Selling on FB Marketplace and Buyer is insisting on making PayID payment. What could go wrong?

Selling my old graphics card on FB marketplace and after numerous low balling attempts (as expected), someone finally offered last night to buy it at my asking price + $10 for me to deliver it to him (2 suburbs over, 15 min drive). The only issue is he is asking to pay by PayID. Initially, I agreed but explained that I would need payment to be cleared first before delivering the card to him in the morning, which the buyer was happy with and said he would pay in the morning before I reach his house.

However, this morning, I had second thoughts and decided to do some quick googling and found that apparently PayID payments can be reversed if the request is made within 24 hours? I proceeded to tell the buyer this and insisted that payment be made by cash. For his trouble I was willing to deliver it free to him. Buyer said he would try to cash out but 15 minutes later messaged back and said that he couldn't for some reason. He asked me to reconsider PayID again and sounded really desperate. As a compromise, I suggested that maybe he could make payment now and I would deliver 24 hours later (i.e. tomorrow morning) which he agreed with.

The buyer has since made payment and I have received it in my account as cleared funds. I have also tried to transfer it to a different account with no issues. Is there anything that could go wrong if I deliver to the buyer's address 24 hours later as promised?

Thanks in advance for all insights.

UPDATE 28/01/2023: Card delivered. No signs of transaction being reversed so far.

Also as requested by Marty131, a poll:

Have you ever had a PayID payment that you have received, reversed?

Poll Options

  • 138
    No, never, and I receive PayID payments all the time!
  • 44
    No, but hardly ever receive PayID payments
  • 1
    Yes, but the funds had not cleared
  • 4
    Yes, even after the funds had cleared

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  • -2

    ask your bank?

  • +101

    I don't know how many times its been said but cash on pickup only.

    • +12

      Dont know why you got negged. But cash on pickup is actually the safest method for both parties. If im the buyer, i'll be pretty concerned if the item will ever be delivered to me given that the cash has been transferred over. And this is just two suburbs away, not like 200km drive.

      • +2

        Yes I agree. No way I would be sending money to anyone unless they were a reputable business or I have already gotten the item in my hands. The fact that the buyer was willing to do it made me wonder if he was too trusting of strangers or if this was some new scam method I wasn't aware of.

    • -1

      Of course people get robbed and killed in person, making exactly these kinds of trades, so it's not exactly the best method.

    • +11

      Hate it when people only wants to use cash. It's so stupid. With PayID you see the money in your bank and if you want you can withdraw it the same minute you receive it. It's absolutely no different than cash.

      Unless you are dumb as a brick, there is no way in hell you can get scammed with PayID

      • Can't they do a charge back?

        • +3


        • +1

          Yes they can do charge back/reversal.
          First time payment to someone new has 24 hours hold until the payment is cleared (especially with CommBank) and the sender can do the reversal.

          • @Secret ID: Is it a simple process? Or we talking proof of fraudulent activity / hacking?

      • Yep that's certainly my understanding! I'm buying a car today (probably) and dread the seller actually asking for cash. Even bank cheques are that easy to get with all the branch closures! Plus who wants to hold all that cash anyway

      • +4

        This is misleading, for larger transactions particularly to first time contacts, PayID transfers can take 24 hours to clear.

        I sold a phone for $800, the buyer did the PayID transfer on his CommBank app right in front of me. I didn't receive the money straight away. I nervously let him have the phone and hoped for the best.

        Spent the next 24h wondering if old mate had somehow presented me a fake CommBank app and scammed me. He could have used my first and last name from Facebook to prepare the fake payee name confirm screen.

        Luckily the money arrived at the exact same minute the next day and it was fine - but cash would have been safer.

        • +8

          Commonwealth bank has the 24 hr hold for new recipients for osko payments. Most others do not, or they implement other controls such as scheduling the payment after a delay if it is over a certain amount (Up bank). This is not a factor of PayID/Osko, but the implementation of the protocol that each bank has made. The solution is simple - if you're the seller, stipulate that the item will be transferred only once payment has cleared.

          • @moph: Interesting thanks for that didn't know it was CommBank to blame

          • @moph: When I bought a car, I did Westpac to Westpac Osko transfer >10k in front of the seller and it was instant.

            • @corvusman: Yes, that's my point. Each bank has implemented Osko payments slightly differently.

              • @moph: moph, is 100% correct each bank got to choose how they implement PayID/Osko and it can be hit and miss given some institutions choices if the funds will be delivered instantly on a first time payment.

                ING is an exception to that which I believe is the only bank that has a very low outbound transfer limit on PayID/Osko and restricted to $1000 a day sent that way.

                Not 100% accurate but mostly up-to-date list of each banks implementation can be found here

                • -2

                  @Kyle-K: Just transfer $1 first to see if it works instantly. Easy.

                  • +2

                    @G-rig: It's not actually that simple, since banks implement different controls depending on the size of the transaction, and they are not always fully transparent about what the thresholds for those controls are. So, you could transfer $1 immediately no problems, but when you try and make the full payment there's a delay.

                    • -2

                      @moph: It is, just try it or ask for cash

                      • +2

                        @G-rig: Writing '/Thread' at the end of your post doesn't change the fact that you've said something incorrect and then doubled down on it.

                        • -2

                          @moph: Mate it's worked every time I've tried it with various banks. It's more about the person using the payID function the first time, not about a new payment coming in.

                          Not worth worrying about all these hypotheticals.. a small amount is a good way to test if it's instant, then go ahead and transfer the rest.

                          You guys just love discussing everything for the sake of it, in practice there is nothing to really stress about.

                          Just go for cash then.. I mean there are only a couple of options.

                          PS. I'd love to know what the op was selling, probably a very small value item anyway.

                          • +2

                            @G-rig: You might think 'us guys' are being overly nitpicky, but here we have a post with 100s of comments where people don't understand how something as fundamental as bank transfers actually work. It's fine for you to take a casual approach for yourself, but don't further muddy the waters by providing incorrect advice.

                            • -2

                              @moph: Rightio.. just saying people should try it for themselves with their bank account and test it. Would be the end of the discussion. Done it hundreds of times and no worries. Osko is superfast now. Or just stick to cash.

                              • +1

                                @G-rig: Fair enough. That strategy will work most of the time, but depending on the bank and the amount, not 100% of the time. I am just saying you should include that caveat.

                                • @moph: Yes which is why you'd do $1 first - if that didn't turn up after a min or two tell them to go and get cash out. $0-20 you'd try it anyway..

                                  • +2

                                    @G-rig: You're still missing my point. It's possible that the $1 will go through immediately but larger payments will not.

                                    • @moph: Thats odd, what's the cut off?

                                      A mate just did it for someone who he hasn't before, first $1, then they transferred $2. Both worked but was getting the shits with it and the person just transferred $1500 without any issue.

                                      • +2

                                        @G-rig: Like I keep saying, it depends on the bank, and in most cases they are not 100% clear in their documentation, so people need to become familiar with how their bank works. I use Up which does this, although it has quite a high cutoff for delayed payments (I'm not sure what it is exactly, but greater than $2000), but others may have different settings. Each bank implements Osko/NPP differently, so you can't make blanket statements.

                                        • @moph: I'm sure people can try it and they'll find out straight away, or just ask your bank.

                • +1

                  @Kyle-K: Very useful resource, thanks

                  • +1

                    @moph: Thanks it's a great community resource managed currently by one guy not me. On behalf of OpenComparison. We're hoping to expand it into more usable of a resource hopefully this year.

                    • @Kyle-K: @Kyle-K
                      Sorry to dredge up an old one, and not sure if the Notion spreadsheet is still being updated, but I had an issue receiving an Osko payment from Westpac this week. When the sender checked with the bank they informed him that they are now enforcing a 24 hr delay on payments to new recipients. I did get the money after 24 hrs. I haven't been able to find anything announcing this on the Westpac website.

                      Pretty dodgy that they've changed that without publishing anything on their website, and a real bummer that PayID/Osko is further crippled as a reliable instant payments method. This is only going to lead to less people trusting and understanding how PayID actually works.

      • +1

        It's happened to me in the past. Couple wanted to payid when buying a car….amount was less than 10k. Wanted to do payid and was adamant it would work. Told them to transfer a few cents as a test.

        That those few cents took over 2 days to appear in my acc…CBA to WBC….

        So even if they don't scam you. There's a chance it's not instant.

    • +1

      Why not Pay ID / direct bank transfer via OSKO, then wait till it lands (which usually takes all of a few seconds)?

      • PayID and osko are assumed to be the same thing in my experience so yes

        • +1

          Not the same, payid is osko but osko may not necessarily be payid.

      • Read other comments; various banks will hold payment to new payees, CBA hold for 24 hours (exactly).

  • +31

    If your dropping it off to him, he can hand you cash, or no deal..

    The end.

    • +2

      I loath dealing with cash both as seller and buyer. Cash has zero utility to me on top of now needing to visit an ATM either to draw it out or deposit it.
      Do what you like but I've never had a problem with bank transfer which PayID is, after the failsafe of ensuring it has cleared. You cannot reverse a bank transfer after it has cleared. CBA do mandatory 24hr hold to new accounts but after that it's a done deal.

      • Yep unsure where ppl are getting an idea you can do a chargeback on a literal cash transfer. Think they're mincing up PayPal into the discussion.

    • COD, cash is king - still applies but not many people carry much around these days, no need.

      Either way is fine to be honest. PayID transfer when you meet them is fine - it's there within 30 seconds and you can transfer out of that account straight away if paranoid.

    • @pharkurnell

  • +5

    There are ways to reverse a payment to a payid or BSB/Acc# if the payment is still processing.

    In your case, as the fund is already in your account, the payment has cleared and cannot be reversed.

    • +4

      It can still be reversed if the payment itself was unauthorized. Eg came from a hacked account

      • +2

        OP already transferred out the funds though.

        What is there left to reverse? Negative balance owing ?

        It's funny how legit seller gets reversed whilst actual frauds got away, Banks : Ohh sorry we're unable to reverse the transaction as the responsibility is on you and that account has been emptied with zero funds to be recovered.

        • +2

          zero funds to be recovered because usually the money have gone overseas, converted to crypto, withdrawn in cash on a fake-ID account, etc.

          If the money is still sitting in an Australian based account.. its recoverable.

        • +3

          What is there left to reverse? Negative balance owing ?

          Yes, exactly this. You end up with an overdraft.

      • +5

        They cannot just get reversed willy nilly. The recepient account holder needs to approve for the fund to be reversed. Without written approval from them, very unlikely unless you are dealing with the same banks betwen payer and payee.

        • +2

          Not true. I had a deposit for 73c in my (mortgage) account.
          A year+ later it was reversed, I was charged for the "interest" earned on that for the year too.
          Apparently a person transferred it to me, made a mistake?

          • @furyou: Again, was that the same bank?

            You have the right to dispute this if it was worth the time.

            What could have happened as well was the bank was the one processing it incorrectly hence they could take it out. Happened to me once where I was credited salary twice, thought Finance at work messed up, but it was the bank that accidentally credited twice, they reversed within days with no notification to me at all.

            • @tajid: I don't know what bank it was from, the only detail was some random text I think just 3-4 letters, I thought it was one of my cashback or sth.

        • +5

          There is no approval required for a financial institution to reverse what they believe to be a fraudulent transaction.
          So if the money came from a hacked account or was an unauthorised transaction, they WILL reverse the transaction.
          If you have no money in your account, they can overdraw and/or take legal action to recover the funds.

  • +9

    I prefer PayID but i explain I need to wait for the funds to be cleared rather than be stuck at 'pending'

    • +5

      I always transfer $1 first and have the seller confirm. Hasnt let me down.

      • Yes, this method has worked out for me in the past. I will make a micro deposit of $0.01-$0.99 and have the seller confirm.

      • Have you done this before a large amount (e.g. for $800 you send $1 then $799)? Would the $799 transfer instantly this way?

        Previously had to wait 24h for $800 to clear

        • Correct, although I think highest amount I've tried is $500 but isn't connected to amount assuming it's below your daily maximum transfer.

          I did it originally as I had a situation when a buyer transferred me and we didn't see it for 30min for some reason and they were just hanging around until it cleared since it can't be cancelled easily after that while it's Pending.

          I'm with CBA and as I understand it not all banks do but they put a mandatory 24hr hold on outgoing transactions

          Also I've had people think they were setup for it when they weren't which also adds further delays, so even just to sanity check the transfer process is still worth it.

          And yes I'll just pay the rest minus the original test amount on the day in person. If I don't end up buying it I don't bother with asking for it back since it was only $1

  • +3

    How much are we talking about?

    Normally, I'd say that if it's in person, then cash only. But if you've actually received the money in your account and the account name matches the person you're dealing with, it should be fine. If you're still worried, get a picture of his ID and get him to sign a receipt saying that he's received the item. (If the names don't match, then it could be a stolen account).

    • +3

      It's $210 which is not a huge amount. The name in the transaction description also somewhat matches the buyer's name on Facebook (FB name looks like short form of his full name which appears in the transaction).

      I have always conducted all my buying and selling on FB in cash only so this is a first for me. It's the fact that payment is already cleared and I have been able to withdraw it that made me wonder what could go wrong.

      In relation to his ID, buyer also said he would not be home tomorrow when I deliver so his brother in law would receive it for him instead.

      • +2

        $210 isn't much and I would personally take the risk. But that's me and if shit hits the fan, I'm not going to lose sleep over it. Only you know what that money means to you.

        You can check how long the facebook account has been around for and might be able to see how many friends he has to get an idea of whether it's a legitimate account or one that's been recently created.

        In relation to his ID, buyer also said he would not be home tomorrow when I deliver so his brother in law would receive it for him instead.

        When is he going to be home? You can test him out by saying you'll only deliver when he's home. If he gives you certain times, etc and is happy for you to bring it at those times, then I guess you can deliver it to his BIL. But if he's hesitant and keeps insisting that he won't be home "any time", then I'd say that that's a red flag for sure. You can also ask for a copy of his ID that matches the bank account name (although, some people may not be willing to provide it).

        When you do deliver, just have a look to see if it could be an airbnb address as well. The state of the residence may not match those that one would expect from the occupants. Airbnbs tend to be very neat and tidy, etc

        What may appear to be a red flag may not necessarily mean anything - but be careful where there's a combination of multiple red flags.

        • Yes agreed $210 is not a large amount that I'm going to lose sleep over. However I would hate the idea of being scammed.

          Not sure how I can check how old a FB account is but he has over 900 friends.

          When is he going to be home? You can test him out by saying you'll only deliver when he's home. If he gives you certain times, etc and is happy for you to bring it at those times, then I guess you can deliver it to his BIL. But if he's hesitant and keeps insisting that he won't be home "any time", then I'd say that that's a red flag for sure.

          Thanks I will try this. Also just Googled the address and it appears to be a wedding photography business???

          • +5

            @xers: ur kidding, I'd lose weeks of sleep over $210.
            gods I spend hours on ozb just to save 50c.

  • +2

    If you have received the funds, you have no reason not to drop it off to him now correct? You also have his name and address if anything goes wrong.

    • +4

      That's the thing. I have heard about about many PayID scams but in all those stories, the common element was that payment was "pending" whereas in my case payment is already cleared which made me wonder what exactly could go wrong.

      • +5

        "PayID" scams are just regular scams that have nothing to do with PayID other than they mention the name.

        This guy actually paid you money and you've made them jump through so many hoops to receive the item.

  • +1

    Your bank may receive a fraud request and send it back even to put your balance to negative even if cleared and you took it out.

    I would be careful of sending funds back too. Does anyone know how op could lose?

    To op, cash only. Don't accept transfers next time. Likewise to buyer, they don't know you either.

    • +2

      Cash has plenty of risks too. Could be counterfeit. For large purchases, might be a setup to rob you.

      Just like you might do with cash (test marker, meeting in public) you can take precautions with PayID and it's relatively safe. Check buyers reputation on FB / gumtree. Check the name matches their profiles. Wait for money to clear. Deliver / pickup item face to face rather than posting. Can't go too wrong!

  • +1

    Seems suss, why would you need delivery for a graphics card only 15 mins away. If it was a huge bulky item that doesn’t fit in your car, then fair enough but this…?

    • +1

      Possible that the buyer doesn't have a car or is unable to drive, or thinks $10 is worth the convenience of not having to leave the house.

  • Please update how you go op. Maybe this will not be a scam?

  • +3

    If you are that concerned, just keep the card and let it rust - sometimes, you just have to believe that 99.99% of people out there are honest and do the right thing.

    • +4

      Some items are just magnets for scammers because it can be easily sold. Graphics cards IMO is in this category

      Fraudsters are always looking for ways to convert compromised accounts into cash. Buying easily convertible goods is a common way

    • Not exactly concerned as it's only $210 which is not a large amount. More so curious to know if this was some sort of new scam method that I wasn't aware of.

      • Make sure you note down the serial numbers of the card - can help police etc if it ends up being a scam.

        • +2

          the police won't do anything lol

  • does the name match who you're delivering to?

    • I think it matches about 87percent :)

      Nah but seriously his FB name appears to be a short form of his full name which appears in the transaction description.

  • +4

    Sounds legit tbh.

    I've used PayID to receive and also to pay for marketplace transactions without issues. The buyers always seemed genuine and their FB profiles didn't seem like fake ones used for scams.

  • I listed something on Gumtree once and it defaulted to accepting PayPal, so when they showed up they wanted to pay with PayPal. Which meant me paying the PayPal processing fee.

    • it defaulted to accepting PayPal

      Pretty sure you need to link your Paypal account in order to offer accepting Paypal for your listing.

      I just sold some stuffs few weeks ago and i don't remember opting out of accepting Paypal nor did it defaults to accepting Paypal for my listing.

      • I never linked PayPal. But I may have linked eBay in the past.

    • I've been scammed with PayPal, both as a seller and buyer. Never use PayPal. Except to pay a known retailer.

  • +5

    I'd be suss on this, especially since you're delivering it to him. The 'let me get back to you' and worse still 'please, I'm desperate' is a huge red flag for me.

    Tell him to go to an ATM get cash out or no sale.

  • -1

    Cash Only!

  • +2

    Payid is usually fine - the gotcha is when they are (typically) an CBA customer which delays first payments to a new customer (hours or a day). People have myths about paying $1 first and then the rest to speed things up - but that can trigger a payment hold too.

    It's a gotcha when you get a payid hold as the person paying in their mind has paid for the goods (money gone from account etc) but the seller has nothing - so obviously reluctant to hand over the goods. Hence I avoid it unless you have other factors to boost your confidence level - eg it isn't much, know where they live etc.

    Also potentially the held payment can be cancelled by the end user.

    • +3

      Annoys the hell out of me with CBA, all CBA osko payments are on hold for 24 hours or more to me (ing or ubank). I have a side business and ALL CBA customers first time payments are on hold, while other banks are instant. I had to battle with 2 customers saying CBA is at fault not my bank due to the security time holding CBA has in place. Annoying AF

      • Doesn't it depend on the transaction value? I've done lots of first-time instant payments but seems when they're >$500 they hold for 24-hours so the sender has a window to reverse/cancel.

        • +1

          Depends on the bank.

          ING Osko is 1k
          Don't know if Ubank has osko to transfer out but to transfer in, I transferred 5k from ING to Ubank and got it the next day in the morning.

          My products are not over $500, they are between $50 - $130, it's always CBA customers that are always on hold to me minimum 24 hours, even when I switched banks from ING to U Bank, it's always delayed and I usually get it the 2nd or 3rd day. No other banks delays payments but CBA in my experience.

          User aidenh37 commented below, just confirms CBA does withhold payments to new payees. It's just annoying cause sometimes clients will pay be the day before and I can't release the item until I got the funds and those 2 clients had a little fit by waiting 1 or 2 more days, one even sent me a screen shot saying "osko" and im like "mate, it's CBA that holds the funds before releasing, not my bank receiving the money"

  • +1

    Wouldn't be too concerned in this instance given its cleared and you're dropping it off at their home.

    I'd maybe ask to see their DL in person to see if the name matches up. Just say you've heard of X scams and you just want to make sure.

  • -1

    No way would I deliver anything to someone like that

  • +14

    How many PayID scams involve reversing a payid transaction? I haven't heard of any. If it was that easy then people wouldn't bother with the fake payid receipt scam.

    How many PayID scams involve the person visiting the scammers house? Haven't heard of any in Australia. I've heard of some operating out of airbnb's etc in the US.

    Nobody can guarantee you its not a scam but it seems like an extremely risky way to scam someone given that you know where he lives and you already have the money which makes it difficult for him to not get caught as well as get the money back.

    • This^^

    • +3

      Ways to successfully scam people
      1. tell them your real name
      2. give them access to your FB account that has your real name and 900 friends
      3. give them your address

      then profit! I mean, who could ever find out where you are …

      Actually you could 'scam' if you wanted to take the risk, being that you reverse the payment after receiving the card and then tell the seller 'so sue me'. The police wont be involved, they will see it as a civil case (buyer just says 'seller didnt deliver what was promised' or 'card didnt work'). Seller cant be bothered, buyer wins.

      • +2

        Yes but the seller can burn the house down, throw a brick through the window, all sorts of things. I really doubt they would want that.

        • could be housesitting
          every other day someone asks on a fb group if they could housesit for free.

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