Should Rents Be Capped?

Lhawkshead on 29/12/2022 - 11:33
Last edited 29/12/2022 - 15:58

I dont really understand finance, so there's probably some big brain banker who thinks different.

Why is my rent going up because my landlord's mortgage is going up?
I didn't take out a loan on a home I won't live in. I'm not getting more house, im not getting better services? they havn't improved the house in any tangible way.

I think if rents were capped based on objective features of a house like rooms, amenteties, idk water efficiency? like actual tangible definable things it would be good for people.

I get that might mean that investors can't afford their mortgages, but why are we basing housing on the reckless financial decisions of investors? if you can't afford that 2nd or 3rd property maybe you should just sell it? and not make tennants pay for what you can't afford.

The banks and landlords have had decades to tackle homelessness and they havn't. Maybe their way isnt actually good.

Maybe this would just have aweful consequences though. So apart from rampant greed what would go wrong with capping rents?

(EDIT) I really appreciate the perspectives and comparisons between attempts in other parts of the world as a way to explain things. Keep em coming.

Poll Options expired

89
Cap rents based on objective features of a property
601
Don't cap rents based on objective features of a property
11
Cap rents based on things like income amounts
13
Don't cap rents based on things like income amounts

Financial Rent

Comments

- - - - Extreme on 02/01/2023 - 12:07
        
        +1
        
        @Quantumcat: Another thing to consider too, is whilst interest rates went down, the entry costs went up.
        
        Which means, new investors had to pay more to buy a property, which in turn meant the interest they were paying, wasn’t really any less.
  - afah0447 on 31/12/2022 - 11:22
    
    +1
    
    You just proved @sheenies point that housing in this country is now only viewed via the prism of investment and return, not as shelter to keep people protected from the elements. Very few other countries in the world shared this skewed view of housing and have a property market as dysfunctional as Australia's, especially given our landmass and natural resources.
    - zonra on 31/12/2022 - 11:46
      
      +1
      
      Very few other countries in the world shared this skewed view of housing.
      
      I beg to differ. Can you please share how many countries in the world where there’s no concept of renting houses/rooms for money?
      Even in communist countries where everything is supposedly owned and shared by everyone, renting is still a huge thing. It’s basic economics.
      - CowFrogHorse on 01/01/2023 - 08:21
        
        @zonra: Australia was a lot more affordable before trying to become internationalised, over 30 years ago.
        
        Life was slower, not everything was a hyper competition where everyone was trying to make MORE and MORE…and this question merely shows one symptom of this stupid race.
    - Extreme on 31/12/2022 - 13:57
      
      +1
      
      It’s not my responsibility to house other people. Not to provide a roof over someone else’s head.
      
      I am however, happy to do so, at a cost. I take on all the risk of that person potentially damaging my asset as a result.
      
      If you don’t like it, that’s ok. You’re free to buy your own asset and do with it as you please.
      - sheebies on 31/12/2022 - 16:16
        
        -3
        
        @Extreme: There is risk with any investment. If you chose to invest in real estate then that’s your problem. Not the tenants. The tenants shouldn’t be forced to wear your costs because your investment isn’t paying off the way you wanted it to.
        
        Sometimes investments make money, sometimes they don’t. But with real estate you can just keep bumping up the price until it’s profitable for you.
        
        I get where you are coming from though, I’m all for some sort of middle ground, where landlords don’t have to take a massive loss and their investments are protected but where tenants don’t have to keep dealing with ridiculous increasing prices. I don’t know how that would work.
        
        Without renters your investment would be an empty house, making no profit and you would still have to cover all those costs. They deserve some level of stability.
        
        zonra on 31/12/2022 - 17:41
        
        +2
        
        @sheebies: No one’s forcing you to support the landlords’ business or investment though?
        You’re free to sort out your own accomodation any way you wish.
        
        I’m all for some sort of middle ground, where landlords don’t have to take a massive loss and their investments are protected but where tenants don’t have to keep dealing with ridiculous increasing prices.
        
        Do you also approach Mccas or Nandos and demand they meet you middle ground where they don’t make as much profit? Why are you laying claims on these properties as if you are entitled to them?
        Also, everything has gone up, not just rental. Are we supposed to pester the supermarkets, restaurants, barbers, coffee shops etc. to meet us in the middle ground too?
        
        sheebies on 31/12/2022 - 20:19
        
        -3
        
        @zonra: … what a lovely simplistic view.. if you don’t like it sort out your own accomodation or buy a house yourself.
        
        I’m sorry, I fail to see where I’ve laid any claim to anything, nor have I said I’m entitled to anything. I haven’t even said I’m a renter?
        
        McDonald’s isn’t a basic human right, housing is. Supermarkets are trying to meet consumers in the middle because they understand people need to eat. Small businesses are taking a loss on things because they can’t keep passing on those costs to their consumers.
        
        I understand and respect that prices have gone up, there are situations where rent of course has to increase. But by that logic, during the height of the pandemic rental prices should have dropped because prices went down.. and of course they didn’t.
        
        Your not entitled for your investment to make money. If you buy stock in a company and it fails to make money you don’t go to the CEOs and expect them to cover your losses. Apparently though it’s perfectly acceptable for a landlord to expect a tenant to cover their losses.
        
        In the end, I don’t think we’re going to agree on anything, I can certainly respect your points however I don’t see a point in continuing to debate it. :) have a lovely evening
        
        pogichinoy on 31/12/2022 - 23:59
        
        +1
        
        @sheebies: Shelter is a basic right, you can either buy, rent private or rent public.
        
        You’re not entitled to a particular property, or a price.
        
        HannahBanna on 01/01/2023 - 09:23
        
        @pogichinoy: You might want to double check that. Sheebies is right.
        
        Adequate Housing is a human right.
        
        “Adequate housing was recognized as part of the right to an adequate standard of living in article 25 of the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights and in article 11.1 of the 1966 International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights.”
        
        pogichinoy on 03/01/2023 - 02:05
        
        @HannahBanna: If that is the case, then why isn’t the world holding up this law? The answer is, it’s not.
        
        Adequate housing is available, the price one has to pay is separate.
        
        If Sheebies is correct, the why isn’t it a world wide emergency involving the entire world?
        
        Extreme on 01/01/2023 - 13:42
        
        @sheebies: Tenants aren’t “forced” to pay my costs.
        
        They aren’t even “forced” to pay whatever I decide to set rent at.
        
        They are “free” to choose to live in my properties or not. They are welcome to move out at any time. The relevant laws state this. Even if they have a fixed agreement, they can break it.
        
        No one is forcing a tenant to do anything.
        
        A tenant has a choice on where they decide to live. Be it, their own home, private rental, or government/private funded social housing.
      - CowFrogHorse on 01/01/2023 - 08:22
        
        -1
        
        @Extreme: Yeh but people without a home always ends up bad.
        
        THey might live across the road from you, or start shitting in the gutter near you.
        
        Just ask America how it goes when you dont care, thats partly why they have a massive homeless and gang problem.
        
        May4th on 01/01/2023 - 09:10
        
        +2
        
        @CowFrogHorse: they do, but it's not the responsibility of property owners to bear - that's the job of governments to allocate resources towards affordable housing when the economic forces does not lead to ideal social outcomes. do you turn up at a dairy farmer demanding free milk when your family is starving? if not why the gripe against landlords?
        
        CowFrogHorse on 02/01/2023 - 20:49
        
        @May4th:
        
        do you turn up at a dairy farmer demanding free milk when your family is starving? if not why the gripe against landlords?
        
        Where did i ask for anything to be given to me or anybody for free ?
        
        Next you claim someone said something do the honest thing and actually quote where they said what you claim - dont invent things.
        
        You completely dont understand what i have been explaining. Im not asking for any payout or gift of anything im simply saying the government has contributed or allows the current situation to be created and grow.
        
        The problem of housing has the same cause as the traffic and overcrowding in the big cities. Allowing international investors and more people from overseas does not help the vast majority of people in Australia.
        
        Very few people in Australia benefit from spending 3 - 4 hours in traffic or trains commuting because of the increase in cars and people.
        Allowing foreign investors etc to buy and all that only hurts everyone in the big cities.
        
        Please dont tell me a few benefit im talking about the vast majority of Australians. Having houses go up 5x or 10x over the past 20 hours has hurt far more people than it has helped.
        
        Bringing in more people to Australia only means more desparate people will accept lower wages and worse working conditions - just look at the gig economy. Thats toxic and terrible crap and will have a very bad outcome creating people who are overworked and unhealthy. Dont tell me they should get better jobs the problem is bad jobs like this shoudl not be allowed to begin with - ALL people no matter how uneducated they are should be protected from this. Low wages created criminals - just look at America or the rest of the world, nobody wins when you treat people like virtual slaves.
        
        Being kind and treating people with respect always helps everyone. America may have slaves doing the low jobs but they also pay a far more costly price in gun massacres and homeless people committing crime. because they are desperate.
        
        Extreme on 01/01/2023 - 13:39
        
        +1
        
        @CowFrogHorse: That’s not a landlords problem.
        
        That’s for a government to address.
        
        CowFrogHorse on 02/01/2023 - 20:52
        
        @Extreme: @Extreme
        
        When did i say it was a landlords problem ?
        
        I suggest you re-read what i said and ask yourelf again where i said anything remotelike its a landlord problem.
        
        I have said several times landlords are not tyour friend, they couldnt careless if you live or die. You fail to comprehend that everybody loses when there is unequality in society. It only takes a few poor people to get desperate and crime or disease will increase - and nobody wins.
        
        Goto america and see what happens when people are disposable and only the dollar matters, go for a walk at night…and tell me you want a country where kids are hungry or living in a car because society has your attitude.
        
        pogichinoy on 05/01/2023 - 12:51
        
        @CowFrogHorse: What you forget is that it is a zero sum game.
        
        There will always be inequality, because there will always be people who are incapable of making the right decisions, people who are not resilient, people who are unproductive, and people who will have bad luck.
        
        Quit looking for equity.
[Deactivated] on 30/12/2022 - 10:27

-4

Supply and Demand; and seigniorage
STOP immigration and your rent will go down
STOP negative gearing and your rent could be subsidised or maybe you could afford to buy a home
STOP tax free SMSF investments and your rent could be subsidised or maybe you could buy a home
STOP foreign ownership of Australian property and your rent would go down and maybe you could afford a home
However, my friend as a boomer myself, I say, "stop eating avo on toast". Some people will be angry at me but they don't see the banks, polies, foreign multinationals and Mirvac pulling my strings whilst I spend and consume and commercialise your inheritance and your nation.
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered…. I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies…. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."
http://www.themoneymasters.com/the-money-masters/famous-quot…
Whilst you my poor tenant cheer on the progressive social causes that fill my pockets and distract you from the schemes - someone has to pay for all the good deeds and profligrate selflessness … the day of the pillow awaits … but not for me because I surround myself with the very best i can afford and with people whose best interest is my profitable success - as a wage slave your suffering is incidental.
- ToyotaCrownHybrid on 30/12/2022 - 14:04
  
  +2
  
  Stopping negative gearing will mean 2 things, either people will stop getting IP's or they'll positively gear their house depending on supply/demand making it even more costly lol
  - [Deactivated] on 30/12/2022 - 16:03
    
    ikr it's awesome - I get you - poor people lol
    Immigration, seniorage, SMSF tax free investment properties, disproportionate assistance to high income earners through negative gearing and scaled income tax. Since I made 10x on my oil shares and about the same on my real estate (was 12X but the market …) with no tax until I sell - literally a 5% increase in my original capital investment translates to a 50% capital return - everything serves to assist me at this point - but "yeah 'I'm a 'victim'" because I scrimped a little.
    Nice to know Medicare, PBS pharmaceuticals and the home care package are there too. I worked in the public service - got my 20 year indexed pension and uni was free - To the good life I deserve it ;)
    I don't agree with this either but it worth a giggle
    Have the Boomers Pinched Their Children’s Futures? - with Lord David Willetts
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuXzvjBYW8A
MandMs13 on 30/12/2022 - 11:01

Why intefere in the free market of a democracy? This ain't China, Russia or North Korea.
- CowFrogHorse on 31/12/2022 - 21:10
  
  +1
  
  Firstly home investments are not a free market
  
  Theres no GST on home buying or selling.
  
  Capital gains is nothing more than poor people paying richer people to buy more houses.
  
  You have been really brainwashed - keep on believing everything is fair and free as told to you by the people who benefit from the current system.
  
  There is no such thing as a free market there are always regulations and non freemarket ideas.
  
  Take the family, kids living for free from their parents. is that capitalist ?
Shaddolf on 30/12/2022 - 11:34

+2

It's no different to a Cafe putting up their prices if the ingredients for the food become more expensive.
A rental is a business transaction. The price of providing the service goes up, the service fee (rent) goes up.
AG_ACT on 30/12/2022 - 11:35

+5

I don’t understand this whole thread, why isn’t housing like any other commodity?

If you don’t like the price supplier is charging; move?

Why should someone who has bought a house with their own money/their own risks, their own liabilities (financial and otherwise) give a stuff/be responsible for what a renter wants/should pay? You don’t tell a supermarket what they should charge you for a loaf of bread do you?

If a prime cut of meat is super expensive, don’t you just buy the cheaper one even though it may not be as nice or what you want?

There are acres and acres of land in Australia. Rural communities giving up old houses for next to nothing!
- May4th on 30/12/2022 - 13:00
  
  +5
  
  because entitlement, as if a nice house close to work and amenities, in the most expensive city in the world is a god given right
  - CowFrogHorse on 01/01/2023 - 21:41
    
    Do you really think the market is your friend and doing you favours ?
    
    Are you blind to the consequences that are wasting your life ?
    
    Traffic/commuting/overcrowding ?
    
    So some other business person can make money ?
    - May4th on 02/01/2023 - 12:07
      
      The market is what it is, it's neither your friend nor foe. You can either spend your entire life lamenting about whats fair or who's to blame for your woes or you can put your head down and work towards your goals.
      - CowFrogHorse on 02/01/2023 - 20:33
        
        @May4th:
        
        The market is what it is, it's neither your friend nor foe.
        
        Firstly the market is clearly not your friend - its certainly not doing you any favours. Nobody is giving away major discounts because they are your friend in fact hte opposite is true, everybody is trying to suck your blood.
        
        You can either spend your entire life lamenting about whats fair or who's to blame for your woes or you can put your head down and work towards your goals.
        
        Im not complaining im simply stating facts.
        
        Living in the rat race simply is a terrible race and has a terrible prize. Life is too short to pay the price that city living requires.
        
        Life in the country is far more peaceful and perhaps more importantly give you time to do the important things in life. While you are wasting your life looking at crap while in traffic or a train people in the country can enjoy clean air with family or friends.
    - pogichinoy on 02/01/2023 - 13:43
      
      You either play the game or wait for the rules to change.
      
      The rules do not favour those who have little wealth.
      - CowFrogHorse on 02/01/2023 - 20:34
        
        @pogichinoy: Dont want to play the game - the prize is crap.
        
        Why would you want to give away your most precious possesion time away to sit on trains or cars or lines just to suffer the same on the weekend.
        
        Did i mention its going to get even worse as time passes ?
        
        Life in the city is terrible compared to the country and the prize is crap.
        
        pogichinoy on 03/01/2023 - 02:10
        
        @CowFrogHorse: The prize is great, I enjoy where I live. I am 30 mins from a hiking trail, 15 mins from a beach (30 in traffic), 5 mins from high end shopping, etc I’m not losing any time.
        
        Not everyone is upset about the prize.
        
        I stayed in the Goulburn area for a weekend getaway. Practically everything shuts by 5pm. What’s there to do?
        
        The country has its pros tho. But there’s a reason why some country towns are struggling to keep their youth from leaving.
        
        CowFrogHorse on 03/01/2023 - 17:14
        
        -1
        
        @pogichinoy: Pog: The prize is great, I enjoy where I live. I am 30 mins from a hiking trail, 15 mins from a beach (30 in traffic),
        
        Cow: For example i goto the beach every day given your time and other commitments that means lets say country life is 5x better.
        
        Pog: 5 mins from high end shopping, etc I’m not losing any time.
        
        Cow: So you think buying crap from a shopping center is great ? A large amount of xmas crap i s tomorrows rubbish - but hey if tv tells you to buy crap from Kim K then it must be good right ?
        
        Pog: I stayed in the Goulburn area for a weekend getaway. Practically everything shuts by 5pm. What’s there to do?
        
        Cow: Theres lots - ride a bike, play a sport, walk along the beach or river or whatever.
        
        Just add up the numbers for how many times a country person can do stuff compared to yourself. The time cost of travel means you can do FAR FAR less of those because time is finite.
        
        How many hours do you spend commuting by car, train or horse if you want ? How much MORE could you do if you didnt have to pay this travel time tax ?
        
        pogichinoy on 04/01/2023 - 00:21
        
        @CowFrogHorse: There's no beach in Goulburn.
        
        The only thing there is to do there is hiking which we already did.
        
        You can do hiking in a capital city, plus much, much more.
        
        Even the restaurants there are quite terrible and limited in choice.
      - CowFrogHorse on 03/01/2023 - 17:17
        
        @pogichinoy: Pog: The rules do not favour those who have little wealth
        
        cow: I drive a 2022 mercedes benz and my house is probably better than yours - but that is not important they dont count.
        
        What counts is TIME… giving TIME away to sit in traffic of commuting or lining up is the most stupid thing anybody can do.
        
        pogichinoy on 05/01/2023 - 12:48
        
        @CowFrogHorse: Of course it doesn't. Doesn't mean it is impossible though.
        
        That's called equality.
        
        What you're looking for is equity which is a fallacy.
shangoz on 30/12/2022 - 11:44

They should ask Reserve Bank keep the rate down instead of every month up, also, ask all Bank don't increase interest rate, then more then likely rent will be caped or even down a little bit, no such things rent capped but interest rate continue rising, in Australia landlord rent charge already 40% lower compare Hong Kong etc.
RedDevil860 on 30/12/2022 - 11:52

Its not the landlords fault you cant buy your own house. Stop whinning.
- CowFrogHorse on 02/01/2023 - 10:54
  
  -2
  
  Hope you enjoy ALL the beaches in the big cities being full of people, and all the car spaces for mile sbeing full. Did i mention spending 2 - 4 hours and its going to get worse because of ALL the extra cars and people on trains etc ?
  - pogichinoy on 02/01/2023 - 13:45
    
    We also enjoy only taking 30 mins to get home from an international airport.
    
    Really sucks for those who live rural or in a smaller city and they have to transfer to another airport just to get home.
    - CowFrogHorse on 02/01/2023 - 20:27
      
      Most people only do international travel once or twice a year at most - So sure thats lets be genius a day or two lost in travels from the country. If you live in Sydney for example you are probably spending 2 - 3 hours a day commuting and the same on the weekend to go out to the shops or travel to the beach.
      
      Maybe its me, but 365 * 3 hours thats 1000 hours / 10 = 100d. is far more than 2 days lost travelling to the airport.
      
      100 days vs 2d a year - i know which tax i would prefer to pay.
      - pogichinoy on 03/01/2023 - 01:56
        
        @CowFrogHorse: Most amenities like the shops are available local. If you mean the context of high end stores that requires a CBD visit then yes.
        
        Not everyone 2-3 hours away go to the beach often. But that’s the price they pay for where they live.
        
        I drive 2 hrs to get to the blue mountains. Sometimes drive 4-6 hrs to escape the big smoke and explore the north or south coast.
        
        I lose many days too. Can’t have it all!
        
        CowFrogHorse on 03/01/2023 - 17:28
        
        -1
        
        @pogichinoy: pog: Most amenities like the shops are available local. If you mean the context of high end stores that requires a CBD visit then yes.
        
        cow: I dont base my life around going to the lousy shopping center, any more than i base it on going to the toilet. i feel sorry for people who think living means going to Kmart or any other place that sells crap they will throw away or forget by next week.
        
        pog: If you mean the context of high end stores that requires a CBD visit then yes.
        
        cow: dont care - commuting 2 - 4 hours a day every day for 50 years is not worth the ability to go have a cafe in the CBD and buy a new iphone. Buy online and give yourself 2 or 3 extra days of time for yourself.
        
        pog: I drive 2 hrs to get to the blue mountains. Sometimes drive 4-6 hrs to escape the big smoke and explore the north or south coast.
        
        cow: Yes and given most people have limited holidays - if its a weekend to travel to blue mountains (guessing from syd) you just wasted half your weekend. The cost is not only the travel - putting stuff in the car on the way also takes time from your weekend, and the same in return when you come back. A person in Blue M gets double the value for their hours on the same weekend.
        
        pogichinoy on 04/01/2023 - 00:38
        
        @CowFrogHorse: Mate, life is not based around shopping centres, but people need to go to these to purchase groceries, furniture, etc
        
        Again the majority do not commute 2-4 hours per day. Not everyone eats out at a cafe in the CBD every day. I'm sure there are some exceptions though as there are many foodies in capital cities.
        
        One big con of small cities and towns are the poor medical services. Many rural residents head to capital cities for surgery.
        
        Even in country towns, it can take 30-60 mins to get to the local shops, cafe, restaurants, etc Think of the commute! Plus again subpar food quality for an exorbitant price, akin to capital cities.
        
        LOL do you believe any travel is a waste? When you're ill, don't go to the hospital because the commute time is a waste.
        
        Living in a country town or small city highly requires you to own a car. You can get by without a car easily in a capital city. Imagine the savings you have made?!
        
        CowFrogHorse on 04/01/2023 - 21:04
        
        @pogichinoy: pog: Mate, life is not based around shopping centres, but people need to go to these to purchase groceries, furniture, etc
        
        cow: Im confused, you are the one that mentioned shopping centers multiple times including for "entertainment purposes".
        
        pog: Again the majority do not commute 2-4 hours per day.
        
        I googled "sydney commute time average"… and a few items tell me ….
        
        theconversation.com
        
        Sydneysiders have the longest commute times, an average of 71 minutes. This is followed by Melbourne, where on …
        
        nine.com
        
        Sydney was just behind on 46 minutes,
        
        https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/data-and-research/data-and-…
        
        The punctuality performance target is to have at least 92% of peak services arrive within five minutes for Sydney Trains services and six minutes for NSW TrainLink (Intercity) services. This is in line with interstate and international benchmarks.
        
        So my observation of 2 - 4 hours is actually matches exactly what these above mention. Not all trains for example go perfectly from the persons home to their target location - they need to change lines and all that. Therefore if you require 2 trains to get from A to B, that means 20 trips a week. Factor in 2 cancellations in that, theres another 1 hour lost at a minimum.
        
        pog: Even in country towns, it can take 30-60 mins to get to the local shops, cafe, restaurants, etc
        
        cow: Most people in the country do not live 1 hour from a town, most actually live in towns like Ulladulla. A trip to the shops is at most 5 - 10 minutes.
        
        pog: Think of the commute! Plus again subpar food quality for an exorbitant price, akin to capital cities.
        
        cow: Since a country house is 1/2 a city house, who cares about $20 here or there for a feed.
        
        pog: One big con of small cities and towns are the poor medical services. Many rural residents head to capital cities for surgery.
        
        cow: People dont get surgeries every second week. I said this before, in reply to your airport time travel for a country person. You are nit picking minor details and forgetting to the do the maths. 2 days for a trip to for surgery is far less than 10 - 20 hours EVERY week for traffic/lines/trains/etc.
        
        pog: LOL do you believe any travel is a waste? When you're ill, don't go to the hospital because the commute time is a waste.
        
        cow: Stop being stupid, i am clearly talking about typical examples.
        
        pog: Living in a country town or small city highly requires you to own a car. You can get by without a car easily in a capital city. Imagine the savings you have made?!
        
        cow: you have no idea it does not. I walk far more than i drive, my car odo for this year is less than my "measured" walking the dog. Maybe buy petrol once every 2ish months.
        
        You have no idea, you keep making stupid comments about driving for events that rarely happen. Be honest and measure what you actually do everyday …not things that happen once a year if that.
        
        pogichinoy on 05/01/2023 - 13:35
        
        @CowFrogHorse: cow: Im confused, you are the one that mentioned shopping centers multiple times including for "entertainment purposes".
        
        pog: Because there is more to life than commuting for work. People travel for other purposes.
        
        cow: So my observation of 2 - 4 hours is actually matches exactly what these above mention. Not all trains for example go perfectly from the persons home to their target location - they need to change lines and all that. Therefore if you require 2 trains to get from A to B, that means 20 trips a week. Factor in 2 cancellations in that, theres another 1 hour lost at a minimum.
        
        pog: These commute time figures are door to door, not how long the public transport trip is.
        
        cow: Most people in the country do not live 1 hour from a town, most actually live in towns like Ulladulla. A trip to the shops is at most 5 - 10 minutes.
        
        pog: LOL heck no. I stayed in a small town called Bungonia, which was circa 30 mins into town to Goulburn just to visit the supermarket. That 5-10 min figure is actually for us city slickers.
        
        cow: Since a country house is 1/2 a city house, who cares about $20 here or there for a feed.
        
        pog: Cheaper housing prices does not excuse poorer quality food. What a terrible conflation.
        
        cow: People dont get surgeries every second week. I said this before, in reply to your airport time travel for a country person. You are nit picking minor details and forgetting to the do the maths. 2 days for a trip to for surgery is far less than 10 - 20 hours EVERY week for traffic/lines/trains/etc.
        
        pog: What does the frequency got to do with it? You make it sound like all country people commute next to nothing for work.
        
        cow: Stop being stupid, i am clearly talking about typical examples.
        
        pog: All your claims are stupid. That's why others here, not just me, are calling you out on it.
        
        cow: you have no idea it does not. I walk far more than i drive, my car odo for this year is less than my "measured" walking the dog. Maybe buy petrol once every 2ish months.
        
        pog: That's you but not indicative of the average person in a rural town/city.
        
        cow: You have no idea, you keep making stupid comments about driving for events that rarely happen. Be honest and measure what you actually do everyday …not things that happen once a year if that.
        
        pog: As I've mentioned, there is a reason why youth and the skilled population are LEAVING rural towns/cities for the big smoke. They're willing to leave your precious time cost commute times for a better life. The difference is, I don't need to convince people that city life is better, whilst you are desperately doing so.
        
        Have a pleasant day.
        
        CowFrogHorse on 09/01/2023 - 18:00
        
        @pogichinoy: cow: Since a country house is 1/2 a city house, who cares about $20 here or there for a feed.
        
        pog: Cheaper housing prices does not excuse poorer quality food. What a terrible conflation.
        
        cow: This is bogus, for starters basically all the food for the city comes from the country. Not sure how you can honestly say a fish in Bega is less fresh and poorer quality than a fish in Parramatta.
        
        ~
        
        cow: People dont get surgeries every second week. I said this before, in reply to your airport time travel for a country person. You are nit picking minor details and forgetting to the do the maths. 2 days for a trip to for surgery is far less than 10 - 20 hours EVERY week for traffic/lines/trains/etc.
        
        pog: What does the frequency got to do with it? You make it sound like all country people commute next to nothing for work.
        
        cow: Frequency has everything to do with it - because my entire argument is about saving TIME as a WHOLE.
        
        Theres a big difference between paying for something once and paying for it every day.
        
        Cant you tell the difference between spending 2 days a year visiting a hospital vs spending 20 hours a week or 1000 hours a year commuting ?
        
        You dont comprehend the concept of total time spent instead you are trying to find any minor excuse to debunk me.
        
        ~
        
        pog: As I've mentioned, there is a reason why youth and the skilled population are LEAVING rural towns/cities for the big smoke.
        
        cow: Popularity doesnt mean a choice is good.
        
        There are so many examples where the masses make bad choices this is silly.
        
        ~~
        
        pog: They're willing to leave your precious time cost commute times for a better life. The difference is, I don't need to convince people that city life is better, whilst you are desperately doing so.
        
        cow: The worlds is full of fools.
        
        Let me tell you the story of someone on ozb who thinks that my arguments were absolute and i wouldnt visit a city in a life or death emergency or for medical treatment.
        
        pogichinoy on 09/01/2023 - 23:41
        
        @CowFrogHorse: cow: Since a country house is 1/2 a city house, who cares about $20 here or there for a feed.
        
        pog: Cheaper housing prices does not excuse poorer quality food. What a terrible conflation.
        
        cow: This is bogus, for starters basically all the food for the city comes from the country. Not sure how you can honestly say a fish in Bega is less fresh and poorer quality than a fish in Parramatta.
        
        pog: LOL just because the raw materials are from a source, doesn't mean its processed and cooked to a high standard. Are you dense? Isn't Bega inland? Parramatta is closer to the coast, where you know, the fish are readily available from.
        
        ~
        
        cow: People dont get surgeries every second week. I said this before, in reply to your airport time travel for a country person. You are nit picking minor details and forgetting to the do the maths. 2 days for a trip to for surgery is far less than 10 - 20 hours EVERY week for traffic/lines/trains/etc.
        
        pog: What does the frequency got to do with it? You make it sound like all country people commute next to nothing for work.
        
        cow: Frequency has everything to do with it - because my entire argument is about saving TIME as a WHOLE.
        
        cow: Theres a big difference between paying for something once and paying for it every day.
        
        Cant you tell the difference between spending 2 days a year visiting a hospital vs spending 20 hours a week or 1000 hours a year commuting ?
        
        You dont comprehend the concept of total time spent instead you are trying to find any minor excuse to debunk me.
        
        pog: You'll find that as people get older, they need regular visits to hospitals, specialists, etc and that's why the proximity to a hospital that can service their needs is very important when considering where the elderly lives in their twilight years.
        
        ~
        
        pog: As I've mentioned, there is a reason why youth and the skilled population are LEAVING rural towns/cities for the big smoke.
        
        cow: Popularity doesnt mean a choice is good.
        
        There are so many examples where the masses make bad choices this is silly.
        
        pog: Yes of course, but the statistics don't lie. People are moving out of the rural country towns to seek a career that does not restrict them in a rural country town.
        
        ~~
        
        pog: They're willing to leave your precious time cost commute times for a better life. The difference is, I don't need to convince people that city life is better, whilst you are desperately doing so.
        
        cow: The worlds is full of fools.
        
        Let me tell you the story of someone on ozb who thinks that my arguments were absolute and i wouldnt visit a city in a life or death emergency or for medical treatment.
        
        pog: That's fine. Enjoy your country life. We enjoy visiting once in a while to stimulate your economy.
        
        CowFrogHorse on 04/01/2023 - 21:06
        
        @pogichinoy: pog: LOL do you believe any travel is a waste?
        
        cow: i clearly did not say that stop being extremist and dishonest. I said COMMUTING/ TRAVEL EACH DAY is a waste.
        
        I was clearly stating that a person in the country gets more hours a day because they dont pay the commute/travel tax, those 2 - 4 hours saved each day can be devoted to better things.
        
        pog: When you're ill, don't go to the hospital because the commute time is a waste.
        
        cow: really - are you that stupid ?
        
        pogichinoy on 05/01/2023 - 12:52
        
        @CowFrogHorse:
        
        cow: really - are you that stupid ?
        
        Mate, I'm trying to reach your level.
        
        CowFrogHorse on 17/01/2023 - 20:01
        
        -2
        
        @pogichinoy: Its pathetic, you invent a complete lie that i wouldnt goto a hospital, something i have never said at all.
        
        Is your argument so poor. you have to invent stupid crap like that ?
        
        SO many of your replies are equivalent nonsense, like country food is worse than city, that makes no sense, given most of the cities food comes from the country. We all know almost nothing is grown in a big city like Sydney, you certainly wont find any bananas, cows, herbs or more.
        
        ALL I said was SAVE time commuting because its a waste, you couldnt even recommend that people work from home where possible instead you say commuting is just fine.
        
        Instead you invent crap like i would never visit a hospital because i refuse to travel. Yes i refuse to travel like an idiot 20 hours a week to work and be locked at home on the weekend, is very different from refusing to travel to a hospital.
        
        But hey enjoy 50 years sitting in traffic/trains/queues, while country people will be laughing at an empty beach in good clean air.
        
        pogichinoy on 18/01/2023 - 11:17
        
        @CowFrogHorse: LOL you still don't know the difference between food in its raw material form and food in its cooked form.
        
        Yeah we have it tough here in the city. I get all my online purchases delivered downstairs and signed by my concierge. I walk less than you.
        
        "country people will be laughing at an empty beach in good clean air."
        
        LOL yeah mate, all country people live near the coast. Stooge.
  - cadwalader on 02/01/2023 - 20:20
    
    Do you prefer to live in a capital city or a regional city/town?
    - CowFrogHorse on 02/01/2023 - 20:28
      
      Life in a small town is far far better - im not sure why that question would even need to be asked.
      - cadwalader on 02/01/2023 - 20:32
        
        @CowFrogHorse: Because many people do like living in a capital city, you cannot deny that unless you're only insisting on your preferences being the only one to exist.
        
        Since you prefer to life in a small town, what is holding you back from buying or building a cheap property in a small town? They're much cheaper than capital city properties and land.
        
        CowFrogHorse on 02/01/2023 - 20:39
        
        @cadwalader:
        
        Because many people do like living in a capital city, you cannot deny that unless you're only insisting on your preferences being the only one to exist.
        
        Im not forcing my opinions upon anyone, im simply sharing some undeniable observations about life in the city.
        
        Most people are in denial about city life, they think they are trapped into accepting their fate of how the big smoke operates and demands from her captives.
        
        Dont believe me, well just look at how many people try and get out of the big smoke on the holidays - ask them how much happier and more satisfied they are away and how much they feel they have lost when they return.
        
        Since you prefer to life in a small town, what is holding you back from buying or building a cheap property in a small town? They're much cheaper than capital city properties and land.
        
        Nothing - i never mentioned anything about my own personal investments - they are irrelevant.
        
        You seem to not comprehend that enjoying life is far more important. One day you will be old, and whether you have 1 or 2 or 50 houses will be irrelevant. Its far more valuable to spend the time you have with your kids and family than invest your energy primarily on investing in anything.
        
        cadwalader on 02/01/2023 - 23:54
        
        @CowFrogHorse:
        
        Nothing - i never mentioned anything about my own personal investments - they are irrelevant
        
        Then whats your point in this thread complaining about the real estate market?
        
        You seem to not comprehend that enjoying life is far more important.
        
        Why are you avoiding the cost on the most precious resource in your posession - your time that the city steals from you ?
        
        Nice of you to assume so many things about me.
        
        Where did it seem that I "not comprehend that enjoying life is far more important"?
        
        Where did it seem like "the city steals" time from me?
        
        CowFrogHorse on 03/01/2023 - 00:03
        
        -1
        
        @cadwalader:
        
        Then whats your point in this thread complaining about the real estate market?
        
        Last i checked Australia is a free country and im free to comment on any thread i like.
        
        Where did it seem like "the city steals" time from me?
        
        Most people in the city commute or are required to travel for work or buying groceries and those kinds of things. That means each day 2 - 3 hours are lost to these kinds of things…
        
        pogichinoy on 03/01/2023 - 01:58
        
        @CowFrogHorse: Again, no one commutes 2-3 hours total to buy groceries.
        
        Coles in Campbelltown is the same as Coles in Bondi.
        
        CowFrogHorse on 03/01/2023 - 17:32
        
        @pogichinoy: No you arent looking at this properly - you are blind to the ACTUAL costs of living in th ebig smoke that you cant see some simple facts.
        
        Coles in Camp or Bondi not only costs time to drive there, but it costs time because the car park is full. Because both are also fairly high pop that means your lines are also longer than Coles in the country.
        
        You just dont comprehendhow much of your time is lost because of city crap.
        
        pogichinoy on 04/01/2023 - 00:24
        
        @CowFrogHorse: I've been living in the big smoke for over 30 years, over 10 in the CBD. I know more than you.
        
        Like I said, no one commuts 2-3 hours total to buy groceries, everyone lives up to 30 mins from a Coles or Woolies.
        
        CowFrogHorse on 17/01/2023 - 20:06
        
        @pogichinoy: you havent counted the full time required to visit Coles.
        
        If you live in Campbelltown, the drive isnt the only time cost. Finding car space, waiting in the much longer line, walking in the much bigger mall etc. That does take more than 10 minutes it can take hours.
        
        Feel free to give how much time you spent last time you went to coles and did a big buy, time to leave your house, do everything in the shopping center, and come back.
        
        I get home delivery - costs me 2 minutes to take the stuff in.
        
        Like i said you didnt even grasp that you could order the stuff and have it home delivered and not even drive anywhere or line up or anything.
        
        pogichinoy on 18/01/2023 - 11:20
        
        @CowFrogHorse: Mate I have a concierge that signs for all my packages. Takes me 30 secs to go downstairs and pick it up.
        
        I do less effort than you while you're wasting your life away for an extra minute.
        
        You obviously have been living in lala land if you think shopping for groceries can take hours. What the heck are you buying?
        
        Keep grasping.
        
        cadwalader on 03/01/2023 - 02:04
        
        @CowFrogHorse:
        
        Last i checked Australia is a free country and im free to comment on any thread i like.
        
        I didn't say you couldn't comment. I asked what was your complaint point about the real estate market.
        
        Most people in the city commute or are required to travel for work or buying groceries and those kinds of things. That means each day 2 - 3 hours are lost to these kinds of things…
        
        Where did it seem like I lived in the city?
        
        Do you live in the city?
        
        CowFrogHorse on 03/01/2023 - 17:33
        
        @cadwalader: I used to live in the city now live in a small town.
        
        You just dont comprehend how much MORE time people can do in the country becaue they dont have their time wasted by BIG city crap like commuting, lines and all the other problems because of too many people.
        
        cadwalader on 03/01/2023 - 20:16
        
        @CowFrogHorse: I'll ask you again.
        
        What was your complaint point about the real estate market?
        
        and
        
        You just dont comprehend how much MORE time people can do in the country becaue they dont have their time wasted by BIG city crap like commuting, lines and all the other problems because of too many people.
        
        Where did it seem like I lived in a city?
        
        pogichinoy on 03/01/2023 - 02:00
        
        @CowFrogHorse: Many of us escape the big smoke on holiday periods because we want a change of scenery but don’t want to spend much and fly overseas. So a cheap way is to drive.
        
        As much as it is nice to visit a small town, most are boring as bat shit. We drive to visit natural beauty, not small towns.
        
        When returning, we enjoy the convenience, variety, quality, and costs of living in a capital city.
        
        CowFrogHorse on 03/01/2023 - 17:37
        
        -1
        
        @pogichinoy: pog: Many of us escape the big smoke on holiday periods because we want a change of scenery but don’t want to spend much and fly overseas. So a cheap way is to drive.
        
        cow: Im not discussing whether you drive or train or motorbike. My problem is ALL forms of travel cost time - and sitting in any vehicle is BORING and there are many better things to do with your precious time.
        
        pog: As much as it is nice to visit a small town, most are boring as bat shit. We drive to visit natural beauty, not small towns.
        
        cow: Plz stop nit picking i was using small town simply to refer to the country. I dont want to put footnotes and an encyclopaedia article listed all the possible benefits of a small town or country etc. Yes of course theres more nature - and thats just one example there are plenty more.
        
        But guess what - in the big city you get far les value for your life, you get far less nature - all you get is shitty cars, traffic, concrete and all that.
        
        Do the maths - why have a holiday a few times a year, when you can have one every day of the year ?
        
        Ughhh on 03/01/2023 - 17:47
        
        @CowFrogHorse: How much time has pog 'stole' from you?
        
        CowFrogHorse on 03/01/2023 - 18:36
        
        @Ughhh: Less than 5 mins, and after a long day in the great outdoors it hardly matters.
        
        So tell me are you happy to give 20hours a week, 1000 hours a year or 50k hours of your life to traffic and lines ?
        
        Ughhh on 03/01/2023 - 21:34
        
        @CowFrogHorse:
        
        So tell me are you happy to give 20hours a week, 1000 hours a year or 50k hours of your life to traffic and lines ?
        
        Tell me, does it make you feel good and smart to make assumptions on how many hours spent, and that everyone wants what you want?
        
        CowFrogHorse on 04/01/2023 - 20:39
        
        @Ughhh: @Ughhh
        
        So why not be gracious and share how many hours you spend ?
        
        Why do i even have to ask ?
        
        Ughhh on 05/01/2023 - 00:33
        
        @CowFrogHorse: You should focus on yourself and stop worrying or caring what others spend or value. While the travel time may be a con (though I like driving), the pros from other factors outweigh the cons. It's naive to assume your personal preferences is what everyone else wants.
        
        You've already wasted much of your precious resource on arguing with randoms.
        
        CowFrogHorse on 02/01/2023 - 20:40
        
        @cadwalader: Why are you avoiding the cost on the most precious resource in your posession - your time that the city steals from you ?
ttt888 on 30/12/2022 - 12:09

+1

What a nonsense post.

If the rental property is govt owned then by all means. Tax payers can pay for it.

Why don't the tenant cap his expenditure instead for example?

I don't even think ccp forced private landlords to cap rental.

Just crazy post when OP said why I should pay more because landlord pay more.
kaleidoscope on 30/12/2022 - 12:49

I didn't take out a loan on a home I won't live in. I'm not getting more house, im not getting better services? they havn't improved the house in any tangible way

Things can only get harder for you if you keep that perspective of how stuff works in the world you live in. Good luck
realaaa on 30/12/2022 - 13:02

+2

The banks and landlords have had decades to tackle homelessness and they havn't. Maybe their way isnt actually good.

well I guess you probably suspect that this was not really their mission :)
KangarooOz on 30/12/2022 - 13:48

-2

Fully agreed with the rent cap if the landlord expenses (interest rate, starta, water, council and insurance,etc) are also capped
Tiredman on 30/12/2022 - 14:15

Demand and supply. Don't like renting, go buy something. Income not enough? Work more jobs or work smarter. That's how the world is. People can complain till the cows come home but if you don't work for it, others will.
jrvb42 on 30/12/2022 - 14:29

+3

I don't like the fact that bread prices have increased 40% due to increasing input costs. Mortgage payments are an input cost of the person who creates your apartment/house. Nothing has changed with bread either, it's tastes the same. Should we create ceilings on prices of all essentials? Just let the market determine prices.
Granting public housing leases for a maximum of 3 years before returning to a waiting list would ensure everyone gets a fair go of this scarce resource, and might go some way to ensuring public housing tenants behave better, or at least limit the time others have to put up with them.
Kiro on 30/12/2022 - 15:02

+1

Don't cap rent.

What's the point in owning an investment property when you are not going to profit.
- CowFrogHorse on 02/01/2023 - 10:56
  
  Except you DONT make any profit, because the cost of all the other houses also went up.
  
  Did i mention all the other costs all these extra people make on your life ?
  
  Like everything being full, kids cant play scricket at school because they are all full. THey cant ride bikes on the roads or streets again because of the traffic. People waste 3 hours or more every day commuting….hospitals are full, lines are everywhere and growing
  
  guess what causes all that ?
  
  Morons thinking they are smart being greedy…
  - brendanm on 02/01/2023 - 16:27
    
    Except you DONT make any profit, because the cost of all the other houses also went up.
    
    Of course you do. Someone else is paying the mortgage, and the value also increases over time.
  - Kiro on 02/01/2023 - 23:09
    
    People will not be owning investments to only be a community service. If you don't make something of it. I.e profit or make money then no one will bother .
monky on 30/12/2022 - 17:13

Read Engels.
Dack Smith on 30/12/2022 - 18:37

-8

There should always be a legally mandated rent cap, this is not the United States where only money and wealth matters - this is Australia.

If people just want to create and live in an unequal and greedy society they can just leave and live in the U.S.

Rent cap and rent assistance should be mandated just like minimum wage and Medicare.

People downvote this comment are selfish and truly un-Australian
- jaimex2 on 30/12/2022 - 18:57
  
  +5
  
  Mate, Australia voted for the greed. All those elections that Labor lost in the past were because they were going to fix the "sell dirt to each other" system we have.
- cobknob on 31/12/2022 - 01:36
  
  Interesting ideas.
  
  Lot o Ozbarginers greedy - it is a site that promotes discounts.
  
  Even with Australian products made here that have a just price people still want it cheaper.
  
  Once humanity moves past greed innovation will grow faster than ever before - anyone who doubts this is just dumb
- [Deactivated] on 31/12/2022 - 02:31
  
  The irony is that the US does have rent control. If you want rent control, maybe you should go there, or one of the communist utopias you're imagining?
- Extreme on 31/12/2022 - 14:11
  
  Cap rent, then rent becomes cheaper then it costs to buy.
  
  People stop buying. Investors stop investing. Pushing up demand on existing rentals, whilst supply remains low. Resulting in people ending up homeless.
  
  Is homelessness what you want?
yah00 on 30/12/2022 - 18:49

This is what we call capitalism.
- Aneurism on 02/01/2023 - 01:30
  
  -2
  
  Communism exists for those who are against capitalism.
jaimex2 on 30/12/2022 - 18:54

+3

Nah, but people hording houses and running short stays should be de-incentivesed to get more stock into the rental market and lower prices.
FittyFitty on 30/12/2022 - 20:42

I don't know about rent, but I reckon the tradie (plumber, electrician…) callout fee should be covered by the standard hourly rate and the same capped at $75.
- cobknob on 31/12/2022 - 01:44
  
  Call out fees are dead unless you live like way out. Just don't service the area. Just make it 1hr charged and 75$ seems reasonable but we can't start capping everything lol
  - FittyFitty on 02/01/2023 - 09:14
    
    -1
    
    There should be some "maximum chargeable" hourly rate + expenses, not arbitrary "job quotes" per se; ie, the price to dig a 3 metre trench and replace a portion of a terracota pipe should be the hourly rate aggregate (x number of tradies) + cost of any equipment hire + cost of supplies, not a non-itemised $7,000 for a 6 hour job. Quoting real-life example here…
- brendanm on 02/01/2023 - 16:31
  
  +1
  
  Hahaha. If you don't like the price, get someone else to do it, or learn to do it yourself.
- Bargain4Days on 05/01/2023 - 11:32
  
  Lol, good luck getting a tradie in that doesn't charge a callout fee, theres a reason why they charge that in the first place.
Secret ID on 30/12/2022 - 21:52

https://youtu.be/gqFPhsO-2W0
- cobknob on 31/12/2022 - 01:48
  
  +2
  
  That's why I can't wait to see the bubble pop like some experts predict 20-40% and more the latter. And yes I have some family that has property with loan and yes some people that are low income will suffer too but the way I see it is that some sacrifices will happen regardless but let it all go POP. The market will then become more affordable again.
  
  Mainly wanna see rich people suffer to be honest. I'll probably get negged for this too lol am I a spiteful person - hell no. Got kicked out of rental cause owner wanted to sell. Even offered 60$ more on top of 2x price increases last 12x months, was there for 6yrs+ didn't even gime an opportunity to find another place, and yes the situation somewhat complicated but they had other rental just didnt want to offer for little less.

Should Rents Be Capped?

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