Bandwagon neg'ing

Although I love Ozbargain, I have not always been a fan of the voting mechanism. I have observed that as soon as a post or comment is negged more than once, there is a tendency for others to "jump on the bandwagon". I am talking about situations where people "neg" because they want to "join the fun of putting someone down". I find this a bit disappointing and somewhat similar to bullying. What's worse, I think it discourages people from posting or commenting.

Could this perhaps be avoided by not displaying the tally for neg's? Of course a tally must be kept for the sake of knowing if the balance is + or -. But while the balance is '-', maybe don't show how many people actually negged. Just display a red "-" while the tally is below 0.

I know that this may be hard to implement, and people could perhaps still have a guess at the number of negs for a post, given that each neg is associated with a comment marked as negative. However, for votes on comments at least, I expect it would mitigate the "bandwagon" negging and keep the Ozbargain community more positive. It will also make votes less biased.

Feel free to neg this forum topic though ;)

Comments

  • I know that this may be hard to implement.

    Not at all actually. We've played around a bit more with the whole negative voting thing a while ago and most of the time we have to revert back. I can see what you mean when people pack-neg'ed comments. And to some degree deals although since it's required that you post comment to vote neg on deals, it's rarer there.

    I agree what you've said though. Sadly the mentality of most people here is that since it's Internet I don't have to play nice with people. Negative votes were there to reduce trolls and people posting mis-information, but sometimes have been incorrectly used for attacks.

    Thanks for the suggestion and we'll think a bit more on the solutions.

  • +7

    Neg me if u hate Band-wagon negging

    You just lost the game haha

  • I think things are betterof late.

    At times things do get out of hand; for which report function is there. At times I have noticed comments are unpublished inappropriate or scored below the threshold.

  • +2

    Feel free to neg this forum topic though ;)

    Can't unfortunately, not forum posts. :)

    But seriously I think both pos and neg should be displayed rather than the sum. At least it would show up posts that have both pros and cons instead of just ending up around zero.

  • So true Make it so and Scotty.People on this site DO hide behind their laptop and just be aholes for the sake of it and belittle for the the slightest oversight.I have thought about leaving here because of this,but as you do with bullies at school,i have decided they aren't feeding,financing or effing me SO THEIR OPINION MEANS LESS THAN SQUAT TO ME….therefore i stay.People who do bully and become nasty consistently should be given a "three strikes your out" warning i think.

    • Personal attacks are taken seriously and the offenders are usually binned. I think you may be referring to rude or those with a negative tone. That's a bit trickier. It still is useful if people report their concerns using the report button.

    • People who do bully and become nasty consistently should be given a "three strikes your out" warning i think

      If there's any person attack you can report them and moderator will access the case. Yes we do put accounts into penalty box for personal attacks.

  • -1

    Have said many times before…. (broken record :-) ). Just remove the neg vote completely…….. problem solved.
    It currently serves no useful purpose on this site other than to give trolls and mischief makers something to play with.
    All deals start equal….. good deals rise to the top by positive votes, crap deals go nowhere. The 'no vote' becomes the neg.

    • I think the discussion is mostly about comment negging, not deal negging. The latter is a smaller proportion since neggers have to at least try to explain.

      • would also work with comments…… all comments start equal……
        The only useful reason for negs on comments at present is to remove inappropriate negative votes…..

        • I think of 'bandwagon-negging' more as crowd-sourced moderating, I believe most people do it to try and get a stupid/offtopic/inflammatory/sockpuppet/etc comment below the viewing threshold, other people are welcome to vote the comment back up again if they do not agree.
          I think this only applies to comments and have a very differing view on deals. My 2c.

        • I don't have a problem with "crowd moderation". My problem is only with people who neg because a bunch of other people did, and they want to join in for the heck of it. Of course if a comment is not view-worthy then it deserves to be negged and hidden as a result.

    • The 'no vote' becomes the neg.

      That would not be a right assumption. I don't vote much on comments, occasionally +1 for those with informative comments, and I believe many also don't vote that often either. That don't translate to neg votes.

      And current neg votes do help hide comments and remove invalid negative votes. I think it's mainly a small pool of people who abuse negative votes. Taking it away and they will still attack via comments.

      So do report and moderators will access and take care. We are also trying to work out more automated system to temporarily take away privileges, as being able to vote -1 can be considered to be a privilege that people need to earn.

      • That would not be a right assumption. I don't vote much on comments, occasionally +1 for those with informative comments, and I believe many also don't vote that often either. That don't translate to neg votes.

        indeed it wouldn't….. that would be because they would be obsolete (as indeed they are now).
        As you say, many don't vote pos on comments…. therefore the comments that do get many pos votes are likely to be the ones that are useful and should be read. These pos voted comments might also be 'negative' comments about the deal…. current system removes the option to view those comments after the post has been negged a few times.

      • Taking it away and they will still attack via comments.

        I'm not sure that's true…. the neg votes have an effect…. either removing a post and banning someone from posting deals for 5 days, or the comment fades and disappears. People can choose to ignore comments…. they can't do anything about the 'physical' consequences

  • +2

    "I find this a bit disappointing and somewhat similar to bullying."
    wow, bullying? really? negging is simply peoples opinions.

    maybe im missing them, but the only time ive seen huge negging it was for good reason. care to link me to where this "bullying" is happening?

  • +3

    It is happening! And so is trolling. Example: today a guy commented: "Neg the deal if you don't like Pentax". I mean how is that constructive. That is just the tip of the iceberg. There is a lot worse going on. I do agree that if people believe they are anonymous they do nasty stuff. Basically, do not write any comment that you would not say to your superior or your wife in person for example. Treat everybody with respect and be constructive rather than destructive.
    And yes, I agree with the statement that quite a few people think about or have thought about staying away from OZbargain as often people get ripped to shreds on occasion - for no real reason and with no apparent purpose and outcome other than that those people (and other who also do not like the bullying) will simply not post deals anymore. So on the whole it is bad for everybody.

    • +1

      will simply not post deals anymore

      I haven't posted a deal for well over a year because of this ….

      • Same here, and dont positive vote generally

        • Have to agree here and know Gallifrey was a recent victim of the ozbargain , hmm what can we call them? - anyways it does put you off posting a bargain, the exact reason I have refrained from doing it now. Love the site so much, its my new addiction but the truth is you can ignore those ruining it but it is definitely having an impact, well must be putting people off from getting involved, posting bargains, I just know it.

    • ""Neg the deal if you don't like Pentax"" <— i hope you (and others) reported that post then. posts like that are reasons to have a report button not a reason to remove the neg button or to complain about "bandwagoning".

      • That comment was already reported and hidden by a moderator within half an hour.

    • I may be wrong, but I don't recall him mentioning the word "deal". So I interpreted it as neg his comment if you don't use/like Pentax. I don't think he was ever asking for it to be on the deal considering how he was whining about inappropriate negs in the cleaning deal….

    • also by having the ability to downvote (and hide, along with report button) troll posts like "downvote this deal if blah blah" you are actually helping to fix the problem of trolls, so to remove the neg button in your case would actually be worse and simply give more power to the trolls..

      • we all know that ignoring the trolls as far as is possible is the best strategy….. I'm sure a troll feels success when they have a physical record of their activity, ie a wad of neg votes on a comment.

    • Just for the record, the original comment was: "Neg if you don't own a Pentax camera."

      Edit: But the point is, it wasn't an appropriate comment, it was reported, and it was unpublished as Scotty mentioned.

  • To me…. we only need a 'like' and a 'report' button…. for posts and comments alike.
    Good deals get lots of likes, and are highlighted, comments similarly so (differing levels of boldness/colour perhaps).
    I would imagine for the people that have genuine 'neg' information about a deal, it must be incredibly frustrating for them to take time informing what is wrong with the product or retailer, to have it disappear under the weight of 'me too', 'price in title!!!', 'location!!!', 'I don't like it!', etc etc neg votes. It also means the community miss out on what could be vital information.

    • Completely agree

      • I agree as well.

    • Potentially going to happen here……

      http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/77428

      Couple of 'me too' negs will take out the lengthy useful comment for most users…..
      Have reported the first one, but no action taken.

  • +2

    I think some people need a thicker skin.. A neg vote doesn't hurt u nor does anyone look down on you for getting negged. Just move on and forget about it. If you care so much you are giving the neggers the power they want.

    • +2

      You have a point but I do not see why the people who are respectful of others should bow to those who are not. This is again a case where the minority seems to dictate the rules for the majority or put in other words, it is the minority that spoils it for the majority.
      Not acceptable. If you cannot control your biases when in fron of a PC stay away from it.
      I bet most trolls and constant neggers would not use the tone and language when talking to people in person (especially if that person is bigger and stronger than them!) so why do it online?
      Instead of people geting a thicker thin what about those other people getting some brains and learning some manners and respect? I think this is the right approach.

      • +1

        how can it only be the minority AND also be many jumping on the bandwagon?

        if a post has majority support (or just generally liking) people will hit the plus button. how can a minority do anything to change that?

        if the "minority" happen to "jump on the bandwagon" and downvote something good/valuable then people who read it and like it will upvote it and bring it back to where it should be will it not? how can it possibly work out any other way?

        • 200 people out of 5000 is the minority.
          Also, many people vote neg as some people quickly shoot and say 'This is not a deal" only to then say later "Oops, sorry not the same item" or the compare apples with oranges such as an Apple Ipad with an Ainol pad. Yes, they are both tablets but nobody would compare a Porsche 911 to a Holden Barina although they are both cars (not the same category though).

        • something good/valuable then people who read it and like it will upvote it and bring it back to where it should be

          If it's a post, how can people read it and upvote it if it has been removed?

          how can a minority do anything to change that?

          It only takes a couple of neg votes for a post to disappear to the majority of users

    • +1

      I think some people need a thicker skin.. A neg vote doesn't hurt u nor does anyone look down on you for getting negged.

      It's just unnecessary…….

      If you care so much you are giving the neggers the power they want.

      clearly you recognise that the neg vote does give people some power….. why give them the weapons to achieve that?

      • +1

        the neg button has the same "power" as the positive one…. and the report has more power than both of them combined.

        • pos votes maintain the status quo, neg votes remove…. not the same power at all

          Post with three positives, remains…… post with 3 negs, gone to most users.

          same with comments

        • +1

          wow really? i assume your talking about "status quo ante" and not so much the english rock band?

          taken from a certain wiki page…

          the original Latin "statu quo" – literally "the state in which"

          Status quo ante is Latin for "the way things were before"

          or did you mean
          Status Quo, also colloquially known as The Quo or just Quo, are an English rock band

          so, sorry to say… but neither the plus or the minus keeps the status quo "the state in which" because they both change "the state in which"…. maybe thats your real issue with the neg button? it points out who speaks first and thinks second?

        • +1

          yes… the rock band…..

    • +2

      Please show me where to buy this thicker skin, maybe you should post it as a bargain :)

      • Sorry thicker skins cannot be bought, only earned. Maybe that's your problem ;)

        • Perhaps lol

        • ^ See you're earning it already!!!

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