Neighbour Refusing Access to The Boundary Wall

azero on 19/12/2022 - 10:03
Last edited 21/12/2022 - 12:33

Hi All,

The short version,

I live in a new estate in VIC and my garage wall is built on the boundary. I want to put covers on the weep holes to prevent mice from getting in.

There are 4 holes that I need to access from the neighbour's property. But he is refusing to let me in to do that. All I want him to do is to open the side gate for 2 minutes and let me come in 2m into his property to put the covers on the holes.

What are my next steps ?

EDIT 3:
So I figured that they have screwed in the gate post to my garage wall (called the guy who did the fence and confirmed). Texted neighbour nicely again and he does not want to cooperate at all. Called the council about the fence post.

They said although it is illegal they can't do anything and I have to call dispute settlement center and may or may not engage a lawyer.

Both the houses were built by porter davis and mine is on the zero lot line (or supposed to be) - so If I really want to dispute the garden edge, I have to get the boundary surveyed. But if it turned out they screwed up my build and it if is 1mm over, then I am screwed again.

Thank you all for the replies so far, I will wait for a bit to have a think before I do something really stupid, but looks like there is no easy "legal" way out.

EDIT 2:
So I contacted the council, their response was:

It is a civil matter between neoghbours and we can't intervene. They referred me to the dispute settlement center which referred me to legal aid which reffered me to a free legal service which referred me to a site where I can find lawyers that works for a fee.

Proper channels FTW!

Long version.
Until yesterday I thought I had a good relationship with my neighbour. We both built with the same builder and moved in only a few months apart. We used to text / talk and even helped him with a few stuff. I had some mice in my roof and I had a pest controller coming over the weekend. He asked me to cover all the weep holes with weepa covers from bunnings including the ones in the garage wall on the boundary.

Now, my garage wall is built on the boundary (so as his but on the other side - and pretty much all the houses in the estate). I sent a text on Sunday morning asking him if he could let me in for few mins to do that. As I did not get a reply, I knocked on the door in the afternoon and asked again and I was told no. (By I think his dad). They are chinese with not so good english so I thought may be it was just a misunderstanding. So I got one cover and showed him what I need to do and he still refused.

Homeowner was not in, so I gave him a call later hoping that he can explain what is going on. But he flat out refused to let me in. His reason is - "I don't have to give you any reason but I am not letting you in".

There has not been any issues between us except for when he put in a cctv that could see my living room. But he agreed to turn it away and we were fine after that. This was over an year ago.

I am ok to take the legal route if it has to be, but what are my options here ? Thank you.

EDIT:
Thank you for the replies so far. I will ask one more time, but I really think they are well past the point they deserve a nice neighbour. So far I have done these thinking that I'd be a good neighbour.

Spent $500 putting 2 big screening panels to cover my living from his cctv rather than complaining further.
$300 fence extension coz I did not want to see his bedrooms from my living. I did notice that they took away the news paper that were sticked to the windows after this
Did not complain when their landscaper built their garden edge ~50mm into my property
Did not complain when their unmaintained grass invades my front garden beds.

I also spent at least 20 mins trying to reason with people there including the owner and trying to see if I had done any wrong by them.

Home & Garden

Comments

    • thom on 20/12/2022 - 14:35

      Call up council and ask them about access.

      How is this a Council issue? Why would they intervene?

    • r3volt on 23/12/2022 - 11:13

      Built to boundary walls are meant to be constructed with consideration that no access is provided.

  • gromit on 20/12/2022 - 10:00
    +2

    I would try again politely. After that I would go thermo nuclear. council and legal options and would also be taking action on the encroachment of garden edge. If I was the neighbour even if I didn't like you or actively hated you I would still let you in to do such basic maintenance as it is in everyones best interests to keep rodents out. I would also be checking for easement access.

  • kaleidoscope on 20/12/2022 - 10:02
    +1

    They cannot deny access to shared wall/ fence. Ring up council and while you’re at it discuss issue with garden edge and if I were you, will make sure it gets removed or fixed at their expense. happy holidays 🙌

  • Fapprehend on 20/12/2022 - 10:18
    +3

    How good is your plastering skills?

    Rip the bottom sheets off, locate the weep holes, calk them and re plaster.

    poke holes into the caulk to retain the weeping nature

    • azero on 20/12/2022 - 10:25
      +2

      thank you !

      • mrvaluepack on 20/12/2022 - 14:07
        +1

        Most, if not all caulking products are not meant for negative pressure. It will come off in a heavy down pour.

  • drfuzzy on 20/12/2022 - 11:04
    +2

    I had the same problem. There is essentially nothing you can do.
    In my case I needed to build a 2 story boundary wall, paint and finish it on their side.
    I had to pay extra to build the wall from the inside out laying the bricks overhand, leaving the exposed finish on the neighbours side.
    Wait until they scream the wall is unfinished and they are looking at a dirty unfinished wall and that there is damage to their property.
    Then request access to come in and rectify the problems.

  • kiitos on 20/12/2022 - 11:13
    +1

    What did the owner say when you asked if you had done anything to offend them?

    • azero on 21/12/2022 - 12:21
      +2

      Said, It is a personal reason and I don't have to tell you - about 3 times

  • 2esc on 20/12/2022 - 11:14
    +3

    Mice will find a way in even if you put barriers up best solution is baiting and mouse traps that you can buy anywhere. We have next door neighbours that keep chickens and their feed attracts mice and having neighbouring farmland the mice and bush rats come from.

    When we first moved in we had cats and birds chasing bushrats on the exterior of the roof. Baits and traps are the solution but needs to be ongoing putting some barriers up wiÄş help but is not the solution.

  • serpserpserp on 20/12/2022 - 11:49
    +4

    Bikies

    • monkeyfood on 22/12/2022 - 22:22
      +1

      This will work, turn garage into clubhouse, bikkies will scare the mice off and the neighbour

      • Speckled Jim on 23/12/2022 - 09:58

        Bikkies attract mice in my experience*.

        *I am not a mouser

        • monkeyfood on 23/12/2022 - 13:22

          yeah need the 1% poisoned ones

  • thom on 20/12/2022 - 12:32
    +3

    I live in a new estate in VIC and my garage wall is built on the boundary.

    Have you (or your neighbours) had a land surveyor confirm where your boundary lines are or is this just an assumption? Even in new estates properties can be built in the wrong location that results in encroachments. The neighbour may have a different view of where the property lines are.

    There is so much poorly informed advice in this post that the OP could find themself in an expensive situation if they are not careful.

    1) You are not entitled to trespass on your neighbour's property. If your neighbours have CCTV cameras they likely value their privacy and would take issue with someone trespassing on their property.

    2) Your neighbour is entitled to deny access to their property. A boundary wall is often viewed as a fence. When building on a boundary it's important to remember that you may not have access from the neighbours side in the future unless they or a Court allows it.

    3) There is unlikely to be an easement on the title for access to the neighbours side of the wall. There is a legal process for this to occur and both parties need to agree. Why would the neighbours inconvenience themselves by this indefinitely?

    From my reading of OP's situation there are three separate issues, each worthy of their own thread and discussion.

    OP has mice in their roof.
    The pest control person they have hired should be able to put a barrier in place from within OP's boundary. As others have stated nice traps are inexpensive and the solution to the mice problem isn't to cover the weep holes.

    OP's relationship with their neighbour
    It's unclear from the post whether the relationship has soured but it's tempting to assume that it has. We could speculate that things drifted apart when the neighbour was accused of facing their cameras into OPs living room or when fence extensions were erected. However we're not told the full story and the OP may not be aware of the relationship drifting. It's definitely worth clearing the air, in a way that doesn't offend either party so that things don't get worse in the future.

    OP feels entitled to access their neighbours property
    There is a whole section of law dedicated to fences because ever since land owners created these divisions there have been issues. Just because a fence line is established between both parties it doesn't mean that either party can enter each other's land - that defeats the purpose of having a fence.

    Be careful taking legal advice from unqualified people on the internet. I'd encourage the OP to seek legal advice and settle the issues that exist with their neighbour.

    • jaylee88 on 21/12/2022 - 02:45
      +1

      Thank you for the summary. This is the only post here that makes sense.

      • gromit on 21/12/2022 - 15:39
        -1

        It may make sense to you but it has a LOT wrong. first point is correct as you are not entitled to trespass, other two are not. Easements are common in pretty much all new estates, it is definitely worth checking for it, my current property has an easement along the boundary fence (front to back) and my new build about to commence has the same. If a boundary wall is viewed as a fence like he claims then no the neighbour cannot deny you access to it, you would have to do the correct procedure though, in Vic you have to issue a fencing maintenance notice and wait the required period.

        • thom on 21/12/2022 - 17:12

          It may make sense to you but it has a LOT wrong.

          Which part about what I have said is wrong?

          1) The OP isn't entitled to trespass on the neighbours property.

          2) Your neighbour is entitled to deny you access to their property.

          3) There is unlikely to be an easement on the title for access to the neighbours side of the wall.

          The OP and their neighbour would both be aware of they had an easement. Easements exist for specific reasons they aren't just handed out whenever someone builds on a boundary.

          • gromit on 21/12/2022 - 18:10
            -3

            @thom: You have provided rather incomplete information and made it sound like them denying access is really the end of it beyond court. Easements on new estates often taken this into consideration as small blocks force builds on the boundary, simply making moronic statements like they would know if they had easement access are exactly that, moronic. I would not have the faintest idea what easement access exists on my neighbours properties as I don't have block plans for them and no easements don't usually require some common agreement, they are built into the title to avoid this sort of crap in the first place. e.g. in QLD where I am more familiar with the rules they have statutory easements for this type of thing.

            Secondly the fencing laws have provisions in them for neighbours that won't verbally agree to that access, it is a relatively straightforward process of fencing notice, they can if they want to try to challenge that notice and force it to court but then they would absolutely have to provide justification for not allowing it and if you aren't asking them to pay anything they have a snowballs chance in hell of stopping it.

            • thom on 21/12/2022 - 19:00
              +2

              @gromit:

              You have provided rather incomplete information and made it sound like them denying access is really the end of it beyond court.

              Read what I wrote in my original post:

              2) Your neighbour is entitled to deny access to their property. A boundary wall is often viewed as a fence. When building on a boundary it's important to remember that you may not have access from the neighbours side in the future unless they or a Court allows it.

              The OP can get access by either:
              - a court issued order
              - permission from their neighbour

              From the OP's comments it is a fair assumption that their neighbour has made it clear that they do not want them on their property. If OP chooses to disobey this as many posts have stated, their neighbour may take civil action against them.

              ..simply making moronic statements like they would know if they had easement access are exactly that, moronic.

              If someone purchases land they would be aware it contains any easements as part of the title search. A solicitor or conveyancer would inform them so they are aware of what they are purchasing.

              .. no easements don't usually require some common agreement..

              Do you even know what an easement is? It's a legal agreement between both land owners. They are recorded against the title because they follow the title through transfer of ownership. If there isn't a common agreement that an easement should be established then the party that wants one need to argue the case via the court.

              Secondly the fencing laws have provisions in them for neighbours that won't verbally agree to that access, it is a relatively straightforward process of fencing notice, they can if they want to try to challenge that notice and force it to court but then they would absolutely have to provide justification for not allowing it and if you aren't asking them to pay anything they have a snowballs chance in hell of stopping it.

              Do you understand what a fence is? It's a barrier and I highly doubt that the Fences Act has a loophole that freely allows a neighbour to gain access to your property on a whim. That doesn't make any sense.

              I mentioned the Fences Act because it is possible to have a fence or boundary wall repaired as part of that act. However the neighbour may still insist that this be done by a licensed professional.

    • Domingo on 21/12/2022 - 16:29
      -3

      Be careful taking legal pest control advice from unqualified people on the internet. I'd encourage the OP to seek legal pest control advice and settle the issues that exist with their neighbour.

      Are you suggesting that your detailed assessment of the pest problem is better than the person who does pest control for a living?

      The pest control person they have hired should be able to put a barrier in place from within OP's boundary. As others have stated nice traps are inexpensive and the solution to the mice problem isn't to cover the weep holes.

      • thom on 21/12/2022 - 17:30
        +1

        Where have I stated that I've done a detailed assessment of OP's rodent problem?

        I've tried to simplify the situation because the OP seems fixated on getting access to the neighbour's property to install covers on some weep holes.

        OP's neighbour has made their stance perfectly clear that they won't be providing access and that they don't need to provide a reason why.

        If the OP doesn't want mice in their property they can put barriers or traps from within their property. It's quite straightforward logic.

  • Willy Beamish on 20/12/2022 - 13:30
    +8

    Sounds like your neighbours are absolute morons

  • mrvaluepack on 20/12/2022 - 13:57
    -6

    I think your perception of "had a good relationship with my neighbors" might be a bit different than your neighbors. lol

    For all we know they might think you are a total arsehole and don't want to help you.

    In saying that, you know what works best with the chinese? $$$
    Offer them some cash for access, and you'll see how their eyes light up. Maybe try $50 first as your starting point and go from there.

    • Maltopia on 20/12/2022 - 16:58
      -1

      This is racist crap. I am Chinese and would allow access without any bribe.

      • mrvaluepack on 20/12/2022 - 20:07
        -3

        You are just one person, ask the other 1.5 billion and they most probably want cash in hand.

  • salmon123 on 20/12/2022 - 14:55

    Demolish that wall … that'll show him and the council … "civil dispute" … bahaha

  • cunningdrew on 20/12/2022 - 15:07

    It's obvious. Use a drone.

  • Daddy Chill on 20/12/2022 - 15:15

    Access or excess

  • Logical on 20/12/2022 - 15:57
    +2

    Jump over at night and do it then. Use a ladder against the fence. Make sure to epoxy the things in as he may remove it once he notices it. Good luck. If you are in Brisbane then I will do it for you.

  • Seni0r El Cheapo on 20/12/2022 - 16:25
    +1

    Once a famous scholor named Bronn said, "There is no cure for being a *unt.".

    Hire bikies please.

  • meowsers on 20/12/2022 - 17:46

    Just fly a drone over his backyard for multiple hours a day.

  • polishka on 20/12/2022 - 17:59

    If one took a step ladder and bunny hopped it to the wall whilst on top, is that considered trespassing?

    • monkeyfood on 22/12/2022 - 22:24

      sounds like a job for spider man

  • Godric on 20/12/2022 - 18:09

    Bring KFC home and they will come to you

    • ntt on 21/12/2022 - 13:32

      too many questions here, who will come to him/her? Neighbours? Rats? I can't justify your statement.

    • WeHaveRicePudding on 21/12/2022 - 23:27

      Shut up and take my money!

  • Baghern on 20/12/2022 - 18:25

    Oh man I really want to hear the other side now, why does this feel like he omitted something like he fked the neighbours 18 year old kid

    • azero on 21/12/2022 - 01:52

      Lol no I really did not :) he is a single guy ~35. Initially lived with the mom but now there are a few more people there including tenents.

      He was probably upset about the camera which was more than 18 months ago or something else that I don't know. He won't say. Says it is a personal reason and he does not have to explain it to me.

      • Eeples on 22/12/2022 - 12:46
        -2

        He doesn’t.

  • jakka on 20/12/2022 - 21:43
    +3

    Could you ask them to install the covers? Sounds like a simple job, they may not want you on their property but may be okay to install them. Probably worth asking.

  • m0nkeycheese on 20/12/2022 - 23:05

    Write a fancy letter with some legal language, threaten to remove landscape wall thats on your land if they are not willing to help. Have one in english and one translated into Chinese.

  • TheJoker on 21/12/2022 - 00:16
    +1

    Just jump the fence in broad daylight, put the covers on, jump back over.

    Doesn't matter it's in camera. No one is charging you. At night looks guilty. Can plead ignorance of you want.

    Failing that, you might actually be loosely allowed to enter for this purpose. "you have gone onto the land to stop a nuisance". See "private nuisance".

    https://fls.org.au/law-handbook/houses-communities-and-the-r…

    • Cheap Gamer on 21/12/2022 - 13:05

      Agreed. I do this occasionally to nail loose palings because my useless neighbours won't.
      Dare them to call the cops! It's really no different to kids retrieving a football.

  • mirovich on 21/12/2022 - 08:23
    +2

    Sounds like your neighbour is doing something dodgy on their property and doesn’t want you to see it.

  • diceman99 on 21/12/2022 - 10:45
    +2

    Rip up his 5cm of garden and poison his grass

  • Drakesy on 21/12/2022 - 12:32

    Just put some traps down or bait them and be done with it?

    Yes you can cover holes all you like but the mice/rats will just find other ways into your roof cavity.

    It's like treating the symptom and not the cause.

  • UFO on 21/12/2022 - 12:38
    +7

    Jesus…. come on man.

    It's a 2min job. Go in when they aren't home in the middle of the day, put the covers on, and get out.

    So what if it's on CCTV?!? Let him go to the cops! Plead ignorance that you weren't allowed (don't admit that he's told you no entry), and that you are installing rodent protection and that's it.

    Trespass (as an offence) requires a number of elements. If the CCTV shows you've gone in, maintained the wall that belongs to you by preventing rodents on HIS property entering your property (legitimate purpose in protecting your property), and then promptly left (without causing damage or doing anything else that would affect the owner), then is it really in the "public interest" for police to proceed to prosecution?

    Even IF it goes to prosecution, your idiot neighbour will have to waste time going to court just to have the matter probably dismissed by the magistrate anyway because what you are doing is maintenance as a direct consequence of pests entering your property from his property. But no way the cops are running with the trespass in the first place. Once they see the CCTV where you've gone in and plugged holes in a wall YOU own, they'll laugh him out of the station.

    And IF he does want to be an ass, hit him up for the front garden line to be rectified. Reasonableness and fairness goes both ways. If he's going to be an inconsiderate neighbour, give him both barrels.

    • UFO on 21/12/2022 - 12:52
      +1

      Here's a copy pasta from online: "People can also be held responsible for a nuisance where they know, or ought to know, about a nuisance on their property but do nothing to remove or stop it."

      If he claims that's he's told you No Entry after you've told him the reasons for entry, maybe he might be liable for any damages a rodent infestation causes if the point of entry is the garage weep holes- that you've asked to patch at your cost but he's refused.

      There's plenty of angles you can take here. But it all comes down to him not being reasonable. Yes it's his land, but he still has responsibilities. Maybe you need to remind him of them. Get a pest inspection if you need to!

    • monkeyfood on 23/12/2022 - 21:28

      the voice of reason

  • jj brisbane on 21/12/2022 - 12:57
    +4

    i had an issue with a retaining wall where some heavy machines had pushed the rocks out 1cm over the boundary in brisbane, the neighbour ended up taking me to Qcat about it and the issue was they wanted it fixed which i was happy to do but they refused access to their driveway (battle axe block) for someone to cut 1cm of stone over a 1m length. i ended up waiting for them to leave and did the job in 10 minutes, they came home and went nuts and called the police. The police came and basically laughed and left. problem solved!

  • initiateit on 21/12/2022 - 13:15
    +3

    Paint that wall bright pink and whatever other colors you can to make it dogshit unattractive.

    • HealthHazard on 21/12/2022 - 13:18

      I like this!

    • thom on 21/12/2022 - 16:11
      -2

      If the wall is on the boundary it is essentially a fence. Fences have shared ownership. The neighbours can paint their side of the fence whatever colour they want. The neighbour has made their stance clear - they don't want the OP accessing their property. How do you propose that the OP paints the wall without trespassing? If the OP wanted to retain access to both sides of the structure then they should setback from the boundary. If the neighbours dislike the look of the fence they can just plant screening vegetation to obscure the view of it.

      • mauricem on 22/12/2022 - 10:55

        stand on the roof and use a roller on a long pole?

        "How do you propose that the OP paints the wall without trespassing?"

  • 91rs on 21/12/2022 - 18:15
    +2

    "I will ask one more time, but I really think they are well past the point they deserve a nice neighbour. So far I have done these thinking that I'd be a good neighbour.

    Spent $500 putting 2 big screening panels to cover my living from his cctv rather than complaining further.
    $300 fence extension coz I did not want to see his bedrooms from my living. I did notice that they took away the news paper that were sticked to the windows after this
    Did not complain when their landscaper built their garden edge ~50mm into my property
    Did not complain when their unmaintained grass invades my front garden beds.

    I also spent at least 20 mins trying to reason with people there including the owner and trying to see if I had done any wrong by them."

    It doesn't sound like you're a "nice neighbour", it sounds like the argument of "I'm a nice guy" with women and that you're owed something from things you've done that have nothing to do with him.

    You admitted he moved the camera as far one direction as possible, so he did something. You chose to spend money and put up screening.
    You didn't want to see his bedroom so you put in more fencing, not his issue. Its just an unfortunate side of living in the burbs where some properties have unintentional views or due to the terrain houses are higher or lower. Move on.
    If you're so adamant about 50mm, get it re-surveyed but you're turning in to the crazy one over things even you aren't 100% about.
    Now you're complaining about grass.

    I feel this story has more than your side to it and they're just as fed up with you, you're probably not the "good neighbour" you believe you are.
    You need to move on, sound like you've not got much else going on to hyperfocus on this so much.
    If you've got mice then sort that out with pest people, if you can't access the weep vents then move on.

    • mrvaluepack on 21/12/2022 - 23:44

      Exactly that if those were the only things he did to consider himself to be a "nice neighbour". Lol

      Things I have done to be a nice neighbour:
      - bought them chocolates for xmas
      - baked some cakes for them
      - fixed their gutters
      - help take in their bins from kerbside

  • Dack Smith on 21/12/2022 - 19:16
    -2

    It’s hammer time!

    People need to learn to play nice, you get to teach them that fact.

    Do it anyway, not sure how they intend to stop you?

  • Wasabi Ninja on 21/12/2022 - 20:42
    +2

    If you block the weep holes, old mate will just unblock them for a laugh. Find more productive things to worry about.

  • T3J on 21/12/2022 - 22:04

    It's posts like this that remind me for all the downsides of living in the country, having my closest neighbors 250m+ away (and still feels too close) is worth gold. Feel sorry for people in this kind of situation.

  • matt-ozb on 21/12/2022 - 22:50

    Must be very very small mice to get into weep holes that are about 4mm wide.

    • IM-Cheap on 23/12/2022 - 07:06

      Mice are magic and weepholes can be 10mm. Google mice and weep holes.

    • UFO on 23/12/2022 - 22:19

      Dude… mice most definitely can get into weep holes 100%. They can contort their bodies like you wouldn't believe. There's some google videos on just how bloody agile they are. A weep hole is absolutely no issue for them, trust me.

  • bmerigan on 21/12/2022 - 23:03
    +1

    Did you consider asking them to put the covers on instead? Seems a simple solution.

  • intra on 22/12/2022 - 03:06

    Abseil the wall from your garage roof, if you not stepping on their land you are not trespassing.

    • thom on 22/12/2022 - 08:25

      As soon as you cross a boundary line you are on that person's land. It doesn't matter if you are suspended in the air - they still own that airspace and would consider you to be trespassing.

      Many posts are encouraging the OP to break the law and plead ignorance. Being unaware of a law doesn't entitle you to be free from the consequences. A reasonable person would be aware that OP's neighbour does not want the OP entering their property. It appears that they have made that perfectly clear on multiple occasions.

      The OP's posts claim that they are the good neighbour. However they read as though they are entitled and inconsiderate of what their neighbours may want. The neighbour likely views the situation very differently and it could be that the OP is in the wrong.

      I'd strongly encourage the OP to break bread with their neighbour over the holidays and try to understand things from they perspective. They would likely benefit from having an independent mediator who can help both parties understand each other.

      I'd strongly encourage the OP to seek their own legal advice before trespassing on their neighbours property or giving the neighbour cause for escalating the issues further. This could become very expensive.

      • intra on 22/12/2022 - 11:10

        Airspace is owned by Airservices Australia, just saying ) when you buy land - it’s land only, not air.

        Same with parks where they have “no drones” policy, if you launch drone elsewhere park owners can’t enforce you crossing the air as they only own land.

        • thom on 22/12/2022 - 11:48

          Actually there is legal precedence that you own the airspace up to a reasonable limit.

          I'm unsure of the exact limit but I've read case law of people trespassing into the airspace above someone's property (from the eaves). It makes sense that at a certain height the Air Travel legislation would come into play.

          Depending on planning legislation it may be reasonable for you to build up to 3 stories or 12m, so it's reasonable to expect that you retain your rights to that airspace and can evict someone who trespasses within this space.

          Drones and air travel is a different topic. Again it would depend on the height of the flight path for what area of law applies.

          • intra on 22/12/2022 - 15:36

            @thom: Cool! I didn’t know about that and learned a new thing today, thanks!

  • bluegumflat on 22/12/2022 - 08:05

    Foolsgold is right.

    Threaten to hire a surveyor; the neighbour must allow them in to do their job of surveying the boundary. They might be in there for an hour of more so you could argue it would be much easier for the neighbour to let you in for 5 minutes. Or…. You could do the survey and ask the surveyor stick something in the holes while they are there. They may refuse (I would refuse as it isn’t covered under the right to access and surveyors are frustratingly professional).

    Or… I have heard of people using fencing laws to access neighbour’s property to maintain boundary retaining walls. These rules will vary state by state, most will have legal forms you can serve on a neighbour, but it may be down to common law for a building wall. Hire a good property lawyer for advice on your exact situation (Torrens title or community title?). It is in your interest in the long term.

    • thom on 22/12/2022 - 09:16
      +1

      The neighbour doesn't have to grant access to whatever trades the OP hires to undertake works. The neighbour's stance would be that they could do their job from within the OP's boundary. If the OP wants a court order granting access they would need to justify why this couldn't be done any other way that doesn't inconvenience the neighbour.

      Even if a licensed surveyor was granted access, I highly doubt that they would put their career at risk by doing something other than what they've been permitted.

      As discussed in other posts, the OP could argue to a court that they need to restrict access from the neighbours side via the weep holes, but the neighbour would argue they could have barriers from within their property.

      As others have also stated, there is a lot more to this story than we are being told and OP would benefit from hearing the neighbours point of view (which would involve being open to criticism). If they are unable to resolve the conflict via a mediation session then seek legal advice. A good lawyer would encourage you to resolve the conflict and not escalate these issues unless it is necessary.

      • bluegumflat on 22/12/2022 - 09:30
        +2

        Hey thom, Licensed surveyors have rights of access onto private property. States vary on how this is enacted - some require specific forms and notices. But if the survey is a boundary survey, the land owner can not refuse and police may be called to force entry.

        If you are surveying a wall on a boundary you would want to be on the unoccupied side (the neighbours side) of the wall to survey it. It may be possible to survey it remotely using a laser if there is line of sight to the wall from a public street. That would be up the the surveyor depending on the specifics of the location.

        • bluegumflat on 22/12/2022 - 09:35

          Oh, and I agree with the attempts to reduce conflict. Ask nicely - say you dont want to get a surveyor involved and just want to be in there for 5 min to mouse proof weep holes (yes, they can be big enough for mice). But also dont be afraid to use any forms (fencing act style notifications if appropriate) or lawyer letters. They are direct and formal but can help bring a party to the table to 'break bread' as other put so well. Never break the law - for so many reasons.

        • thom on 22/12/2022 - 11:08
          +1

          In certain circumstances police, emergency services and utility services have the right to enter your property without your consent.

          Land owners can prohibit entry via a simple sign that states "do not enter" or whatever wording is reasonable to convey the message.

          An example of an easement is the water authority accessing to monitor the meter each quarter. They may also need access to do repairs.

          Police have powers to enter without a warrant to stop a disturbance of the peace. Under the Health and Wellbeing act a Council-appointed health officer can enter a private residence if a nuisance is deemed a risk to public health or offensive.

          Licensed surveyors do have a right to access land without the owner's consent. However this is only when completion of the survey is dependant on that access. Most properties would have visibility of a boundary from either side of the fence.

          Police would need a court order to force entry to a property. I doubt they would do this just to make a task easier for a land surveyor when a neighbour is refusing access. I also doubt a land surveyor would go down this route when it's possible to get line of sight from another survey point.

          • bluegumflat on 22/12/2022 - 11:53

            @thom: I dont know why you would need a court order. It is a legal right stated clearly in legislation. Police escort the surveyor on if necessary.

            There would be many suburbs where you cant see the the wall on a boundary from the street. It depends where the wall is, where the fencing is. How vegetated the area is. etc. You would need to survey the bottom of the wall and you need to do it accurately. You need to look for overhang, capping, guttering, footings, check for steps in the wall, lean. You could do it from the subject property - but not always. As I said, up to the surveyor and site dependent.

            To get back to the Q. Good legal advice is gold. You dont need to enacting any court action but knowing where you stand is a great way to start and helps amiable negotiations. A lawyers letter would be the next step. Pester them politely. The aim is to make it easier for them to let you in for 5 minutes than to stonewall you. But never break the law.

            Oh, and yes, Council are useless in these situations unless they have a Council funded independent mediation facility.

        • azero on 22/12/2022 - 11:21

          Hey bluegumflat, thanks. What if the surveyor found that my builder has screwed up and there is a boundary encroachment ? am I required to give a copy to the neighbour ?

          • bluegumflat on 22/12/2022 - 12:15
            +1

            @azero: So, this depends. Normally, no, the survey report is yours and you can supply it to the neighbour or not. Some states (SA for eg) require the survey in some circumstances to be lodged at the Land Titles Office and it is then available for purchase. Your local Registered surveyor can advise on this. They may even know of some common law in your state around your specific situation of maintaining a boundary occupation (more likely they will direct you to a property lawyer).

            As I stated, a good surveyor wont fill the holes for you. thom is right in that they are only allowed on private land in order to perform necessary tasks to report on the boundary. I only suggested it as a way to coerce the neighbour into realising it is easier for them to let you in for 5 minutes than to not let you in.

            Always keep in mind you have to live next to these people. Possibly for a long time. You have to weigh the pros and cons of any action you take.

            I just checked and in SA, building walls and retaining walls are not covered under the Fences Act - I believe they are covered under S140 of the PDI Act. Apologies if this has been covered in the thread.
            https://www.legislation.sa.gov.au/__legislation/lz/c/a/plann…
            The Regs have a standard notification for for accessing the adjoining land. Schedule 10B
            https://www.legislation.sa.gov.au/__legislation/lz/c/r/planning%20development%20and%20infrastructure%20(general)%20regulations%202017/current/2017.24.auth.pdf
            I am confident Vic would have something similar. A lawyer could advise you on how best to go about this in your specific circumstances. Dont be afraid of sending forms/notifications. They should grease the wheels - it actually protects all parties. Court orders are another thing - hope it doesnt come to that.

      • azero on 22/12/2022 - 11:08

        I did ask him at least 3 times about what did I do wrong. Even asked if it was related to the cctv. All he said was "It is my personal issue and I don't have to tell you".

        I do understand that they might see if differently. But I have been very polite and even apologetic when I talked about the camera.
        They might have thought that I was passive aggressive since I put the screening. When I knocked on the door it was his father who answered but he talked very aggressively (or that he had a very strong accent).

        I think that someone advised him that they don't have to let me in legally and they followed that advised. There were 4 people there and at least 2 of them wanted to let me in but they kept arguing amongst themselves. Hell one even tried to open the gate for me.

        But from my point of view, I have 2 young daughters and the camera is literally 3m from my large living window. How we noticed it was when one of them said, "Mom there's a googly eye looking at me!".

        So yeah at least in my mind, I was being nice for the last 2 years :) but not anymore.

        Anyway I figured that they have actually screwed that gate into my garage wall - which is downright illegal. I would have let it go usually, but not anymore. But depending on how I feel after the holidays I'd see what to do.

        • thom on 22/12/2022 - 13:16
          +2

          Try to put yourself into the shoes of your neighbour.

          It's likely that they don't want to have to explain what you have done wrong especially if you are likely to argue with them rather than listen to why it is an issue for them.

          Your neighbour has a right to privacy and they likely don't want to create a precedent for allowing you access for something that can be solved from within your property.

          As others have stated be very careful not to escalate the issues and threaten your neighbour. A legal battle can become very expensive, very stressful and very time consuming.

          Your comment that accusing your neighbour of doing something illegal isn't going to help your situation. Do you have the facts that support this or are you just making assumptions again?

          If I was in your situation I'd break bread with your neighbour. Apologise for inconveniencing them the other day when they had guests. Apologise for whatever has gone on in the past and state that you would like to resolve whatever conflict exists so that you can both have a better relationship going forward. It's really important that you don't interrupt your neighbour when they are sharing their opinion and do not dispute what they are saying. They are doing you a favour by explaining to you their opinion. They will also offer you the opportunity to explain things from your perspective.

          It's the holiday period so I would focus on mending the relationship if you want to have a good relationship with your neighbours going forward.

          • azero on 22/12/2022 - 13:36
            -1

            @thom: Thanks, but I have seen the screws and verified with the guy who installed the gate that he drilled into my wall (same guy who did my fence as well).

            Those aren't visitors - they are family/extended has been there for a while.

            To give a better perspective, All I said was -> Hi how are you, would you mind opening the gate for a bit so I can put these covers on my wall and the response -> For you No and then walked away.

            I do understand what you are trying to say, but for me the courtesy goes both ways. You can't expect to play by the rules when it is just convenient for you.

            • thom on 22/12/2022 - 22:05

              @azero: I'd be more concerned with the actions of the tradesperson who did your fence (and the neighbours gate). They shouldn't be drilling into a boundary wall. Gates should be hung on poles that are fixed into the ground. Drilling into a wall system could damage the waterproof membrane or cause other issues.

              If you want to resolve the conflict with your neighbour then you need to try to see things from their perspective.

          • MagicMushroom on 22/12/2022 - 18:18

            @thom:

            It's likely that they don't want to have to explain what you have done wrong especially if you are likely to argue with them

            You're assuming OP did something wrong. "Do you have the facts that support this or are you just making assumptions again?"
            If the neighbour thinks OP did something wrong they can or don't say anything, but OP doesn't need to shut the mouth and take their word for it.

            ikely don't want to create a precedent for allowing you access

            Another assumption and neighbour can simply can "for this time only".

            Apologise for inconveniencing them the other day when they had guests. Apologise for whatever has gone on in the past and state that you would like to resolve whatever conflict exists so that you can both have a better relationship going forward.

            This needs to happen both ways, otherwise, it's unfair and gives the neighbour the advantage in future conflicts. The neighbour has to apologise for things they did too as it has obviously caused a lot of trouble and $$$ to OP too. I doubt they can engage is a constructive conversation from the story so far tho.

            They are doing you a favour by explaining to you their opinion.

            If the neighbour wants to be in positive neighbourhood relationship and prevent escalation then its not a favour.

            They will also offer you the opportunity to explain things from your perspective.

            Sounds optimistic

            • thom on 22/12/2022 - 20:59

              @MagicMushroom:

              You're assuming OP did something wrong.

              From the neighbours perspective they have. I'm not saying either party is right or wrong - we don't have the facts. However apologising for upsetting someone is not admitting fault, it's a way to bring both parties to the table so that they can commence dialogue.

              If the neighbour thinks OP did something wrong they can or don't say anything, but OP doesn't need to shut the mouth and take their word for it.

              I mentioned that "It's really important that you don't interrupt your neighbour when they are sharing their opinion and do not dispute what they are saying." because OP hasn't been able to articulate why their neighbour is upset. It's important to give both sides an opportunity to air their grievances. I'm not saying that the OP can't dispute what the neighbour has said afterwards, only that interrupting them will result in an argument.

              I agree that the neighbour also has to give the same courtesy, however from what OP has told us:

              • OP complained to the neighbour about their surveillance cameras having visibility of OP's property.
              • The neighbour had the camera vision restricted so it couldn't view OP's property.
              • OP has fence extensions installed (it's unclear if this was with the neighbour's consent)
              • OP has requested access to the neighbour's property and the neighbour has refused.

              We don't have the full story of the interactions between the neighbour and the OP. The neighbour is entitled to deny the OP access to their property. I don't see any reason why the OP can't place mouse traps or barriers from within their own property.

              • azero on 22/12/2022 - 22:03

                @thom: To clarify, they were able to see both my living and alfresco, but only living now.
                The restriction on the view is just in software that anyone with access to the camera remove.
                But I did not want to take it further so I just put the panel and moved on. Assumed that spending 500 is the best option. Well…

                • thom on 23/12/2022 - 11:27
                  +1

                  @azero: You seemed determined to argue that your neighbour is the problem.

                  From their perspective, they likely think that you are the problem.

                  Try to step back from the details and look at the interactions between you both:

                  • YOU complained about something (surveillance cameras).
                  • They provided a solution.
                  • YOU weren't satisfied and put your own solution (fence extension) without speaking with them (that likely impacts them)
                  • YOU asked them for a favour (access to their property).
                  • They refused.
                  • YOU likely accused them of another problem (garden edging encroaching).
                  • YOU are about to complain to them about another problem (gate attaching to boundary wall).

                  It's up to you whether you want to try mending the relationship with your neighbour. You are the one living next to them.

                  Otherwise just sell your property and move elsewhere. You may be a lot happier living nextdoor to someone else.

                  • tonka on 25/12/2022 - 18:42

                    @thom: Yes this, quite possible the neighbor just has enough pride not to allow someone to pressure them into allowing access to their property. OP speaks of asking, but describes asking then immediately proceeding into nagging. Then lawyers, and paybacks over 5cm of garden edge and grass growing. And this all seems to be because his Chinese neighbors wouldn't do as they were told. If I was the neighbor with the benefit of reading all this insight, I wouldn't have him in my yard either.

  • drfuzzy on 22/12/2022 - 10:51
    +1

    It sounds like you have tried to be a good neighbour and have taken steps to address any issues that have come up in the past. It's understandable that you would want to take measures to prevent mice from entering your home, and it's frustrating that your neighbour is not willing to cooperate with this.

    There are a few options you could consider in this situation:

    Try negotiating with your neighbour one more time. It's possible that there was a misunderstanding or that they have concerns that you are not aware of. If you can have a calm and respectful conversation with your neighbour, it may be possible to find a solution that works for both of you.

    Contact your local council. They may be able to provide guidance on how to handle this situation, or they may be able to mediate a resolution between you and your neighbour.

    Consider seeking legal advice. A lawyer may be able to provide you with more information on your rights and options as a homeowner, and may be able to assist you in taking legal action if necessary.

    It's important to keep in mind that legal action can be costly and time-consuming, and it may not always be the best option. It may be worth trying other options before considering this route.

  • Roman Sandstorm on 22/12/2022 - 16:42
    -1

    In NSW work on adjoining fences is permitted "at any reasonable time". (https://legalanswers.sl.nsw.gov.au/neighbours-and-law/entry-…)

    (Possibly other states have similar fencing laws.)

    Honestly, just do it.

    It appears the neighbourly relationship is irrecoverable. They cannot assault you to remove you. True, they can call the police, who will at very worst simply ask you to leave. At best they may explain to your neighbour that they should: a) behave better, and b) you are permitted to be there working on the fence.

    • thom on 22/12/2022 - 17:34

      I'd strongly encourage the OP to seek legal advice before trespassing on the neighbours property.

      The OP has already been informed that they are not permitted to enter.

      The advice that you've provided to the OP is misleading and incorrect. Not knowing the law doesn't free someone from the consequences of breaking the law. The Fences Act doesn't provide both parties free access to each other's property.

      If the OP were to act on some of the misguided advice in this thread they could end up in an expensive legal battle with their neighbour. The worst thing isn't a slap on the wrist from the police when they are evicted from trespassing.. the neighbour could raise a civil case against them for damage to their property. The stress, high cost and time consumed from a lengthy legal battle could have a severe toll on OP's situation.

      • Roman Sandstorm on 22/12/2022 - 17:47
        +1

        In a particularly litigious world/country/state/city, and with a history of previous conflict (possibly escalating to threats of violence), multiple call-outs from the police, demonstrated ill-will and deliberate property damage…. possibly what you say might be - at a pinch - feasible. Possibly.

        But in our real (suburban, Australia) world… a five minute job, to fix a fence to prevent rodent infestation… It is inconceivable the police would have any desire to bring trespass charges.

        And as for civil action. Seriously??? What 'damages' has the neighbour suffered? Again, it is inconceivable that the neighbour would hire a lawyer, make a civil claim for damages for someone briefly entering their property to fix a fence (which, by the time it went to court - and I would be 99.9% sure it wouldn't) was months in the past anyway.

        Thom, I think you are 'catastrophising'. Looking at the very worst possible situation, and then extrapolating that to the OP's real world.

        Any authorities looking at this would view it as probably more justified and less harmful than a kid retrieving their football from a neighbour's yard.

        • thom on 22/12/2022 - 21:41

          The point of my post was to demonstrate that arguments between neighbours can escalate to legal battles and the expense to fight or defend those battles is high irrespective of who is 'in the right'.

          I'm not stating that the neighbour has suffered any damage - only that it could occur.

          I'm strongly advocating against trespassing on a person's property, without first seeking legal guidance. It may be an unpopular opinion but we live in crazy times where people are fast to anger.

          I've tried to provide guidance that can help the OP de-escalate the situation and move forward with their life.

  • john_conner on 22/12/2022 - 18:32

    Why don’t you just give him the stuff to patch the holes and ask him to do it for you if he doesn’t want you on his property?

    • Flozza27 on 24/12/2022 - 09:54

      This… they literally take 10 seconds each to install.

  • Bearlion on 22/12/2022 - 21:05

    Just jump over and do it, it's a drug lab anyway.

  • whyisave on 22/12/2022 - 21:50

    A Current Affair ?

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