Scammed by Gumtree Buyer, Suggestions Required

LEducatedfool on 02/07/2023 - 06:49

I have sold my new phone to the gumtree buyer. I did not aware he is scammer until the payment disappeared from my bank transactions.

Bank is escaping from their responsibilities and will not investigate or dispute as they only do for payment going outside.

I have found from simple google searches,he is using the my phone on his no. he is not attending my calls.

I reported to police but waiting for them to take action. Thinking of contacting Current affairs and finanicial omsbudman

is there any way I can find his street address with the phone no ? or any better way I can approach to this issue. Ozbargainers please suggest.

I have asked my mobile provider to block the phone. but the service provider saying they may or may not do it. I am powerless. even though the scammer can be easily found and punished..

Video footage of him is everywhere.no one able to provide me due to privacy reason.

The system here is more of helping scammers than to the General public..

General Discussion

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Comments

              • resisting the urge on 05/07/2023 - 06:30
                -1

                @gromit: If this was the case surely they'd be withholding funds from new payers, not new payees.

                Once someone has bought from you before, there is less chance of a problem. Withholding payment from a new buyer OTOH, in which time they can cancel, just enables scams.

                Banks put a hold on outbound funds to new payees to protect from the number of people who fat finger the payee details in the app/web-form. They care about their own arses, not disabling the armies of scammers gaming their outdated methods that allow reversible and/or delay-able payments to poorly authenticated destinations.

          • bathuu on 03/07/2023 - 13:02

            @ronnknee: Agree CBA is shit with PayID, other banks are instant.

    • Excelsior on 03/07/2023 - 10:10
      +2

      I've sold countless things on FB Marketplace and more than half were PayID transactions done in person, never had any issues.

    • bathuu on 03/07/2023 - 13:06
      +1

      Sold and bought numerous times with PayID. PayID is not a problem itself. People dont know much about PayID fall for scammers fake emails regarding PayID. If buyer asking for email as well phone number, then expect scam email from them.

      • TightLikeThisx on 03/07/2023 - 13:39
        +1

        Illegitimate PayID transactions are reversible. Sure most of these scams use other tricks but if someone uses a hacked bank account to purchase something from you with PayID and it gets reported to the bank the money will be reversed. You will have no item and no money.

        • resisting the urge on 05/07/2023 - 06:41
          +2

          Putting money in a bank connected to the Internet is simply not safe. PayID and Osko have not helped this- they just make transactions possible via a new identifier (phone no.) and in some cases, quicker. Reversibility and post-transaction failures are still possible, as what we think are transactions are little different to lodgements in the Bank's eyes. If they can find a way to stop themselves losing money, or comply with the law, the ATO, or a court ruling, they will.

          Esp. now your email address is enough to cross reference your medicare, address, bank account details, phone number and sometimes last good credit card.

          And it isn't because any of this can't be kept (relatively) safe. They do what they like with your PII, as they've been doing for years with our money (happily reversing cheques/transactions/blocking access to funds). So they share it, barter/sell it, and even publicise it online.

          None of the major banks (any banking institution really, inc. ABA, APRA, ASIC, ACMA, included) give AF about account holders, and neither does gov 'lite' (major parties), because they only take so long to give us what they think we want, not what we need. In this case, basic personal privacy, transaction immutability, atomicity, destination assurance.

        • moph on 06/07/2023 - 16:00

          This is correct, but it's a tiny risk compared to the more common "PayID" scams, or like the scam done to OP, that are attempted with nearly everyone who lists anything on Gumtree or FB marketplace. It's like the risk of an item you are buying on the second hand marketplace being stolen property - you might size the person up, make some assessment of how likely it is that this person would legitimately own that type of thing, whether their story makes sense - but when it comes down to it, there's always a risk there. Still, many people are willing to take that risk because it's extremely rare for the bad outcome to happen, and most people never experience it.

  • bargain crazy on 02/07/2023 - 08:07

    Can you go to the manufacturer and ask them to block it as it is stolen.
    You would have to provide the proof of ownership…

    • Educatedfool on 02/07/2023 - 08:23
      -2

      I did but the manufacture can't do anything. suggested to reach to Mobile service provider to block. their customer support saying they requested but it may or may not block.

      • bargain crazy on 02/07/2023 - 08:31
        +2

        Looks like they are correct, did you try reaching out to your mobile service provider whom you were using on that phone?
        https://amta.org.au/lost-and-stolen-mobiles/

        • Educatedfool on 02/07/2023 - 08:39

          Yes I did. I provided the phone IMEI code. They advised me they requested but it may or may not block.

          • ATangk on 03/07/2023 - 01:59
            +9

            @Educatedfool: Don't tell them you sold it. Tell them it was stolen.

  • tomleonhart on 02/07/2023 - 08:10
    +6

    People still don't take cash for transaction on scumtree ?

    • Educatedfool on 02/07/2023 - 08:27
      +7

      scammer told OSKO direct transfer . money appeared in my account balance. the agent lady who came to pick disappeared quickly. subsequent checks on my account shocked me that it was a cheque transfer. he used the flaw in the ATM cheque deposits. I am not sure if my ignorance played a big part in this scam..

      • tomleonhart on 02/07/2023 - 08:30
        +11

        yeah. That's why i only take cold hard cash before handing over the goods. Hopefully lesson learnt for you and many others who may read this thread.

        • Educatedfool on 02/07/2023 - 08:34
          +7

          True. My first and worst experience…Costly lesson. scammer using my phone on his no with no fear of getting caught is hurting me a lot. I did not care about the money that lost. but the experience is hurting me a lot.

          • CocaKoala on 03/07/2023 - 14:05
            +1

            @Educatedfool: I understand how that must feel. Take it as a learning experience and don't stress yourself out.

        • [Deactivated] on 02/07/2023 - 12:50
          +1

          Cash, PayID is fine.

          We've all been there over the years, some of them are very good.

        • lost in transit on 02/07/2023 - 14:15
          +2

          Imagine the scams when it’s fazed out for digital…

      • solidussnake on 02/07/2023 - 08:37
        +2

        How many red flags did find you find acceptable before you got scammed

      • SydBoy on 02/07/2023 - 09:48

        what you mean ATM cheque deposits ? because even in that case cheque needs to be deposited and then go to bank to cancel it so it can't happen instantly as you explaining.. and most personal cheque status don't get cleared on account straight away … as it normally stays as pending first and then clear .. talk to your bank as to why they allowed money to go out once settled… !

        • randomusername2017 on 02/07/2023 - 10:36
          +1

          This used to be possible with commbank accounts. Deposit cheque at first ATM, withdraw as cash at another ATM. Funds would be reversed 24-48 hrs later when cheque was reconciled.

          • Educatedfool on 02/07/2023 - 13:25
            +3

            @randomusername2017: It is samebank.Thats why going financial omsbudman. they indirectly helping scammers. without any authentication the scammers use these ATM flaws..

            • randomusername2017 on 02/07/2023 - 13:36
              +5

              @Educatedfool: LOL… good to see they still have this feature 30 years later!

              Old school scammers would hang out at commonwealth ATM with stolen cheque books, wait for a customer to use the machine, convince the customer to deposit the dodgy cheque in their account and offer them a percentage of the cash withdrawn…. so cash was not always king, days later the account holder would wear bounced cheque fees and fund reversals.

          • SydBoy on 02/07/2023 - 19:11

            @randomusername2017: Sorry, I am trying to understand what you are explaining.

            If scammer used personal cheque and deposited in ATM with OP name and account number then ATM takes the cheque inside ATM so how would scammer go to next ATM and withdraw it as cash from OP account?

            • randomusername2017 on 02/07/2023 - 19:23

              @SydBoy: It was a feature of commonwealth Bank ATM previously.(circa 1995)
              You could literally deposit any cheque at their ATM and have it instantly available to withdraw as cash.

              The scam was stolen cheque books, legitimate CBA account holders and scammers offering them a % of the cheque if they deposited it in their account and withdrew the cash.

              Anybody still have a cheque book and CBA account want to test it out?

      • Mechz on 02/07/2023 - 12:52
        +8

        'Agent lady' there's a massive red flag.

      • mrvaluepack on 02/07/2023 - 15:41

        fair enough, i would've also asked for screenshot. but i always ask them to do the osko transfer in front of my eyes live and then opening my bank account to check.

      • Hangryuman on 03/07/2023 - 11:59

        'scammer told OSKO direct transfer . money appeared in my account balance. the agent lady who came to pick disappeared quickly. subsequent checks on my account shocked me that it was a cheque transfer. he used the flaw in the ATM cheque deposits. I am not sure if my ignorance played a big part in this scam..'

        interesting - thanks for sharing this lesson - you paid the price so we don't have to - as last night's TV channel 7 Spotlight about scammers, they constantly change to adapt to new rules to find a way - so this Osko 'instant' payment via a cheque is news to me - so thanks I'll keep an eye out for that in future

        • moph on 03/07/2023 - 12:44
          +4

          It was not an Osko payment. The scammer told them it was an Osko payment, and then deposited a dud cheque. The seller did not pay enough attention to the status of the transaction in their bank app.

        • burningrage on 03/07/2023 - 15:01

          AFAIK, OSKO has nothing to do with Cheque deposit. This is straight in people depositing personal cheques that have no value into the OP's account.

          If that is so, the personal cheques would have names/bsb/bankacc on it, should be trackable, shouldn't it?

  • wei13 on 02/07/2023 - 08:23
    +8

    In the scope of life, a phone is fairly cheap for learning a lesson. I know a few who did not learn it until they lost way more.

    • ssfps on 02/07/2023 - 20:25
      +2

      True, painful though it is. I know somebody that lost ~$200k. I still wonder how…

  • SnowDragon on 02/07/2023 - 08:33
    +14

    If they can pay via bank transfer, they can pay via cash.

    As the seller you hold the cards - they want something you have. No cash, no deal. If someone backs out of a payment due to you wanting cash then there's something fishy.

    I doubt you'll get your money back. If you have their phone number just be petty and sign it up to as many services as you can that will call and annoy them. Scientology, novated leasing, "Microsoft" customer support.

  • solidussnake on 02/07/2023 - 08:34
    +4

    Cash on pickup only, take it as a lesson !! ACA won't do anything since Tracey left 😅

    • Serapis on 02/07/2023 - 19:02
      +4

      Also it's not hooning or neighborly disputes, if it's both they'll pull her out of retirement for that hit piece 😂

  • randomusername2017 on 02/07/2023 - 08:39
    +4

    the agent lady who came to pick disappeared quickly

    Sounds like you were pretty lucky actually… they could have accidentally transferred double and asked you to refund the difference in cash.

  • Educatedfool on 02/07/2023 - 08:47
    +2

    oh. the lady came she was under the camera during the exchange in well known shopping plaza and the scammer who did the cheques deposit under the bank ATM camera. and police have scammer active phone number.I am confident that Police will take action on these scammers.

    Is there any way I can obtain the details of the scammer using his mobile phone no.

    • randomusername2017 on 02/07/2023 - 09:00
      +22

      exchange in well known shopping plaza

      Make a new gumtree account, list a similar phone and wait for them to take the bait. This time wait at the ATM ..maybe they'll bring your phone with them😂

      • [Deactivated] on 02/07/2023 - 12:53
        +4

        Someone once sold me a phone, they had bought the real phone from JB Hi-Fi so they had the real receipt and they basically sold the phone like 10 15 times the different people.

        By the time I rang the bank, the lady actually said the police had already been there but I couldn't even get the police to take my report.

        Local station told me to go online to some Queensland task force and they told me I have to file in my state and I just gave up.

        It's a ridiculous system, and it does lean towards benefiting the scammers, even if they are prosecuted. You'll never see your money.

        Very long time ago I lost like $150 on eBay, and the police rang me and said it was like a junkie and one day I might get a check in the mail but very doubtful.

      • Cave Fire on 02/07/2023 - 12:59

        that's the one…. If you hang around and wait for police to be around before. Maybe say something like he stole my phone five days ago and there he is…

    • SBOB on 02/07/2023 - 09:09
      +20

      I am confident that Police will take action on these scammers

      Narrators voice
      Their confidence was misplaced…..

    • solidussnake on 02/07/2023 - 09:09
      +1

      They won't they usually refer you to ACORN, local police won't do anything as it's a civil matter

      • Eeples on 04/07/2023 - 09:50

        I thought stealing stuff would be a criminal matter?

    • Platinumtelecom on 02/07/2023 - 09:10
      +6

      The scammer and the lady is the same person!

      It's not because they told you they are sending someone else to pick up that it is true.
      They are only saying that to make you accept an "Osko" payment instead of cash on pick up.

      • Educatedfool on 02/07/2023 - 09:16

        no they are different.Scammer 1 - I believe he is male. scammer 2 - the lady who came for collecting the items. Yes I get it now - big lesson for me.

    • boomramada on 02/07/2023 - 12:16

      Police wouldn't do anything other than document it, unless its a serial offender or high profile drug bust.

    • kaleidoscope on 02/07/2023 - 19:01

      scammer who did the cheques deposit under the bank ATM camera

      Who on earth takes cheques for something like this…

      • dcep on 02/07/2023 - 22:16
        +2

        OP only expecting osko bank transfer but didn't realise the fraudster was using cheque deposit as loophole , as money already showed up on OP bank account balance which later disappeared as the cheque bounced / cancelled and this was only later revealed after investigation by the bank/police.

  • Lunarboogie on 02/07/2023 - 08:59
    +26

    I'm sorry for your experience OP. We all think we're immune to scams until it happens to us. And it will happen to many of us at some point.

    Chalk it up as a lesson learned and move on. The police will do nothing for you, unfortunately. Thanks for sharing your plight to assist others on here.

    • Sweetsugar on 02/07/2023 - 09:13
      +3

      What a beautiful message 😍

  • Tomcruise on 02/07/2023 - 09:17
    +5

    OP sounds like he has just come from CHINA, and was part of the Minority Report program by the CCP.

  • follow on 02/07/2023 - 09:46
    +5

    As another said, you could bait them with another iPhone listing. Bring a few friends and strongarm them into giving the phone or the money back.

    There are ways to have a phone number that isn't registered to you so it's unlikely to be useful.
    You could try searching the number on Facebook or on adding it to as a payid and see what pops up.

  • AndyC1 on 02/07/2023 - 10:02
    -7

    Newbie who only joined to post yet another I got scammed gumtree post where they did not follow the OZbargain way of using gumtree.. cash cash and only cash.

    • follow on 02/07/2023 - 10:19
      +1

      check again

    • try2bhelpful on 02/07/2023 - 10:23
      +2

      Actually it says he joined in 2014. He just isn’t very active.

      • AndyC1 on 02/07/2023 - 10:24
        -4

        How many posts have there been for Gumtree scams like the one OP fell for? Allot, so even though op has had an account for a long time must not read, so realistically a newbie w.r.t. past posts.

        • try2bhelpful on 02/07/2023 - 10:32
          +7

          You saying he “only joined to post yet another I got scammed by Gumtree post”. I call that pretty good forward planning to me. Being a member since 2014 means he isn’t a newbie. Not saying the guy shouldn’t have been more careful but your comment is factually wrong.

          • AndyC1 on 02/07/2023 - 14:39
            -6

            @try2bhelpful: See below for op posting " I never knew or visited forums to discuss.." as such I was factually correct.

            • try2bhelpful on 02/07/2023 - 19:10
              +4

              @AndyC1: No you aren’t. Look at what you actually said.

        • cookie2 on 02/07/2023 - 14:12
          +1

          A lot

        • ssfps on 02/07/2023 - 20:28
          +1

          Allot

          I think you meant to make the mistake of saying "Alot".

    • Educatedfool on 02/07/2023 - 11:11
      +2

      not a newbie. I am benefited lot from deals posted here from 2014. I never knew or visited forums to discuss..

      • Mechz on 02/07/2023 - 12:55
        +1

        Never new? Definitely a n00b

        • Educatedfool on 02/07/2023 - 13:48
          +1

          Yup I never sells items on gumtree frequently. in my previous dealings I met only good people.

  • shockme79 on 02/07/2023 - 10:13
    +4

    Sorry for the novice question but how can PayID be used in a scam?

    If someone pays you via PayID (to your mobile # or email address) , isn't the money supposed to land in your bank account almost instantly?

    How can this be minipulated by a scammer? I'm only asking because I sell heaps of stuff and always accept PayID payments (I actually encourage it) as I thought it was completely safe?

    What am I missing?

    • follow on 02/07/2023 - 10:19
      +5

      fake cheque deposit at an atm
      takes a few days to clear or bounce
      seller sees the pending amount in the account and assumes it'll clear (with pressure from scammer)
      cheque bounces

      payid is pretty safe apart from that. if it's not instant always wait till the funds are in your "available" balance and not pending.

      • Educatedfool on 02/07/2023 - 11:07

        I complained to bank how they could show in a balance immediatly if it was a cheque.they said thats how it is. I am pissed off after that…

        • Ughhh on 02/07/2023 - 12:32
          +4

          It didn't show as "pending" on your account?

          • Educatedfool on 02/07/2023 - 12:56
            +1

            @Ughhh: No it is showed in balance. not in pending. I took the screenshot showed it to bank. but the bank defended that it what their system is. if the check is not clear for some reason they remove the money from the account.

            • victorheaven on 02/07/2023 - 15:43
              +4

              @Educatedfool: Is it shown as "available balance"? Or just "Balance"? Only funds under available balance is cleared.

              • rave75 on 02/07/2023 - 20:43
                +7

                @victorheaven: I think OP misinterpreted balance and available balance.

            • follow on 02/07/2023 - 20:54
              +3

              @Educatedfool: Post the screenshot?
              If what you're saying is accurate, make a formal complaint and if you're not satisfied with their response, make a complaint to AFCA.
              I had the same issue before but luckily didn't give the item.
              https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/375710

        • punter1 on 03/07/2023 - 07:35

          Did u get charge fail cheque fee?

      • loropy9 on 02/07/2023 - 12:36

        I don't understand PayID too. Would the incoming transaction be marked as pending?

      • [Deactivated] on 02/07/2023 - 12:54

        To be honest, I've never noticed a pending transaction but that could be because it's always been instant

      • illusion99 on 02/07/2023 - 13:19
        +2

        What does cheque deposit have to do with payid? With payid you don’t give them bank details just your phone or email so how can they deposit a fake cheque if they don’t even have your bank details?

        • Educatedfool on 02/07/2023 - 13:32
          -1

          the scammer deposited fake cheque to my bsb and account number. but he spoofed that as a direct osko transfer..

          • BrunoBear on 02/07/2023 - 13:37
            +4

            @Educatedfool: How does one 'spoof' a direct osko transfer? With osko funds should be cleared and available immediately.

            • Educatedfool on 02/07/2023 - 13:44
              -1

              @BrunoBear: I mean he told me he is doing direct transfer but actually did the fake cheque method. it looks like scammer already knows the flaw and loopholes and expert in banking scams

              • moph on 03/07/2023 - 12:50
                +7

                @Educatedfool: That's not spoofing. He just lied to you, and you didn't pay enough attention to the details of the transaction in your banking app.

                I use two different banks. In both apps, the transaction is labelled with Osko if it's received via Osko - you just have to open up the details of the transaction in the app to see. I suspect all banks will have this feature in their app, you should be able to check the transaction method. If they don't you should move to a new one.

            • randomusername2017 on 02/07/2023 - 13:45
              +8

              @BrunoBear: Gotta love technology.. previously card holder had to deposit the cheque, now with cardless deposits all they need is your acc/bsb and enter @osko as the deposit reference to make it look like an osko transaction. Looks legit because your account balance increases and it's not listed as pending.

            • freefall101 on 02/07/2023 - 13:47
              +3

              @BrunoBear: Sounds like an additional step on the old scam of showing a fake osko transaction on their phone. You give them your number, they fumble around on their phone, show you a "payment" screen having gone through with Osko, you check your phone and see a deposit in your account.

              Likely OP didn't look close enough at the transaction to confirm whether it's an osko one or not, it should have details about it being an osko transfer with a receipt number within the banking app. But personally I never check that when doing a transaction, I generally just look for the money coming in.

          • illusion99 on 02/07/2023 - 13:44
            +13

            @Educatedfool: That’s not Payid then. Osko is not the same as payid which is why everyone is confused when you keep saying payid

          • coffeeinmyveins on 02/07/2023 - 18:20
            +1

            @Educatedfool: Huh? What?

            This just gets weirder.

            You cannot deposit "fake cheques"

            he spoofed that as a direct osko

            I'm guessing this means they showed you something on their phone saying the transaction went through and you believed it?

            Honestly, sounds like you're gullible and fell for a cheap trick and expect your bank, the police, and ACA to right it for you. Good luck with that.

            • shockme79 on 02/07/2023 - 20:09
              +1

              @coffeeinmyveins: In all honesty… Who pays with cheques anymore?…. And secondly, who would accept a cheque from some random as a form of payment?

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