Driving question because maybe I don't know how to drive..

roozmik on 17/05/2023 - 16:55
Last edited 19/05/2023 - 09:43

There is this route I go down regularly, but every time I go down it, I always question what I'm supposed to do…
I see people do different things, which doesn't help.. then I also do different things.

The street is a narrow suburban street with a cross road as pictured.

The blue and red cars are facing a stop sign.

There is often a long line of blue and red cars banked up.

I am in the first blue car. When can I turn right?

https://imgur.com/a/whJuGwp

  • The orange cars are just for context.. there can be a steady stream of those cars too.

— edit 19/05 ——————————————————————————————-

I think what I'm really trying to ask is:

If the first red car is going straight (more often than not), why can't I enter the road at the same time, wait, & not cut his path?
Very similar to how people wait in the intersection when there isn't an active "turn right arrow" at the traffic light.

Then after he has passed, shouldn't I be able to turn right? and because I'm in the intersection already, the second red car should wait?

Obviously, orange cars have the right of way, but if we remove them from the equation at the moment…
This way, both red and blue lanes of traffic move steadily. It doesn't seem right that blue should just STOP for eternity.

Poll Options

  • 6
    Go first
  • 40
    After the first red car goes. (Because the second red car will have to move up and then Stop?)
  • 362
    After all of the red cars go.
  • 4
    No idea
Automotive

Comments

    • BartholemewH on 20/05/2023 - 20:26

      You mean turn right on the last one? Otherwise you'll be smiling as you hit fenders.

  • TEER3X on 17/05/2023 - 17:48

    If you have an American licence, VicRoads will give you an Australian license without a test if you live here.

    So, armed with that knowledge, it's the first person that arrives at the stop sign that has right of way. What's awesome is there's 4-way stop signs over there, and also 2-way stop signs, so the number one cause of accidents is running stop signs.

  • Davo1111 on 17/05/2023 - 17:58

    Main road gets priority, obviously

    If the oncoming traffic has a stop sign too, you go as they havent stopped. by which time you're already in the intersection, and they have to give way.

    • roozmik on 17/05/2023 - 18:07

      Did you vote?

    • AustriaBargain on 18/05/2023 - 23:39

      What if they don't stop because they are illegally going with the flow, and they only stop when more orange cars come which also would block OP?

      • Davo1111 on 19/05/2023 - 00:34

        So they went through a stop sign, without stopping

  • Euphemistic on 17/05/2023 - 18:07
    +1

    My interpretation: If you get to a stop sign you have to stop first, then give way. If a red car and a blue car are both stopped at the same time blue car needs to give way to red. If the blue car is stopped and the red car is not yet stopped, the blue car can go before the red car stops if there are no orange cars - but this means you need to trust the red car to actually stop. Not all cars will properly stop at a stop sign, especially if they are rushing to get into a busy intersection.

    Best option: avoid that intersection if your car is blue and you are turning right.

    • Hellfire on 17/05/2023 - 18:15

      This will really only work if the red car is asleep at the wheel. You won't clear the intersection before they are ready to continue after stopping.

      • Euphemistic on 17/05/2023 - 18:18

        If you are in the intersection they need to give way to you.

        My kid recently did driver training and was basically told don’t bother looking for traffic until you’ve stopped. Ergo, stopping is the priority before giving way.

        Note: not sure of the actual legalities of this but seems to make sense.

        • Hellfire on 17/05/2023 - 18:29

          Your kid probably took it out of context. You need to give way to traffic approaching an intersection, not just those entering (or in it). You can't turn right here if there are cars coming from the other direction (red cars) unless they are turning right also.

          Edit: of course you can't purposefully crash into the car if they have done the wrong thing by turning in front of you. All drivers are required to avoid collisions if possible.

          • Euphemistic on 17/05/2023 - 19:03
            +1

            @Hellfire: Perhaps you took my kid’s example out of context. The instructor told the kid to stop then look because it means you aren’t tempted to roll through because you haven’t looked yet. It’s not a comment on this particular situation per se.

            Yes. You need to give way to traffic approaching, but IMO you don’t get to go until after you’ve stopped, so there is the opportunity to assess that the other car will stop and therefore not be required to give way to.

            I’ve come across this a few times, not so much on bush roads, but when a red and a blue car approach a stop sign. The blue car will often go before the red car if turning across the red but ONLY IF the red car is stopping but hasn’t yet stopped. Is it right? Is it legal? No real idea, but it seems to work.

  • bobbified on 17/05/2023 - 19:02
    +1

    Someone decided they couldn't be stuffed thinking about putting proper controls at the intersection so they put stop signs on both sides to let people fight it out themselves 😂

    The rule is, the blue car waits for every other car to go first (except if a red car is turning right, then you should both be able to go at the same time and just pass each other without colliding).

    Have you seen the four-way intersections with stop signs for all four directions?

    • Euphemistic on 17/05/2023 - 19:07
      +1

      Stop sign intersections like this work well in low traffic situations. Obviously it isn’t suited to very busy places like OP describes.

      • bobbified on 17/05/2023 - 19:09

        They rarely "update" the signage for "smaller" intersections. MIght've worked at a particular time, but a slight change to traffic further down in any direction can screw it up so easily.

      • leiiv on 17/05/2023 - 21:35
        +1

        Even no signs at all also work well on a "low traffic situation"..

  • pharkurnell on 17/05/2023 - 19:07
    -2

    Red and blue have stop signs.. probgably means they need to stop and wait.

    Orange cars have clear right of passage with no stop signs… They keep going.
    then the other 2 can go..

    what am I missing here?

    • Euphemistic on 17/05/2023 - 19:12

      Blue wants to turn across red’s path but can’t because by the time they are ready to go there’s another red car waiting.

      • pharkurnell on 17/05/2023 - 19:15

        How I see it.

        They don't need to go physically pass (drivers door to drivers door) each other then turn..
        They turn before passing each other… (passengers door to passengers door)

        • Flying Ace on 17/05/2023 - 20:06

          Look at the diagram again. Red cars are going straight, blue cars are turning right. As the OP is turning in front of a red car, they (blue car) has to wait until there are no red cars.

          • skid on 17/05/2023 - 21:39

            @Flying Ace: Think the red car is indicating right. That's what the red circle designates.

            • miwahni on 17/05/2023 - 21:49
              +2

              @skid: Red circle designates the stop sign I think.

              • pharkurnell on 18/05/2023 - 10:01
                -2

                @miwahni: If all cars are going straight with only 2 having STOP signs… OP needs to hand license in immediately

              • roozmik on 18/05/2023 - 10:52

                @miwahni: yes, it's a stop sign - hexagon is all that ms paint had.

            • pharkurnell on 18/05/2023 - 09:57

              @skid: could be anything really

        • Euphemistic on 18/05/2023 - 10:00

          If both red and blue are turning right they can go at the same time. Turning ‘in front’ of each other. If either is going straight, the other can’t turn right (assuming they’ve both stopped and are now giving way to orange)

  • jaffar on 17/05/2023 - 19:12
    +1

    Is the red car turning left, right, or going straight? (Red turn left, you give way. Red turn right… well shit). I would let red cars turning left go first and if red wants to go right too then it's basically whoever goes first or both cars awkwardly shuffle around each other. Either way sounds like a horrid intersection.

  • localhost on 17/05/2023 - 19:13
    +1

    Add another poll option: don't use this road…

  • Wiadro on 17/05/2023 - 19:16
    +1

    omg how is this even a question, go hand your licence in

    • pharkurnell on 17/05/2023 - 19:19
      +2

      I think that quite regularly on this forum with these questions…. then I go watch Dashcams Au on utoob….

      fawkin terrifying…

    • Gunnar on 17/05/2023 - 21:06
      +1

      In their defense the OP does imply they are clueless in the title

  • battler on 17/05/2023 - 19:19
    +1

    Turn left, do an illegal u-turn then become part of the steady stream of orange.

    • Donaldhump on 17/05/2023 - 20:10

      crap i just said the same thing below

      • battler on 17/05/2023 - 21:08

        and you get more upvotes… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

        • Donaldhump on 18/05/2023 - 07:37
          +1

          ROFL how funny, must have been the use of the word "sick"

          you need to throw in a bogan descriptor

  • pharkurnell on 17/05/2023 - 19:39

    Get a set if magnetic flashing blue and red lights off ebay that plug into ciggy lighter…Stick em on ya roof for 5 mins….everyone will wait for u.

  • Donaldhump on 17/05/2023 - 20:09
    +7

    go left for 100m, do a sick u turn and the red cars must wait for you

  • brownsound on 17/05/2023 - 21:08
    +2

    only the strong have what it takes to wait for all the red cars to disappear

  • Brian McGee on 17/05/2023 - 21:16
    +1

    Once all orange and red cars have cleared the intersection.
    Personally I would find an alternate route with lights or where I can do a left (or series of left) turn/s if the intersection really is that busy.

  • leiiv on 17/05/2023 - 21:32

    That is just a bad road design. Fine if it is a quiet rural area, but other than that..
    The practical solution is, it depends. Not every red or blue will go straight or turn left.
    But @Donaldhump is right, better if both red and blue cars don't turn right because it will unnecessarily block traffic. Just turn left and do a u turn (if possible).

  • lovepub on 18/05/2023 - 09:47
    +2

    Better just write to city council and ask them to put up a traffic light.
    Wait till election time or wait till some unlucky person gets hit and badly injured or dead , then they will make the traffic light

  • azero on 18/05/2023 - 10:02

    The correct answer is not in the poll, it is after all the other cars have gone. Or else after all the red cars are gone AND you can find a safe gap between orange cars that are going both ways

  • Herbse on 18/05/2023 - 10:12
    +4

    https://youtu.be/FkbfzgRNx4I

    You give way to red if they're going straight or turning (their) left.

    If they're turning (their) right, then you can avoid hitting them and turn (your) right.

    • Dreamcast on 18/05/2023 - 10:28
      +1

      Agreed.

    • ameel on 18/05/2023 - 21:09

      what's been said

  • Munki on 18/05/2023 - 10:12

    I see where the problem lies. Your stop signs (according to your paint image) aren't conventional octagons. This must be causing confusion, surely.

    • Herbse on 18/05/2023 - 10:16

      I want to know how he got those nice rounded corners on the streets?

      • Munki on 18/05/2023 - 10:19

        Rounded rectangle tool.

        • Herbse on 18/05/2023 - 10:19

          Ms paint has come a long way since I used it last then

  • Johnny L on 18/05/2023 - 10:25
    +1

    is this the intersection at Auburn Road? if yes, trust me, just turn left or avoid the intersection altogether

  • Poor Ass on 18/05/2023 - 10:25
    +1

    OP should put both blue and red cars are turning right

    Then we'll see some interesting results

    • Herbse on 18/05/2023 - 10:54
      +1

      Scrape each others mirrors while turning

      • Poor Ass on 18/05/2023 - 10:55

        both at fault for insurance

  • Dreamcast on 18/05/2023 - 10:28

    Become a bikie and then it's always your right of way.

    • Herbse on 18/05/2023 - 10:54

      Or a Toyota Camry driver

  • Cluster on 18/05/2023 - 10:58
    +1

    I have a similar question to the OP's, in terms of giving way at an intersection, but it has the added complexity of one road always giving way to another.

    https://www.tumblr.com/tabitjawilhoit/717615094163488768?sou…

    • Churchhill Road has giveway signs. Must give way to Patapinda.
    • Yellow car is turning right
    • Blue car is turning left
    • Blue car has very feintly painted dashed line in front of it (red dots). Many drivers don't see it.

    Which car gives way? Blue car should obviously give way to anyone coming from the right, but yellow car should also give way to anyone oncoming or turning left (like at traffic lights). But Blue car has a dashed line in front.

    I've seen both scenarios happen. Blue waits for yellow, yellow waits for blue.

    • bargaino on 18/05/2023 - 11:25
      +3

      Simple. Blue is on a slip road, and must always give way, regardless of road-surface markings.

      A clear diagram here:
      https://www.nsw.gov.au/driving-boating-and-transport/roads-s…

      However it may not always be clear to everyone that this is a slip-lane rather than a left-turn lane.
      It looks like a dangerous, badly designed intersection to me. I don't blame the yellow car for being cautious.

  • Doobies on 18/05/2023 - 11:38
    +2

    Let the first red car go, but start moving at the same time and swing in behind them.

    If the (profanity) runs the stop sign it's 50/50. You breached 67(3), they breached 67(1)(2).

  • JJlikes2eat on 18/05/2023 - 11:45
    +1

    For Victoria: watch the Giving way at intersections video

    https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/road-r…

  • GOCAT9 on 18/05/2023 - 12:09

    Gee that’s scary. All those people that did not vote for the third option ( the only correct one) are a danger to you and I on our roads. No wonder there are accidents when there are people who don’t know the road rules. How did they ever get their licences? Were they trained by their (in some cases equally ignorant) parents?

    • lostgoat on 18/05/2023 - 12:12

      Ain't people allowed to never drive and snap all the hottest Ozb specials that fall in 5 secs ?

    • Cluster on 18/05/2023 - 12:15

      It's how we get all those great Dashcam Australia compilation videos

    • Flying Ace on 18/05/2023 - 12:40

      Because so many people think being "courteous" is better than being predictable.

    • Blargman2001 on 18/05/2023 - 13:10

      But then we wouldn't be amused by the "I'm uninsured and got in to accident at an intersection after I failed to give way, do I have to pay the other driver for damages?" post.

    • Euphemistic on 18/05/2023 - 16:07

      The third option is correct if both cars are stopped. If the red car has not yet stopped (one has just moved off and they are still moving forward to the line), blue car could enter the intersection turning right - provided they had already been stopped. However, that is a risky move not knowing if the red car is actually going to stop.

      • roozmik on 18/05/2023 - 16:09

        Doesn't this mean option 2 is correct? It's only risky because the second red car is not coming to a complete stop as they should

        • Mistredo on 18/05/2023 - 23:22

          Even if they stop it does not leave you with much time to do your maneuver, and they will expect you let them go first. It is very risky, but in theory yes, they are not at the stop line yet, so you should be able to go (assuming there are no orange cars which makes it more difficult because you should check for them and by that time the opposite car will be already at the stop line).

  • 42 on 18/05/2023 - 13:42

    Should be before all the red cars that are going straight or turning left. Should be able to turn right if the red car is also turning right

  • RolandWaites on 18/05/2023 - 14:55
    +1

    Allow the first red car to go. If the intersection is clear and the second red car is still approaching the stop sign, you then go. If the second red car has reached the stop sign and come to a halt, you must wait for them.

  • Willy Beamish on 18/05/2023 - 14:56

    Go straight, do a u-turn and then turn left.
    Cut out the situation entirely

    • Euphemistic on 18/05/2023 - 16:03
      -1

      Probably better to go left then u-turn so you don’t end up in the queue of red cars.

  • yamahamoto on 18/05/2023 - 15:25

    For me I will drive up to the middle indicate right and wait for all red cars to go before turning right.

  • stealthpaw on 18/05/2023 - 15:46

    The principals i generally abide by are: Indicators always give way to everything else, then minor roads gives way to major roads, then whoever has to cross more lanes gives way.

  • Homr on 18/05/2023 - 15:50
    +1

    My boy is always late home from school because of this

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pWTh092mz8

  • Miss B on 18/05/2023 - 15:55
    +1

    Do this carefully.

    https://ibb.co/DbgQTwj

    I'm not very observant, but from what I can see there's no difference between the situation for red or blue. So everyone will be sitting there all day if you wait for each other.

    • Miss B on 18/05/2023 - 16:04

      Okay, I see the difference now. If the red cars are going straight you definitely have to wait for them if you're turning right. I mistook the stop signs for the flash of the (very bright) indicator.

  • Kremleen on 18/05/2023 - 15:56
    +1

    To anyone who chooses the third option, answer me this: (I live in Vic)

    Why do you need to give way to a red car turning right? That car has not entered the main road, is not going straight or turning left and is facing a stop sign. The red car turning right is an exact mirror image of the blue car. If you flip the question, as a red car, why do you have the right to go first? No where in the road rules says this.

    My answer is whichever side enters the main road first goes. If both go at the same time, just avoid each other and turn right.

    • Cluster on 18/05/2023 - 17:13

      Both red and blue have a stop sign. The key difference is blue has to cross an oncoming lane of traffic. Blue has to give way to red cars going straight, so they should give way to a red car turning left as well.

      • Kremleen on 18/05/2023 - 18:18

        Doesn't red have to cross an oncoming lane of traffic as well to make a right turn?

        Well, I agree with you that blue has to give way to red cars going straight or turning left but red cars in this scenario is turning right too don't they?

  • kaleidoscope on 18/05/2023 - 17:46
    +2

    You are at a stop line.

    A) If you're turning left, you have to give way to the orange cars moving in that direction. If a red car has already started turning on to where you are going to go, you have to give way to them as well.

    B) If you're going straight, you have to give way to orange cars on both lanes and also if a red car has started to turn right (from their perspective)

    C) If you're turning right, you have to give way to orange cars on both lanes and if a red car that has already started to make a move (left/ right/ straight) and then you can make a move.

    This is based on the vic road rules where it states, vehicles approaching stop line has to come to a complete stop before proceeding. So when the first car on red line moves, next one has to come to a complete stop and if you're already at the stop line before them, you can make your move.

  • Tomcruise on 18/05/2023 - 19:48

    OPTION 2, provided NO mote Orange cars go through. Otherwise next RED car will have STOPPED and youll have to Giveway again, unless they are nice and waive you through.

  • stalker878 on 18/05/2023 - 21:19
    +1

    i think it would depend on what the red car is signaling to do.
    if the red car is turning left (from the prospective of the driver in the red car), you will have to give way
    if the red car is going straight, you will have to give way.
    if the red car is turning right (from the prospective of the driver in the red car), you will have equal say and it will be a case of give and take.

  • MonkEE on 18/05/2023 - 21:38
    +1

    Turn left and go loop around. It would be much safer.

  • gviddy on 18/05/2023 - 21:58
    -3

    You go first because you are turning into the main road. The other car has to give way to anything already on that road.

    • skid on 19/05/2023 - 09:27

      Now that's an interesting perspective. Not sure how widely it is accepted.

    • Hangryuman on 19/05/2023 - 10:42

      wrong - the red cars are also turning into the main road

  • frugalftw on 19/05/2023 - 07:19
    -2

    You always give way to cars coming to your right. In this scenario it is literally every one else. It can take hours so pack snacks or find another way.

    Also not all red cars understand this so they will wait for you to go at times.

    • Euphemistic on 19/05/2023 - 12:43

      You always give way to cars coming to your right.

      That’s not a rule.

      • frugalftw on 19/05/2023 - 13:04

        Lol That is literally on vic roads. Maybe you are from a different state? Thanks for the -1 anyway.

        • mapax on 19/05/2023 - 13:25

          Post a link to it

          • frugalftw on 19/05/2023 - 13:26

            @mapax: Why? I am not on trial. It's on the first page of google results. I comment to help, take it or leave it.

            • Euphemistic on 19/05/2023 - 17:24

              @frugalftw: Generally if you offer an opinion about something being a rule you should be able to back it up. It’s very hard for me to prove it doesn’t exist if my assertion is true. ‘Give way to the right’ is an outdated way to think about the road rules. It is very rare to come across an intersection where it would actually apply as traffic engineers prefer to put signs up to determine which direction should give way.

              https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/rules/road/give-way#….

              At an unsigned crossroad, you must give way to all vehicles approaching from your right. But if you want to turn right, you must give way to all oncoming vehicles too.

              A quote from qld, seems the vic rules are similar but this quote seemed more apt.

              So it’s not ‘always give way to your right’ besides, in this case the stop signs indicate differently or the orange cars would need to give way to either blue or red as well depending on which way they are travelling.

            • Eeples on 20/05/2023 - 01:25

              @frugalftw: Because you made a claim.

              And aren’t the red cars and blue cars on each other’s right?

  • ShMiCk on 19/05/2023 - 07:52

    This is just bad road design…

    If blue is turning right and both red cars are going straight you have 2 options;

    • let first red car go straight, then you can go right straight away if it’s “safe to do so” as legally, the second red car must come to a stop at the stop sign for at least one second before crossing, which MIGHT give you time to turn.

    • having said that, you aren’t allowed to obstruct the flow of traffic, so depending on your driving technique, might not have enough time.

    It’s like the first comment on this post said, playing game of chicken.

    • BobLim on 19/05/2023 - 23:47

      at least one second

      Source?

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