Gender Pay Gap - What Happens Now?

Barca123 on 05/02/2023 - 16:41
Last edited 06/02/2023 - 09:55 by 2 other users

For many years there have been attempts to reduce the gender pay gap in Australia. According to the Workplace Gender Equality Agency (source):

  • The national gender pay gap is 14.1%.
  • Men are earning an average of $263.90 more than women a week.

In recent times, we have seen more and more people transition from one gender to another. So, how will this affect the gender pay gap?
Will this close the gap? Will it make the previous gender pay gap reporting redundant? Will the gender pay gap continue to focus on those two genders only?

Interested to hear everyone's thoughts.

Update

Woah! Thanks to all for your comments. Just to clarify what this post was about, and sorry to those who misinterpreted what I was trying to ask (I should have written it differently) - I was merely posing the question from a statistics point of view, and nothing else lol. Meaning, something that has been reported on for a long time and what happens when the parameters change.

Poll Options

  • 9
    Gender Pay Gap figures will be skewed;
  • 222
    Gender Pay Gap figures will not be affected;
  • 8
    Gender Pay Gap reporting will be redundant.
Education & Work

closed Comments

                      • [Deactivated] on 06/02/2023 - 02:47
                        +6

                        @djmatt24: acceptance and compassion? sounds like a bunch of WOKE NONSENSE to me

                      • Motek Benzona on 06/02/2023 - 07:38
                        +4

                        @djmatt24: Who on earth cares what society does? Im happy to be left behind by the majority.. because they are idiots

                      • sakurashu on 06/02/2023 - 09:52
                        +2

                        @djmatt24: The don't say gay bill controversy in florida is a pretty good example of "coming for the children" isn't it?

                        • Almost Banned on 06/02/2023 - 17:41
                          +4

                          @sakurashu: Yes, it is.
                          The Act protects children from being taught radical gender theory until they reach the age of 8, and requires parents be informed if the child is sexually confused.
                          Incredibly radical, isn't it?

                  • dealsucker on 06/02/2023 - 09:03
                    +5

                    @Gervais fanboy: In a world which is going through disruption, electric cars, autonomous driving, AI etc we are discussing whether a male with male anatomy is a real male or not.

                • whatgift on 06/02/2023 - 15:56

                  @Almost Banned: Lol what? Gay marriage has not affected non-gay's peoples lives in any way, except in their heads maybe?

                  • Almost Banned on 06/02/2023 - 17:37
                    +3

                    @whatgift: Try telling that to Des Hasler. You think his life was impacted at all????

                    • whatgift on 08/02/2023 - 15:47

                      @Almost Banned: What an interesting connection between 'placing a coloured stripe on a football jersey' and gay marriage haha!

            • 91rs on 06/02/2023 - 10:14
              +1

              @Almost Banned: Why pretend and say "confused"?
              Its either two things, they're so below average they can't compete in men's sports so they're claiming to be another gender to win and think they're great (delusion that its a level playing field) or its just straight up mental illness that too many people are entertaining.

              Either way it's nothing to do with the made up gender pay gap argument.

  • FoxJump on 05/02/2023 - 16:57
    +4

    i think non binary genders create more categories for there to be a new gender gap

    • idonotknowwhy on 06/02/2023 - 08:05
      +1

      They're really stressing my user database. The boolean field 'Male' used to be set to either true or false. Now I've had to make it nullable :(

      • FoxJump on 06/02/2023 - 08:33
        +1

        what about FILE_NOT_FOUND?

      • dealsucker on 06/02/2023 - 09:05
        +1

        Now you cannot just select, it is a varchar now with ever increasing length.

      • trapper on 06/02/2023 - 12:31

        Just record sex not 'gender'.

  • Gnostikos on 05/02/2023 - 17:03
    +84

    Men earn more on average because they choose to work more hours on average and work in higher-paying jobs on average.

    Women earn less on average because they choose lower-paying career paths, relatively speaking, and work lower hours due to various sociological, cultural and biological factors.

    Any other conclusion drawn from "the statistics" is outright agitprop to further sow division between the sexes/classes.

    Now let's discuss the other aspects of "male privilege" like:

    • Living 10 years less than women on average.
    • Being the overwhelming majority of victims of violent crime and suicide.
    • Being the overwhelming majority of homeless people.
    • Receiving far harsher criminal sentences for the same crimes compared to women.
    • Being the overwhelmingly majority of workers in dangerous/dirty/difficult professions.
    • Discrimination in family law courts where women are awarded the majority of sole custody settlements.
      • Gnostikos on 05/02/2023 - 17:56
        +18

        Cool buzzword, bro.

        Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

    • Kramo on 05/02/2023 - 18:11
      -5

      Women earn less on average because they choose lower-paying career paths

      Isn't it interesting that over time as more women enter a field, the average wages across that field lower? optional source It's easy to say they choose 'lower-paying career paths', as if it's not possible that the career paths are lower because they're female dominated fields.

      • Jolakot on 07/02/2023 - 08:27
        +3

        That is interesting, why wouldn't all companies only hire women so they can reduce salaries across the board?

        • Kramo on 07/02/2023 - 10:15
          +1

          Your response to "as an industry trends towards having a higher proportion of female workers, the wages reduce, as a result of devaluation of the same work when it's done by a women" is "that can't be true, otherwise only women would get hired"?

      • OzBarAnon on 08/02/2023 - 01:15
        +1

        Introduction of an expanded pool of workers means greater supply, but not necessarily greater demand, hence the suppression of wages.

    • bargaino on 05/02/2023 - 18:17
      +6

      Yes, but there is more to it.
      Uber did a very interesting study on the gender pay gap, driven by a lot of very good data from their business. Freakonomics did a good podcast, or just google.

      e.g.
      https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2018/07/09/a…

      • eckorock on 07/02/2023 - 22:34
        +1

        Most interesting comment here, inasmuch as you actually cite research with real data.

    • Ughhh on 05/02/2023 - 22:28
      -1

      Is it women's fault that men tend to be higher risk takers and less willing to share their feelings?

      • Binchicken22 on 06/02/2023 - 08:56
        +5

        Well probably not, though you could argue the point about being less willing to share their feelings. Women, no matter what the media tells you, don't actually want a sooky husband.

        As far as higher risk takers, no that isn't women's fault, but it's also not men's fault that business are willing to exploit that for more profits and in turn those positions are probably paid a little more.

        • Ughhh on 06/02/2023 - 12:05

          don't actually want a sooky husband

          I assume guys usually have more guy friends than girl friends, are the guys sharing their feelings with each other? If not, why aren't the men encouraging and supporting each other more?

          that business are willing to exploit that for more profits

          So perhaps next time a guy from my team refuses to use a trolley to move a heavy bucket because "is only x kg, that's nothing", then hurts his back, what should I do? Fire him?

          • Binchicken22 on 06/02/2023 - 12:55
            +1

            @Ughhh: I've definitely had chats with mates about various issues before, it's not like it doesn't happen. Maybe it happens less than women do it, I don't know.

            As far as the "refusing to use a trolley to move a heavy bucket" scenario, it's really not something I could answer based off that. So many factors come into it, exactly how heavy is the bucket, the bucket design, how far is it being moved and the proposed path. Does the trolley mitigate one risk but bring fourth another etc etc.

            Either way, the refusing to use a mechanical aid because a man thinks he is "strong enough", whether that's true or not, isn't really what I was getting at. It was more along the lines of, men choose to uptake professions like underground mining at much, much higher rates than women. Even though a woman with the right qualifications for a mining job is, in my experience, automatically shortlisted and, unless there are extenuating circumstances as to why she's really not suitable, she'll get the job. (Gotta love diversity hires.)

            The guys (& some women) on underground mines are some of the most safety conscious workers you'll meet, you've got to be, but the job itself is inherently risky.

      • Gnostikos on 07/02/2023 - 17:57
        +2

        Is it women's fault that men tend to be higher risk takers and less willing to share their feelings?

        Yeah it's almost as if there are tangible biological and psychological differences between men and women and no amount of mental gymnastics enforced by the government, mass media and corporations can make that go away for the sake of political correctness, identity politics and feel-good moral relativism?

    • Dogsab on 06/02/2023 - 14:21
      +2

      Can you please provide some data to support your statement that discrimination in the family court results in women being granted the majority of "sole custody" (and maybe clarifiy what it is you mean by this) orders?

      My research tells me that a no time order is made in only 3% of matters decided by the family law courts.

      • Binchicken22 on 06/02/2023 - 17:45
        +1

        Even if "no time" orders are only made in 3% of cases, there is still a clear bias towards women being awarded primary custody. I

        It's still pretty common for men to get the old "every 2nd weekend" treatment.

        • Dogsab on 07/02/2023 - 23:27

          I'm not sure why a larger proportion of court orders resulting in children living with their mother for a greater period of time than with their father automatically = "clear bias towards women".

          The test is "best interests of a child" not "men suck women good". Is it really a shock that parents who are not able to agree on the arrangements for their children to the extent that they need to have it decided by a judge do not have the communication skills necessary for their children to spend equal time with them both?

          That, in combination with other societal factors (including those that underpin the gender pay gap) seems like a more logical reason for the statistical outcome than a "clear bias towards women".

          The most damaging impacts on children during separation come from witnessing conflict between their parents, not from spending more time with one than the other.

    • boirganz on 06/02/2023 - 20:31

      Err well there’s pretty good explanations for all those points - and it’s not because of any inequality…

  • SBOB on 05/02/2023 - 17:07
    +19

    In recent times, we have seen more and more people transition from one gender to another. So, how will this affect the gender pay gap?

    What you’ve just posted is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought….

    Definitely Billy Madison quote level worthy content there…

  • happydude on 05/02/2023 - 17:10
    +24

    The rate of trans is so low that it is statically irrelevant.

    /thread,

    • Almost Banned on 05/02/2023 - 17:57
      +3

      In the US the number could be around 5% - and is a massive increase over previous years.
      5% is not insignificant - in fact if the rate of increase continues it will soon be much higher.
      Of course, this couldn't possibly be because of social contagion… no, it has to be genetic - with trans genes just randomly appearing in massive numbers in certain limited populations all of a sudden…

      • happydude on 05/02/2023 - 18:52
        +7

        5%? 5 in 100 people are trans?

        Citation needed.

      • [Deactivated] on 05/02/2023 - 18:59
        +5

        In the US the number could be around 5%

        drinking the kool-aid hard. i wonder what your opinion on homosexuality was 15 years ago (and probably still is now)

      • SBOB on 05/02/2023 - 19:17
        +1

        In the US the number could be around 5% - a
        Of course, this couldn't possibly be because of social contagion…

        clearly whatever sources you get your "information" from are likely a prime source of social contagion…..

      • boirganz on 06/02/2023 - 20:20
        +1

        5pc ?

        Mate stop pulling your statistics from YouTube…

      • CowFrogHorse on 07/02/2023 - 11:23

        THis is just an example of American attention grabbing where everyone thinks they are the center of the universe, and any one and everyone is trying to do anything to get noticed.

  • brendanm on 05/02/2023 - 17:15
    +25

    Wow, the pay is different for different jobs, amazing. What's the "hazardous working conditions" gap? The "fatalities in the workplace" gap?

    • ssfps on 07/02/2023 - 03:57

      Came to post something like this, i keep hearing friends talk about massive numbers like 30% or 40% but it's based on what some celebrity said on TV.

      According to 2019 glass door research, it closed slightly from their 2016 published numbers, at 4.9% for the US and 3.1% for Australia. They also say our gap is shrinking slowly, so our gap is even more irrelevant. There are far bigger forces of inequality in Australia than biological or imagined sex.

      Signs show the gender pay gap is narrowing, slightly. Based on over 425,000 salaries shared by full-time U.S. employees on Glassdoor, men earn 21.4 percent higher base pay than women on average (or women earn 79 cents per dollar men earn). However, comparing workers of similar age, education and experience, shrinks the gap to 19.1 percent. Furthermore, after comparing workers with the same job title, employer and location, the gender pay gap in the U.S. falls to 4.9 percent (95.1 cents per dollar).

      https://www.glassdoor.com/research/gender-pay-gap-2019/

    • whatwasherproblem on 06/02/2023 - 14:08
      +3

      The issue there is that the high pay for dangerous work is an incentive. Removing the incentive structure because it hurts other people's feelings is a 'noble' endeavour, but then you're stuck with the issue of how you get people to do the crappy/dangerous jobs that nobody else wants to do. And outside of forcing people to just do it, commissar-style, the best incentive structure humanity has devised thus far has been to take the one half of the human population that don't come pre-equipped with a baby factory, convince them all that they're fungible and that their bank account balance is the only metric they have that anyone cares about, and then sit back and watch as they all fight and die trying to optimise said metric.

      • AustriaBargain on 06/02/2023 - 14:13
        -2

        The birthrate in Australia isn't high enough. If we don't do anything to change that then in a few generations all those "dangerous" jobs and baby factory roles will be taken by immigrants who don't really have any connection or affection for Australian cultural history. Which I don't really care about either tbh, Australian culture is fairly racist and corrupt, it wouldn't bother me if it disappeared and was replaced almost entirely with foreign cultures in 150 years.

        • whatwasherproblem on 06/02/2023 - 14:20
          +2

          The birthrate in Australia isn't high enough. If we don't do anything to change that

          Based and Shinzo Abe-pilled. I can get behind that.

          in a few generations all those "dangerous" jobs and baby factory roles will be taken by immigrants who don't really have any connection or affection for Australian cultural history.

          None of us will be around to see that, but I have high hopes that one of our descendants will be around to argue for a "circa-2000s Australian Voice to Parliament".

          Australian culture is fairly racist and corrupt, it wouldn't bother me if it disappeared and was replaced almost entirely with foreign cultures in 150 years.

          Fair enough. Although that said, you should check out how some of these foreign cultures are themselves with regards to racism and corruption.

          • AustriaBargain on 06/02/2023 - 14:23

            @whatwasherproblem: Well at least the Chinese Australians won't be racist towards themselves, except against their own ethnic minorities.

            • OzBarAnon on 08/02/2023 - 23:18

              @AustriaBargain: Few peoples are racist against themselves, except for white people ironically enough. But your diverse multicultural utopia is not going to happen. Rather, you'll have a fracturing of the country into ethnic enclaves, and possibly even balkanization on a long enough timeline.

  • Gervais fanboy on 05/02/2023 - 17:44
    +7

    Don’t know what so many people here are whinging about

    Imo this post is comedy gold.

    • moar bargains on 06/02/2023 - 13:39
      +4

      Saw the title, reached for the popcorn

  • randomusername2017 on 05/02/2023 - 18:04
    +1

    recent times, we have seen more and more people transition from one gender to another.

    Does it get confusing at family reunions?

  • Barca123 on 05/02/2023 - 18:09
    +5

    Thanks for all your comments, suffice to say I have no idea what I was talking about. I need to get out more lol. Respect to all of you 👍

  • monky on 05/02/2023 - 18:15
    +2

    ITT: Sky News enjoyers taking Ls

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 05/02/2023 - 18:39
    +17

    there are two genders

    you're born a man or a women - you cannot 'change' that - if that offends you i honestly could not care

    if you personally 'feel like' you want to be another gender that is up to you and your personal choice and i respect that but just respect that is the way i see the world

    • Hardlyworkin on 05/02/2023 - 20:01
      +1

      And if you're born intersex?

      • Almost Banned on 05/02/2023 - 20:12
        +23

        People with a legitimate medical condition shouldn't be grouped with people who merely have deviant sexual proclivities or identity confusion.

        • Vanceer on 06/02/2023 - 13:42
          +1

          How is intersex a legitimate medical condition, compared to a male or female, considering the medical industry doesn't consider it so?

          The psychological associations don't consider trans people as "deviant sexual proclivities" either, so what science are you referring to when the science literally says the opposite of your opinion?

          • Almost Banned on 06/02/2023 - 14:41
            +2

            @Vanceer: Huh:

            Intersex is a group of conditions in which there is a discrepancy between the external genitals and the internal genitals (the testes and ovaries).

            The conditions once known under the umbrella terms intersex and hermaphroditism are now generally being called disorders of sex development in medical settings.

            Intersex is a general term used for a variety of conditions in which a person is born with a reproductive or sexual anatomy that doesn’t seem to fit the typical definitions of female or male.

            The science of biology,

            Maybe try getting your information from sources not infected with wokeness.

            • Vanceer on 06/02/2023 - 15:09
              -1

              @Almost Banned: Huh, from the Health Victoria website:

              'People with intersex variations' is an umbrella term for people born with physical, hormonal or genetic features that are neither wholly female nor wholly male; or a combination of female and male; or neither female nor male. Intersex variations are not abnormal and should not be seen as ‘birth defects’; they are natural biological variations and occur in up to 1.7 per cent of all births.

              References:
              Frader, J., Alderson, P., Asch, A., Aspinall, C., Davis, D., Dreger, A., Edwards, J., Feder, E. K., Frank, A., Hedley, L. A., Kittay, E., Marsh, J., Miller, P. S., Mouradian, W., Nelson, H., and Parens, E., 2004, Health care professionals and intersex conditions, Archives of Pediatrics & Adolescent Medicine 158(5):426-428.

              Rosenstreich, G., Comfort, J., and Martin, P., 2011, Primary health care and equity: the case of lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans and intersex Australians, Australian Journal of Primary Health 17(4):302-308.

              Maybe pick sources from the 21st Century.

              • Almost Banned on 06/02/2023 - 17:46
                +1

                @Vanceer: Like I said - try choosing sources not infected by woke ideology.
                My sources were the Intersex society of North America and the National Library of Medicine.
                Plenty of naturally occurring variations exist that have nothing to do with sex, but claiming that they are not medical conditions or that presentations that make up maybe 2% of the population are not abnormal is truly Orwellian.
                Anything that occurs in only 2% of people is, by its very definition, abnormal.

    • monky on 05/02/2023 - 20:15
      -2

      I beg to differ!

      Gender identity is recognized and protected under the Australian Sex Discrimination Act! So unless you want to catch a case for hate crimes, you have the proud privilege of respecting everyone's alternative views of gender ideology, regardless if you want to or not! 👍

      My humble thank you on behalf of the LGBTQI+ community for your support!

      • bobbified on 05/02/2023 - 20:46
        +13

        Gender identity is recognized and protected under the Australian Sex Discrimination Act!

        So? Just because something is written in there, it doesn't mean it's right.

        • siresteelhell on 06/02/2023 - 09:37
          +9

          We are rapidly approaching the time where there will be laws where would don’t have the right to an opinion…

        • monky on 06/02/2023 - 11:25

          How is it not right?

          • brendanm on 06/02/2023 - 19:18
            +6

            @monky: People can't force you to use words that don't make sense, just because a tiny minority has a mental health issue.

            • monky on 07/02/2023 - 16:21

              @brendanm: I agree nobody can force you to say anything you don't feel comfortable with, but that has nothing to do with the question I asked…

              • brendanm on 07/02/2023 - 17:05
                +3

                @monky:

                you have the proud privilege of respecting everyone's alternative views of gender ideology, regardless if you want to or not!

                This is a quote from you above.

                • monky on 07/02/2023 - 20:58
                  -1

                  @brendanm: Respect in regard to the law, learn to read!

                  • brendanm on 07/02/2023 - 21:50

                    @monky: Yes, and you said -

                    How is it not right?

                    In regard to the law, so I then told you -

                    People can't force you to use words that don't make sense, just because a tiny minority has a mental health issue.

                    Which part didn't you understand?

                    • monky on 08/02/2023 - 12:53
                      -1

                      @brendanm: You're conflating…

                      Me asking, "How is it not right?"

                      In response to

                      "Just because something is written in there, it doesn't mean it's right."

                      Where I'm asking how having laws to protect people isn't right?

                      With an off-topic (and not asked for) comment about your freedom of expression, with a good helping of othering, and an ignorant assertion that individuals who don't agree with you are mentally ill: A textbook response for terminally-online conservative narcissists who don't think about issues further than the talking points their echo-chamber social circles parrot at each other day after day.

                      It sounds like you feel personally attacked with the prospect of having to use different pronouns and I get it, accepting change is hard; but ultimately, nobody is forcing you to be vocal about your support of trans and non-binary individuals; they are however expecting you to not break the law by discriminating against, maliciously mis-gendering, or verbally/physically abusing them.

                      What you actually seem to have an issue with is the government recognizing trans and non-binary people as citizens with rights, not having your speech limited in the very rare scenario (even you said it's a "tiny minority") where you have to use a different pronoun to refer to someone when kindly asked to?

                      My original point: You are respecting alternative gender ideologies simply by not breaking any sex and gender discrimination laws in the country you live in.

                      Hope this silly little monkey helped you understand, have a nice day!! ooh ooh ahh ahh!!! 🐒🍌

                      • brendanm on 08/02/2023 - 14:36
                        +1

                        @monky:

                        Where I'm asking how having laws to protect people isn't right?

                        Being forced to use the incorrect words isn't "protecting people". It's lunacy.

                        individuals who don't agree with you are mentally ill

                        Body dysmorphic disorder is literally a mental illness.

                        It sounds like you feel personally attacked with the prospect of having to use different pronouns

                        I'm not attacked, I simply won't be doing it. Same as I wouldn't tell an anorexic person they are healthy, or a schizophrenic that I can also hear the voices they may hear. I won't play pretend with adults.

                        You can pretend to be fairykin, or a woman, or a man, or wolfkin, or any other ridiculous thing you want, just don't expect others to indulge your fantasies.

                        What you actually seem to have an issue with is the government recognizing trans and non-binary people as citizens with rights

                        I actually care more about the rights of the majority to not have to pander to this nonsense.

                        • monky on 08/02/2023 - 16:34

                          @brendanm: Very cool, just don't break the law fighting for the minority opinion on this issue.

                          Simple as that: Live in Australia, you follow the law.

                          • brendanm on 08/02/2023 - 17:14

                            @monky:

                            minority opinion

                            Sorry mate, it you leave twitter and Reddit, it's the majority opinion.

                            Simple as that: Live in Australia, you follow the law

                            I seriously doubt there is any law that requires me to call a man a woman, however if there is, I won't be following it.

                            • monky on 08/02/2023 - 17:26

                              @brendanm: Brainlet-level strawmanning 💤

                              • brendanm on 08/02/2023 - 18:23
                                -1

                                @monky: Can't tell if you are being obtuse, or simply parroting "strawman" without actually understanding it's meaning.

                      • Gnostikos on 08/02/2023 - 14:53

                        @monky:

                        Hope this silly little monkey helped you understand, have a nice day!! ooh ooh ahh ahh!!! 🐒🍌

                        Your "safe space" is inside you, precious.

                        You don't get to dictate to the entire world that everyone has to cater to your fragile mental state.

                        • monky on 08/02/2023 - 16:37

                          @Gnostikos: Grow up, little keyboard warrior: It's the law.

                          • Gnostikos on 08/02/2023 - 20:19
                            -1

                            @monky: Uh oh! That's minus -100 diversity/inclusivity points for you comrade, due to the usage of "little" (offensive to dwarves), "keyboard warrior" (promotion of violence/war/toxic masculinity), "law" (promotion of law enforcement/police brutality/racial profiling/oppression of minorities) AND assuming my pronouns (I prefer to identify as a keyboard warrior-monk or Cyber-Templar, thank you very much).

                            Report to your nearest re-education centre to re-examine your thought crimes and personal privilege and learn how to function in our intersectional, diverse, gender-fluid, non-binary, multicultural, body positive, LGBTQI+123=666, PoC-affirming socialist utopian road to hell.

    • Vanceer on 06/02/2023 - 13:45
      +6

      People are born male, female or intersex. Basic biology 101 there.
      There are more than two genders, social science 101 again there.

      If you personally "feel like" you want to be called Trying2SaveABuck that is up to you and your personal choice and I respect that but just respect that the way I see the world is by you being called Gomer. Sorry Gomer, that's just how it is.

      • Baysew on 06/02/2023 - 15:03

        Jim Nabors says that name is already taken.

    • Miss B on 07/02/2023 - 22:09

      As long as you respect whatever gender people assign to you too.

  • boomramada on 05/02/2023 - 19:55

    In recent times, we have seen more and more people transition from one gender to another.

    I dont understand how this relate to gender gap, this only make sense if all females becoming a male, what about other way around?

  • Brian McGee on 05/02/2023 - 19:58
    +22

    Gender pay gap is a myth.

    • Motek Benzona on 05/02/2023 - 20:17
      +7

      Like more than two genders..total fantasy

  • pegaxs on 05/02/2023 - 20:25
    +16

    The solution is for women to take on roles that's are typically male dominated… You can't be a teacher's assistant or a child care worker and expect plumber or coal miner money.

    • kanmen on 05/02/2023 - 20:42
      -8

      Why not? Are those roles not as challenging, taxing or worthy?

      • Almost Banned on 05/02/2023 - 20:47
        +15

        Well, it depends on what you mean by challenging or taxing.
        I can tell you that you are much more likely to die on the job down a mine than in a childcare centre.
        I think that is 'worth' compensation, don't you?

      • Mike88 on 05/02/2023 - 20:51
        +10

        It doesn’t matter how worthy/challenging you think a job is. It comes down to how replaceable you are.

      • pegaxs on 06/02/2023 - 16:34
        +8

        Are those roles not as challenging, taxing or worthy?

        LOL… One is working in hot, dusty, dirty conditions around machines that could maim, kill or rip you to pieces. The other job is having your arm up to the armpit in sewage all day, pulling shit (literally) out of pipes risking infection, or working with tools and machines that cut, slice and mince humans… Both of these jobs are 24hr, on call/call out or rotating shifts, sometimes a long way from home (fly in/fly out) with shifts lasting anywhere from 10 to 16 hours.

        The others are working with kids that at best, give you a headache frim their shenanigans and is usually Monday to Friday, 6 hours a day with 12+ weeks of "school holidays" and usually in quiet, air conditioned buildings away from machines and dangerous tools…

        But yeah, sure, childcare workers should get paid the same as mine workers, because, you know… "gender wage gap…"

        • kanmen on 06/02/2023 - 22:23
          -4

          No they should get paid more because they're not just 'childcare workers,' they are educating our children in their most phase of life.

          I doubt you'd last an hour if you had to look after and educate 4 babies or 12 toddlers or up to 30 school age children by yourself. They are liable for these children's lives and responsible for educating the next generation- it's not the same as being a plumber or a coal miner but their roles are just as worthy or valuable.

          People often speak about industries like Early Childhood Education and Teaching as if they're easy, but I doubt most would be able to do it even for a day, especially if they don't even know what it entails.

          • pegaxs on 07/02/2023 - 10:20
            +4

            @kanmen:

            I doubt you'd last an hour if you had to look after and educate 4 babies or 12 toddlers or up to 30 school age children by yourself

            I do volunteer work at my local school, I work in and around a lot of kids with learning difficulties or from low socioeconomic backgrounds, so cry me a river on that nugget you shared.

            They are liable for these children's lives…

            What about pilots, bus driver, train drivers, tram drivers. Yeah, gotta look after those kids… Way more stressful for a childcare worker at midday nap time…

            People often speak about industries like Early Childhood Education and Teaching as if they're easy…

            Because it is. Compared to ripping the gearbox out of a Kenworth on the side of a highway or having to change the blower fan hydraulic hoses on a bulldozer at sub zero temps in the mud at 3am or guiding a longwall miner undergound in the heat in near darkness.

            But I guess you are right, "this" is every bit as hard as this, this, this or this and childcare workers deserve the same rate of pay as any of these… because it's "hard work" being a childcare worker… for 4~6 hours a day, 5 days a week, weekends off, permanent day shifts with 12+ weeks of the year off…

            I love teachers and respect the work that they do, but to say they are on the same level as any of my examples above is just a sign of you having your head stuck in the ground. The wage gap here is based on risk to life and injury, not based on what genitals you have in your underpants. Just as men can be child care workers, women can also become miners, construction workers, electricians, plumbers. The only thing stopping them is they want the big money, but want to work the cushy jobs to get it and that just isn't how it works.

          • bobbified on 07/02/2023 - 13:09

            @kanmen:

            No they should get paid more because they're not just 'childcare workers,' they are educating our children in their most phase of life.

            And if they were to be paid more, how much would you be willing to pay for childcare? I don't have kids myself, but I hear lots of people complain about how expensive it is as it is.

          • Gnostikos on 07/02/2023 - 18:09
            +1

            @kanmen:

            They are liable for these children's lives and responsible for educating the next generation-

            I had to laugh your assertion that childcare workers are "educating the next generation" as if they're running Olympic-style training camps with teams of scientists mass-producing high-IQ, child prodigy toddlers like it's Ivan Drago's training regime from Rocky IV or something.

            Having been to my fair share of childcare centres now, as I work for a company that supports a whole network of them amongst other businesses, and having seen first-hand the level of "education" being provided, they are not doing anything close to shaping a new, capable generation of individuals who will become upstanding, productive members of society and actually effect meaningful change on some level in their lives.

            They're barely teaching them special needs-level arithmetic or reading/writing skills, children are repeatedly sent back to their parents for the slightest of infractions when staff arbitrarily deem some children too "difficult" and I'd also seriously question the assertion that childcare workers do a good job of looking after children's health and wellbeing.

            Paying adolescent girls who are barely out of high school a minimum wage to handle armies of toddlers in a chronically understaffed industry is not a recipe for providing top-notch care nor for producing well-behaved, educated and developmentally-sound children.

            • [Deactivated] on 07/02/2023 - 18:17

              @Gnostikos:

              Paying adolescent girls who are barely out of high school a minimum wage to handle armies of toddlers in a chronically understaffed industry is not a recipe for providing top-notch care nor for producing well-behaved, educated and developmentally-sound children.

              Oh, the irony!

              • Gnostikos on 07/02/2023 - 18:30

                @[Deactivated]: Yeah it's kind of like expecting you to contribute anything more than throwaway, one-liner comments that add absolutely nothing of value to a discussion. It's just a statistical impossibility.

                And no genius, this doesn't mean that childcare workers should be paid anywhere close to what men in dangerous professions earn but that was a hilarious attempt at a "gotcha" moment that never actually happened except in your deluded mind.

                I'm simply saying that hiring the blind to lead the deaf is terrible policy in any industry.

                • [Deactivated] on 07/02/2023 - 18:35

                  @Gnostikos: If only you concentrated half as much on the discussion at hand rather than using all of your 'scrabble' words

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