Business Class - Change of Aircraft

LHumble on 12/04/2023 - 22:06

Recently, we booked international Business Class seats through Qantas flying a partner airline. It was only during boarding when we discovered there was a last minute aircraft change (which was NOT communicated prior). This aircraft did not have lie flat seats, rather, a 2-2-2 configuration, but still considered business class.

Two key questions we're keen to hear the Ozbargain community's thoughts on:

  1. Is an operational change in aircraft simply a case of bad luck, or should we be entitled to some form of compensation given the experience/product was not what we had paid for and had we known there would be no lie flat seats, we would not have booked? Note that we were able to pre-select (lie flat) seats beforehand and the e-ticket/receipt stated the aircraft type.

  2. Is Qantas responsible for this issue given we booked through Qantas and the e-ticket/receipt was issued by Qantas?

Thanks for your input in advance.

Travel

Comments

  • Wiadro on 12/04/2023 - 22:09
    -4

    This aircraft did not have lie flat seats, rather, a 2-2-2 configuration, but still considered business class.

    its still business class, which is what you paid for.

    • jjjaar on 13/04/2023 - 00:30
      +4

      its still business class, which is what you paid for.

      Not necessarily - I don’t think it’s that straightforward.

      If a lie flat seat was advertised as an inclusion in the fare they were booking during the booking process, then a lie flat seat is what they paid for. Applying you logic to another situation - if someone pays for a 75” TV, but receives a 55” TV it’s would still be ok because they paid for a TV.

      However, it’s also not as straightforward as “lie flat was advertised, therefore that’s what they get”, as Qantas would definitely have something in their t+cs that covers them for situations like this, by buying the tickets you are agreeing to those t+cs.

      • capslock on 13/04/2023 - 06:08

        A TV manufacturer usually sells their 75" TV for more than their 55" TV.

        An airline usually sells their business class seat for the same price regardless of lie flat or not lie flat. In the case of Qantas I don't actually think they specifically mention lie flat seats in their advertising. You have to do a bit of research to work out what type of seat you are getting.

        • Humble on 13/04/2023 - 07:50
          +1

          @jjjaar Some great points raised here. I concur that it is not so straightforward. Adding to the complexity is applying ACL (noting that organisations can’t contract out of ACL).

          @capslock I would argue otherwise. If you go to any airline’s business class page, most definitely they advertise/boast about their lie flat seats. I would also argue that long haul business class seats are more expensive than non lie flat seats due to product quality and demand (though this is not so clear cut either).

        • jjjaar on 13/04/2023 - 09:05

          In the case of Qantas I don't actually think they specifically mention lie flat seats in their advertising

          They do. Or at least did last time I flew business about 6 months ago.

    • Drakesy on 13/04/2023 - 09:40
      +2

      This is the precedent you're looking for

  • SF3 on 12/04/2023 - 22:15
    +3

    OP’s User name doesn’t check out.

  • skid on 12/04/2023 - 22:25

    1. I think you would have been entitled to cancel. I don't think you are entitled to a partial refund/full refund if that is what you mean by compensation.

    2. I would think Qantas are responsible.

    But this is after you've taken the flight, so I'd cop this one on the chin, sorry.

    • Humble on 12/04/2023 - 22:53
      +1

      Thanks skid - frustrating that we weren't notified or given an opportunity to cancel. It's unfortunate but perhaps may have to take this one on the chin.

  • djkelly69 on 12/04/2023 - 22:27
    +3

    I would be posting this on AFF rather than here.

  • SydStrand on 12/04/2023 - 22:28
    +3

    Is this you, OP?

    • [Deactivated] on 12/04/2023 - 23:22

      Post inspo, for sure

  • JimmyF on 12/04/2023 - 22:57

    Is an operational change in aircraft simply a case of bad luck

    Yes it is a case of bad luck, I mean as you said

    but still considered business

    You paid for business class, you got business class.

    I'm sure there is a reason you picked that flight for the 'business class' fit out. It is rare, but sometimes aircraft are changed for whatever reason, it is just a case of bad luck when it happens.

    • Humble on 12/04/2023 - 23:14

      Yep no disputing we still got business class and perhaps simply a case of bad luck.

      Although, in almost any other consumer situation, you would be entitled to a replacement/refund (i.e. you received something not as described). In this case, they advertise lie flat seats as the key feature of long haul business class seats which is what we purchased, so how come it differs in this scenario?

      • thatonethere on 12/04/2023 - 23:41
        +1

        Worth looking at what this guy did - https://liveandletsfly.com/emirates-new-zealand-business-cla…

        It was NZ tho - and the lie flat plane wasn't even on that route apparently.

        • djkelly69 on 13/04/2023 - 09:42

          Not that an NZ tribunal decision holds any weight in Australia, but interesting that the member in that case is quoted as saying:

          Emirates advertised a business class service that consumers were very unlikely to receive. This was the result of advertising a service that they were rarely delivering, not due to an occasional or one-off change of aircraft due to operational requirements.

          To me that tends to suggest an occasional or one-off change of aircraft for operational reasons would be acceptable, so OP might investigate that a little further.

          Link to the AFF thread discussing the NZ/Emirates thing if anyone is interested.

  • kerfuffle on 12/04/2023 - 23:10
    -4

    Would you offer to pay more if you booked standard Business Class and your plane got upgraded to lie flat Business Class?

    • bobbified on 13/04/2023 - 01:32
      +1

      I would think that the airline would factor those upgrades into their decision to use a different plane. Whereas, when it's the other way around, the passenger doesn't get a say in the airline's decision to change planes. 😋

  • p1 ama on 12/04/2023 - 23:28
    -1

    Is an operational change in aircraft simply a case of bad luck, or should we be entitled to some form of compensation given the experience/product was not what we had paid for and had we known there would be no lie flat seats, we would not have booked?

    No, the contract with the airline is to get you from point A to point B, and it's always made clear that things such as the departure and arrival time, the aircraft type, seats, meals…etc. are not a part of the contract and are subject to change for operational reasons.

    Regardless, I can't seem to verify your story. I've looked through all of Qatar's aircraft, and all widebody aircraft with a 2-2-2 layout in J have lie-flat seats. Something doesn't add up here.

    • Muzeeb on 12/04/2023 - 23:48
      +4

      Where does op mention they flew with Qatar?

    • Humble on 13/04/2023 - 07:52
      +1

      I’m also confused where Qatar has come from? I’d read my post right before attempting to fact check me…

      Separately, need to consider and layer ACL over what the contract states.

      • randomusername2017 on 13/04/2023 - 07:58
        +1

        partner airline

        Creative license when filling in blanks

  • TheMindsetTraveller on 13/04/2023 - 00:33

    Were you Qatar'ed! (and bumped out of a Q suite?)

    But all Qatar long haul Australia to/from Doha is lay flat iirc.

  • MELso on 13/04/2023 - 08:23

    Lie flat seats are usually available in 2-2-2 configurations (although direct aisle access isn't). Did you mean the seats were angled?

  • coffeeinmyveins on 13/04/2023 - 08:31
    +1

    Business Class seats through Qantas flying a partner airline

    Since it's a partner airline the fact that qantas advertises lie-flat for theirs is not relevant, right? I'd be pissed though, if I booked business and expected lie-flat on an international and didn't get it.

    What international carrier has business class that isn't lie flat nowadays anyway?

    I flew business a month ago from NYC to SYD with qantas and it was 1-2-1 config on an a380.

  • Tee Rex Arms on 13/04/2023 - 08:51

    Was this rewards points or just straight deep pockets?

  • CGradeCyclist on 13/04/2023 - 08:58
    +1

    You'll find there are Ts & Cs that basically cover Qantas if a change is made on a codeshare airline. Qantas has zero control over what the other airline does.

    You're certainly entitled to feel disappointed - I would too! But will be very surprised if you manage to get compensation in this case. Good luck if you follow it up tho.

  • tmcn85 on 13/04/2023 - 09:00
    +1

    Somebody just recently took Emirates to court on this and won.

  • Seraphin7 on 13/04/2023 - 09:01
    -2

    Qantas

    Also known as SkrewU Airlines.

  • RockyRaccoon on 13/04/2023 - 09:06

    You booked a flight via qantas on a partner airline expecting it to be lie flat seats. It got changed.

    They wont change the plane for you. Its that simple.

    Therefore your options are.

    If there are flights/seats available and your trip plans suit the change and the carrier agrees.

    1. To another airline flight with lie flat seats. - This will require a refund from Qantas and the other airline.
    2. With the partner airline on a day that suits and has the seats you like.
    3. Throw a tantrum/ contact accc - consumer affairs - but thats only meaning a refund. Not much else.

    Probably not much more you can do.

    Welcome to the world of travel. Wonderful or Frustrating

    BTW what did Qantas or its partner offer you?

  • zoecot on 13/04/2023 - 10:52

    I once on the business class with no TV (TV broken and no other spare seat to change). They compensate me some qff point (not much…like $30-50 worth). But that was approved and signed off by the cabin crews leader while I am on the flight. Maybe you can try to complain on their website and if you are lucky you might get some qff? Tho technically, flat bed or not, really not in control of Qantas hand… doubt that they will give you anything. But keep us update!

  • Webber000 on 13/04/2023 - 16:13
    +1

    I totally get what you mean and would feel the exact same as you as I book based on my own research and choose (and pay more) to get the exact flight I want in the seats I want.
    But I've also read their T&C's which very clearly state they may change an aircraft without notice for any reason and they are only getting you from A to B and that they do NOT guarantee the type of seat etc and if you end up on an older aircraft with a different configuration you are absolutely not entitled to any compensation.
    Is that fair? Personally I say no because I choose to book based on getting that seat - but I have to understand that their T&C's make it clear that if I do want to make the booking that I have to accept that risk and can't do anything about it.

    Interestingly, just a month or so ago there was a court case where an airline (not Qantas) was required to pay compensation for exactly this situation - but only because what they had advertised on their website did not exist on any of their planes flying that route ever. But they wouldn't have got it for the reasons you (and I) believe in fairness we should get it! Its a risk you just have to take.

    I think in some cases if you are a regular flyer you can complain enough and eventually get given some points as a "good will gesture" - but your not going to get a refund. I guess the middle ground (that AFAIK doesn't exist) is that they sell it all as basic and then you pay for loads of extra upgrades and options and then on that basis you would be entitled to a refund of any of the upgrades you chose that they couldn't deliver.

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