Got Two Fines - What Are My Chances of Fighting?

Lpewpewstar on 15/02/2023 - 22:57
Last edited 16/02/2023 - 08:40 by 1 other user

Hi OzBargain,

I just got two tickets just now - one for doing an illegal U-turn and the other for not stopping at a stop sign.

So what happened was:

I missed a right turn at a T-junction, so I did a U-turn at the next street. This is where.

At this point, a police car starts flashing, and I panic and don't stop at a stop sign to turn left, not wanting to block any traffic. (It was a narrow road)

So I get two tickets; the officer also said that I can only do a U-turn where it says I can.

What are my chances of sucessfully fighting the two tickets? Any help would be appreciated.

Automotive Fines

Comments

  • randomusername2017 on 15/02/2023 - 23:01
    +22

    🍿

  • c00per on 15/02/2023 - 23:02
    +5

    Considering it is a double line, I don't like your chances on the u-turn (you could try argue it was broken)… as for the Stop sign, I'm not sure why you panicked, it is your responsibly to stop there, even if you hold up traffic.

    I'd just pay it and think of it as a lesson learnt… sorry this happened to you!

    Adding an edit - I can understand the panic considering the situation, however, I feel that the officer was a little harsh in enforcing both tickets (assuming you took responsibly and were respectful).

    • pewpewstar on 15/02/2023 - 23:15

      Yes, the stop sign I can see (although if it hadn't been for him,… argh whatever) but the U-turn? I don't know…

      And judging from the responses it looks like my chances aren't that good haha.

      • brendanm on 16/02/2023 - 09:47
        +3

        if it hadn't been for him

        Take some personal responsibility. He pulled you over because you broke the law, then you chose to run a stop sign with a cop following you 🤦‍♂️

        • randomusername2017 on 16/02/2023 - 10:22

          run a stop sign with a cop following you

          Impressive achievement .. lucky they put the phone down

  • deveshwar0 on 15/02/2023 - 23:02

    Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
    Grabs popcorn too!

  • askbargain on 15/02/2023 - 23:03
    +1

    I panic and don't stop at a stop sign

    lmao

  • SF3 on 15/02/2023 - 23:08
    +1

    What are my chances of sucessfully fighting the two tickets?

    A good chance you'll panic.

  • Doyen on 15/02/2023 - 23:08
    +5

    This is Serious. Greg! The Stop Sign

  • Bafranz on 15/02/2023 - 23:11
    +1

    What state OP? Just want to add up the cost/demerit points

    • pewpewstar on 15/02/2023 - 23:11

      NSW - apparently 5 points + over $500 in fines

      • [Deactivated] on 16/02/2023 - 10:46

        lol

        Do you even drive?

  • foxmulder on 15/02/2023 - 23:19

    I notice a lot of people U turn on double/solid lines or in a traffic light and do not stop in stop sign.

    • dtxau on 16/02/2023 - 13:04

      But don't get caught!!

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 15/02/2023 - 23:20

    Pay up, op.

  • Euphemistic on 15/02/2023 - 23:27
    +1

    Image isn’t obvious. Which way we’re you headed, where’s the stop sign?

    • jv on 15/02/2023 - 23:54

      where’s the stop sign?

      At the intersection.

      • Euphemistic on 16/02/2023 - 06:25

        Where? I don’t see any stop line either.

        • randomusername2017 on 16/02/2023 - 07:30

          At the T-junction…
          Missed turn..missed pic too ….

        • ThithLord on 16/02/2023 - 11:45

          I think this is what route OP took. I circled the stop sign, apologies for not cropping the image

          • randomusername2017 on 16/02/2023 - 12:16

            @ThithLord: Strange place/orientation for a stop sign.

            • ESEMCE on 16/02/2023 - 12:23

              @randomusername2017: No.
              The U turn occurred here, but there is no stop sign there.

              The Stop sign is behind the camera at a completely different Intersection (ie the one that the OP originally missed turning onto)

              (weird intersection if OP missed a right turn there, but the top of the T has the Stop Sign, but I can think of one such intersection with the same arrangement.)

          • Euphemistic on 16/02/2023 - 20:24
            +2

            @ThithLord: That’s a diamond shape, not a stop sign.

  • djsweet on 15/02/2023 - 23:28
    +1

    I thought you could do u-turn unless you have to cross double unbroken lines (looks like you didn’t) or there is a no uturn sign. Guess the cop would know better though

  • bargaino on 15/02/2023 - 23:50

    What is the NSW rule you supposedly broke for the U-turn?
    I don't think that would be illegal here in WA.

      • ragrum on 16/02/2023 - 02:42
        +2

        If this is what OP did, then I'm not sure which of those rules it would have broken, given that the double lines were broken at that point, but I don't see any stop signs there, so maybe I've misunderstood.

        • kerfuffle on 16/02/2023 - 02:48
          +1

          OP probably drove poorly and did his U-turn across double unbroken lines rather than turning right, doing a three turn in the street, and getting out to go back to the turn they missed.

        • ESEMCE on 16/02/2023 - 09:08
          +1

          Agreed. There is no line at all, let alone a broken line, at the intersection. Therefore assuming the turn occurred at the intersection, then there is nothing illegal about the U turn.

          Cop has NFI if he did indeed state you "can only do a U-turn where it says I can". That would restrict U turns to a handful of situations nationwide!

          • kerfuffle on 16/02/2023 - 10:26

            @ESEMCE:

            U turns to a handful of situations nationwide

            U-turn rules vary by state and are not nationwide.

            • ESEMCE on 16/02/2023 - 10:41

              @kerfuffle: And your point is?
              My point is that such a rule is nonsensical. I don't believe it exists anywhere for that reason.

              In NSW there is no such requirement. Per link above

              • randomusername2017 on 16/02/2023 - 11:29

                @ESEMCE: Did the op get done for location or poor execution of manoeuvre …

                • ESEMCE on 16/02/2023 - 11:49

                  @randomusername2017: Allegedly location if it is to be believed that the cop said you "can only do a U-turn where it says I can"

  • jv on 15/02/2023 - 23:54
    +1

    What colour was your car?

    • foxmulder on 15/02/2023 - 23:54

      jv is expecting a hot red :)

  • Empharand on 16/02/2023 - 00:00
    +2

    So you did a U-turn over double broken white-lines? That's not good.
    There's no way you're getting out of that one unless you can justify & provide proof in court that it was an emergency (Which it wasn't by the sounds of it)

    As for the stop sign, panicking because there's a cop behind you doesn't justify not abiding by said stop sign. You can run a stop sign (safely) if the CFA or an Ambo was behind you with their lights on so you don't block them from getting to their emergency.

    You can fight both fines in court if you wish but there's a 95% chance you will lose and will likely walk out of that court hearing with a probation order or something in addition to your fines

    I guess the cop could have been a little more lenient regarding the stop sign and gave you a warning instead provided it was safe to do so and you didn't pull out in front of anyone in doing so (eg. put it down as a teaching moment) but it's their discretion. That's just my opinion.

    The fact that you're easily panicked on the road isn't something to be proud of. I think you need to brush up on your driving training because you need to ask yourself what would happen if you lose control of your vehicle in wet weather, you were being tailgated and abused by an a-hole (etc etc) - By the sounds of it you will most definitely panic and likely do something stupid

    • Kremleen on 16/02/2023 - 14:29
      +1

      Could you quote me the NSW rule where doing U turn at broken double white lines is illegal?

      Assuming OP drove to the side street and do a U-turn there, it would not have been illegal.

      I live in VIC but this should be the rules for U turns in NSW

  • oscargamer on 16/02/2023 - 08:09
    +1

    Roll the dice on the stop sign

    Pay the U turn

    • Bargainitis on 16/02/2023 - 09:40

      agree with this.

      Take it to court and accept the U-turn but appeal the stop sign.

      Just say you panicked and wanted to pull over ASAP for the police but in that chaotic moment, miss the stop sign.

      You'll probably still cop both but who knows, depends on the judge that day.

    • ThithLord on 16/02/2023 - 11:50
      +1

      OP definitely disobeyed the stop sign - the U-turn was legit, though.

      You must not make a U-turn:

      at intersections without traffic lights where there’s a ‘No U-turn’ sign
      at intersections with traffic lights, unless there’s a ‘U-turn permitted’ sign
      across a single unbroken dividing line or double unbroken dividing line
      across double dividing lines with an unbroken line closer to you
      on motorways and freeways.

      None of the above apply to OP as they were turning right at an intersection through a break in the double-dividing lines.

      • Bargainitis on 16/02/2023 - 13:01

        Hey lets just clarify a few things first:

        1) according to OP's picture, he missed that right turn (both sides appear to be double dividing lines) so he then made a U-turn on what I assume is double dividing lines. How would that U-turn be legit?

        2) if what you are saying is true (which I doubt), the OP can appeal both as the police made an incorrect pull-over so him running the stop sign would never have happened… But I don't think thats right. I've re-read OP's post and I think you've misunderstood.

        • ESEMCE on 16/02/2023 - 13:13

          I read it that the U turn was performed at the photographed street.

          Either way, the OP is clear from OP that the U Turn was performed at another intersection "U-turn at the next street", so very likely that it was legal assuming all streets have the break in the double line per the photo.
          I can't see where you can come to a conclusion that the U-Turn was illegal given the information provided.

          • Bargainitis on 16/02/2023 - 13:41

            @ESEMCE: Ok I've just read the OP's post with your overlay (which must be what ThithLord was getting at).

            If thats indeed what happened, then I stand corrected, there is indeed a good chance that OP is in the right here. I just assumed that OP made a U-turn over those double lines.

            Not sure why OP hasn't come back to respond…some good advice here.

            If the U-turn was legal, OP also has the right to contest the no stopping at Stop sign as the police should not have pulled him over in begin with, resulting in the second infringement.

            Plot thickens

            • ThithLord on 16/02/2023 - 13:52

              @Bargainitis: Yep I could have interpreted OP wrong.

              If the U-turn was legal, OP also has the right to contest the no stopping at Stop sign as the police should not have pulled him over in begin with, resulting in the second infringement.

              Dunno if it works like that in Australia

              ETA I hope the U-Turn is legal cos I use that manoeuvre all the time lol

  • payless69 on 16/02/2023 - 08:27
    -4

    Tell the cop that you saved his / her life.
    You belonged to a pork free religion……

  • singlemalt72 on 16/02/2023 - 08:37
    +2

    So you broke two laws in front of the cops, who cited you.

    Chances, Zero.

  • JimmyF on 16/02/2023 - 08:56

    What are my chances of sucessfully fighting the two tickets? Any help would be appreciated.

    On what grounds will you be 'fighting' it? As in, why do you think you should have been able to break the law in these two cases?

    As I see it, you did break the law twice, in front of a police officer without a valid reason. SopPay the fine and move on.

    the officer also said that I can only do a U-turn where it says I can.

    This is one road rule I do hate, the road laws are not standardised. In VIC you can do a U turn at any intersection unless signed otherwise, in some other states it is the reverse!

    The same for passing a police car with flashing lights, different speeds depending on the state! Its a mess.

  • freefall101 on 16/02/2023 - 09:54

    Tell them that you are a sovereign citizen and that they have no right to fine you, because you are your own country and in your country what you did was legal.

    To fight a fine you actually need a reason for why you shouldn't be fined, that you don't know the road rules and you apparently panic while driving is the opposite of a good argument. Imagine if you panicked and didn't see a pedestrian or another car while running the stop sign.

  • kiwiyonip on 16/02/2023 - 09:59
    -1

    Australian laws are pretty tough and there's always a law on just about anything to get money from tax payer.

    At this point, you'll get a life sentence or a non-parole period of 20 years if you don't pay up.

    I got fined $143 for parking my car a couple of minutes, facing the direction of traffic on a lonely, empty road, it just so happened the darn council police was around.

  • randomusername2017 on 16/02/2023 - 10:23

    As wordy as the opening post is… Still feels like there's quite a few details yet to be disclosed..

  • Kremleen on 16/02/2023 - 14:32

    Could anyone from NSW tell me why what OP did was illegal? Broken double white lines, no "U turn not permitted" at intersection and side street?

  • Jono05 on 16/02/2023 - 15:31
    +1

    When making a U-turn, you must:
    • have a clear view of approaching traffic

    OP made U turn at top of a hill.

    • ESEMCE on 16/02/2023 - 16:07

      You can see the car halfway down the hill and the house at the bottom of the hill quite easily.
      I don't think visibility is an issue. I think this is just a case of a Wide angle lens making the hill look steeper than reality.

      • Jono05 on 17/02/2023 - 12:28

        Maybe so but the cop might have thought otherwise. That’s the only thing I can think of unless OP crossed the double lines.

  • ozwog05 on 16/02/2023 - 17:11

    Two shouldn't be too bad, it's Five for Fighting.

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join