Restuarant Surcharge - What’s Your Interpretation of This T&C?

So we went to a buffet restaurant last night and got into a bit of an argument with the cashier.

This is their T&C:

“(Price also applies for dinner on the night before a public holiday.)”

“ Please note a 0.85% surcharge applies for all credit card transactions. A 10% surcharge applies on Sundays. A 15% surcharge applies on all Public Holidays (one surcharge fee of 15% if Public Holiday falls on a Sunday). An additional service fee of 10% applies to bookings of 10 people or more.”

We’ve been charged the 15% surcharge which I was OK with then got slapped with the 10% on top of the whole bill. So based on their T&C I should’ve paid the normal price + 15% surcharge then that was it not this 15% + 10% double jeopardy?

Comments

    • +4

      You think rich people don’t look for bargains? Lots of rich people I know who are on 300-400k+ a year who don’t care they’re on high incomes, they still want value for money.

      Rich people don’t stay rich if they just spend frivolously on anything

      • -1

        I am sure rich people look for bargains, why wouldnt they?

  • +2

    Dude whatever you ate put you to sleep and the staff and management had turns to fist you

    • It didn’t put me to sleep, I reckon it’s just sedative so I was still OK to pull my card out, pay for the bill and not cause a scene on the spot.

      /joke

      • Good, you paid with a credit card? Then it is time for a dispute with that price list and your bill. The restaurant can talk their BS to the bank if they want.

  • +8

    Those surcharge terms are intentionally consuming imo. Why would surcharge be more the day before a public holiday? You dine the day before the public holiday and have to pay public holiday pricing plus a surcharge lol?

    • *confusing

      • According to them, not really. Apparently I'm the first person who ever questioned them.

        • Usually because the type of people who go to such places don't really look at the bill all that closely.

        • Sucks they were running the same scam to everyone there that night.

          You would have to be paying very close attention to see that you are going to pay 2 fees and even then you would still assume the T&C was poorly worded and thus would only pay the 15%.

          Epicurean obviously doesn't care much about their reputation. They should add clarity to their T&C and refund your fees.

        • As if…. I’ve heard this so many times when it’s clearly not the case. Some people will be too embarrassed to say anything, but for sure someone else will have questioned this.

  • +1

    I had a Public holiday surcharge applied twice recently too (different restaurant)… they applied the 15% to each menu item, then again to the total bill. I emailed them as I didn’t notice til I got home, and got a refund of about $20

  • These T&Cs are getting out of hand…

    1. 0.85% surcharge applies for all credit card transactions. <<< Applicable

    2. A 10% surcharge applies on Sundays. <<< Not applicable

    3. A 15% surcharge applies on all Public Holidays (one surcharge fee of 15% if Public Holiday falls on a Sunday). <<< Applicable

    4. An additional service fee of 10% applies to bookings of 10 people or more. <<< Not applicable

    So, I'd think it should be: (Bill Total x (1 + 15%)) x (1 + 0.85%)

    It's annoying this kind of calculation need to be avoided for a meal.

  • +1

    Daylight robbery

    • +1

      Well, night time, since it was dinner.

  • +1

    Most places add a surcharge only for the days ending in Y

  • Was the food good?

    How many oysters did you eat?

    Epicurean = fond of or adapted to luxury or indulgence in sensual pleasures; having luxurious tastes or habits, especially in eating and drinking

    • Was the food good?

      Some people reckons it's good, I think I've seen someone on social they went back for the third or forth time.

      How many oysters did you eat?

      Only 2. Those things were minuscule $20/dozen Sydney rock oysters.

      • would you go back?

        Sounds pretty poor value and yes Sydney rock oysters are usually pretty small and crap. Nothing compared to Tasmanian oysters fat and juicy!

        What other seafood are there?

        Any sushi that had seafood or sashimi?

        Lobster? Crab?

        • would you go back?

          Nope.

          Putting things into perspective, Harvest Buffet at The Star is only a fraction cheaper, so maybe Crown isn't exactly price gouging.
          https://www.star.com.au/sydney/eat-and-drink/casual-dining/h…

          • @mini2: have you been to Okami?

            • @Poor Ass: Nope.

            • @Poor Ass: I have, it's not great

              But in terms of the pricing, the OP was only charged Sunday before public holiday ($155) plus 10% surcharge plus credit card surcharge.

              Its normal for these buffet restaurants to have different prices on different days. Typically, on friday/saturday and public holidays, there is more seafood. You typically get crab and/or oysters in the menu that is not available on weekdays, particularly for a dinner setting.

              If you note, the breakfast fees are the same every day, because they serve the same things every single day

              • @argamond: I think Okami will depend on the store

                If ya in Canberra star buffet was really good when I went couple years ago not sure now

                Yes I know the buffets

                • @Poor Ass: Star Buffet - that’s a blast from the past. Last time I went to one…was like 20 years ago?

                  • @mini2: I went to the one in Canberra in 2019 it was decent and good value

                    That Chinese bbq meats were awesome. Especially the duck

      • $20/Dozen for oysters, man that is cheap for a restaurant.

  • can you name & shame the restaurant in case any other unsuspecting ozbargainers are planning on go there?

    • OP already said Epicurean at Crown Sydney

      • 👍 long thread, missed it.

  • +21

    I think it's bullshit. Normalising this in Australia is a bad idea, we'll effectively up like the US where taxes aren't listed in the price and you have to perform all kinds of mental math to work out what the true price is. The restaurant should be working out a single price that works with the week as a whole, and offering other discounts like weekday lunch specials to attract more customers on slow days. And instead of nickel and diming their regulars, maybe they should spend more on marketing to attract new customers. Next they will want us to be tipping the waiters. Why not itemise the cost of the air-conditioning or hand soap in the bathrooms on your bill too? Charge fat people for the cost of buying stronger chairs. They should start working out their gross profits at different times of day and charging us different prices depending on the hour. Charge us more when it rains because fewer people go out to eat which effectively raises the labour costs of making x amount of meals per hour. I could come up with sarcastic examples all day.

    • They got bought out by Blackstone, so that explains the American style of surcharges.

    • +2

      I've noticed post covid this year or end of last year that a lot of places that use the QR code at table ordering system in Melbourne are pushing tipping on their ordering and payment system.
      There are pre-selected or a default button highlighted with 5-10% tip and you have to tap "no tip" to deselect the default tip.
      This is also in addition to some of these other conditional dining surcharges for days, nights, sundays, PH etc.

      No one is coming up to the table unless its to deliver meals and drinks or clear the table from finished plates etc.
      So less service and interaction and they want more money for it. That kinda sums up all customer service related interactions in Australia though.

      • I don't mind the QR code ordering thing but one place had charged me a surcharge for using that QR code system. It's like 70 cents, can't you cover it or build it into the food and beverage pricing?

        • I don't mind the QR code ordering thing but one place had charged me a surcharge for using that QR code system. It's like 70 cents, can't you cover it or build it into the food and beverage pricing?

          It's a bit silly as well considering that they'd be more efficient, effectively removing the need for staff to take orders and payment.

          Perhaps at a smaller scale they mightn't be able to roster one less person, but perhaps reduce an individual shift time.

          If they aren't seeing that benefit then I'd be questioning the usefulness of these apps. As usual, I expect for them to double dip.

          • @Gnosh: I think the "usefulness" was more about being contactless for fear of covid germs making people feel more comfortable, but surely it does streamline the ordering process.
            Being charged for the use of it is a bit rough though! I don't think I was charged that fee at places I've used it but for sure paid a CC surcharge on top.

        • I'm totally on the same page as you. If they want to charge for using that, then I should pay less for not using a spoon or touching my glass of water. Or I brought my own napkins, I will pay $1 less.

    • Agree completely

  • +1

    Don't staff get paid double time and half or something for Sunday/public holidays etc?

    Didn't we all unanimously agree that companies should pay their staff appropriately so that we don't end up like the USA and rely on tips?

    This is the business doing just that, and charging people only when it's required and keeping the costs low the rest of the time but having the menu prices stay the same

    • +3

      Based on the fairwork website calculator, Sundays a worker would be paid an extra 20% (assuming a Label 2 casual restaurant worker - would be 25% if full time) so $34.16 per hour rather than $28.46 per hour.

      For a public holiday (not the day before - never seen a restaurant charge for a public holiday on the day before a public holiday) they would get double pay, so $56.93 per hour.

      I'm all for paying workers well so we don't have to tip but this restaurant has been intentionally hiding the actual price you pay, which is the entire reason I hate tipping in the first place. If they have a public holiday rate, why not just include the surcharge in that rate rather than tell you one price and charge another through some fine print?

    • +3

      Say there are 8 public holidays per year, out of maybe 360 regular business days per year if they close around xmas. So every 45 days there is a public holiday. So just raise the labour portion of the price of all menu items by 2%. So if your labour costs is about 30% of each menu item, then you just raise the price of everything by 0.6% and bam you have your extra public holiday costs covered and the customer won't even notice a difference. Treat yourself and raise it by a full 1% if you want, it'll still be less annoying than how some of these greedy and short sighted restaurants are charging for things at the moment.

      • Stop it with your login and common sense, AustriaBargain!

  • +1

    Got no symapthy for restaurants that cry poor now. Wait for the next few rate rises, many will close

  • I think the wording of, "an additional service fee" instead of, "surcharge", makes it sound like it could stretched even more:
    ((base + 15% Public Holiday surcharge) + 10% additional service fee) + 0.85% for credit card transaction
    Which would be base + 27.57525%

    I understand they do the charge because, "more people spend more time at tables, so less turnover of tables".

    But even if you came and left at the same time as a 2-person table, you'd still be charge extra. And they'd never think to offer discounts if there are empty tables.

    I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people found out about these charges on the menu when they're sitting down with 9 other people or when they're going up to pay.

  • +4

    I think there's an issue with anyone willing to pay $170 for a buffet in the first place.

    • Fortunately/unfortunately, there's quite a few people.

    • may be… but i think they should be very clear about their pricing structure.

  • +2

    With such a laundry list of T&Cs, I'd avoid like the plague.
    And why would there be a public holiday surcharge the day before a public holiday…

  • I agree with you, that's double dipping.

    Imagine you were in a group of 10.

    That's 3 separate surcharges!

    • +1

      I don't understanf why they charge extra 10% for group of more than 10. It is a buffet with a fixed time limit. Are they charging upwards of 150 dollars to rearrange the tables?

      • +1

        Because they can. People are less price sensitive in a big group.

        My other gripe is sometimes restaurants will only give offer a set menu for a large group and then put a 10% surcharge also!

      • +1

        for the extra 10% the waiter or waitress better stand there next to the table ready to be commanded

  • +1

    Post the name of the restaurant so we can avoid

  • I can accept a 10% Sunday surcharge, and I can accept a 15% Public Holiday surcharge, but it seems a big loophole for them to charge Sunday night as if it were a public holiday but then not apply the flat Sunday/Public Holiday 15% rate.

    What is the justification behind charging the night before a public holiday as public holiday rates? Surcharges are for additional running costs for penalty rates I thought, but there shouldn't be any extra penalty rates the night before a public holiday, should there? I've never come across this before, is it common? Or do I just not eat out at fancy places enough to know about it.

    • +2

      ya i've never heard of surcharge before a public holiday either… some fancy shit there

      • I wonder if there are any legal issues with this pricing structure…

        • it's written on the menu but yes I can see people getting annoyed because it is very rare and actually need to use much brain power to work it out

          usually is 15% on public holiday and that would be it… none of this fancy extra shite

          unless you are eating with friends and don't want to look cheap. Probably best to ask what the total price for 1 adult is next time in these weird buffet situations.

        • The charges are legal, but I highly doubt it would stand up in court due to the confusing as hell way they've calculated/written up the charges.
          Of course that relies on someone taking this to court in the first place…

  • -1

    Sounds like you were charged the group 10% fee on top. But seriously 10% surcharge for groups of 10… at a buffet? How do they justify that one…

    • nah mate they were charged the public holiday rate + 15% a day before a public holiday surcharge

      so $155 x 1.15% = $178.25

      DINNER
      Monday - Thursday $128
      Friday - Saturday $155
      Sunday $135
      (Please note a 2 hour dining time applies for dinner Sunday – Thursday.)
      Public Holidays $155
      (Price also applies for dinner on the night before a public holiday.)
      Children aged 4 to 12 are half price.
      Children under 4 years old are complimentary.
      Please note a 0.85% surcharge applies for all credit card transactions. A 10% surcharge applies
      on Sundays. A 15% surcharge applies on all Public Holidays (one surcharge fee of 15% if Public Holiday
      falls on a Sunday). An additional service fee of 10% applies to bookings of 10 people or more.

      • No, I was charged $155 plus 10% per persone. Card fee wasn't charged, so I've saved myself 0.85%?

        • hahaha you are right…

          it's so messy public holiday or day before public holiday $155 (they've included the 15% already)

          • 10% on Sunday

          yeah real bargain you saved on 0.85% haha

          • @Poor Ass: That's my rationale for having a go at them why are you whacking on the 10% when you've already whacked the 15% on? They told me to disregard the usual Sunday price of $135 because it's $155 + 15% if it's the actual public holiday day! i.e. $178.25 if I ended up there on Labour Day.

      • +1

        I see now. Night before a public holiday so 15%, but it was a Sunday so extra 10% charged.
        Technically I guess it's correct, as it say one 15% surcharge if public holiday falls on the Sunday, but doesn't specify that for the night before a holiday.
        Greedy.

        • the place probably expect if ya there already you'll just pay what they say especially if you are in a group just too cbf to go somewhere else

      • $155 For a buffet dinner would have to be one of the most expensive in the world.

        Bacchanal Buffet LV one of the best out there is no where near this price.

        • +1

          mate everything in Australia is expensive compared to Vegas buffet

        • How much is Bacchanal Buffet LV?

          • @Homr: Around 60-70 for dinner weekends USD

  • +1

    They have no leg to stand on to charge 25% or 15%+10% if I'm understanding correctly.

    Based on their booking policy, surcharges could be applied as follows exclusively

    Groups of 9 people or less
    Sunday (Not a public holiday) - 10% surcharge
    Any night preceding a public holiday - 15% surcharge
    Any time of day on a public holiday - 15% surcharge
    Sunday on a public holiday - 15% surcharge (The booking policy specifically states "One surcharge fee of 15% if public holiday falls on a Sunday)

    Groups of 10 people or more
    Sunday (Not a public holiday) - 20% surcharge (ie. 10% sunday surcharge and 10% 10 person group service fee)
    Any night preceding a public holiday - 25% surcharge (ie. 15% public holiday surcharge and 10% 10 person group service fee)
    Any time of day on a public holiday - 25% surcharge (ie. 15% public holiday surcharge and 10% 10 person group service fee)
    Sunday on a public holiday - 25% surcharge (The booking policy specifically states "One surcharge fee of 15% if public holiday falls on a Sunday) (ie. 15% public holiday surcharge and 10% 10 person group service fee)

    So unless you are in a group of 10 or more, there's no way you should be charged a surcharge/service fee of any more than 15%

    • This is how interpreted it as well.

  • -4

    Best approach would have been more time raising it with the restaurant and less time posting about it here.

    • +1

      Posting on social media or forums is good with stuff like this. It shows the perspective of the public on the interpretations and if the business is doing dodgy and/or Illegal practices.

      It also acts as a tool of education aswell.

      Epicurean can go eff themselves if this is how they handle surcharges.

    • Dude, I've raised it with them and thought I should also ask the OzB fam how they would’ve interpreted the T&C’s.

  • You were a party of 4. You get charged 15%. That extra 10% is not part of their policy, based on their wording.

    Lodge an ACCC case on them regarding their policy. Seems dodgy AF, prob borderline Illegal as well.

  • My read of the menu is as follows. Perhaps they mistakenly explained it as being 10% plus 15%, but what they actually meant was 10% on top of more expensive food?

    Food/head (Public Holiday price) $145
    Heads 4
    Sub-total $580
    Surcharge (10 heads) N/A
    Surcharge (Sunday) 10%
    Total $638

  • Hospitality sucks and sucks more these days.

    Ridiculously long queues and management doing nothing to remedy this,
    Unjustifiable credit card surcharges,
    The rule of no split bill.
    Entitled waiters and waitresses, acting like they are rocket scientists.
    Ordering through a qr code. Might as well order a food delivery then?

    • I've found many places have actually been not too bad with split billing these days, as in one bill but they're happy enough to let you work out out amongst yourselves and process multiple payments.

  • OP, I can see why you are confused, the menu you linked seems to contain confusing conditions that seem to conflict.

  • Enough already it's time to name and shame

    • +1

      The OP said it was Epicurean I believe.

  • That is such BS! Honestly they should just up all their prices by 20% no matter what day of the week. Keep it simple. I honestly wouldn’t go eat somewhere with such a complicated surcharge policy. I also hate surcharges. I like to know what I’m paying upfront. Dining out these days is the worst.

  • Guess op knows where he won't be eating anymore.

    • +1

      Guess OP also knows where I'd say approximately 43% of Ozbargainers won't be eating anymore as well

  • These public holiday fees are becoming a rip off. Got fish and chips from a van and they were charging 20% public holiday fee. I was fine with 5 or maybe even 10 and that stretching it, but 20% is becoming so much more common.

    • Wouldn't surprise me if the surcharge is less about increase wage costs and more about charging more because they can, because people like to relax and eat out on holidays so they will still be slammed during lunch and dinner rushes no matter what they charge.

  • The price you paid (170.50 before credit card surcharge) is technically correct. However, I believe this is still dodgy as they already provide different prices for different days and then want to surcharge on top of that based on the date. They should put all of that into a single price on the menu.

    • Perhaps they "justify" it as: (i) higher food charges due to demand and having to keep inventory; and (ii) added surcharges due to higher wages for staff.

  • Welcome to semi-communism…..

  • Sunday $135 (Please note a 2 hour dining time applies for dinner Sunday – Thursday.)

    Public Holidays $155 (Price also applies for dinner on the night before a public holiday.)

    Children aged 4 to 12 are half price. Children under 4 years old are complimentary.

    Please note a 0.85% surcharge applies for all credit card transactions. A 10% surcharge applies on Sundays. A 15% surcharge applies on all Public Holidays (one surcharge fee of 15% if Public Holiday falls on a Sunday). An additional service fee of 10% applies to bookings of 10 people or more.

    Link to menu

    Very dodgy, but yeah that seems accurate. There's no need to put the surcharge at the bottom if it's already built into the prices. So $155 for the night before a public holiday + 10%. If it was a Sunday public holiday it would be $155 + 15%, not $155 + 10% + 15%. My suggestion is to not go to places like this, because that's ridiculous.

    If they're going to price gouge they should be upfront and either list it all as a surcharge prominently on the menu or all as the price, not a mixture of both.

    The real bargain is that you can get children under 4 for free, it doesn’t matter how many % surcharges they add, free is free. Just keep in mind they're expensive to raise.

    • The real bargain is that you can get children under 4 for free, it doesn’t matter how many % surcharges they add, free is free. Just keep in mind they're expensive to raise.

      Let's be honest, how much can a child under 4 eat anyway? It's a token gesture at best because they've cost recovered that elsewhere.

      • It was a joke about getting children, rather than children getting food. Adoption normally costs tens of thousands of dollars.

  • I am not defending this restaurant at all but it's a little ironic that we stack discounts all the time and consider it normal but when a business stacks surcharges on us then it is considered dodgy.

    • +2

      Because it is dodgy in this instance? When there is a single straight forward surcharge people are aware of then sure, but in this case they're charging $20 more than a regular Sunday because it was the day before the PH and then adding another surcharge which slaps another $15.5 on top again.
      It's just like price jacking before a sale.

      Its sneaky as they'd have i'd expect a lot fewer customers if they saw a clearly displayed sign that said it would be $170.50 PP today vs some of the other days rates.
      You could go peak Friday or Saturday and pay less (without it being a PH). In a group of 4 that's another $62 because it was a Sunday before a PH, almost half the cost of a M-T regular price.
      Plus a card fee if they do apply that (they didn't to OP it seems).

      Monday - Thursday $128
      Friday - Saturday $155
      Sunday $135

      There are more rules about advertising pricing etc for businesses than OZB'ers trying their luck (which is all it is) with stacking discounts in the few cases that can be applied successfully.

    • This is a bad argument, a business can choose and knows when a discount can be stacked. A customer can be mislead into getting charged surcharges.

  • Name and shame so we don't end up there.
    So if 10 people paid individually there is no surcharge but if you paid together for 10 people you get a surcharge. Seems like they are punishing you for making their lives easier.

    Edit: Crown Sydney is not getting any of my money.

  • -2

    from the menu - https://www.crownsydney.com.au/getmedia/67de02ae-449c-4aed-8… -
    'Public Holidays $155 (Price also applies for dinner on the night before a public holiday.) …
    Please note a 0.85% surcharge applies for all credit card transactions. A 10% surcharge applies on Sundays'

    as I understand it was a Sunday night before a public holiday - I'd see that as $155 + 10% or $170.5 + 0.85% so around $171.95 if paid by credit card?

    OP was happy to fork out $135 per person for a meal in Jamie Packer's skinny dick (not even top floor from the pix - looks more like about 4th floor - https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/p/AF1QipOKXyedzebKBoL0mIMd… - totally worth paying for that view of the bridge … ? yeah nah from me - with tiny prawns - but balked at sunday/holiday surcharges bumping it up to $170 or so ?

    a quick glance at google map reviews, sort by lowest rating, told me I'm never gonna bother going there - https://goo.gl/maps/HzA2XmjUVTRNATTE8 - but hey hope the OP impressed themselves that they might have hopefully impressed their companion/s or object of their affect(at)ions - or at least learned something about conscious consumption - and y'know as always, the worst experiences make the best stories … ! y'all have a nice day now … !

    • ….but hey hope the OP impressed themselves…

      who hurt you? lol

      • 'who hurt you? lol'

        the list is long but nobody cares - I'm just a fruglista who enjoys favourite restaurant meals 2-3 times a week at Japanese restaurants and such for $20-30 per person, so when I see $135-170 per person I'm like yeah nah thanks anywaze - but if that's your thing - enjoy !

  • Sounds like a Crown operation, it's attached to the casino, another creative way of ripping off the punters, the house will always wins by fair means or foul;)

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