DDR5 RAM Incompatibility (How Is This Still a Thing?)

bweiss on 17/12/2022 - 18:12

So…
I bought 2x32GB of DDR5 Kingston FURY SO-DIMMs (from CPL) for a new Dell Latitude 5531 that I've got.
However, when I installed the RAM in the laptop, it wouldn't POST.. and diagnostics showed two amber then 5 white flashes, indicating RAM failure.

None of the other parties will accept responsibility for the incompatibility… apparently it's still a thing, and unless I had followed the exact supported products list from all the vendors they will not help.

With standards like JEDEC, and SPD compatibility EPROM on the RAM, and BIOS compatibility settings for the laptop, how is incompatibility still a thing?
Surely even if the RAM advertises support for faster speeds, the BIOS just limits it to the speed that the motherboard can handle.. and vice versa (if motherboard can go brrrh but SPD says RAM only goes blah then the motherboard would stay at the slow speed).

CPL have refused to accept any return
Kingston say that they can't go around the retailer in this situation.
Dell say "we support DDR5 RAM of 4800MHz.. and our stock 2x16GB RAM works, so not our problem, you should have bought the Dell branded RAM at $800"

Anyone got any idea how the RAM could actually be incompatible?
My thought is the Dell BIOS is getting the RAM advertised speeds (from SPD) and then just going for the fastest or something equally silly, which the Dell motherboard can't handle. Or is hardcoded to only look at a specific speed entry (like min 4800MT/s max 4800MT/s etc) and aborting when the RAM advertises min 4800MT/s max 5200MT/s etc.

And, any other ideas for what I can do with the RAM?
I don't have any other DDR5 SODIMM devices to actually test it in to try to sell it off (or use it elsewhere).

Computing

Comments

  • psyren89 on 17/12/2022 - 19:14
    +3

    Dell

    There's your problem.

    Have you tried updating the mobo firmware?

    • pharkurnell on 17/12/2022 - 20:45
      +2

      agree… tried upgrading ram on dell pc's at work manytimes to only fail… unless you buy the 1000000 ram from dell

    • bweiss on 18/12/2022 - 09:14

      Yeah, unfortunately it's already on the latest.
      I suspect if Dell (or whoever does the BIOS code for Dell) looked into it they'd probably see some bug in the handling of the SPD data and be able to make it all compatible. But I guess they probably don't have much interest in this..

      • peteru on 18/12/2022 - 18:54
        +2

        You are giving Dell too much credit. Both Dell and IBM (the old, old ThinkPads) have been known to have a white list of "approved" parts and reject anything else. It was to improve customer experience aka being able to fleece the customer.

        • bweiss on 19/12/2022 - 11:07

          I've definitely upgraded other Dell laptops with cheapest name brand RAM which matches spec's before. Maybe I've just gotten lucky before.
          Or Dell have messed up (either accidentally, or deliberately) with this Latitude 5531 (and possibly other newer laptops).

  • garetz on 17/12/2022 - 19:15
    +1

    Ram incompatibility has always been a thing, just because its less of an issue today doesn't mean its not a concern at all. All motherboard manufacturers still create a ram compatability list for each of their motherboards. You should check that list for that notebook before buying any ram. Any ram that is not listed may or may not work and they take no responsibility for it not working.

    An oem board is usually stripped down and isnt as robust as a retail board. Next time make 100% sure what you are buying is compatible for the board you are intending to use it for. Do not make assumptions based on your own internal feeling of it should be fine.

    Just doing abit of googling, and it looks like the limitation on that model is 4800MHz , Unbuffered, 1,1V

  • AustriaBargain on 17/12/2022 - 19:25
    +4

    Linus did a video on this and found it wasn't really an issue anymore except in freak niche cases. I guess your config is in the freak niche case list.

    • Pugkin on 20/12/2022 - 19:45

      the mistake started at buying dell, proprietary-er than noone else can

      • bweiss on 21/12/2022 - 08:03

        Umm… I'd say Apple are more of a lock-in.
        Lenovo, and HP are similar.
        I'd say MSI / Asus etc are 'more open'… but I didn't get a say in the laptop. It was procured for me by others.

        • Pugkin on 21/12/2022 - 09:40

          Apples not proprietary, it’s worse than that, they just lock you out of any upgrades unless you buy a whole new device

  • PensionerXXL on 17/12/2022 - 19:40
    +1

    pal ddr4 still had incompatibility around the time of ddr5 launch

    the fringe cases (when something IS on the QVL list) are things like the chip/mobo imc (silicone quality/lottery)
    on i believe intel 11th gen people were BINNING the motherboards (asus apex) to get both sticks of ram at whatever freq/timing

    also just because ram is good/rated at whatever speed - say 4000mhz ddr4 does not mean it will post at CL14, depending on all of the above you may need to loosen the timings to get a post

    not sure how laptop memory works but try running it at a lower freq or looser timings etc, may need to jack up the voltage in bios etc, but this is 100% a case of doing your own research before buying and sticking shit into a pc

    • bweiss on 17/12/2022 - 21:52

      You seem to be talking about overclocking.
      The's the primary reason that people bin CPUs / motherboards, so that they can push the operating frequency above the rated frequency.
      That is not what I was looking to do. I was happy running both the motherboard and the RAM at the base 4800MT/s that they are advertised at.

      4800MT/s and CL40 would have been fine for me.

      • PensionerXXL on 18/12/2022 - 11:05
        +2

        Xmp is Overclocking….

        • bweiss on 19/12/2022 - 10:59

          And if I'd selected to use the XM Profile then I'd not be surprised if it didn't work.
          But the motherboard should by default use the advertised settings that it's happy with (i.e. 4800MT/s@2400MHz, CL40…).

          So yes, use of XMP does generally imply 'overclocking'. That a RAM module supports XMP doesn't mean that the motherboard NEEDs to use it.
          Overclocking relates to the use of a speed higher than rated. I was not looking to overclock, nor did I attempt any form of overclocking.

  • Look Up on 17/12/2022 - 20:21
    +4

    Cut to the chase:

    1. You're not the first, try these steps first

    2. If the RAM still doesn't work, sell it at a loss and treat the loss as the "restocking fee"

    3. Keep buying new kits of RAM to eventually hit the jackpot

    4. Alternatively, buy from a retailer who actually tests and guarantees the RAM to work in the 5531 like here

    Bottom line, you've bought in to DDR5 whilst it's still immature. Knowledgable overclockers still have issues with DDR5 on full size ATX motherboards with much larger QVL lists and better BIOS support

    Wouldn't touch DDR5 until it hits 6400/CL32 at the current DDR4 3200/CL16 pricing as this will signal it is actually mature and you can mix and match without (much) risk

  • 7ekn00 on 17/12/2022 - 21:01
    +1

    Dell lockdown components so you have to buy from Dell, try official Dell RAM and I bet it works flawlessly ;)

    Newsflash: Most of the global Laptop / PC manufacturers do the same thing, been like that for 20+ years :/

    A simple RTFM would have told you which RAM modules were authorised BEFORE buying rando RAM …

  • jizmo on 17/12/2022 - 22:09
    -5

    https://dl.dell.com/content/manual22998011-latitude-5531-ser…

    Take the Laptop back it states here how to remove and replace and what RAM is supported it's their job to prove the Kingston ram is faulty.
    Doesn't state you can only use their RAM if they did they know that would be anti competitive.
    Look at the law suit against apple phones blocking updates for users replacing broken screens with generic that cost them kazillions.
    Tell them you want your money back for wasting your time if they fob you off because it's not their ram tell them you want that in writing and it's time to litigate.

  • avoidfullprice on 18/12/2022 - 09:04
    +1

    Hey OP.

    I agree - RAM should just work given it conforms to the timings and voltages standards! You’re not even complaining about not working at XMP profile - the laptop doesn’t POST!

    I think you are coping some trivialised replies here because of your lengthy post portraying yourself as an entitled IT-enthusiast. Happens to best of us.

    Hope you can resell your RAM.

  • RotundPolarBear on 18/12/2022 - 15:07
    +1

    CPL have a really bad reputation. I regret buying from them.

    With larger corps it's much easier to get a refund/replacement, but CPL will drag their feet and give you the runaround. It's a real pain.

    • bweiss on 18/12/2022 - 18:12

      Yeah, I've bought a number of things from them before, the West Melbourne store have always been a bit 'quirky' when I've gone in to pick things up.
      But I'll be avoiding them from now on. Just not worth it.

    • peteru on 18/12/2022 - 19:00

      CPL are worse than bad. It took more than quarter of a year to have a DOA HDD replaced. Mind you, SkyComp are taking just as long to replace faulty DDR4 modules, but these failed after 18 months. It seems that crappy warranty service is par for the course in the computer parts business.

      • Pugkin on 20/12/2022 - 19:47

        only good luck ive had with warranty is when auspost lost a umart parcel and when i managed to get the same problem twice in the same item, amazingly scorptec was willing to deal with that. JW was pretty slow for a faulty aio

  • Dalryk on 18/12/2022 - 19:15

    I had the same problem with DDR4 ram on a recent model Dell. It's just Dell.

    I called them up to try and find a list of compatible modules, and they told me they don't warrant any RAM that's not bought from Dell directly! I did have a good chat with a techie though who told me there's all sorts of internal timings that can muck things up. And he did give me a list of specific SODIMM model numbers that they use (which unfortunately I couldn't source locally)

    But then I did have some success with www.upgradeable.com.au (not affliated!). They even gave me a discount when I pointed out a pricing discrepancy on their website.

    • bweiss on 19/12/2022 - 11:04

      Ouch on the pricing from upgradeable though… almost as much as Dell ($299 per 32GB module, so $598 for 64GB.. a bit short of the $799 that Dell wanted.. but definitely higher than elsewhere)

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