My teenage son is interested in pursuing a career in trades. He wants to get into building and construction industry.
I am a bit apprehensive about his choice as there is almost daily news of a building company collapsing. I am also not from this background. Just wanted to see what the fellow OzBargainers think about a career in trades.
He is more inclined towards carpentry.
If my teens were interested in a versatile trade like carpentry I would be extremely encouraging. I’m not sure what the concern is - occasionally employers go out of business in all industries.
There are many, many jobs in carpentry and no indication that will change.
Don't get me wrong, I am fully supportive of his choice but my concerns are basically fear of the unknown. No one in my family is from trades background and this is a first. That's the only reason for my concerns I think.
@RSmith: Short of going into nursing I can't think of a more secure job. The companies going bust are due to financial mismanagement, there's no lack of work on the horizon (we already have a shortage of houses and a growing population) and there's definitely a shortage of people going into it. Can't be offshored, can't be automated (at least not in the next couple of decades), I'd feel safer being an carpenter than where I am now (accounting/IT).
Hardest part is getting started, if he gets past that he'll be fine. Just important to stay up to date on skills after that, but that's true of any job.
Carpentry is great, but you also want to be thinking about where you'll be in 20 years. Many carpenters end up as builders managing house construction or forman on big commercial construction sites or owning their own company subcontracting on big jobs.
That's the plan. So finish Cert 3 (apprenticeship) and then maybe do Cert 4.
@RSmith: Every chippy I know personally who did a trade and then worked for themselves is now at the mines as a Maintenance Crew member.
Why? They get paid more and don't have to deal with the clients that drove them insane
I did it in my 20th and I can say for sure it's really hard work. Could not do it after 5 years
He is more inclined towards carpentry.
My BIL is a carpenter. Started his trade at 16. He recently "retired" and closed his company at 66.
He started his Master Builders course age 19. Started his own building company with a mate age 22. Went out on his own at 26.
He's built houses up to $5m.
He's never been out of work but occasionally things have been slow.
Carpentry is a great trade as is electrician and plumber.
Personally, I did a motor mechs trade. Did my Mech Eng Associate Diploma & MechTech Cert. Got into various engineering related jobs and eventually got paid as a professional engineer.
Trades are a great basis for an ongoing career or as a basis for other jobs.
This is like asking about a career with computers, incredibly broad varying from a solo sparky installing PowerPoints to a high voltage linesman hanging off a helicopter, to a tiler on their knees all day to a stonemason 3 stories up restoring 100yro decorations.
Most trades pay well, many allow you to work for yourself, a few destroy your body, and a small number are impacted by building company collapses.
Yeah, it's worth taking note of the health implications. Cutting a lot of high silica material (manufactured stone, sandstone, or concrete) can cause lung cancer. Wood dust does the same to a much lesser degree. Flooring ruins your back and knees. Electrical and plumbing aren't as hard on your body and pay well.
Electrical and plumbing aren't as hard on your body and pay well.
Shouldn't be surprising - electrical and plumbing require the most knowledge and intelligence, have the biggest liability / responsibility…etc. Also requires the most training.
Plumbing has the highest amount of deaths
Plumbing can be a shitty job
Is that you Kenny???
YES YES YES.
If he likes being outside, wants to earn a metric sh!t ton of money using 70% hands and 30% brain.
He will be swamped with half hot women, and gets to drive a ute like a manic without being judged.
Then he can upskill to become a builder, work in a capital city, earn an absolute fortune whilst churning out complete crap with limited liability.
The builders going bankrupt didn't have good enough lawyers, or are getting divorced and hiding their assets.
Or hopefully becomes one of those tradies that use 70% brain.
That's an oxymoron
drive a ute
Gotta be a fully blacked out, lift kit equipped ford raptor gen 2
lift kit equipped ford raptor gen 2
with ARB 4x4 accessories + headlamps that will blind the sh*t out of you.
You had me at half hour woman….lol
Definitely worth pursuing, but he'll need to decide if he wants to be the sunburnt hungover tradie rocking up 30 mins late every morning, smashing a servo pie and dare ice coffee, pissing off to the pokies at lunch, then hitting the beers at 3pm each day, or wants to make awesome money, get off the tools and make even more money before 40.
Many trades are excellent. Just stay away from polishing stone benchtops. Also, make sure he takes care of his own safety. Employers have a duty of care, but they don't all exercise it diligently.
stone benchtops
Can't stress this enough, I like to think there is more regulation and common sense regarding Silicosis and also the other big one, Asbestos these days but there is still a big 'she'll be right' attitude at all levels I hear and thats a big worry.
polishing stone benchtops
Or use BettaStone. Made from recycled glass. No silicosis issues.
This is good news!
The totality of the economy, and every industry/sector individually, is subject to cyclical movements such as that in the building industry currently. It doesn't mean that a given occupation is necessarily "good or bad" over a career.
Many building companies simply don't keep any capital in the business, so when sales drop, they don't have the buffer to ride it out. While this causes frictions for individual trades, at an individual level they can typically move on to the next outfit quite quickly.
Even unskilled trades like garden maintenance and cleaning pay very well with heaps of work. I wouldn't want to do any trade job full time as they are hard on the body, but they can give you a good work/life balance and the work is far more rewarding than sitting in an office all day taking orders and waiting for a heart attack to happen.
unskilled trades
Can confirm, I had quotes to do a low level garden reno (trim back a bunch of bushes, de-weed about 30SQM area etc) and the cheapest I found was $60/hour ..
To the guy's credit, he did a pretty good job and provided a tax invoice.
That's cheap!
Hmmmm…..
That's super cheap. Most will not do that kind of work on an hourly rate, they will quote it. Lawn mower guys typically work off a figure of $100 per hour per man. It takes a lot of work to get enough clients and structure a tight run, but you can do very well.
$60 an hour is the minimum anyone should be charging for gardening/lawn mowing. Wouldn't be worth the effort if charging any less due to the cost of commercial tools, insurance, vehicle, travel time, super, tax, non billable hours etc.
dang prob would explain why he aint in the game no more
because he was supposed to come back for round 2 to apply and spread out the mulch lol
Lawn mower guys typically work off a figure of $100 per hour per man
I always thought lawnmower only gigs would be a bit pricier as it could generally be knocked over pretty quick and have to factor in the time it takes to get to and from jobs.
Should also mention the $60/hr guy was really only on site for about 5 hours but charged 9.
I didnt really mind as the job was completed well but technically I would say its not really $60/hr haha
$60 an hour is the minimum anyone should be charging for gardening/lawn mowing. Wouldn't be worth the effort if charging any less due to the cost of commercial tools, insurance, vehicle, travel time, super, tax, non billable hours etc.
Hire a local uni student (or even high school student) for $35 an hour. You will have to provide the tools and then set them loose…
To the guy's credit, he did a pretty good job and provided a tax invoice.
I wonder if he runs 2 sets of books. :)
well it was just generated in excel it looks like so maybe :)
far more rewarding than sitting in an office all day taking orders
So tradies on a building site aren't taking orders from their foreman? Come on.
Don't agree with this also
Only for a few years
Smart ones will get a few years experience then go out on their own
Why are some building companies collapsing? Isn't that because of increasing cost of material and increasing cost to hire workers, who are charging more because of long queue of jobs waiting to be done? All my friends in construction have been very busy over the last 2 years. Companies might go out of business, most tradies have no problem finding the next gig quickly.
most tradies have no problem finding the next gig quickly.
It's more like when contractors/subbies get stiffed on invoices by the builders.. thats when it all falls to pieces.
Other than increasing costs of materials, contractors downstream getting stiffed, etc it is also the general mentality of the building industry to have phoenix companies. Well if things are not going well, just shut down and reopen, reset the books. It has a big flow on effect to the entire industry.
phoenix
I think there is a little more regulation in this now but yes this is also a big problem and almost laughed off with a 'hey what are you going to do' by many in the game.
Certified builders earn a lot!
In my next life I will be in Trades industry
How long would that take though
As long as your kid has a bit of a thick skin it should be fine.
Bullying, peer pressure, etc is still relevant especially as an apprentice and doesnt ever really go away as the nature of the job has a new site/ new trades or contractors to have to work together with. Mental health for tradies while recently has really had some attention really needs more work imo.
There is also the whole sun exposure thing too (heat stroke, sunburn and cancer etc)
Isn't your father a brickie?
Nothing wrong with a trade. Everyone knows how hard it is to get a tradie to come and do small jobs, because they have too many bigger fish to fry. Demand is much higher than supply, so potential income is stupid. That said, probably avoid ones that destroy your body.
If you live in QLD, take a drive through Raby Bay (richy area) and see all the tradie utes parked out front. This country is made for tradies - they get half their money tax free (cashies) and can claim just about everything they use (cars, clothes, tools, etc.) on tax. When office workers have almost nothing to claim and are paying crazy amounts of tax each year, the tradie life looks very attractive. There is also endless work for them at the moment and they can pick their jobs. They also get a lot more diversity in their work and can sometimes set their own hours. I am sure summer in Qld is a bitch to work outside so there is that.
they get half their money tax free (cashies)
Know and work with a lot of tradies - you need to be upfront with the fact that most tradies are not doing domestic "cash jobs" work. It's probably like < 25% of tradies. The vast majority do commercial and industrial work, and are either contractors or salaried employees.
Trust me, you're not doing "cash jobs" on mine sites for BHP (as an example).
Is a Career in Trades Worth Pursuing?
Can't see this being outsourced to India or Indonesia any time soon or replaced by AI, so yes.
They just bring people in from overseas to do the work here.
They'll need a work visa and any required VBA registrations.
Only to be compliant. Nothing stops them coming on a tourist/visiting visa and working for cash.
Steer clear of low skilled trades like plasterers, painters, brickies, scaffolders and concreters
Does he want the chance to earn cashies, obviously electricians, plumbers, mechanic, fridge techs, chipies.
Otherwise its higher skilled specialists like fabricators, boilermakers, fitters, estimators, etc.
Brick layers are getting like $4 per brick now. Surely the money is there
ChatGPT is about to render a lot of creative/computer based roles redundant. Trades will stay strong.
Yep it's a big concern for me, already work seems to be dropping off. A mowing and property maintenance business will probably be my next move as i've done it off and on and it's good rewarding work which pays well.
A mowing and property maintenance business will probably be my next move as i've done it off and on and it's good rewarding work which pays well.
Until people start buying robotic lawnmowers…(which already exist FYI and do a reasonable job).
I know they exist but they don't do a great job at all IMO and many people greatly value a professionally edged and maintained lawn. Plus you can upsell them other services. It's a good industry with low barrier to entry but plenty of potential.
It's a good industry with low barrier to entry but plenty of potential.
You reckon? I just see more and more high density living (e.g. townhouses) with less land, and hence, smaller lawns. I remember when growing up on a large block, mowing the lawn was a half-day thing on a weekend, now it's something I can get done in an 1 - 2 hours at my place, and I have mates living in high density living where it takes then 20 mins to mow their nature strip and small outdoor sitting area.
AI will drive innovation into robotics and iot thus mechanise many other tasks and industries eventually. The point is it has not right now and there is still some time until that happens.
IT jobs are slowly dying due to stress and no work-life family balance.
Trade industry is great, not at the moment maybe but when the economy is stable enough jobs are abundant, so many houses to fix and build, this country has more buyers than sellers.
That's not true, my brother works in IT before and gets around 180k
ChatGPT is about to render a lot of creative/computer based roles redundant.
Yep there's loads of demand for software that doesn't work and awful art/music/film 😂
What other options he got?
If you can basically get free TAFE and can stick with it.
He doesn't even need to do big jobs. He just needs a constant flow of jobs. Being a carpenter, fix some kitchen cabinets and doors etc. Plenty of money in small jobs.
Builders going out of business. That is a whole different problem. Basically a summary of what happened.
1. Accepted too many jobs on fixed price contracts. When you come to starting it after 12 months cost of labour and materials gone up (even 3% inflation you are stuffed)
2. Builders are bad with cashflow (and finances in general). Either they quote too high to try to catch big fish or end up quoting too low. Paying $80k of working capital to buy that new ute wasn't such a good idea after all.
3. Builders are bad at taking advice. Their trade association (MBA/HIA) would have done economic updates and given them a heads up.
Most important thing for your kid to learn is cash flow. If you are short on cash you are going under. You can't file your tax return early and get your refund if you run out of money on the 1st of April.
Don't think he is looking at any other options at the moment. He did his white card training in order to get some work in the construction… However, having a qualification like carpentry will be more useful in the long run.
He has enrolled in free Tafe (Cert 2 in building and construction). He is there as a jobsvic student so hopefully he can get apprenticeship after the completion of Cert 2. Apprenticeship will be a part of Cert 3 and will take just over 3 years to complete.
No problems.
Apprenticeship will be a part of Cert 3 and will take just over 3 years to complete
He is rolling. Tell him he can always think about it along the way if it is for him and explore options. His got 30 years of work in front of him (unless he strikes some really good luck). Got to be happy with what you choose.
I'm coming upon my middle age and I got a professional job. Got 2 master degrees. Got enough super to retire now (unfortunately it is locked up for a few more decades). Even I'm looking for something to keep the brain ticking over. Lucky the Vic government will now fund for free TAFE those who have high degrees (like bachelors) so I might do a Cert IV in Cyber Security for the fun of it. Never know, you might see me pool side with cold drink and doing my part time job as Cyber consultant until I can touch my super.
Most people will have two or more career changes.
Hopefully your son has a general skill set.
Do it. Just don't get too big too quickly. Watch for variations and only complete what has been charged. Anything extra must be billed. It's scary but the rewards outweigh that (operating your own business).
mate, companies everywhere collapse every day. I work in IT and a number of those companies on my resume no longer exist, and those that do have been through a few rounds of redundancy.
I’d be absolutely stoked if my kid showed an interest in ANY career path, let alone a trade. Hard to imagine a world any time soon where carpentry skills are not desirable
Don’t know where you are but mines in WA are screaming for apprentices and tradies
Paying $50/hr entry level. You work hard but are rewards well. 12.5 hr days. I’m sure you can do the maths
Look in the Pilbara region
$50 an hour for entry???? How much they pay an hour after entry then??????
Close to 75 to 85 for fifo mining gigs, but generally, that is flat rate, so not as good as it seems. I get around the same if not more in Sydney, without doing 3.1 rosters in Perth.
Im an industrial sparkie in NSW. Feel free to ask me any questions in regards to the electrical trade.
The automotive mechanic industry is currently in a crisis. Best time to do an automotive trade course and demand whatever salary you want and pick where ever you want to work.
I thought tradies getting good money.
Especially the experienced ones. Expensive as hell.
Most of them go bust not because of revenue problem it is because:
Encourage and support him carpentry is a good trade theres that many kids out there who dont have any ambition or dont know what they want to do.
Building businesses going bust is known as Phoenixing and is very common in the industry.
The tradies running these businesses ensure they draw every cent of revenue out of their company so they can buy the next jetski / mansion etc.
Given the increase in costs lately many builders were stuck with loss making contracts and rather than lose a cent of their personal wealth, these scumbags wind up the company.
They will then open a new company in their wife / cousin / nephews name and continue the shady practices.
This typically hurts subcontractors, material suppliers and purchasors who have whacked down deposits.
However most of those people (except purchasors) make enough money in the industry to wear it.
Let him chase his dream and be happy he’s a hardworking kid. If it doesn’t work out he can change career!
This. There’s nothing wrong with a trade. If it turns out he doesn’t like it, it’s not the end of the world. Not many people now start a job out of school and do the same thing til retirement.
Thanks all who have responded. My mind it as ease after reading the feedback. Appreciate it.
Someone's buying all the utes and it ain't me.
Depends on the trade. Some of my colleagues are on $600-$700 per day. And sometimes they knock off early, around 1 or 2pm. A contractor I used to work with made $1200 a day. Sometimes you really have to work for your money, though.
If he gets in, make sure he takes a pathway that will not collapse. Get into something like electrical, plumbing or locksmith. These are trades that pay very well and at the end of his trade training there is always going to be work and he can work for himself.