Why Are Australians Not Kicking up a Fuss Like The French Do?

Lkaoz on 29/03/2023 - 19:25
Last edited 31/03/2023 - 23:28 by 1 other user

As of 1st July 2023 the age pension eligibility in Australia will be raised yet again to 67 years, for people born after 1st January 1957.

Our social system is declining with more and more social services being privatised and becoming unaffordable to low-income families and individuals.

Why are we not on the streets demanding better living condition and a more equal distribution of wealth, while letting big corporations get away with not paying their fair share of taxes and spending billions of dollars on nuclear submarines.

Has Australia gotten too soft?

Edit: what would it take for Aussies to get up and protest for their rights?
Edit2: definition of aged pension

Education & Work

Comments

    • deafspot on 30/03/2023 - 07:49
      +4

      I agree, but sadly, prisons are a fiscal blackhole. On average, it costs $323 per day or ~$117k per year to house a single prisoner. It's catch22, we need some place to put criminals away to protect the society. On the other hand, I think the government could have used the money better elsewhere…

      • saltypete on 31/03/2023 - 09:36

        Yes, this is a problem, and I wonder if it is on the minds of those doing the sentencing.
        We fine the community as we punish offenders

  • deveshwar0 on 29/03/2023 - 23:07
    +13

    Why lower the retirement age for aged pension?
    Why do you want to intentionally be a welfare recipient?
    You want to retire early, work hard, don't squander, accumulate enough assets and generate a passive income that you can live off.
    Maybe you can retire at 55!

    • kaoz on 30/03/2023 - 08:39
      +3

      Yay, the capitalist’s dream!
      Not everyone is fortunate enough to do so, though. Thousands of people work hard their entire lives and are left with nothing if/when they retire, without squandering along the way.

    • greatlamp on 30/03/2023 - 10:24
      +1

      Not everyone can earn enough to fund their own retirement - our economic system doesn't allow it. It's easy to point at an individual and say they should have worked harder. If you point at the lowest 10% of the population and tell them they should have worked harder, a different group of people would have fallen into the lowest 10%.

      It isn't possible for everyone to be wealthy, so this attitude reduces down to the fortunate kicking down on those who are already less fortunate.

      Instead of telling people to work hard, why isn't there instead calls to raise wages for the millions of 'essential' jobs that are the lowest paid in our society - then we wouldn't have to pay those people welfare when they get older.

  • Eeples on 30/03/2023 - 01:28
    +2

    It is way more complicated than just moving the retirement age in France from 62 to 64.

    Factors such as best earning years, number of years (or quarters) worked, your profession being special, and at what age you retire all effect the amount of pension you receive.

    I think it is hard to compare welfare systems.

    https://www.cleiss.fr/docs/regimes/regime_france/an_3.html

    • maximum on 02/04/2023 - 04:32

      To get the full pension in France you have to had worked and contributed to the pension for 42 years. In Australia you could have never worked or paid any income tax and still claim a full pension.

  • ECE on 30/03/2023 - 05:33

    Wut? 🤣

  • tabitha731 on 30/03/2023 - 07:15
    +1

    The Aussies aren't complaining coz we're not French! I would be complaining too if I had to work longer in France!

  • lostgoat on 30/03/2023 - 07:18
    +1

    We are going to 70 in 5 secs and who gives a `^ !
    We can thank Hardley Normal and the like for their covid abuse .

  • gromit on 30/03/2023 - 07:48
    +1

    maybe because unlike the french we can actually see how unaffordable and unsustainable government funded retirement is becoming. You can retire any age you like, just if you expect to live off the tax payers teat then you should not expect a free and easy ride or the ability to make such unsustainable demands.

    • Rob-4x4 on 30/03/2023 - 07:59
      +2

      I guess you would prefer to see a "Logans Run" type system introduced

      • gromit on 30/03/2023 - 09:30
        +1

        not at all, the population is aging, on top of that people are living longer, more and more resources are spent looking after the aged, People have to take responsibility for their own retirement. Government/tax payer funded retirement has to evolve to be little more than a basic safety net, it is simply reality in population model we live in. This is why we have superannuation, ideally in another decade or 2 the vast majority need to be self funded retirees or at least majority funded through super.

        • Protractor on 30/03/2023 - 13:47

          It isn't black and white. There is def a massive cohort who are still unable to rely on super, just by date of birth and when the system began.
          That needs to play out, as you say.

  • Rob-4x4 on 30/03/2023 - 07:58
    +3

    Sadly government relative tax income goes down mainly thanks to aggressive tax avoidance by corporates and the wealthy . Something has to give.
    As a start I always wonder why governments allow corporates who use aggressive tax avoidance to be government supplies ..

  • helpme on 30/03/2023 - 08:08
    +8

    Honestly. if we're going to kick up a fuss about something, retirement age wouldn't be at the top of the list for me. Declining healthcare system, declining education system, the inhumane treatment on jobseeker, corruption, and what the mining companies get away with.

  • EightImmortals on 30/03/2023 - 08:27
    +2

    Kick up a fuss?
    What on earth would us Aussies have to kick up a fuss about?

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1641106796239638529

    7 minutes.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzfJGC1_yPo

    1:40:00

  • morse on 30/03/2023 - 08:32

    You can choose to retire earlier, you just have to self fund those years.

  • Gunnar on 30/03/2023 - 08:44

    OP I take it you will be at a conference in Melbourne over the Easter weeeknd?

  • Danger on 30/03/2023 - 08:53

    I'm 37 year old and already feel retired in Australia (considering an easygoing & relaxed workplace)

    • EightImmortals on 30/03/2023 - 09:03

      Where did you live previously?

      • Danger on 30/03/2023 - 09:25

        I've worked in India for sometime

    • lostgoat on 30/03/2023 - 09:59
      +1

      You obviously aren't an Amazon picker .

  • afah0447 on 30/03/2023 - 09:12
    +12

    'What will take it take for Aussies to get up and protest for their rights' you ask?

    1. Propose to withdraw negative gearing.
    2. Propose to withdraw franking credits.
    3. Propose to withdraw capital gains tax concessions.

    Australia is not the fair go, egalitarian nation it used to be. It is now run for greed and wealth accumulation. France still holds the values of 'national good' and equality close.

    John Howard and the LNP trampled those values and told everyone to only care about becoming as rich as possible and to not care about anything else.

    • horseshoe on 30/03/2023 - 11:13
      +5
      1. Withdraw negative gearing: Agree. Negative gearing is a policy that encourages the accumulation of property with no productive benefit to society.

      On 2 and 3, you do realise these are policies that are opposite to each other?
      Franking credits were introduced by a Labor government and were intentionally designed to make company decisions of whether to retain profits or issue dividends tax neutral, because they remove the double taxation of corporate tax + income tax.

      Capital gains concessions were introduced by a Liberal government and do the exact opposite. They make it more tax efficient for businesses to retain all profits, so that it goes into the share price going up. The message to investors is "just sell your shares if you want to cash out". In my opinion, this is the worse approach. It encourages more activity (and speculation) in the stock market. It makes it easier for investors to avoid tax. It biases businesses into growth at all costs strategies rather than only investing in good opportunities and returning the rest to the investor in dividends.

      It's not all hurr durr, you rich, you bad person. The proposal to removing franking credits was poor policy, announced with no warning, and Labor should have found a better way to balance the budget.

      • Eeples on 30/03/2023 - 11:52
        +1

        I thought the proposal was not to remove franking credits but only to discount those credits when they caused a refund.

        • greatlamp on 30/03/2023 - 22:50

          That policy would still provide franking credits to people on average or high incomes, but remove franking credits for people who have no income - i.e. the retired. It strikes me as anti progressive to explicitly create a tax refund that only the highest income earners can benefit from

  • GG57 on 30/03/2023 - 09:21
    +2

    The only real mass protests in Australia in recent decades were against our involvement in the war in Vietnam. It resulted in a change of federal government on that policy.
    The people we are talking about have had a pretty easy life, and at the same time lived through the influences of a cultural revolution (e.g. punk, hippies, free love), environmentalism, significant improvements in lifestyle, technology, etc., and was it only one recession (so far).

  • mantra on 30/03/2023 - 09:55

    ndis have fund me over 500k past 4 years, not a single support has allowed me to move forward, i don't need this level of support i need correct supports, left continuing to deteriorate, each plan review i hope they actually listen to recommendations made but it'll probably be another 150k+ pushing supports i don't want/need when more suitable alternatives are available, can only assume planners think i'm going to be like this forever and getting my actual needs met will cost more money but they refuse to even try

    makes me angry cause not only do i have to suffer quite severely (can only brush teeth once fortnight/bathe every 4-8 weeks/pee in a bag isolated in a small bedroom and yes that's with 150k ndis plan) im left paralyzed to the floor majority of each day, each plan is equitant to 4-7 pensions, i have the potential to be working and not require a full pension myself but i've had every chance to move forward taken away from me

    it'd only take a year of correct supports and possibly even cheaper than my current plan as it would allow me to be self sufficient but i'm forced to deal with what i'm provided

    being on pension most my life haven't thought about retirement age but so frustrating how much they waste sending people in circles rather than getting ones needs met, so many genuine needs getting rejected for disability pension trapped in a perpetual cycle that only drains ones wellbeing and other government services until they eventually end up on full disability pension for longer than initially needed with much higher support requirements (further draining ndis, housing, hospital resources, etc)

    • lostgoat on 30/03/2023 - 10:06
      -2

      You should be grateful you have that level of funding .
      If you lived in most countries overseas you would have 0 ZERO .

      • mavis30551 on 30/03/2023 - 10:27

        what a nice person you are…/S

      • greatlamp on 30/03/2023 - 10:29
        +1

        they would also have family and neighbours who would help them. In Australia they have neighbours like you. This is the real Australian culture, not the 'mateship' and 'fair go' that Australia likes to pretend that exists - maybe that existed in a previous generation.

    • Eeples on 30/03/2023 - 12:07
      +1

      Mmmm…

      I don’t know your situation but i have found these things useful.

      1. Get lots of funding for your NDIS coordinator so they can find the correct supports and quality providers.

      2. Be prepared to change providers (at any time) including the coordinator.

      3. Having a friend or relative as an advocate for you is very helpful. Enduring power of attorney or them becoming your private financial manager (through for example NSW trustee and guardian) is beneficial.

      4. Half price (free WA) taxi vouchers are great; if eligible.

      5. Apply for funding for your coordinator specifically for you to apply for SDA funding.

      6. Use a 3rd party NDIS management such as NDSP in order to pay non ndis approved providers.

      7. If your plan is not suitable or you run out of money apply for a plan review straight away; don’t wait for the plan to end.

      Good luck.

      • Eeples on 30/03/2023 - 20:29

        Negged.

        Weird.

    • Feeblely on 30/03/2023 - 16:34

      That sucks. What would you need to work again?

  • AlanHB on 30/03/2023 - 09:55
    +3

    Probably because the French changes are driven by a single person, President Macron, pushing through changes after they failed to reach support through the usual government processes. My understanding is that this it is also unclear whether he has the legal power to do so.

    So basically the protests are related to a subversion/undermining of democracy/government processes because he's acting more like a dictator than a democratically elected President.

    • Herbse on 30/03/2023 - 12:12

      The prime minister of France, not Macron (the president), used their legally given powers to legally bypass the parliament because it might not have passed, because France is a government made up of minority parties many of which are right wing and strongly oppose Macron just because he's Macron.
      The only way for anyone to oppose the bypass the legislation is to have a vote if no confidence from opposition parties. If they do that, then they'll be able to legally stop it.

      Doing something that's good for the country and not to appease angry mobs is exactly how governments should act and a far cry from "dictatorship".

      • AlanHB on 31/03/2023 - 13:04
        +1

        Uh ignoring the will of the people and instead doing what you think is "good for the country" is exactly what a dictatorship is.

  • cupcake on 30/03/2023 - 09:56
    +1

    The Australian government hates us.

    • cashless on 02/04/2023 - 00:02

      No, the AU govt can’t afford to keep you. They want you to work hard & save to provide sufficient savings to look after yourself for 25 or so years when you retire.
      In doing so you’ll contribute towards those who were unable to do the same while you were working, but the support they’ll get from the the Age Pension, will be meagre, barely enough to survive.

      The message is clear. Government (i.e. taxpayers) will not provide for you, you have to make arrangements to look after yourself.

      TBH, that has always been my mantra. No one is going to look out for you, you’d better look after yourself.

  • pegaxs on 30/03/2023 - 10:09
    +1

    Lol… unless Australians can do it with a hashtag from the privacy of their boomer parents basement, they won’t ever protest this. It’s such a moan about it but do nothing society… at least now we might see some change with Labor across the board, well, until they start giving out back handlers to their political donors and we need to vote them back out.

  • zerog101 on 30/03/2023 - 10:24

    Australians are lazy and don’t care too much about anything ….

  • mavis30551 on 30/03/2023 - 10:26
    +3

    How are we putting up with the destruction of medicare.
    Private health is a disgusting rort and I have young friends who dont go to the doctor when they get sick because they cannot afford it. 10 years of a conservative government and its going to take a long time to undo that damage and they could be back in next term.
    We are turning into America and thats not a good thing.

    • GG57 on 30/03/2023 - 10:32
      +5

      I agree with you apart from this:

      10 years of a conservative government…and they could be back in next term

      My view is that the conservative Liberal / National Party coalition are a dead duck as an option for government. They appear to be so out of touch with the voting public, across the country, and don't appear to be even looking to change.

      • mavis30551 on 30/03/2023 - 10:38
        +4

        They have the murdoch machine constantly going into bat for them though.

        Remember the election before last?
        Labor lost the "unlosable" election.

        I don't think liberals will back in either but in politics anything can happen and nothing surprises me.

        • GG57 on 30/03/2023 - 11:07
          +3

          Fair enough.
          Thankfully the end of the Murdoch reign appears to be near as well.

  • BargainCowboy on 30/03/2023 - 10:31
    +1

    Different mentality. Australians are complacent and obedient. If anything, our housing situation and future for young generations should send people protesting.

  • Pedro123 on 30/03/2023 - 10:35
    +1

    Change is happening slowly ..

  • gyrex on 30/03/2023 - 10:37
    +3

    Because most Australians have worked during their lifetimes and have accrued enough Superannuation and don't require a pension. The vast majority of people who will live off a pension are people who've decided to live off welfare generously paid for by the taxes paid by others. "Equal distribution of wealth" = give me your money because you've worked harder or smarter than me and I expect you to give me your money for no particular reason whatsoever and I feel like I deserve it.

    • lostgoat on 30/03/2023 - 10:47

      And the people on the pension thank you .
      Especially the ones that piled all their assets into their house to get the full pension.

    • Eeples on 30/03/2023 - 12:13

      Well… some ppl work all their lives (paying taxes) retire at 60, live on their super until 67, then go on the pension.

      This is a real problem for the govt but a pretty good wicket for retirement (if you own your own house).

  • USER DC on 30/03/2023 - 10:49
    +1

    Since when did we have a Bill of rights or Freedom of speech ?

    French sure kinda do under freedom to strike

    Govenrment even pays them food, so aint gotta worry about employers not paying them. Since protestors can still get food in their belly.

  • apple2016 on 30/03/2023 - 10:52

    what would it take for Aussies to get up and protest for their rights?

    Calm down and exercise your voting rights next time.

  • Bitplay33 on 30/03/2023 - 11:19
    +1

    OP is trying to complete their school politics or ressurection assignment by stirring up the passions of the proletariat with a Trump like argument ( for want of a better word)
    I'm going to mark your attempt as an F.

  • trapper on 30/03/2023 - 11:21
    +1

    Unless you made a lot of money already, it's very hard to imagine retiring early, like at 60 or something.

    Also what an absolutely waste of so many experts in their field, to then just stop contributing to society… and potter around the house, basically bored, for another 20 years.

    • GG57 on 30/03/2023 - 11:41

      OP's post is not accurate though. There isn't a retirement age in Australia; OP is referencing the age qualification for the Age Pension.

      Retirement isn't mandatory.
      Certainly, some people may no longer have the capability (e.g. physical) to continue working in their chosen field of employment, even up to the age of 67. I think that is an issue that needs to be addressed.
      But others, depending on their capabilities and their field of employment, continue working long beyond that age (if they choose to do so and have employment available). Again, this needs to be recognised and supported.

  • Raulioli8810 on 30/03/2023 - 11:36
    +2

    Because having second hand submarines for multi multi billions is more important 🤡🤡🤡🤣🤣🤣

    • trapper on 30/03/2023 - 13:17

      Without security you have nothing.

      You think the Ukrainians are worrying about their pension age right now?

      • mavis30551 on 31/03/2023 - 13:49
        +3

        You think 400 Billion for obsolete submarines in 20 years is going to give us security?

        • trapper on 01/04/2023 - 13:04

          Probably not, that's why we're upgrading to these new nuclear powered ones.

        • the wiz on 01/04/2023 - 16:57
          +2

          Not on its own. But we need to be able to make a contribution to global defence if we expect others to come to our aid.

          I'm amused by the many who think defence spending is wasteful, yet we should be destroying our power grid to make virtually zero difference to the climate just so we are seen to be doing our fair share while China is building hundreds of coal power plants.

  • Herbse on 30/03/2023 - 12:01

    The french government and our government is doing what exactly what democracy is supposed to do.The elected people are doing what's best for the overall country in the long term, not just things to appease the vocal people.
    If that means it will be used against them come next vote, then so be it. But if every government caved in to angry, rioting groups on a whim. Then we don't have democracy, we have mob rules.

    • lostgoat on 30/03/2023 - 12:16
      +4

      Seriously Dude behind the scenes . Those that can afford to support lobby staff/groups end up with the best deals . And we all know these people aren't short of a penny and are never happy with whatever wealth they have accumulated. Democracy in action .

  • FirstWizard on 30/03/2023 - 12:13
    +3

    From some things I've read, the bigger issue for protests is not necessarily raising the retirement age but how they did it.

    They used an article (49:3) in the constitution that is reserved to be used in genuine emergencies, which allowed the government to make a bill law by proclamation without it going through the parliament, thus skipping the democratic process.
    The only way the parliament could veto it is to vote on a no-confidence motion to the government, which will effectively dissolve the assembly.
    Though a motion was brought forward, MPs (who didn't want to lose their job) did not pass it.
    https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2022/10/19/france-h…

    I also read that Australia does have such provisions, but it requires the Governor General first to declare a state of Emergency. Also, the government should table each proclamation to the parliament, and they can veto each bill separately without having to bring down the government.

    • Herbse on 30/03/2023 - 12:20

      Is the country going broke from supporting an ageing population not an emergency I wonder? It might be in the future because people age slowly, but the only way to avoid that future emergency is to act on it now. I would have thought?

      To me it sounds like the opposition using vague terms to discredit the validity of the legislation and hope the negative press hurts them at the next election.

      • greatlamp on 30/03/2023 - 22:55

        It's not even a current issue, it will become an issue. Seems as far from as emergency as possible

        • Herbse on 30/03/2023 - 22:57

          Hm. Would you call climate change an emergency issue? Or something we should deal with after it's too late?

          • greatlamp on 30/03/2023 - 22:59
            +1

            @Herbse: Climate change can't be fixed by extending the balance sheet and issuing a few extra bonds. Nevertheless I wouldn't be supporting laws forced through with emergency powers for the purpose of climate change

  • ttt888 on 30/03/2023 - 12:46

    Simples,
    Reality is no matter how u think social benefits have declined we are still leaving a bloody dream.

    Very few countries can beat us when comes to NDIS, aged pension etc.

    Nothing to see here, just move along.

    • Thaal Sinestro on 30/03/2023 - 13:01
      +2

      Australia's pension is one of the lowest in the world, when compared to average working age salaries. See the graph on this page: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/02/average-pension-count…

      Australia is about 20% in from the left hand side, at about 42%. Italy, Turkey, India, Croatia are at the top; a government pension watches the average full time wage (100%).

      Even if you fully own a house, an Australian pension is barely enough to live on, and it is getting worse since it doesn't keep pace with real inflation (cost of food, medicines, medical services, energy).

      • Mad Max on 30/03/2023 - 13:14

        Keep believing what the WEF says and follow the rules they are trying to impose on the world by infiltrating all governments.
        It will end up very badly for the masses. Especially the workers and the middle class.
        The rich and the elites will win.

      • ttt888 on 30/03/2023 - 14:10

        Don't trust those.

        All I know is my parents are on aged pension and it's just amazing how much assets u can have before your pension are cut off to 0.

  • lddv04 on 30/03/2023 - 12:51
    +1

    You can retire when you like sport, you just can't access the aged pension until you're 67. Plus I would hope that you're not relying solely on the aged pension when you retire!

  • Thaal Sinestro on 30/03/2023 - 12:52
    +5

    Political violence is part of American and French culture. Australians are so apathetic they will let the government get away with anything. I would love to take the fight the the government, but nobody would join me

    One reason why people don't care about the pension age increase is that rich, powerful people can retire at 62 and live off their superannuation. The poor won't have enough saved to retire at 62.

    People are living longer but aren't healthier and their bodies are degrading just as fast as they did 100 years ago. People in late middle age cannot, in general, do jobs involving physical labour 8 hours a day. Women over 50 spend 240 weeks on average on the dole, before they become eligible for the pension. Older people are almost unemployable except in soft office jobs for which there is lots of competition. Everyone should be able to retire at 62 if they so choose, and receive a modest pension. I am so proud of the French for standing up to Macron.

    • kaoz on 31/03/2023 - 09:32

      Well said! I completely agree.

  • Hangryuman on 30/03/2023 - 12:53
    +3

    my historical take is Australia started as a penal colony where a subjugated population was required to stand in line, etc., and behave or else they could be punished

    France is more likely a rural population who are used to making their own decisions, and with the storming of the Bastille and days of the guillotine behind them - if I'm not mistaken that may have followed the 1765 US Revolution with their own from 1789 - then they are ready to up in arms at any perceived injustice 'Allons enfant de la patrie' ('Arise, children of the Fatherland')

    whereas Australians tend to be passive recipients of news which they might complain about, but only choose to vote every 4 years or whatever, then go back to staring at their screens.

    • Protractor on 30/03/2023 - 13:25

      " passive recipients"
      apathetic
      in denial

  • Freitag on 30/03/2023 - 13:00

    Do they have the equivalent of superannuation? Most of us won't be waiting to get on the pension, we will be accessing our own superannuation savings.

    If you don't superannuation you get the pension, if you are too young to get the pension and don't have a job you go on centrelink.

    Our pension isn't as much as theirs and is ideally something to be avoided if possible, but theirs is a decent option. So they make you wait longer for a decent pension which is why everyone isn't happy.

  • lostgoat on 30/03/2023 - 13:02

    It already happening .
    How do I profit from the Gen Z vs Boomer wars that only getting worst ?

  • Falkner on 30/03/2023 - 13:05
    +5

    People are way too subservient here, not only that, but we just have it too good for the most part, only a small subsection of Australians are really doing it tough. Even if something like in France was to happen here, they'd be labelled "violent extremists" and a "fringe minority" by the members of the government and media, rather than people voicing their concerns for what they believe in.

    This has slowly been happening the past few years ever since the information age massively progressed, probably from when occupy wall street happened.

    Basically the only way something like a protest would change anything if they happened the same way they did decades ago involving the union movement, or the banks and pubs literally close there doors on patrons because the financial system collapsed, or something.

    Also in France, it is actually fairly common to be patriotic and upstanding of your country and fellow countrymen.

    In Australia, you're looked at like a looney these days if you have an Australian flag waving anywhere or seen as a racist if you attend an Australia day march.

  • Protractor on 30/03/2023 - 13:24
    -1

    This argument is completely hollow. It's just pre "cooker " click bait. The fact is if the OP was 'truly' concerned, perhaps they would argue about the world being overpopulated by the human plague. Somehow no-one wants to admit the obvious, and no, it isn't sustainable, and 'plateauing out' won't undo the already rapidly approaching unfix-able mess of 'us'.
    The political model isn't as broken as the species one is. Band-aiding the lesser looming catastrophe , does nothing to deflect the main issue
    Imagine what the climate will be like after another 25% of the Amazon RF falls and and the (current )retreating glaciers disappear.
    That's a few years away.
    Humans seem to be the only species equipped with denial as the default survival mechanism.
    Protesting is the support act for the main event.

    • kaoz on 31/03/2023 - 09:31

      With all due respect, but the overpopulation myth is kinda silly, though. It’s a tool used by the right to try and get rid of “undesirables”. This planet could easily cater for the current and growing populations, but not if the whole global population lived with the Australian (or “western”) standard of living. We’re producing too much shit (too many things designed to end up in landfill and/or with planned obsolescence), we take up too much land and treat the land as if it was full of endless recourses, and the only way we can afford this lifestyle is because people in the developing world are are made to mass produce our crap for next to no money and in terrible working conditions.
      We have the know-how to lift everyone on this planet out of poverty and guarantee that all basic human needs are covered, but we need to fundamentally change the way we think about the economy, our lifestyles, energy production and foreign politics, what we produce and how we do so.
      If everyone on this planet lived the Aussie “dream” lifestyle with multiple cars, a boat and/or a camper van, a holiday home on a rural block, all the latest tech and so on, then yes, we would have an overpopulation problem. But that’s a very privileged point of view.
      This doesn’t mean we all have to live in slums but us in the “western world” certainly will have to make some concessions and stop living off of the backs of people in the developing world.

      • CowFrogHorse on 31/03/2023 - 11:30
        +1

        kaoz: This planet could easily cater for the current and growing populations, but not if the whole global population lived with the Australian (or “western”) standard of living.

        cow:
        Why dont you put 50 people in your house ? Sure it could be done by why ?

        The world already has too many people. Even sydney is saturated, and we see lots of negative consequences from kids not being able to paly cricket because of lack of space in schools, to hours wasted commuting because of traffic and breakdowns.

        ~

        kaoz: We have the know-how to lift everyone on this planet out of poverty and guarantee that all basic human needs are covered, but we need to fundamentally change the way we think about the economy, our lifestyles, energy production and foreign politics, what we produce and how we do so

        cow: Be a realist. Nothing is prefect and never will be. We must accept the limitations and the fact stuff is broken.

        THis is the public transport and commuting problem all over again. Everybody pretending building more trains and roads will fix the problem… but not a single city on earth ever gets better. They all get worse.

        • kaoz on 31/03/2023 - 12:00

          That is assuming a continuation of the current - and arguably failed - system. Respectfully, you can continue to put your head in the sand and accept the crumbs we’re currently given, but I refuse that and believe that we should at least try to improve the current system. We’ll make many mistakes along the way and most certainly never achieve a “utopia”, but that shouldn’t stop us from trying to improve the material conditions of the people.

          • CowFrogHorse on 31/03/2023 - 12:03
            +1

            @kaoz: kaoz: Respectfully, you can continue to put your head in the sand and accept the crumbs we’re currently given

            cow: Sorry you are wrong.

            I was trying to show with the example of transport, that the vast majority accept adn think the current direction is the answer.

            I believe the answer isnt MORE its LESS. Transport infrastructure is a perfect example o MORE always failing

            • kaoz on 31/03/2023 - 18:54

              @CowFrogHorse: Umm… thank you, I guess, for making my point for me?!

      • Mad Max on 31/03/2023 - 12:47

        Here in Australia people throw away stuff instead of cleaning it. And buy it new because it is made in China and it is cheap. Even quite expensive stuff.
        The same people believe in "climate change".

  • Dack Smith on 30/03/2023 - 13:30
    -2

    Priorities are different here, no one seems to give a shit about stuff that actually matters.

    Our health system is failing, people are dying while ramped unable to go to into hospital - no outrage, no government dismissal, business as usual.

    It’s so morbid, kind of like voters enjoy this by not kicking up a stink.

    The only Australians seem to care about are “the voice”, getting cheap airfares to third world countries and buying more 4090s and exotic cars.

    It saddens me to note that my fellow countrymen have totally lost the plot.

    They live a day to day existence filled only with the latest social media craze and indulge their endless materialistic cravings.

    Cravings for all goods China.

    Please neg vote this post to show that I’m correct and we love our Chinese benefactors.

  • Mad Max on 30/03/2023 - 13:50
    +4

    @Dack Smith

    Please neg vote this post to show that I’m correct

    Sorry but cannot neg you to show you are correct.
    You are absolutely right so + from me.

  • Jhonka on 30/03/2023 - 14:25
    +1

    Too busy working mate.

  • randome on 30/03/2023 - 14:39
    +2

    We have a right wing media landscape that has been gaslighting the voting public into thinking that policies that favor higher corporate profits only good and that all policies that favor labor is bad. If you consider that the real customers of media companies are not you the consumer, it is the corporate advertisers.

    How else do you explain the fact that voters kept reelecting the Federal LNP when they had a stated policy of keeping wage growth low?

    Another example was the repealing of the mining tax. After the mining companies won, they did not use those extra funds to reinvest into growing the productive capacity and creating jobs; they returned it to shareholders including overseas owners in tax havens.

    The average person does not have the headspace to consider how public policy will sell them or their kids out when they are dealing with paying a mortgage or managing children; they rely on the media to keep them informed. They just don't realise that the media is incentivised to keep people dark in the service of monied and corporate interests.

    • Protractor on 30/03/2023 - 15:02
      +3

      Gaslighting?
      The media has an apathetic horde inviting it to push chaff down it's collective gullible throat.
      Australians masses still think David Koch and Sunrise is not a spinoff of the Muppets/

    • Brianqpr on 30/03/2023 - 15:20
      +3

      Well put. Not only do they rely on media, it is very much commercial TV and Murdoch controlled media for the majority too.

      I rarely watch commercial TV news but absolutely cringe when I do see it, as its very much geared towards mind control. It's hard to believe this rubbish still rates in the days of endless streaming options, yet somehow it does. The same cheesy idiots are presenting that Sunrise nonsense every morning as 15-20 years ago, who the hell is watching and why?

      Mining tax was one good example. Gillard being screamed out of office for daring to try and do something about climate change was another, leaving us playing catch up after a wasted decade. All driven by corporate greed.

      Now we sit idly by as Colesworth etc casually increase prices by double the inflation rate. Because they can. Because we let them.

      • Protractor on 30/03/2023 - 15:41
        +1

        Two words on proof the human race is sleep walking into oblivion, and taking 90% of nature with it.

        "Reality TV"

        Most humans would rather ( in 3rd world countries, aspire to) watch nature on a giant TV, than be in it.Let alone respect it.
        We are deluded if we think leaving coal/gas behind fixes even 1% of the negative impacts of 'us'.

        The numpty who thinks electrifying Australia, while doing zero about the waste that creates, or the exponential growth of humans running parallel to his causes, will get in front of the inevitable, is honestly nothing but laughable.

  • lostgoat on 30/03/2023 - 14:49
    +2

    Follow the $$$$$$$$ . I wonder why all the migrants are trying to cross the channel ?

    • Protractor on 30/03/2023 - 14:58

      That explains everything about colonisation, innit?

  • Protractor on 30/03/2023 - 14:57

    The elephants have filled the room.>
    https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/cant-keep-up-west-…

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 30/03/2023 - 15:09
    -1

    "Our social system is declining with more and more social services being privatised and becoming unaffordable to low-income families and individuals."

    I hate the idea it is only low income families anyone household on the nation average home loan around 500k earning less then 200-300k pa would be finding it difficult right now esp if that household has dependents

    Most wouldnt consider 200-300k pa a low income family but it goes to show how hard life has gotten

    • SBOB on 30/03/2023 - 19:12
      +1

      anyone household on the nation average home loan around 500k earning less then 200-300k pa would be finding it difficult right now esp if that household has dependents

      If you think someone with this financial situation is "finding it difficult", may I ask you to put down the caviar spoon and reassess your definition of "finding it difficult"

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