Gender Pay Gap - What Happens Now?

Barca123 on 05/02/2023 - 16:41
Last edited 06/02/2023 - 09:55 by 2 other users

For many years there have been attempts to reduce the gender pay gap in Australia. According to the Workplace Gender Equality Agency (source):

  • The national gender pay gap is 14.1%.
  • Men are earning an average of $263.90 more than women a week.

In recent times, we have seen more and more people transition from one gender to another. So, how will this affect the gender pay gap?
Will this close the gap? Will it make the previous gender pay gap reporting redundant? Will the gender pay gap continue to focus on those two genders only?

Interested to hear everyone's thoughts.

Update

Woah! Thanks to all for your comments. Just to clarify what this post was about, and sorry to those who misinterpreted what I was trying to ask (I should have written it differently) - I was merely posing the question from a statistics point of view, and nothing else lol. Meaning, something that has been reported on for a long time and what happens when the parameters change.

Poll Options

  • 9
    Gender Pay Gap figures will be skewed;
  • 222
    Gender Pay Gap figures will not be affected;
  • 8
    Gender Pay Gap reporting will be redundant.
Education & Work

closed Comments

  • [Deactivated] on 05/02/2023 - 16:49
    +119

    recent times, we have seen more and more people transition from one gender to another.

    another stupid post to get the dumb reactionaries on here talking about WOKENESS lmao.

    the amount of transgender people in society is so so tiny and affects nothing, but conservatives love treat them as a bogeyman to continue their culture war against LGBTQ+ people.

      • [Deactivated] on 05/02/2023 - 16:53
        +11

        what?

          • Sweet Berry on 07/02/2023 - 14:50
            -7

            @Sweet Berry: I guess at least 5 people did not understand the comment. lol.

            Thanks.

      • ThithLord on 06/02/2023 - 09:01
        -2

        YET YOU REPLIED TO CULTURAL NEOMARXIST'S COMMENT

        • [Deactivated] on 06/02/2023 - 14:23

          yet you replied to their reply to my reply.

          • ThithLord on 06/02/2023 - 15:07

            @[Deactivated]: the cercle of life

          • Sweet Berry on 07/02/2023 - 14:47
            +1

            @[Deactivated]: Why do you use Jordan Peterson's photo as your own?

            Any ideas why people thought it was a negative? lol?

            Thanks for your comments anyway.

            lol?

            • trickma on 07/02/2023 - 15:25
              -2

              @Sweet Berry: Jordan Peterson Parrot it seems lol.

            • [Deactivated] on 08/02/2023 - 00:08
              -1

              @Sweet Berry: you were probably downvoted because my original comment is the opposite of something jordan peterson would say, and the people who downvoted probably didn't see my display picture.

              I've got jordan peterson as my display picture as a companion to my satirical username. he likes to attribute a lot of his perceived problems in the world to "post-modern cultural neo-marxism", which isn't a real thing.

      • [Deactivated] on 05/02/2023 - 17:05
        +8

        yes. the left wants rights for an oppressed minority - transgender people - that conservatives are denying.

        your rant is just a gish-gallop from complaining about transgenderism to mardi-gras parades to…. something about meanings of words?…. and then about people dying in workplaces. you sound very angry and confused.

        • Almost Banned on 05/02/2023 - 17:56
          +37

          What right exactly do trans people want that conservatives are denying?
          The right to ignore reality and science?
          The right to indoctinate and mutilate children?
          Yep - we absolutely should deny those 'rights'.

          • Almost Banned on 05/02/2023 - 20:16
            +25

            @Almost Banned: And I didn't even mention the 'right' to force sportspeople to wear uniforms that celebrate your deviancy or be ridiculed and cancelled.
            Another 'right' that must also be denied.

            • smartazz104 on 06/02/2023 - 14:03
              +11

              @Almost Banned:

              celebrate your deviancy

              How come the church gets a pass for deviancy…

              • Almost Banned on 06/02/2023 - 14:32
                +13

                @smartazz104: Any harmful deviancy displayed or encouraged by any church does not get a pass from me.

            • markathome on 08/02/2023 - 00:44
              +1

              @Almost Banned:

              And I didn't even mention the 'right' to force sportspeople to wear uniforms that celebrate your deviancy or be ridiculed and cancelled.

              I'm confused. Are OzBargain sponsoring sports teams now or something?

          • amzinguserman on 08/02/2023 - 18:17
            +1

            @Almost Banned: holy shit talk about false equivalency

        • CowFrogHorse on 07/02/2023 - 11:21
          +3

          No its just a distraction.

          Australians have been robbed and lied too by the push for BIG Australia. Basically Everybody loses in this game.

          Do i really need to tell you about house prices going up, traffic/commuting times. Schools being full where kids cant even play cricket etc.

          The above issues i mentioned and related ones are making Australia worse for Australians when given technology and the wealth of the country we should be making things better.

        • Chris12345 on 08/02/2023 - 18:23
          -1

          Well said. Can't let bullshit like the post youre responding too slide. The 'rights' the deviant woke mob want is the right to force people to indulge the sexual fetish of some disturbed men.

      • Clickbait on 05/02/2023 - 17:22
        +7

        "Deviant"? I thought that word had been banished.
        Like everything else that fills the MSM headlines, the entirely political "Gender" debate is grist for the mill of distraction from reality.
        Watch Jordan Peterson's interview with Cathy Newman, which covers the gender pay gap and "Words".
        Please, before reacting to the mention of Peterson's name, remember he is not a "far right" nazi,
        He simply refused to obey a left wing Canadian Dictat about "compelled words", and has never been accused of refusing a single person's request.

        • Almost Banned on 05/02/2023 - 17:52
          +4

          Deviant - departing from the norm.
          The word is perfectly apt.

          • Eeples on 06/02/2023 - 18:29
            +1

            @Almost Banned: The word has a negative meaning as that is the usual way it has been used.

        • based on 06/02/2023 - 11:52
          +10

          lmao the guy that ate so much meat he ended up in a meat coma and yet somehow still has no idea how to cook a steak?

        • whatwasherproblem on 06/02/2023 - 13:24
          +8

          Please, before reacting to the mention of Peterson's name, remember he is not a "far right" nazi

          Yeah I know that. I don't mock JP for that, I mock JP because he has a Kermit voice, can't sit through a single media appearance without bursting into tears, Keto'd himself into a coma and now hilariously rails against online anonymity despite being the poster-child for why online anonymity is a good thing.

          • Almost Banned on 06/02/2023 - 14:33
            +3

            @whatwasherproblem: I've seen plenty of media engagements where JP doesn't shed a single tear - but I agree with you on his voice - ugh.

            • whatwasherproblem on 06/02/2023 - 14:36

              @Almost Banned: He wasn't always as bad as he is now, but it seems like these days he's an emotional wreck and liable to start sobbing at the slightest provocation.

              In my more tinfoily moments I wonder if something went wrong during his Russian hospital detox.

        • entropysbane on 07/02/2023 - 23:09
          +1

          The national socialist workers party were not “far right.” They were cousins of communists up until Operation Barbarossa in 1941, which was the day from which the narrative said NAZIs became right wing.

      • bmerigan on 06/02/2023 - 22:13
        +10

        I've been around for 46 years and still don't know what "the left" means.
        As far as I can tell it just means "people I disagree with".

        • Almost Banned on 06/02/2023 - 23:18
          +1

          No - the word you are looking for is either 'fascist' or 'racist' or 'x-phobe'.

        • [Deactivated] on 07/02/2023 - 16:37
          +3

          It's quite easy to know what "the left" means. Take the gender pay gap. Do you think it's the result of the choices men and women make, or do you think it's the result of men oppressing women?

          • bmerigan on 07/02/2023 - 17:42
            +5

            @[Deactivated]: That definitely, 100%, did not help define "the left".

            • [Deactivated] on 07/02/2023 - 17:58
              +6

              @bmerigan: Answer the question, and I'll tell you why you don't know what the left is. If your answer is oppression, the reason you don't know what the left is, is that you are the left. Refusing to answer is also an answer.

              The fact that the gender wage gap is even considered an issue at all, is that the left claim it is. When you look closer though, you'll see most of it can easily be explained by hours worked, and in some cases, women are actually making more than men.

              If you've never encountered any of this, and genuinely don't know what the left is, either you've been living under a rock, or are so indoctrinated into thinking it's normal, that you don't see it as a problem.

              • bmerigan on 07/02/2023 - 22:50
                +2

                @[Deactivated]: I don't think there's an issue of women being paid less for the same role and hours.
                The "cause" of the "gap" I believe is due to all the unpaid time women take away from work to raise children leaving them with less earnings over their lifetime.

                • entropysbane on 07/02/2023 - 23:14
                  +4

                  @bmerigan: Yes, that is so, but also career choice. A childcare worker or primary school teacher (both nearly all women) is not ever going to earn the same as an iron ore miner (mostly men).

                  The stats of course, are overall across all career choices. Useless for anything except political shenanigans.

                • [Deactivated] on 07/02/2023 - 23:15
                  +1

                  @bmerigan: That's certainly part of it. Anyone that doesn't take time off work for extended periods will make more than people that do.

                  Then if you've genuinely never understood what the left is, then I can only imagine you don't care about anything they're doing, or simply never encountered it.

                  The left sees everything as oppressed group versus oppressor group. That's the entire premise of the left.

                  You could quite easily continue the rest of your life completely ignoring it, and barring some cultural revolution or civil war, you'd never even know they were there.

          • saltypete on 08/02/2023 - 01:08

            @[Deactivated]: What if you think the answer to both questions is yes?

            • [Deactivated] on 08/02/2023 - 01:24

              @saltypete: I guess you could possibly see it that way, but what's interesting about the gap, is that the more wealthy a country, the more education women have, the more choices women have, the greater the gap widens. The only places where the gap is insignificant is countries where everyone is so poor that everyone has to work what ever they can just to make ends meet.

              The reason I was asking was to find out why bmerigan didn't seem to understand what the left was. Either they had simply never encountered them, or they were so entrenched in their thinking that they didn't seem to understand why people disliked the left.

              • saltypete on 08/02/2023 - 08:02
                +1

                @[Deactivated]: Yes I see that.
                The terms ‘left’ and ‘right’ are subjective and generally seem to be used pejoratively lately. And I guess my point was that many peoples attitudes and situations are not best described in a binary way. Gender pay gaps for example are more complicated than that.
                I think many in society have fallen into the ‘example’ of modern journalism of simplifying things to extremes and many things are not like that at all. Discourse on Social media then quickly degenerates to slinging matches because we don’t practice the art of asking questions and understanding other points of view - we are all too busy throwing our two bobs worth in. 🤷‍♂️

    • bargaino on 05/02/2023 - 18:14
      +5

      another stupid post to get the dumb reactionaries on here talking about WOKENESS

      I agree with your assessment of the question, but you are falling into the trap of mirroring the OP, and doing the same thing. Lets not turn the other tribe into a bogeyman, eh? The culture war is over ideas and interpretations, not a war against people. Stop throwing fuel onto the fire. I know, you didn't start it, but no need to make it worse. You are demonising people in the exact same way that you complain about others doing.

    • bobbified on 05/02/2023 - 19:12
      +9

      the amount of transgender people in society is so so tiny and affects nothing,

      The numbers are so small right now that it won't impact the so-called "wage gap", but it doesn't 'affect nothing'. You see things like this and this?

      I also often wonder how much corporations spend on all this "diversity training" that is compulsory for all employees etc. It's a tiny tiny number, but everyone seems to be pandering to those few.

      • ThithLord on 06/02/2023 - 09:03
        +8

        Birthing Parent nonsense on birth certificates

        They affect you how, exactly?

        Jakers, talk about being wrapped in cotton wool

        • bobbified on 07/02/2023 - 12:15
          +8

          Why is it that these very very few people have the right to 'feel' offended, but noone else is allowed to?

          • ThithLord on 07/02/2023 - 12:31
            +2

            @bobbified: Diddums, are you gonna be okay in this made-up hypothetical situation?

            • bobbified on 07/02/2023 - 12:49
              +4

              @ThithLord:

              ….in this made-up hypothetical situation?

              hmmm… I really don't think I'm the right person you should be directing your question about 'made-up' things to.

      • CowFrogHorse on 07/02/2023 - 11:22
        +6

        Thats all a dumb distraction, to avoid the fact that corporations are trying to make people be on call without pay and without other benefits 24/7/365.

    • Gnostikos on 05/02/2023 - 19:59
      +13

      another stupid post to get the dumb reactionaries on here talking about WOKENESS lmao.

      Wow, you're precious.

      Bemoans other people for being "dumb reactionaries" while being comically triggered apropros of absolutely nothing without a single "conservative" comment preceding their post.

      Hysterical hypocrite - check.

      Username - check.

      • [Deactivated] on 05/02/2023 - 20:37
        -3

        you sound like a very sensitive person if you thought what i wrote was an example of someone being "comically triggered". are you an empath by any chance?

        • Gnostikos on 05/02/2023 - 21:29
          +6

          You sound like the guy at 0:38.

    • infinite on 06/02/2023 - 17:37
      +4

      This is some impressive projection.

      Talk about getting your jimmies rustled.

    • rainbowvac on 06/02/2023 - 19:13
      +3

      I'm a gay person who only believes there is 2 genders and you're born with option a or b. This crap has gotten out of hand.

      • Randolph Duke on 08/02/2023 - 15:41
        +2

        And 50 years ago when society didn’t think you existed?

        • amzinguserman on 08/02/2023 - 18:23
          +4

          50 years ago they thought it was a mental illness.

          man it must take a special type of thinking to be gay and not realize that trans people are being targeted as the new 'gay" boogeyman

          • Chris12345 on 08/02/2023 - 18:26
            +1

            @amzinguserman: Big difference is that people are not being forced to participate in the kinks of gay men.

    • [Deactivated] on 06/02/2023 - 19:39

      There's a difference between people, some of which may be on the letter spectrum, and the woke movement. In the same way there is a difference between women and feminists. There are trans people, most of which are MTF, rarely FTM, that hold those "conservative" anti-woke views. You don't get to use them as your shield.

      • Jolakot on 07/02/2023 - 08:00
        +1

        There's an almost equal amount of FTM people, they're just less visible in the media as few people care

        • [Deactivated] on 07/02/2023 - 08:09

          I wasn't commenting on the overall numbers. I was talking about trans people with anti-woke views.

    • Thaal Sinestro on 07/02/2023 - 03:24
      -5

      "the amount of transgender people in society is so so tiny". I read 21% of Generation Z in America are now LGBTQQIAAP (or whatever the term is now). Like obesity and type 2 diabetes, transgenderism is increasing exponentially. In 50 years, 80% of the population will be LBGT. Everyone under 30 wants to transition; they want to belong to the coolest and most privileged minority group. About 70% of transitioners now are females wanting to be male.

      The future is Trans.

      • Jolakot on 07/02/2023 - 08:04
        +3

        This is just the same statistical nonsense as rising autism/adhd rates, the diagnosis to prevelance ratio isn't linear

      • entropysbane on 07/02/2023 - 23:19

        Pretty sure if I was asked such an annoying survey question I would have responded as divergent.

        Much the same with those loaded political surveys, once you work out what they want you to say, just say the opposite to wreck their annoying survey.

    • ozhunter on 07/02/2023 - 05:10
      +2

      the amount of transgender people in society is so so tiny and affects nothing

      so tiny, yet it affects quite a bit. basic truth for one thing and wanting everyone to pretend and play along.

      but conservatives love treat them as a bogeyman to continue their culture war against LGBTQ+ people

      lol, lgbt just love playing the victim. lgb(drop the t) was trendingon twitter a while ago and not surprised it's banned on reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/hovhaa/rlgbdropthet_i…

  • SF3 on 05/02/2023 - 16:53
    +45

    In recent times, we have seen more and more people transition from one gender to another. So, how will this affect the gender pay gap?

    I stopped reading from there.

    • Kangal on 06/02/2023 - 09:43
      +14

      I think people in general are stupid, if they're falling for this. A hardcore leftist has SO MUCH in common with a hardcore right person, it's amusing. What they both are blind to, is that they have very little in common with the people they vote for. It's not about racism, or sexism, or transphobia… this is a class/caste separation.

      In terms of the pay gap, it is real. There is discrimination. Women earn more than men, when you look at the same job descriptions and same hours. But no-one cares about it. There's more men working full-time and overtime, and in industries that are harder to get into, are physically demanding, or have highrisk factors.

      The solution isn't to get red/black-pilled or to block traffic and start riots. It's to recognise the issues and challenges first, then to take actions to reconcile them. For both, this means being a productive member of society.

      • 900dollaridoos on 06/02/2023 - 13:45
        +9

        A hardcore leftist has SO MUCH in common with a hardcore right person, it's amusing

        The craziest I've seen of this is the uni's in America imposing 'POC only' areas, libraries etc.
        You just know the KKK members of yesteryear are looking up from hell and smiling at the minorities self-segregating in the name of progress.

        Women earn more than men, when you look at the same job descriptions and same hours.

        Got any links for this? Years back I came to the same conclusion using American data but could never find decent Aussie figures to argue in either direction.

        • Kangal on 06/02/2023 - 21:02
          +2

          I saw it based on American data, since they're obsessed with it. But it's certainly the case here too. Another interesting point I saw, was that developmentally girls are ahead of boys by 1-2 years (brain changes in puberty). Hence they're dominating when it comes to schoolwork and university entrance exam, which spins their career pathway differently. Especially for kids who initially failed, they seldom try again, but look for different careers. Some of the affluent people have chosen to delay their kids enrolment deliberately, or opt for private homeschooling instead. The paternal instinct to give the best for our offspring is a strong phenomenon.

          • Jolakot on 07/02/2023 - 08:07

            @Kangal: Where's the American data? I looked for it myself and couldn't find anything

        • modiika on 07/02/2023 - 11:49
          +3

          You can see data on https://www.wgea.gov.au/data-statistics/data-explorer or look at this report https://www.wgea.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/FINAL%….

          I WEGA's data seems more confusingly presented than the last time I looked. I looked a few years ago, and it was clear, even within an industry at the same level of experience women earned less than men in the same roles, generally speaking.

          A summary of that report i linked is here, https://www.wgea.gov.au/publications/fourth-edition-of-the-s…, and a key finding is 'The industry analysis finds that women in feminised industries face barriers to achieving wage parity, with gender pay gaps above the national average and under representation in promotions and key management positions.' Also later on you in the report they state that the gap is the worst in jobs that pay the most, i.e. top 20% of women earners faced the biggest pay gap to their male counterparts.

          I think you combine this and it explains why a lot of men dont see the pay gap. A lot of male dominated industries (e.g. mining, engineering) are probably pushing pretty hard to achieve gender balance which is generally impossible due to limited number of female graduates in these fields, which means these industries often have special recruitment focus and programs targeting women to try and retain the women in the area. But that doesnt mean it isnt out there.

          It's pretty clear that having children is a massive barrier to career growth and progression, and theres only so much that can be compensated for. Personally, I think the best approach is to encourage fairly equal level taking by both genders around child birth. If an employer knows a man is as likely as a woman to take 6-12 months of for child rearing, then I think it removes a big stigma from the workplace, and also helps removes stigma from periods of absence from the workforce.

          When they look at gender balance in jobs, so much focus is put on getting more of the missing gender into that career. And while we can wonder about nature vs nurture, i think its clear that cultural values and history play (i.e. nurture) at least a significant part in why different genders choose different jobs even if there is an underlying gender preference for different roles. So i think its better to look at a more holistic approach to these industries and get more men into female dominated industries and vice versa. That is, its no use just trying to squeeze more women into a specific industry, you should be attracting men to go into other industries so there are jobs for women to take and vice versa.

          I generally think that if we focus on the 70% of the pay gap which is not discrimination related, and keeping awareness and strong rules in place for discrimination, that the discrimination will largely resolve its self as the other areas are addressed.

          The US is interesting because women are really pulling ahead of men in education there, so we may see a fairly different make up in 20-30 years.

          • GandalfTheCheap on 08/02/2023 - 10:56
            +1

            @modiika: Mate, I think this is the wrong thread for facts or thoughtfulness, or nuance 😂

    • ssfps on 07/02/2023 - 03:28

      I don't know the stats but if you work in software/IT you probably know more than one MtF trans person. I personally know 4. If you're a bricky then yeah maybe it's just a distant meme.
      Point is there are sub groups where it's more common than others.
      I've literally worked with more MtF trans people than biological women in my current industry.

      • Jolakot on 07/02/2023 - 08:21

        It really is common in software engineering, I've worked with at least 2 transwomen as well

        It's been like this since the start of modern computing too, almost every list of the most influential women in the industry will have people like Lynn Conway and Sophie Wilson on it

        I suppose with programming starting as a female-dominated industry, shifting to male-dominated as the revolution kicked off, that cultural inbetween would be safer than most other places for someone who themselves felt inbetween

        • ssfps on 07/02/2023 - 13:35
          +3

          I think it has to do with the trans-autism link, and the apparent autism-programming link ;)

  • orangetrain on 05/02/2023 - 16:54
    +15

    In recent times, we have seen more and more people transition from one gender to another.

    So, are they changing to male then? Or female? How much people are doing this? 300 per year out of 24 million? Stop the presses…

    • SF3 on 05/02/2023 - 16:56
      +13

      If OP thinks people change gender BECAUSE they want change their pay… 🤦‍♂️

      • Almost Banned on 05/02/2023 - 16:58
        +33

        No - just to win sporting events.

          • Almost Banned on 05/02/2023 - 17:53
            +44

            @[Deactivated]: Does there need to be thousands or millions?
            If it was your daughter denied a win because of a confused male, one would be too many.
            If it was your daughter forced to share a locker room with an intact biological male, it would be too many.
            If it was your daughter denied an athletic scholarship because of a confused male, it would be too many.

            • Gervais fanboy on 05/02/2023 - 20:33
              +6

              @Almost Banned: You can type out the word of gospel and they still wouldn’t concede.

              I have made very similar points to my mate above, it never makes a difference to his radicalised being.
              He’ll just stop replying and wait to pop up with the same drivel on a different post, couple of months down the line.

              • Almost Banned on 05/02/2023 - 20:43
                +19

                @Gervais fanboy: I don't need anyone else to agree with my sexuality, but for too many people their whole identity requires others to affirm them constantly.
                I reminds me of a fairy tale where everyone knew the Emperor was naked, but were too scared to say it out loud. Everyone thought THEY were the crazy one, and that everyone else must be right.
                The Emperor RELIED on the silence of the masses - because as soon as someone spoke out, everyone realised the whole thing was built on a lie.
                If this were a real thing it wouldn't matter if everyone else denied it - but because its all a lie, they need everyone to go along silently.
                I will not be silent.

              • [Deactivated] on 05/02/2023 - 20:47
                -6

                @Gervais fanboy:

                You can type out the word of gospel and they still wouldn’t concede

                what does that mean? reading the bible will make me change my mind? talk about being "radicalised"

                • Gervais fanboy on 05/02/2023 - 21:10
                  +8

                  @[Deactivated]:

                  what does that mean?

                  Firstly, no surprise that this is the only thing you would care addressing to..

                  So I wasn’t making any religious assertions per se.
                  Was using ‘gospel’ as an informal expression to reference the truth.

              • Almost Banned on 05/02/2023 - 20:45
                +18

                @[Deactivated]: But its not a girl - its a boy who is confused but retains all of the physical advantages of being a boy.
                You can try to pretend a wolf is a sheep, but it will always be a wolf.

                • [Deactivated] on 05/02/2023 - 20:53
                  -6

                  @Almost Banned: let's go back to your original statement that i replied to.

                  SF3 said:

                  OP thinks people change gender BECAUSE they want change their pay

                  to which you replied:

                  No - just to win sporting events

                  meaning that you genuinely think there are people out there who purposefully "change genders" on a whim to win sporting events. a claim so ridiculous it borders parody.

                  • Almost Banned on 05/02/2023 - 21:04
                    +4

                    @[Deactivated]: I'm open to the idea that they have other motivations, including social contagion and mental confusion - but the result for the actual women being displaced remains the same.

                    • Gervais fanboy on 05/02/2023 - 21:13
                      +2

                      @Almost Banned: Let’s take it down a notch, go to the basics here

                      @Cultural NeoMarxist, do you atleast acknowledge that biological males have a considerable physical advantage over biological females? Do you Atleast agree with that?

                      There’s no point talking such complex issues, if we can’t lay some common ground work first..

                        • Gervais fanboy on 05/02/2023 - 21:51
                          +7

                          @[Deactivated]:

                          yes

                          ‘Woke’ progressive types would disagree

                          yes. which is why trans women take hormone blockers, and trans men take HRT.

                          I asked you a question but you have added your own conjecture to it.
                          Btw you do understand that a boy that’s undergone puberty as a boy, would always hold a physical advantage regardless of him going on testosterone blockers later in his/her life..

                          Exactly the reason why you would never see a ‘trans man’ athlete ever achieving anything in the realm of male sports.
                          It’s always ‘trans woman’ that will win and trounce their competition in female sports.
                          Why do you think that is?
                          You can writing your insincere drivel about Hormone blockers, taking oestrogen etc whatever.
                          But you know the obvious here but you’ll keep arguing.

                          the number of female athletes who are trans women is so inconsequential

                          If it’s that insignificant, why the fuss in banning them from competing?
                          Also before you go out falsely labelling people..
                          There’s no one raising a voice against ‘trans men’ competing against other men.
                          They are not putting any one at a disadvantage but trans women athletes are.
                          Allow trans men - sure.
                          Tran women - no

                          conservatives

                          Why are you telling me that?
                          Are you calling me one?
                          If yes, what have I explicitly said on this site that makes me a conservative?

                          I called you a radical - based on your views (I can’t quote some if you want me to)
                          But I haven’t called you a liberal or anything in particular like that.

                          important things that conservatives could be focussing on to improve society, but no

                          Like what? Can you list some?

                          Like the climate change doom predicting the end of world for the past 100 years and has always turned out to be a scam.

                          Also btw this was a troll post at best, it wasn’t a conservative that posted this.

                        • Danstar on 06/02/2023 - 06:36
                          +8

                          @[Deactivated]:

                          there are so many more important things that conservatives could be focusing on to improve society

                          Yet you left wingers spend majority of your time yelling and screaming about this topic…

                        • [Deactivated] on 06/02/2023 - 19:48
                          +5

                          @[Deactivated]: It doesn't matter how many hormones you pump them with, no FTM athletes can beat males. Likewise, it doesn't matter what they cut off, add on, or chemically block, MTF athletes can easily crush females.

                        • ozhunter on 07/02/2023 - 06:08
                          +4

                          @[Deactivated]:

                          the number of female athletes who are trans women is so inconsequential that it's farcical how much space this takes in public discourse

                          Even one "trans" woman can make a huge difference like Hannah Mouncey https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/687a0bb55afc070dd972f…

                          Lia Thomas in the US has been doing much better since competing with women.

                          Unfair to all those women in sports and off-putting/discouraging to any women athletes wanting to participate in sports in the future knowing that after years of training, they may have to compete against a biological man.

                          No issue with them competing, it just should be against those of the same biological sex.

                    • Chris12345 on 08/02/2023 - 18:55

                      @Almost Banned: Mate, all your posts are right on the money - but you're pulling punches here. You didn't list the number 1 motivation. Sexual kink/autogynephilia.

                • CurlCurl on 08/02/2023 - 20:34

                  @Almost Banned: So I guess you haven't heard of post op.

            • Gnostikos on 05/02/2023 - 21:38
              +8

              @Almost Banned:

              If it was your daughter denied a win because of a confused male, one would be too many.
              If it was your daughter forced to share a locker room with an intact biological male, it would be too many.
              If it was your daughter denied an athletic scholarship because of a confused male, it would be too many.

              Don't worry yourself, Cultural NeoMarxist's family tree dead ends with him.

              • Almost Banned on 05/02/2023 - 22:37
                +12

                @Gnostikos: Do you remember when they told us that if you didn't want a gay marriage, you didn't need to have one?
                And now we know that has turned into, if you don't wear the shirt we will destroy your life.
                The playbook is acceptance, celebration, then participation. Tolerance is no longer enough, now you need to affirm and be involved.
                The only good thing about that is it's a game they can only play once if people refuse to be fooled twice.

                • Gervais fanboy on 05/02/2023 - 23:17
                  +5

                  @Almost Banned:

                  Do you remember when they told us that if you didn't want a gay marriage, you didn't need to have one?

                  Exactly, lol I would argue with my grandmother for her beliefs and tell her she’s clueless, out of touch etc
                  And she would tell me to wait and see what the society would look like in a few decades. I guess she was right in so many ways.

                  Btw I still support the people’s right to alternate lifestyles but there is a common pattern here of genuine movements being hijacked by the radicals and politicians to stoke tensions and furthering divides..
                  The academia and most institutions have completely been taken over and unabashedly brainwashing the kids..
                  Churning out more @Cultural Neomarxists every year..
                  I don’t even pretend to know how to aptly manage a society like this. More depressingly, neither does any of our ‘leaders’

                  • Almost Banned on 05/02/2023 - 23:23
                    +8

                    @Gervais fanboy: It is bad enough when they come for the adults, but when they come for the children…
                    Anyone with more than a five second memory can see what is happening, but so many refuse to see what is right in front of them.

                    • djmatt24 on 06/02/2023 - 01:22
                      -6

                      @Almost Banned: It's pretty clear from your comments you're just a bigot with a chip on his shoulder because diverse people people get to enjoy and express themselves in a society which values inclusivity and rejects whatever 'values' you think you're standing up for in this situation.

                      I mean, you attempted to use the very rare, (already dealt with) competitive sports argument as weak evidence to smear all transpeople with a broad brush: 'See? Trans people are completely wrong and unnatural and bad in any reality.'
                      Sorry, that's just BS. What a ridiculous argument.
                      Just be honest - you're uncomfortable with something you don't/can't understand.

                      Then you decided to really put the bigotry on display by having a swing at gay marriage. Not mentioned anywhere else in this thread, not relevant to the topic, but you just needed to get off your chest how much you hate the fact that (for more than 5 years now) some people you don't know can get married with litterally zero affect on your life.
                      Why not just leave them in peace? Are you so intolerant you feel the need to go out of your way to make disparaging comments on the internet about it/them?
                      That's the behaviour of an ignorant child.

                      And to top it off… thinly disguised slander saying 'they are coming for the children' really just demonstrates your extreme level of hatred toward them. It's a pretty vile comment and blindly uneducated.

                      There's so many issues in your world view, and you seem totally unchangeable by education (as in a real, balanced education, not your rabbit hole extremist playlist on YouTube) or being open to listen to any fact or new way of thinking that doesn't just reinforce your rigid outlook (confirmation bias).

                      It sounds like a very limited and hateful experience of the world.
                      I hope you realise it some day and decide to try compassion instead.
                      Otherwise I think you'll find society has moved on and left you behind.

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