so thats about 220-250W out of the 700W idle … rest I cant work out …. I am suspecting my Onkyo amp is culprit so need to investigate more.

                • Nom on 04/07/2022 - 15:12

                  @Omarko: Just switch everything off at the power point.

                  Then start powering things on one by one.

                  Also "and a spa" 👀

                • DesiredUsername on 04/07/2022 - 22:35

                  @Omarko: and a spa, found your problem.

                  • Omarko on 05/07/2022 - 06:11

                    @DesiredUsername: nah thats not the issue, its actually highly efficient. The filtration pump runs for 8 hours a day and the heater turns on for about an hour. prob consumers 4-5kwh a day.
                    there is something else that is drawing the 450-500W I cant figure out … need to keep looking…

      • docmartin on 04/07/2022 - 07:38

        How do you not pay bills - do you not use electricity when it's dark or is that accounting for the money generated by the solar that you don't use?

        • Korban Dallas on 04/07/2022 - 07:41
          +1

          I export a lot more than I use.

          Heat pump
          LED downlights
          Use dishwasher and wash clothes during the day

          • Cupa Bundy Drinker on 04/07/2022 - 08:09
            +2

            @Korban Dallas: I use conventional hot water tank, slightly modified to use 1.8kwh instead of 3.6kwh, working by timer during the day. This setup works really well.

            • Xizor on 04/07/2022 - 08:24

              @Cupa Bundy Drinker: Interested to know more about this. Ours is on a controlled load rate at the moment but due to its size seems to use a lot of power.

              • Cupa Bundy Drinker on 04/07/2022 - 08:40
                +4

                @Xizor: Mine is 315lt Rheem stellar, originally with 3.6kwh element, replaced with 1.8kwh - to spread the load across more hours. The element adjusted to use power above the export limit (during the less intense winter sun it works better too, as use mostly solar power even in cloudy weather). I do some timer adjustments during the year. In summer, it starts off at 9:30-10am, heats water around 4 hours, and depowers the tank at 3pm (otherwise it will top up the water temperature after several hours). In winter the heating takes a lot longer, so I adjust the timer to start earlier, but when there is enough sun.
                One of benefits of the timer is avoiding those top up cycles every several hours - when the water temperature in the tank drops by several degrees. I have family of 5, we all take shower or a few every day, never had problems with hot water.

                • Xizor on 04/07/2022 - 10:57

                  @Cupa Bundy Drinker: Thanks for sharing, this has been on my mind for some time but wasn't sure what was practical. We don't have solar yet but looking to get a 10-13kw system within the next 12 months (whatever we can fit basically). Our hot water tank is same size as yours (dux). Our controlled load usage for hot water is about 13 kWh per day which i thought seemed high, but since getting a lay-z-spa (6-12kWh per day depending on if used) i guess it may be normal. Did it cost you much to get setup like that?

                  We appear to be somewhat heavy users of power overall (average 30kwh before we got spa, so more now) per day for 2 people running very minimal heating to no heating (usually just electric throw rugs). What i thought were our high drain devices (enterainment, nas, computers etc) i put smart energy plugs on and are not using all that much power really, so not sure where its all going. There is a very old ducted system we barely use (controls dont seem to work other than on/off, cool/warm), turn it on maybe a handful of times a year. Might see if i can turn that off at the switchboard because otherwise im buggered if i know what is drawing all the power. Now that you mention it though maybe these top up cycles by the hot water system are behind it?

                  • Cupa Bundy Drinker on 04/07/2022 - 12:08

                    @Xizor: Hard to say the cost - the timer was installed as part of my requirements with the solar. The final quote was actually even less than advertised.
                    Hot water tank modification was pretty cheap – a new Rheem heating element costs ~$40, generic ones even cheaper.
                    So.. How hot water tanks work.. It heats up the water to the set temperature (60-70 degrees), when you consume it - the water is mixed with cold water to 50 degrees using the tempering valve. So, basically you have a "concentrated" hot water in the tank. Once the water temperature drops a few degrees (5, I guess) below the set temperature, I kicks off again. Depending on the set temperature (the higher is less efficient, as leads to an increased speed of getting to the thermodynamic equilibrium), the tank insulation and the outside temperature the top up process can be quite frequent. I believe, controlling this process can give you some savings, but I wouldn't bother until you get the solar.
                    Btw, do you have halogen downlights? They can burn money at a good pace..

                    • Xizor on 04/07/2022 - 15:14

                      @Cupa Bundy Drinker: Thanks mate. No halogens except for 1 sensor light, everything else is all LED. Our hot water use is definitely spread throughout the day and evening though with 2 people, multiple showers per day, mostly working from home and a habit of using warm water for most things…. not a habit ill have success changing with the other half. Definitely need to explore your setup with our solar ambition.

                    • Korban Dallas on 04/07/2022 - 21:43
                      +1

                      @Cupa Bundy Drinker: Just be careful of Legionella in the tank.

                      Needs to reach certain temps every now and then.

                      • Cupa Bundy Drinker on 04/07/2022 - 22:08

                        @Korban Dallas: Thanks mate. Just checked how to avoid it - we should be good. We use a lot of hot water in all showers every day, and the tank thermostat is set to 70C.

            • Korban Dallas on 04/07/2022 - 09:51
              +1

              @Cupa Bundy Drinker: Heat pump dryer too. It's got an 8 star rating.

          • Montyjpm on 04/08/2022 - 06:09

            @Korban Dallas: Which heat pump do you use for hot water?

  • [Deactivated] on 03/07/2022 - 23:52

    Origin has similar deal as well but never seen anything that sounds financially viable.

  • Michaelz101 on 03/07/2022 - 23:56
    +2

    Last year they were offering a Tesla powerwall 2 with this package and it has a bigger capacity than this battery here and in Sydney the blended rate last year was $0.26 cents/kWh. Seems like last year was the better deal

  • abetastic on 04/07/2022 - 01:02

    What happens if you sell your house? Do the next owners have to carry on with this plan too?

    • odysseus on 04/07/2022 - 01:16

      Seven years commences from date system is installed and commissioned. System exit fee payable to leave plan early (including selling/moving home, switching plans, becoming ineligible or defaulting on payments). Amount depends on when customer leaves and they own the system afterwards. Find out more here.

    • Nom on 04/07/2022 - 15:16

      Don't invest in long-term home projects like this if you're going to sell your house. You need to stay in the home for at least the number of payback years, otherwise you're just throwing money away.

  • Deviner on 04/07/2022 - 02:06
    +4

    Isn't this the usual bs the door to door sales people try sell you?

    As in, they tell you it's free then ask for a recent electricity bill, then tell you with their system you will have this paid off in X months.
    So you sign off on the install and it's basically signing up for finance for the install (which means its "free up front") and then you pay off the solar (who pass that on to the finance company) with your electricity savings over X amount of months and you end up paying more than if you were to just buy solar yourself and use one of their payment plans.

    The ones that did the rounds here (WA) were just buying bulk of 'whatever' solar panels were available so the panels could vary from one customer to the next and they were very rarely "top tier".

    I could be way off, but that's kinda what it reads like.

  • itshammer on 04/07/2022 - 06:23
    +3

    Let's put it this way.

    The company isn't a charity

    You're not going to be better off.

    There is always a catch unless it's clearance or a pricing error. This is neither

    • freefall101 on 04/07/2022 - 07:46

      It could just be a subsidised battery for them, if they get to control it. VPP have a huge amount of appeal as wholesale prices are spiking every evening, it costs power companies far more to buy the power than they make selling it. Instead of paying a FIT it goes in the battery that they draw from when the price hits $1,000+ mwh.

      Most energy providers want to switch to grid managers rather than generators. Locking people in that generate their own power for 7 years is great for them by itself.

      Granted, as per the OP, they’d basically pay $3500 to get a secondhand battery and solar setup 7 years from now. Which isn’t so great.

  • boretentsu on 04/07/2022 - 07:03
    +1

    My read on it: the energy company is getting an epic deal while the home owner is getting meh judging by the comments.

    Essentially the energy company is renting your rooftop and wall fee free for 7 years, generating and storing electricity for their own use. At 7 years, they will hand over the panels and battery having used the best years of its life for commercial gain which by then they have mostly written off for tax purposes anyway (if not most of the panels, then all of the battery). In the meantime, they will be charging you suboptimal electricity rates, locking in your business for 7 years guaranteed which is pretty awesome in a high turnover environment. In exchange, you get locked in for 7 years at meh rates, can't move houses and you get second hand fleet goods which could be a lottery.

    What would turn this deal around? Probably a refurbishment at the end and attractive discounted rates on daily charge and for the first X usage of the billing period with any excess being charged at the meh rates.

  • wosdam on 04/07/2022 - 07:13

    What will this system do in the event of a grid outages?

    • lgacb08 on 04/07/2022 - 07:27

      You still get charged.

      • Tleyx on 04/07/2022 - 08:37

        You can get credits if grid is down for some time

        This system.is irrelevant for this

  • Cupa Bundy Drinker on 04/07/2022 - 08:16
    +1

    Based on the hardware is average (and not sufficient) from beginning, after 7 years you'll get a lot of crap to remove on your walls and roof, with all your STC credits used. I would go outright, with 10kw of good (quality and good looking) panels or so. The system will pay for itself in 2-5 years, and you'll get 15 years of use more.

  • bluegrass on 04/07/2022 - 09:20

    I wonder what the lifespan of the battery is on average, and how much it will cost to have it replaced.
    Does the battery last much longer than 10 years?
    To take it away would take a truck and a crane (both electric naturally) which can't be cheap.
    The recycling costs of these batteries are very high as well.
    Is all that calculated into the estimated cost?

  • MikeKulls on 04/07/2022 - 09:27

    Have you done the calcs right? If you live off the battery and don't import power then they charge you 16kWh per day at 30c. Comes out to $12264

    • Nom on 04/07/2022 - 10:44

      So surely then you need to subtract your next seven years of electricity bills at your current rates, from that number ?
      For example $12264 - $7000 leaves you with a cost of $5264 for the used 7-year old battery and solar system when they become yours at the end of the term. In this example they would need to keep operating for a further 5.5 years after the 7 year period to be viable.

      • Cupa Bundy Drinker on 04/07/2022 - 10:54

        Don't forget to subtract STC credits for the panels and battery

        • Nom on 04/07/2022 - 11:22

          Aren't they already factored in to the price ? Usually the retailer will claim these on your behalf, so the numbers above already include the STC.

  • kev98 on 04/07/2022 - 09:51

    On the topic of solar, what battery system do people recommend? I have heard Tesla power wall is not the most cost effective solution

    • Cupa Bundy Drinker on 04/07/2022 - 09:59
      +1

      My calculations about the battery was like:
      - We use 5-7kwh after the sunset
      - The extra we pay (electricity rate - FIT) - 22c - 12c = 10c
      So, per day I can save $0.70 max, or $255 per year, or $2550 per ten years.
      Not viable for me.

      • MikeKulls on 04/07/2022 - 10:36
        +1

        And that assumes you use that power every day (no holidays for example), that the solar provides enough to charge the battery every day, that the battery is 100% efficient, interest on the battery is zero.

    • MikeKulls on 04/07/2022 - 10:34
      +1

      The most economical battery is to not get one. They cost $10k+ and will be lucky to save $250 a year. Savings are grossly exaggerated by many

      • Cupa Bundy Drinker on 04/07/2022 - 10:51

        Some people use aircons non-stop. It may work somehow for them.

        • MikeKulls on 04/07/2022 - 11:01
          +1

          You need to have low daily usage and high night time usage. The low daily usage is required to allow charging the battery from solar. Then high night usage to use the power from the battery. Not many people have this usage pattern

          • Nom on 04/07/2022 - 11:25

            @MikeKulls: It's only a 10KW battery. You don't need high night usage at all to benefit from the battery if you're doing a bit of electrical heating and cooking in the evening - in Melbourne and Tasmania for example, the split-systems heating your home will happily draw from the battery when you get home from work in the dark.

            • Cupa Bundy Drinker on 04/07/2022 - 11:32

              @Nom: Even worse then… Based on my calculations above, I can save $1 per day max.
              Even if we assume the battery is charged for free and the electricity cost $0.30 per kWh, the maximum saving is $3 per day, or $1095 per year.

              • Nom on 04/07/2022 - 11:33
                +1

                @Cupa Bundy Drinker: Absolutely - if you only use "5-7kwh after the sunset" then a battery is utterly pointless for you.

                But for the families who will usually empty the battery entirely in the evening with heating/cooling and cooking requirements, it starts to make more sense. As per the Melbourne example above, we could install 13KW batteries for about $5K last year after the Vic Gov rebates.

                • Cupa Bundy Drinker on 04/07/2022 - 11:44

                  @Nom: Let's change my use case a bit - increase my family consumption (5 people, induction stove, no gas) to 13 kWh (max battery capacity). So I would save $1.3 per day, or $474 per year, etc..
                  So I'll get my money back by the end of the warranty period.
                  To be honest, I'd consider the battery if I go totally off-grid, or as a lifestyle choice. Not from economical or eco-friendly perspective.

                  PS I live in QLD, so the heating is a lesser problem than in VIC

                  • Nom on 04/07/2022 - 11:53

                    @Cupa Bundy Drinker: Don't those 13KW each day save you more like $2.6 ? You were probably going to pay more like 20c for each of those KWh - we can't get power for 10c a unit in Vic 😁

                    • Cupa Bundy Drinker on 04/07/2022 - 12:11

                      @Nom: But you need to charge the battery. I would charge it with my solar panels, my current Feed-in tariff is $0.12. And my current electricity rate is $0.22. Hence, the saving is 10 cents per kWh.

        • MikeKulls on 04/07/2022 - 11:02
          +1

          I would add, even if you do fall into this usage pattern the battery will still save you bugger all.

          • kev98 on 04/07/2022 - 11:45

            @MikeKulls: Seperate question then: from an environmental perspective, even if you are coming out even is there benefit in fact you are not using fossil fuels?

            • Cupa Bundy Drinker on 04/07/2022 - 12:15
              +2

              @kev98: What is the environmental impact of manufacturing/transportation/disposal of the battery?

              My gut feeling says it is quite bad, comparing to the benefit.

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