Which Car Has Right of Way?

LReBrah on 03/02/2023 - 16:05

In the instance that both roads marked '1 lane' are free of traffic, in which order do the car colours in the below paint image have right of way? Note there are no traffic lights. The middle section is just big enough for one car on both sides.

I was in the red car and was abused by the person in the blue car, honked, tail gated, sworn at etc as I went first, given I'm in the middle of the road blocking traffic and they have a stop sign. Happy to be proven wrong, I just want to know for the future!

https://imgur.com/a/VW7ivMV

Automotive

Comments

  • soan papdi on 03/02/2023 - 16:10
    +7

    Blue has right of way over red

    • Charlieeee on 03/02/2023 - 16:40
      -5

      Really depends if red has a give way sign or not.

      • pegaxs on 03/02/2023 - 17:04
        +3

        Not really, it depends on just how wide the dividing strip area is. If it is wide enough that a car can park in there, it is then treated as a giveway intersection. (Road Rule 84)

        84 Giving way when driving through a break in a dividing strip
        (1) If a driver drives through a break in a dividing strip that has no stop sign, stop line, give way sign or give way line, the driver must give way to—
        (a) any tram on the dividing strip, and (not applicable to this intersection)
        (b) any vehicle travelling on the part of the road the driver is entering (except a vehicle to which a stop sign, stop line, give way sign, or give way line, applies).

  • pegaxs on 03/02/2023 - 16:12
    +7

    LOL…. none of them has "right of way"…

    *inhales*

    Red car must give way to yellow car.
    Blue and Purple must give way to Red car.
    Pink car must give way to Green cars.
    Yellow must give way to Green cars.

    All in all, this intersection is stupid. Do you have an actual Google maps location so we can see what it actually looks like in the right scale?

    • ThithLord on 03/02/2023 - 16:20

      Not OP but I have seen this intersection almost exactly like they describe

      • pegaxs on 03/02/2023 - 16:23
        +2

        This is why I wanted the actual location, because in your example, there are other signs that apply to drivers cross and getting the the median strip area. If that is the case with OP's example, a whole different outcome could be at play there. I have a feeling that we are missing some of the details here…

    • ReBrah on 03/02/2023 - 16:21
      +1

      While I agree with you, red and yellow are next to each other, so how does red give way to yellow? As yellow needs to give way to green, red needs to move first so a green car can move where the red car was.

      • Xistn on 03/02/2023 - 16:24

        That's Teal…. green would mean you crashed, specsavers time!

      • pegaxs on 03/02/2023 - 16:27

        Red: Because Purple and Blue are behind a "Stop Line"
        Yellow: Because Yellow is crossing over the path of the main lane. In reality, if yellow is going all the way across, they should not have left the stop sign until it was clear on both lanes.

        Your diagram is missing either signs, road markings in that median strip area or there is a scale issue where that median area is either much much bigger, or much much smaller.

        That's Teal

        Really focusing on the big issues… Teal is a member of the "green" colour family…

        • ReBrah on 03/02/2023 - 16:36
          +1

          Here we go.. there are no road markings in the middle section

          https://imgur.com/a/n1j02uW

          • pegaxs on 03/02/2023 - 16:51
            +2

            @ReBrah: Was this image ripped off Google maps via your old 486?? Saving bandwidth or something?? Would a Google Maps link have killed you?

            I cant see shit here, so I am taking your words that I cant see any road markings and there does not look like there are any signs (if I squint hard enough).

            IF Red was already be in the intersection, Purple and Blue need to give way to cars already in the intersection. (Road Rule 67)

            NOW!, that being said, IF the width of the break in the dividing strip is large enough for a whole car to fit, if that is the case, Red needs to give way to both Blue AND Purple because Red is turning and entering a road from a break in a dividing strip. So, this median area is basically treated as a giveway line. (Road Rule 84) But part B of this road rule is a bit vague, as I think it only applies to the road the driver is entering, not a road directly across… I could be wrong.

            Yellow is an idiot and should not have gone until the Green "Teal" cars were clear, but if they are in the median area, they must give way to any vehicles on the road they are entering. (also Road Rule 84)

            • GordonD on 03/02/2023 - 18:02
              +2

              @pegaxs:

              I could be wrong.

              I think you're wrong.

              I was with you right up to that paragraph. Part B of the RR84 says Red only has to give way to vehicles on the road its entering. Not other vehicles also trying to enter that road. In this case those vehicles are behind a STOP sign, so Blue has to give way to EVERYONE else. Red doesn't have to give way to Blue. Blue has to give way to Red.

              • pegaxs on 03/02/2023 - 18:35
                +1

                @GordonD: Yeah, it's weirdly worded. I dont know what to make of it.

                (1) If a driver drives through a break in a dividing strip that has no stop sign, stop line, give way sign or give way line, the driver must give way to—
                (b) any vehicle travelling on the part of the road the driver is entering (except a vehicle to which a stop sign, stop line, give way sign, or give way line, applies).

                Are they part of the road the driver is entering?? Are they part of the road the driver is on? Is the break in the dividing strip part of the main road or part of the crossing road? And what is "entering"?? Does that only mean turning onto, or does it include just crossing over it? Would the Purple or Blue car entering that road be classed as travelling on that road?

                I kind of feel the "smart" thing for the Red car to do here would be to just wait until the Blue and Purple cars have just gotten out of the way…

                Edit: OP has just linked to the intersection and it appears as though at some stage it had a give way line marked, ergo, all doubt removed, Red car needed to giveway.

                Also, I know this area well. Live not far from here… Might pop over and see if I can get a better look at it during the weekend…

                • GordonD on 03/02/2023 - 19:59

                  @pegaxs:

                  Edit: OP has just linked to the intersection and it appears as though at some stage(google.com) it had a give way line marked(google.com), ergo, all doubt removed, Red car needed to giveway.

                  But what you describe as a "give way line" is not there NOW. If it was meant to be there NOW it would be in the same good condition as all the other lines at that intersection.

                  It was no more a give way line than the broken line on the other side of the road from the solid stop line on the other side of the intersection. It looks to me that it didn't wear off, it was erased because it wasn't ever meant to be a give way line.

    • AustriaBargain on 03/02/2023 - 16:28

      I know Australia doesn't have "right of way" laws like the US, but I think we all know what people mean when we say "right of way".

      • Euphemistic on 03/02/2023 - 16:34
        +4

        Yes we all know what it means, but it’s not a term anyone should use. Yeah, it’s a bit ‘politically correct’ but changing our language to reflect the importance of giving way and that there is not a legal reference for right of way helps remind everyone of the importance of defensive driving.

      • pegaxs on 03/02/2023 - 16:34

        We do have "right of way" laws, just not what people think they are…

        And "right" of way in regards to traffic laws implies that a certain person or vehicle has an implied "right" to do something over another, and that just isnt the case. There is only the obligation to give way and remain safe. ie: you dont have any "rights" to assert when it comes to road rules.

        Just because people say it, does not make it "right".

    • Euphemistic on 03/02/2023 - 16:37

      I’ve seen plenty of this type of intersection, great big wide median in between two carriageways. Normally however, they have additional stop signs where the yellow and red car are.

  • Euphemistic on 03/02/2023 - 16:29
    +1

    None. No car has right of way.

  • bargainy on 03/02/2023 - 16:35
    +1

    Stop sign means stop, give way.

    • Muzeeb on 03/02/2023 - 16:39

      Give way sign or road markings means approach with caution, give way.

  • Lyukokki on 03/02/2023 - 16:48
    +1

    If you pretend there is no median area space for a car to wait, its a simple 4 way intersection, red is just waiting in the middle to give way to blue and purple.
    Even more isolated scenario for red, the bottom half is irrelevant, its a 4 way intersection (where 2 ways are one way only), red gives way to blue and purple (stop sign becomes a give way when said car has stopped, can't predict this so red should still give way)
    Same result, red gives way to blue and purple.

  • brownsound on 03/02/2023 - 16:53

    i probably would have waived the blue car on to go before me.

    was blue already stopped when u entered the intersection and waited to turn?

    • ReBrah on 03/02/2023 - 16:55
      +1

      Blue arrived after and went down the side of purple who was waiting to go straight.

      • skid on 03/02/2023 - 17:00
        +2

        ah, you should mention this in the OP. It makes a difference.

      • Euphemistic on 03/02/2023 - 17:23
        +1

        Did blue fully stop before moving off?

  • Ryk on 03/02/2023 - 17:02
    +2

    which state is this in? In NSW the car turning right must give way to the car turning left.
    red has to give way to pink and blue because turning right.
    red also has a stop sign and should not proceed into the intersection until they can clearly exit the intersection.
    the grass area is a median strip dividing the lanes, same as a white or yellow line, it is not dividing two roads.

    • Euphemistic on 03/02/2023 - 17:57
      +2

      Not sure I fully agree. Red is turning right, but purple and blue must stop and give way to other vehicles already in the intersection of which red is one.

      Additionally, although the stop sign is there for red, these roads with large median strips often allow enough space to cross the first carriageway and safely wait before entering the second, often with a secondary stop or giveaway sign. Effectively it’s two intersections to cross. As we don’t know the exact location I believe it’s hard to say for certain what to do in this location. I would likely stop, then proceed to the centre and wait again as necessary.

      Side note: approached a 4 way stop this arvo to turn left. Car on my right arrived at the same time (perhaps slightly after) to go straight. They waved for me to go, despite me being prepared to give way to someone going straight.

      • Ryk on 03/02/2023 - 19:33

        granted this is a large median, but it is not marked as a turning lane/bay.
        green would also need to give way to blue in a U turn, even though there's no stop sign but because green is turning. the stop sign might be confusing the issue.
        if blue was coming from the left red would still need to give way, why? because red is turning and proceeded through a stop sign. /same same

  • dtxau on 03/02/2023 - 17:40
    +2

    How hard is it to just share the location with us??? Why so vague?

    • ReBrah on 03/02/2023 - 17:55

      Here is the Google Maps view

      https://goo.gl/maps/cUTiNVnnyvWDJA6t7

      • Euphemistic on 03/02/2023 - 18:01

        Ahh. Know it well, although normally travel straight through. Which way is the red car headed? East or west?

        There’s only just enough room to wait. Carnley is a busy road. It is normal for cars to wait in the middle because it’s hard to cross both at once.

      • Ori0n on 04/02/2023 - 10:50
        -1

        Actually, this is a very common situation and can be confusing. In this instance, I believe you were incorrect. Zoom in on google maps. The red car is on a part of the road with the same name as the blue/purple cars (Birdwood St) so red needs to give way to both blue and purple as all three cars are on the same road (Birdwood St) trying to turn into another road (the one-way road Carnley Ave). Red needs to give way to purple as its going straight and to blue as it doesn't need to cross traffic to enter the street. This assumes you all arrived at the intersection at the same time and that there is no other traffic coming down Carnley Ave. The stop sign is irrelevant (other than requiring the purple and blue cars to stop before proceeding).

        Yellow should have given way to you as you exited Carnley Ave onto Birdwood.

        Even though it seems like you're still travelling on Carnley Ave and just turning off it - you actually already turned off it and into Birdwood St and you are all on the same street.

  • Almost Banned on 03/02/2023 - 18:28
    +4

    I think the island is unnecessarily confusing things.
    Just because there is an island doesn't mean the traffic signals at the entrances to the intersection no longer govern the behaviour of vehicles in the intersection.
    You were a vehicle moving through a stop sign and trying to turn right.
    The blue car was a vehicle moving through a stop sign trying to turn left.
    Of course the blue car is going to have priority - unless you have already completed your turn before he comes to a stop.

    • Euphemistic on 03/02/2023 - 19:06
      +1

      This is true, however if the blue car arrives after the red car it must stop before proceeding which does allow the red car to proceed first.

      This intersection is one I often pass (along the main road). The main road is quite busy and if exiting the side streets (with stop signs) it is prudent to cross one the prepare to wait again. I’ve seen cars waiting in the middle obstructing other cars trying to turn/cross. It’s not a great intersection and I wouldn’t be surprised if there are crashes there often enough they’ll change it so you must turn left from the stop signs. There are alternatives within a short distance with traffic lights.

  • jjjaar on 03/02/2023 - 19:17
    +5

    This is just proof of how ambiguous road design is unsafe. Regardless of who has to give way, it’s just waiting for crashes to occur.

    Being correct doesn’t matter if you are injured or killed, or are involved in someone else being injured or killed. Drive safely and assume everyone else is going to get in your way.

    The median should be closed, making everyone turn left, and u-turn cut outs should provided further up, or u-turns should be allowed at the signals to the west and roundabout or the east.

    • Euphemistic on 03/02/2023 - 19:19
      +1

      You’re right. It could be blocked quite easily and everyone finds another way. There’s plenty of alternatives without having to go far out of the way. I only surmise that there isn’t a lot of crashes there so it’s a non issue (yet)

      • jjjaar on 03/02/2023 - 19:22
        +2

        Neither the neighbourhood to the south or north need the right turn here as they have a safer option via the signals to the west.

        I only surmise that there isn’t a lot of crashes there so it’s a non issue (yet)

        Spot on. Unfortunately improvements to road safety are reactive, not proactive, and near misses, or even minor crashes, rarely count for improvements. Deaths and maybe hospitalisations are usually the only things that will help.

        So, OP, unless you want to become the statistic that makes this safer, assume the ambiguity of the intersection means everyone thinks everyone else has to give way, and drive like everyone will get in your way.

    • Ghost47 on 03/02/2023 - 19:34
      +1

      Ever driven in Sydney? Whoever designed the roads up there was on crack, there are badly designed roads basically everywhere you go.

      • jjjaar on 03/02/2023 - 20:18

        Melbourne is similar. It’s just even more of a reason to assume every other driver is expecting you to give way to them, and drive safely to avoid crashes rather than being right.

  • Mulga Bill on 03/02/2023 - 19:18
    +1

    I don't believe you should enter an intersection unless it is clear to exit so Red needs to give way to Blue

  • bmxr on 03/02/2023 - 19:28
    +2

    In order of priority (assuming no other cars enter the intersection during the time it takes for this to elapse) given your google maps image above showing give way lines dashed in the median, and NSW road rules, I believe it would be;

    orange > purple > blue > red > aqua > fuchsia

  • Ghost47 on 03/02/2023 - 20:03

    Reminds me the other day when I was doing a u-turn from a median strip. There was a car turning left onto the road (that I was entering) and an impatient bastard behind me. The car turning left for some reason didn't enter the road even when there was a decent gap in the traffic (they might have thought I had right of way). I had to give way to them so I waited for them to enter the road and go. Impatient bastard honked at me, after a bit the car turning seemed to clue in that they had right of way and I let them go and then made the u-turn.

    If I applied that logic here the blue car would have right of way, but since there's a stop sign for the blue car it sort of implies you have right of way.

    Either way, this intersection is disturbingly bad. You should contact the council and tell them to fix this crap. I'm honestly not surprised you were tail gated, sworn at etc. NSW drivers are freaking crazy.

    • jjjaar on 03/02/2023 - 20:20
      +1

      Not sure about NSW, but in Victoria, u-turners have to give way to everyone else (vehicles, peds, cyclists) on the road before u-turning. If it’s the same rule, you did the right thing.

      • Ghost47 on 03/02/2023 - 20:33

        Yeah the car turning had me questioning if I was doing the right thing or not haha.

  • RedFromBlue on 04/02/2023 - 07:45

    There is no right of way, only give way ffs. Insurance premiums go up since right of way is something the general population believe they have as soon as the are issued a license. All the effort that goes into getting the road toll down, yet a competency based repeated assesment would so easily solve so many of the issues.

  • Boogerman on 04/02/2023 - 10:37
    -2

    What happens if a tree overhanging the stop sign obscures the red car's view to be able to see that blue is facing a stop sign?
    Red would think to give way to blue car???

    • Euphemistic on 04/02/2023 - 15:29

      There’s a stop line on the road.

  • lordra on 04/02/2023 - 23:21

    Pulling into a parking spot at an Aldi, to the right of a van that was waiting to leave. Single lane traffic.
    We both had to wait as there were pedestrians in front of us. The pedestrians were moving right to left. So they cleared my spot first, so I proceeded to drive into that spot. Halfway in, the pedestrians cleared the van and he (P Plater), backed up while turning his wheel so his front was cms from my side. Had to honk, but he knew I was there, just being a dick.

    So that I know for next time, who has right of way?

    ( I avoided eye contact as that's what provocateurs thrive off, so he did a wheelspin with a screech of tires, just to show his power and anger).

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