At What Point Do You Stop Paying Rent/Mortgage and Just Become Homeless?

Guerilla89 on 19/04/2023 - 20:07

Basically I'm just curious as to what other people think they would do if the cost of housing keeps going up. Currently I rent because my kids visit twice a week but I wonder as to whether I should just live out of my car for a year or two to save enough for a deposit? The way I see it after child support, HECS, power, fuel, food, internet, phone and other bills, my rent eats up all of my possible savings to get a house.

A year ago I had an old run-down rental with 3 bedrooms for $350 a week which I accepted because I was running out of time to find somewhere to live and I couldn't find anywhere cheaper. They told me they were going to raise the rent to $370 a week which I thought was just crazy so I ended the lease then and moved into a small 2 bedroom duplex for $320 a week. The rent increased to $350 throughout the year and now they want to increase it again to $380.

I have a full time job working for the government so I don't understand how/why I find myself in a struggling situation financially. I'd move out to the sticks if I could but the ex has decided they'll live on the north side of Brisbane so any local options are very limited and I'm not going to abandon my kids just because of where she's chosen to live. I don't think I can allow housing costs to reach 50% of my income though, at that point I'm just surviving to fund the cash out of those who have decided that housing should be an investment pyramid scheme and I just flat out refuse to be taken advantage of like that.

Can anyone suggest how I might be able to solve this? i.e. find someone on acreage who doesn't mind a year long tent city in their back yard lol. Who knows, maybe disconnecting for a few years while my kids are young could turn out to be a great decision as no one will just be disconnecting from the family and escaping into TV/phone/computer?

Regardless of what you earn, what would be your breaking point be in regards to how much of your income you would be willing to part with to keep a roof over your head and your kids?

Poll Options

  • 9
    40%
  • 21
    60%
  • 22
    80%
  • 6
    100%
  • 13
    120% (i.e. you would be willing to go into debt to keep a roof over your heads)
  • 18
    200% (i.e. price is not a consideration to you in this regard)
Financial

Comments

    • Guerilla89 on 19/04/2023 - 20:17
      +3

      I don't go to cafe's or smoke or drink or dine out. While I could pay less than $350 a week for rent currently, any savings in rent would just be replaced by costs in fuel.

      • boomramada on 19/04/2023 - 20:29
        +5

        Perhaps downsizing as much as you can to a share house or mate or relative house.

        • Guerilla89 on 19/04/2023 - 20:41
          +6

          That's a good idea, a one bedroom won't kill us, it could literally just be the room with all the beds in it.

  • Stopback on 19/04/2023 - 20:19
    +16

    I have a full time job working for the government so I don't understand how/why I find myself in a struggling situation…

    Child support and divorce

    • Guerilla89 on 19/04/2023 - 20:22
      +9

      Yep… if I knew how costly a divorce is on not just finances but also how much it affects the kids I probably would have stayed with her and just dealt with it. She was definitely getting aggressive though and at the time I knew if I had gotten sick or needed her support it wouldn't have been there so I didn't think I had anything to lose. How wrong I was, once you leave you lose all control over who they decide to have around your kids.

      • Wintry Golem on 19/04/2023 - 20:26
        +7

        Have to admit, this is basically the main reason people end up homeless… The math doesn't lie and the anecdotes are real… Mental illness doesn't even compare to the destruction of a relationship breakdown.

        How do you do your budget when society basically requires that you maintain a certain type of relationship structure?

        There are a few red pilled entrepreneurs that are single, but these are rare. The average person is genuinely screwed.

      • bigsaver on 20/04/2023 - 12:31
        +1

        Is it shared custody or you simply let her have the kids? I feel for you… I'm personally never going into a financial unequal relationship ever again

        • juki on 21/04/2023 - 18:21

          do marriage contracts not exist in australia or do people not do one by default? (genuine question not sarcasm)

          • Molebag on 21/04/2023 - 20:15

            @juki: It's a good question. They do, but i suppose a lot of people were already in defacto relationships prior to marriage and as a result its considered too late to write one up when marriage comes along.

            Any reasonable person shouldnt balk at the topic if bought up by their partner. Rather i believe it should be an essential part of getting married especially when marriage failure statistics suggest that the odds are that itll all end and not amicably.

            Being at the payer side of child support for several years, i find that the CSA are pretty bias towards the payee. Im not sure if the mood has changed since the cost of living has gone up in recent times. I do feel for the OP as hes obviously trying his best to do the right thing and it seems that desperation might be starting to set in.

            • juki on 21/04/2023 - 20:27

              @Molebag: yeah but i imagine a contract would settle the points of the defacto part prior to the wedding.
              does what you have to pay vary with your income? or other reasons? can it ever be reviewed ?

              I've seen all sorts of scenarios in my work and i dont think difficulties or bias are gender related,
              however i cant say i'm familiar with the technical side and how archaic or modern australia may be.

              yes i do feel sorry for OP also - thanks for replying

        • Guerilla89 on 21/04/2023 - 23:49

          I don't want to share too many details but I see them multiple times a week. Luckily they are old enough to decide where they want to be but they spend as much time with me as they want basically.

  • Porker on 19/04/2023 - 20:19
    +7

    Perhaps consider a share house accommodation?

    Your kids will only be young once, and you'll never get the opportunity again… ever…

    • Guerilla89 on 19/04/2023 - 20:25
      +14

      This was my mothers thoughts and I agree with her. I can be homeless when they turn 20 lol, until then those kids need me :).

      • Stopback on 19/04/2023 - 21:25
        +18

        Brah they need you till they 45

      • Hearthstone on 20/04/2023 - 13:17
        +3

        in some culture it is a life time commitment
        when they are young you provide them security and shelters
        when they are older you provide them money for education
        when they need to buy a house you chipped in to help them
        when they have their own family you look after their kids
        and when you are too helpless to help hopefully they don't throw you in nursing home :)

      • seannami on 22/04/2023 - 20:11

        Could you live with your mother? Or could you afford a decent caravan so you can at least have something solid around you? Would the sticks but on the same train line as your family be an option?

        • Guerilla89 on 23/04/2023 - 00:13

          My family lives on the other side of the state unfortunately.

  • Wintry Golem on 19/04/2023 - 20:22
    +6

    Hitch up with a new relationship?

    Seriously, the best financial planning involves making sure your relationship stays steady… Statistically, even unmarried couples without children do it a lot better than singles.

    • brendanm on 19/04/2023 - 20:27
      -4

      even unmarried couples without children do it a lot better than singles.

      Married couples would be worse off, as they had to waste $50k on feeding and getting a bunch of people drunk the wedding.

      • deme on 19/04/2023 - 20:30
        +10

        You don't need a wedding

      • Guerilla89 on 19/04/2023 - 20:38
        +15

        When I was married we got a $100 cake, a $500 ring, the cheapest crazy celebrant we could find (i.e. tarot lady with crystals everywhere) and we told guests that we wanted their gift to us to be paying for their own dinner. My parents cleaned up the bill for all those guests who "lost track" of much they ordered, thank god, we wouldn't have been able to cover it. Honestly it was one of the happiest days of my life because I was surrounded by people who loved me, not by things I loved.

    • Guerilla89 on 19/04/2023 - 20:33
      +12

      I'm happy to shack up with someone, I just don't have the emotional capability to deal long term with a relationship. Even when I visit family or have my best friend visit by plane, it only takes maybe 3 days until I'm totally over them and want my own space, I'm just wired that way I guess. Even when I was happily married I hated sharing a bed and would often wait for her to fall asleep so I could sleep on the couch by myself or in another room. Maybe I just need to find someone else who is also very introverted? I dunno, good idea though.

      • payless69 on 20/04/2023 - 09:42

        Albo reckons $350 a week on Tinder will keep your boredom away!

  • cookie2 on 19/04/2023 - 20:51
    +14

    I comend you for your honesty. I'd say, consider share house and your own room, prior to living out of your car. Less mentally damaging imo and better for your ongoing relationship with kids.

  • Boioioioi on 19/04/2023 - 21:20
    +6

    Have you looked at the government's assistance schemes for buying your first home? There is a new scheme coming where the government will purchase up to 30% of the property, so the overall ammount you owe the bank is less. Additionally you would only need a 2% deposit. I know thats still something you'd have to save, but a lot easier than the 10% you'd normally need.

    https://www.mortgagechoice.com.au/guides/home-ownership/help…

  • markathome on 19/04/2023 - 22:39
    +3

    The reality is markets don't change unless people's behaviours change. I urge all dual-citizens to use their discretion when choosing where to live. Not saying that they shouldn't pick Australia, but make sure it's got the best offering

    I often reflect on the Keynes quote relating to the housing market, “markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent."

    So the option, on the table for those who are waiting (like me):

    • Wait longer
    • Vote according for those who will fix housing (i.e. against both major parties)
    • Penny pinch elsewhere
    • Exercise any flexibility you have (like the dual citizen thing)

    The situation is pretty dismal, but you're not alone. I have also considered doing a brief stint of homelessness if it comes to it.

  • garetz on 20/04/2023 - 00:10
    +2

    Look for a plot of land at the 12-15km from the city range, and build a tiny house.

    This is your cheapest option.

    • freefall101 on 20/04/2023 - 10:46
      +2

      Unfortunately that can be very difficult to do. Zoning laws make small plots rare and property developers basically control the release of land on the city outskirts and have realised they can slowly release it until the end of time and keep prices artificially high, trickling out 200m2 blocks for $200k. The whole system is screwed and make the dream of this really hard.

      Then getting a builder that is actually available and not going to hike the crap out of your build costs is the next task.

  • Sinnerator on 20/04/2023 - 07:39
    +10

    Extended living in your car is bad for your physical and mental health, this could lead to other serious issues as you will no longer be performing rationally.

    Consider share accommodation, but when this is a realistic option for adults working fulltime you know the social contract between people and the govt is BROKEN.

    Your idea of tent on acreage sounds ok, GLAMPING, get a big tent and turn it into a palace.

    Once again peeps, WHO DID YOU VOTE FOR AND WHAT IS THEIR POLICY ON HOUSING AND IMMIGRATION (and the rich)?

    • Mugsy on 25/04/2023 - 17:29
      +1

      Doesn't matter who we vote for… they all have no workable plan for resolving the this housing crisis.

  • Kayrhcp on 20/04/2023 - 08:02
    +2

    I have a mate who lived out of a van and paid for a gym membership to Anytime Fitness for the shower amenities across the city. Did it for a couple years to save up for a deposit.

    I don’t know how a deposit went in the end but he didn’t mind the lifestyle at all.

  • OBEY YOUR MASTERS on 20/04/2023 - 08:13
    +2

    Any chance you can get a job near your parents and move back with them? That way you can effectively pay zero rent and the kids have people around them who love them at all times. Thats what i did and I'm in the process of building my first house.

    • Stuntdriver on 20/04/2023 - 09:53

      yeah thats always been my fallback position luckily ive always earned good money and been on the ozbargain train and so far no divorce. A good reason to always keep a good relationship with family and dont let petty disagrements fester, you never know when you will need a helping hand.

    • Guerilla89 on 21/04/2023 - 23:51

      Unfortunately my parents live far away so it wouldn't be realistic if I wanted to keep my kids in my life.

  • afah0447 on 20/04/2023 - 08:20
    +1

    Everyone has to live with the choices they make. You decided to marry her and have kids.

    Now to solutions, don't live in your car. If your wife finds out (and she will), you will lose access to the kids. As mentioned above, look into the 2% deposit scheme for single parents and buy a small flat.

    You'll only need $10-$15k for something tiny but it's better than a car and will give you a platform to build on.

    • Motek Benzona on 20/04/2023 - 08:52
      -1

      Your first sentence is totally ridiculous.

      I dont think it was the choice of the OP to have their wages fall so far behind because of rampant inflation and price gouging without adequate compensation. Or did i miss that bit? Maybe he is the one printing all the money? Hey OP, are you that person? I can tell you for certain its not his kids or ex that is causing this either.

      They are not unique in suffering how they are right now BECAUSE OF THINGS OUT OF THEIR CONTROL. That is all

    • Guerilla89 on 21/04/2023 - 23:52

      Thanks for the advice.

  • taradavey on 20/04/2023 - 08:41
    +2

    Firstly I'm sorry that you're struggling and that is leading you to consider living in your car 😔
    Id second what the others said: maybe a share house? Or a small one bedroom or studio while you stick it out and save your deposit?
    Also take a reaaaally thorough look at your outgoings too and see if you can make any cuts:
    - if you have streaming services, cut it down to one, or try and share with a friend
    - drop your internet plan one speed slower, and just deal with slower internet
    - cut your phone plan down. If you have handset repayments, paying it outright and then getting a very cheap sim only plan is cheaper than Optus/testra's plans whether in contract with handset or Sim only (I used moose mobile, now on tangerine telecom who have data banking, amaysim is cheap but I had issues)
    - really go bare bones with food and cut down on luxuries unless they are on a sale
    - definitely always always compare services before paying for insurance, car insurance, etc
    Good luck.

    • Jolakot on 21/04/2023 - 20:07

      This sounds like something The Age would write

  • tsunamisurfer on 20/04/2023 - 08:43

    OP…what is your government wage?

  • Boogerman on 20/04/2023 - 08:56

    What a sad sad society we have.
    Remember, millions of people over time voted for the state of the society that we now have.
    If its any comfort, those people are or eventually will be living out their last years in a nursing home in loneliness, as life's 'dog eat dog' chickens come to home to roost.
    STRAYYAAAAAAAAAA!! YEAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!

    • OBEY YOUR MASTERS on 21/04/2023 - 10:42

      Those negs you got must come from people who voted mainstream. Ha!

  • bes44 on 20/04/2023 - 09:12
    +1

    you could try house sitting? Seems like there is hundreds of houses available

  • Stuntdriver on 20/04/2023 - 09:59
    +1

    have you looked at caravan park? Not sure what is around your area but usually the ones away from tourist areas have permanents living for reasonable price, also if they have some shared facilities i guess a bit of a holiday for kids when they come to stay they might have a pool or playground.

    I feel like living in your car could be a path of no return, could lose your job if you cant show up with clean clothes, decent sleep and not smelling like your living out of your car.

    Other options try to increase your income, can you do similar role in private sector? I know i earn about 70% more in private than i would in public sector same role (although work life balance is not great compared). Other sources of income such as hiring out tools, steam cleaners etc things that people dont use often and are to expensive to buy. We hire out our caravan and other items through facebook marketplace and doesnt make a lot of money but every bit counts.

  • Stoozer on 20/04/2023 - 10:41

    How much is your gross annual income?

  • Speckled Jim on 20/04/2023 - 11:56
    +3

    I'm going to throw this in just so it's covered. Nobody else has suggested it yet, and you should use caution if you're otherwise physically fit, able and meet other selection criteria.

    Have you considered a role in the ADF? It could be along the lines of what you're currently doing, or have previous experience in. You may have to leave Brisbane but that's what leave is for. Ex will have to deal with it, and work to your schedule.

    I suggest this knowing it won't be popular. However, many things will be covered, including accommodation. You could potentially save a decent nest egg in a few short years.

    It worked for this guy.

    • Guerilla89 on 22/04/2023 - 00:46

      I've heard great things about the ADF but only from people who retired 30 years ago or longer. With wars like Afghanistan it seems like we're starting fights that require a determination to follow through on a time scale of lifetimes. That is not a job well suited for a government that changes prime ministers whenever they become unpopular.

      A lot of people gave their life for the Afghanistan war because they thought it would mean something and we just gave up because the politicians ultimately don't care about humanitarian values, only political popularity. Australia can't even manage to ensure all school kids have free access to food when countries like India can, we're also joining every military fight that the US starts. We've definitely lost our way.

      I almost signed up when I was younger and then they asked me if I would be willing to kill someone regardless of the reason, I said no then, it's sure as heck no now. Regardless though, I already work 5 days a week, two nights a week and have the kids 2 days a week and one night a week. I barely have time to go food shopping and keep the house clean.

      • bhubb18 on 24/04/2023 - 12:23

        Theres plenty of non combat roles out there.
        Not really saying its the best option for you, but may be worth considering. Obvioulsy children throws a spanner in the works.

  • Mantzy on 20/04/2023 - 12:06
    +2

    As a government employee (hence am on OZB!), I seriously recommend you also look to skill-up whilst working for Gov. Put it in your PDR and keep asking and asking and asking. Use these skills to move up the food chain and get on a better grade. Also apply for other jobs within government (assuming State), and as you're already in the system, it's easier to get them. Other than that, I'd seriously look to house sharing and either going into a houseshare or subletting (if allowed) your current place. Flatmates.com.au was good for me, as a landlord, for finding someone to houseshare with my (retired, no savings or super) mum to help her pay bills. Your kids won't care, especially when they're young, that you don't live by yourself and you all have to share a room - they'd probably prefer it tbh, i know mine do!

  • Cusacka on 20/04/2023 - 12:07
    +6

    One of the cheapest options can be to rent a whole house, then sublet a couple of rooms out. If you get the right place, e.g. with a separate downstairs you can put people and maintain your privacy it works best. If organised well you should find that the rents your collecting pays nearly all of the rent you're paying.

  • bigsaver on 20/04/2023 - 13:31
    +1

    Why don't list the spare bedroom on Airbnb when kids are away? You didn't mention income but would government employee be too far off the average $60-80K? Child support on that should be less than $500/month if that? I assume the ex doesn't work? Is she claiming all the Centrelink stuff? Go see a financial counsellor to help you with a budget plan

    • Guerilla89 on 22/04/2023 - 00:25

      I thought I would get booted out if I sublet on airbnb, don't the real estate agents have automated reports set up or something?

  • Bargainhunt9 on 20/04/2023 - 15:28
    +1

    As others mentioned, try share housing or a studio or even granny flats. Also, go to Centrelink and see what benefits you might be eligible for. Another thing might be calling companies (water, electricity, etc) as some have hardship options which might reduce your payments even if only temporarily. Sorry to hear that you are in this situation.

  • Frozensage on 20/04/2023 - 18:16
    -1

    things are never as good or as bad as the headlines make out to be. I doubt in this country you would be forced to become homeless unless you tried really hard to be like those who I see outside train stations in cbd. And if a first generation migrant who didnt speak a word of english in their late 30s can afford to buy a house after 10 years, i reckon anybody can make it, just how badly you want it.

    • Guerilla89 on 22/04/2023 - 01:40

      Thanks for your advice. How much did you manage to save as a down-payment after 10 years and how much was the property worth that you purchased?

  • 2esc on 20/04/2023 - 18:52

    Share house is probably your best option or look for a diiferent setup i know a guy who managed to rent a loft space cheap in a factory not zoned residential but his been there 5 years keeping a low profile (no loud music or parties) its worked out for the owner when the factory was broken into the police were rang straight away.

    Housing situation will not change in Australia no matter who is in power doesn't matter if its the major or minor parties.

  • GourmetFoodie on 20/04/2023 - 22:10

    Try and get a better paying job.
    Rent a two bedder and get a flat mate.

  • bobolo on 20/04/2023 - 22:54
    -2

    Hate to say it mate, but you're doing it tough because of you.

    "flat out refuse to" tells me you are a man of principle over compromise. Nothing wrong with that, but just expect day to day struggle as a result

    An increase of $30pw from $350pw should not send you homeless either - even if it's "half your pay". That kind of rental price point is affordable for anyone able enough to work even the lowest paid jobs. Assuming you are an able bodied adult, if you struggle to afford that kind of rent, it's you - not the "system"

    • Jolakot on 21/04/2023 - 22:35

      $380 a week is $19760 a year, someone on full-time minimum wage gets $37300 a year after tax, so it's absolutely possible for it to be more than half his income

      The $30 a week increase is basically him losing 10% of his post-rent income

      • bobolo on 22/04/2023 - 09:53
        -1

        ok I agree but so what? You can't change that at the end of the day. Technically he can still have a roof over his head and choose to accept that situation, or increase his income? (not hard to do at all)

        All I'm saying that at the end of the day its his choice, whether he likes it or not.

    • Guerilla89 on 22/04/2023 - 01:34
      +1

      While individuals such as myself will always be responsible for our own situations, you can't deny housing price/income ratio has gone down the toilet (https://www.rba.gov.au/publications/bulletin/2017/dec/images…). If housing keeps going up and wages keep staying the same because of protective NIMBY actions, it won't be long until a tent city becomes a part of everyone's neighbourhood. Looking abroad they seem to be becoming popular and are gaining in markets similar to ours such as the Canada, France, etc.

      The problem with that is that there is a direct correlation between wealth inequality and violence. Basically if a section of the population feels like they are excluded out of the financial game, they'll just flip the board because they were already going to lose but at least they'll take the power of choice back with their loss. Look it up, it's called the Gini coefficient.

      Even if you or I are not living in that possible future tent city, it sure would be nice to not get stabbed by someone who does.

      • bobolo on 22/04/2023 - 09:49
        -1

        I do not disagree that housing price/income ratio is at extremely inflated levels - but the fact remains that you can choose to be a victim of it or be a part of it - even take advantage of it by slowly building your own wealth

        All the threads about unaffordable housing etc has tonnes of suggestions on how to improve it and all these opinions about what the problems are, but at the end of the day - nothing changes.

        This is the system and society we live in in Australia whether people like it or not. We are all here for (hopefully) 80 years only. We can sit and whinge and be victimised, or we can just power through and live it as best we can.

        • Guerilla89 on 22/04/2023 - 10:41

          You're not wrong. It's definitely easy to fall into despair/victim mode especially because it's the easiest route emotionally and outrage news is the new norm.

  • AustriaBargain on 21/04/2023 - 19:21

    I'm just hoping my landlord doesn't realise if he does even just some basic renovations he could be charging a lot more rent. I've got an informal agreement with him, but I know he's considering illegally letting out some of the windowless rooms in the house for more money, apparently rooms people sleep in must have windows that face the outside. More likely he'll just sell the house. Probably won't even tell me he's sold it until the ink is dry.

  • duluxe2000 on 21/04/2023 - 19:22

    I actually like the idea of living in a re-purposed van if I'm single n save a bunch of money. Get a gym membership so I can shower and travel when I like (if wfh is possible). What can go wrong though ?

    • SpicyStew on 21/04/2023 - 21:14
      +1

      Waking up in the middle of the night to police knocking on van telling you to move on.
      Staying single, no dating or can't bring anyone back to your place.
      Must travel when you don't like as you can't stay in one place for long & spend petrol/time finding good places to park.
      Summer it's hot, winter it's cold. Air con/heaters are too power hungry for small solar/battery setting.

      • trapper on 01/05/2023 - 18:04

        It will begin to take its toll mentally very quickly too.

    • trapper on 01/05/2023 - 18:05

      In most of Australia it's illegal to 'free camp', which includes sleeping in vehicles, so after a couple of warnings you will be getting fines for this.

      Then you end up hiding out at the back of the shops in dogey areas hoping not to get spotted etc

  • SpicyStew on 21/04/2023 - 21:16
    +1

    Increase your pay
    or
    decrease rent by sharing (rent room out or rent a room)

  • DarkOz on 22/04/2023 - 11:00

    Probably 60% for me. You still need 40% for food and other essentials even if you live in your car.

    For the last 3 years, I have seen 2 individuals who lives in their cars next to a council reserve close to where I live. They have good access to public toilets and fresh water from a nearby park across the street. Also there is a Coles only 5 minutes away for cheap food.

    It's definitely doable and would save you $20k-$30k a year. Sometimes I wonder if I could do the same thing and just camp by the lawn at night and pack everything up in the car each morning.

  • Penalty boxer on 22/04/2023 - 11:02

    Hey OP,

    Sorry to hear about your situation and keen to be helpful.

    Any chance you have created a budget broken down your income and outgoings? Maybe there are a few line items we can help with. $80k net of tax should be $60k and assuming $500 a week on rent/utilities that takes you to down to $36k so I know that's not a lot to work with. How much is child support? Do you get access to other government tax offsets/ family tax benefits?

  • BuyoTheCat on 22/04/2023 - 18:39
    +3

    I just want to commend you for prioritising your children.
    Sorry I have nothing useful to add

  • uccoffee on 24/04/2023 - 06:57

    $380 is still cheap , as building cost is still going up internationally, there is no way the rent will stop growing. Negotiate to work from home? Can yousee any Government secret plans in you government job? Follow and invest?

  • ForbiddenCouponJutsu on 24/04/2023 - 08:15
    +1

    I recently was able to get a mortgage which is currently costing around just over 50% of mine and my partners monthly income combined.
    At this point it's manageable but can see it getting a bit tougher if it gets much higher.

    However the only reason why we were even able to save enough for a deposit was by living with family for 2 years rent free.
    In my opinion it's very difficult to save up enough without having the ability to skip rent for a few years.

  • trapper on 01/05/2023 - 17:58

    Do not let yourself become homeless at any cost.

    Sacrifice every other expense first. Seriously.

    Consider a flatmate, that will halve your rent and bills - and you got someone to have a beer with on Friday night.

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