Home Alarm System - Brands and Suggestions

SaberX on 05/07/2023 - 17:00

Hi all. Looking at standard alarm system for my house and a cctv setup. Cctv setup is likely going to be dahua tioc 2.0 with maybe normal cameras (probably upgrade to 8mp tioc assuming it gives better detail ).

For alarm panel systems i am a bit stumped as there's a few brands and different security places do some, and not others. I've also gotten mixed advice on brands. In general I presume I should avoid wireless (Ajax, hikvision) options provided to me as presumably batteries and remembering to charge will be a pain and wired would be more secure?

Otherwise the main brands that seem to come up locally in Perth are:

Hills
Paradox
Bosch
Seen the rare Honeywell but haven't heard of them before.

Any security installers or anyone who had reasonable experience with one or more brands above or not named who can comment on 1) reliability 2) functionality e.g. good connectivity to smart phone and remote access etc these days, expandability and compatibility with other brands.

Mixed and contrary advice I've gotten: hills is a well known name but largely old tech that hasn't updated in yonks (not sure if this means outdated tech access and functionality or the old 'if it isn't broke don't fix it' strength), slow app and clunky/not responsive with less customisation and info via your phone?

Paradox : some say more tech savvy app but requires annual subscription (one installer said $60 a yr but another told me it's $1/2 a month albeit it seems this uses alarm.com so am confused if there's different apps or ways of hooking paradox up). Bosch - some say great but some installers are saying it's just hired out its name for use and to avoid?

All in all I'm abit confused and just wanted raw and unbiased advice on brands
We're single story and reasonably techy hence we wanted traditional alarm - sirens, indoor motion sensors, odd shock reed for sliding doors or back windows not covered by cctv, remote fobs for garage access arm/disarm, and most importantly the internet access to monitor and arm/disarm remotely wherever we are. Combined with a cctv system although I presume the crossover doesn't matter as you don't really link the cctv to setting off your alarm sirens?. Any advice? Anything we should keep in mind in choosing an installer or system. Should we just go the cheapest in one brand when comparing different installers as I've found variations.

On a side note wondering if any video doorbells are worth recommending or can be hard wired. All intercoms I've been quoted anywhere from 800-1500 which seems bloody expensive.

All advice and tips appreciated. Any Perthies with good quality reasonable priced installers please send through?

Home & Garden

Comments

  • LVlahov on 05/07/2023 - 17:25

    DSC is another brand for alarms if you are looking for wired kit. Rock solid and reliable. But I've been looking at Ajax wireless alarms and have been told by a person I trust in the industry they are the bees knees and worth the extra. You do have to replace the batteries every few years but on the same token don't have issues with rats chewing on wires and such. I am told by the agent I know they have had to replace a negligible amount of Ajax equipment under warranty compared to the normal stuff they sell, which is stuff they had already prioritised because of its good warranty/performance profile (DSC).

    • SaberX on 05/07/2023 - 18:27

      Thanks. THe CCTV guys locally who have a lot of facebook reviews for installing the Dahua Tioc's only offer the Ajax wireless. I was abit hesitant as i heard that a) wireless you could get jamming issues being wireless and b) i just figured wired is always going to be connected and working. Supposedly the AJAX per this installer is very customisable and all app based so sounds very new gen approachable. Which is what i like…

      But the wireless part still worries me. We own the home, only a few years old so drilling/wiring doesn't seem an issue, and i doubt we'd have rats? Supposedly they're coming out with a wired version. Do you think the negligible replacements is less to do with being wireless and more the brand quality itself?

      I haven't seen any DSC being offered by suppliers locally (Perth) which is interesting. Otherwise i'd be keen to get a quote.

      • LVlahov on 06/07/2023 - 00:37

        "you could get jamming issues being wireless" - I have to make clear I am not in the industry so only repeating what I have heard (don't shoot the messenger!), but I heard the reason a lot of wireless stuff on the market for years overseas that never came here until recently (inclusive of Ajax's products) was for that very reason. We had other services authorised to use those frequencies in Australia and so they wouldn't work properly. People would (grey) import things from overseas, designed to operate on frequencies that are open in the EU/China, but congested here, and that gave them a bad reputation. Fed government bought back licenses or they expired or whatever for those frequencies though (not sure if it is to do with our broadcasters, or telcos or who, but something like that), so now those frequencies are free, so we've seen companies like Ajax come over.

        But yeah, I think it is mostly to do with the product quality being high than it being wireless but perhaps some benefit with avoiding issues with power surges during lightening storms or power surges or something which could interfere with electronics as well (I hear Perth power is kind of "dirty" like that), which might be a factor. I've always thought power surges knocking gear out is a bit of a myth but have heard it from my security guys before and have heard plenty say the same with TV and computer failures so it kind of makes sense.

        Not trying to talk you round that way though, more that if you go for a good quality brand either way I think you'll be pretty fine. Bosch I think is ok, DSC I have been told is good, Hills I'm pretty sure I've been told to stay away from.. something about them being an organisation that has been through a lot of different hands over the years and kind of not gotten it all together. Can't recall what I was told about Paradox. The business in Perth I know does DSC, Dahua and Ajax so will DM you their details.

        • SaberX on 06/07/2023 - 01:32

          Agree with your first and second paragraph points, makes sense!

          As for the brands, did you hear about BOsch from any installers? THe only time I've heard from one supplier was that they were renting out the "Bosch" name, and it was really badged by xxx company which I can't recall the name, so wasn't as good as the "Bosch" name suggests.

          Hills - seems to be a household name. But I'm worried that having been around 10-20 years they're still using the same old tech and approach with an app thrown on top, hence I was worried it wasn't the most tech capable forward software…. Hadn't heard much of the physical quality of the sensors and reliability being bad though?

          DSC is one I don't see often, so it's interesting you mentioned it's quality is decent. i've seen your PM so I'll keep it on the list to consider

          • LVlahov on 06/07/2023 - 02:11

            @SaberX: No worries. Look I think I heard the same about Bosch as you. The reason I think they might be ok is when I brought it up I kind of got that same spiel but also a bit of a grunt, whereas with other brands I got a "no, they are crap", so I kind of interpreted that as Bosch are ok (although the person I was talking to didn't sell them). For DSC I think they are a little bit like what was mentioned about Honeywell, actually huge in the industry globally, but for whatever reason, perhaps some parochialism and us being a smaller market, they never pushed as hard for market share here, or were just left as being a little less common since Hills occupied so much of the market.

            I mean another factor here can be that now the industry extends all the way down to absolute no name Chinese brands, any of these brands are probably not that bad. Like at their level they need to be making systems that are reasonably reliable for jewellers and gun shops and banks and the like.

            • SaberX on 06/07/2023 - 02:27
              +1

              @LVlahov: That could be true… given how much i've seen the wired usually have Hills recommended, there is the odd paradox and bosch thrown in, and wireless: risco and ajax etc… but otherwise that coudl account for why DSC or Honeywell don't make the cut (simply as all the other options are much more mainstream and recognisable here).

              I'll likely need to do a bit more digging to find someone who has and uses the Bosch already for some feedback. And in the meantime ill try and enquire on DSC.

              It's just one of those things you can't google as much becuase unlike say a TV or mobile phone there's not many people who have tried a variety. Only really installers would be competent to compare multiple brands (provided they even spread beyond one or two when installing)

  • AustriaBargain on 05/07/2023 - 17:56

    I noticed my Wyze cam has an option to pay for monitoring of cameras, I guess someone at Wyze will call the police? But if the power goes out or internet goes down then they stop working so it's hardly secure.

    • dwillia on 05/07/2023 - 18:17

      UPS

    • SaberX on 05/07/2023 - 18:29
      -1

      Yeah, i'm not too fussed about monitoring. For me first line is deterrence (either they wont stick around with the noise, or if we're sleeping we get woken up ). As dwillia mentioned an UPS for your CCTV system has been quoted/recommended to me. Cameras would then keep recording. But you'd need a seperate UPS for your Router though to keep any notifications going.

      I guess the chances of an extensive power outage are low. Also have a locked meter box, not that it can't be broken or keyed into but makes most opportunistic switch flippers redundant (i hope).

      • AustriaBargain on 05/07/2023 - 18:32

        If your router has 4G/5G backup then you may as well get a battery for it too. The terrorists in Die Hard 2 could cat the hard communication and power lines to the airport, but they wouldn't have been able to knock down all the cell towers in the area.

        • SaberX on 05/07/2023 - 18:34

          Well our NBN NTD has a backup battery box. albeit i haven't replaced it. So a UPS for the router would be all that's needed to continue nbn access presumably (assuming your CCTV also had a UPS added in the quote). Seems the alarms all come with battery backups as standard quotes already.

          • AustriaBargain on 05/07/2023 - 18:35

            @SaberX: Oh and O'd make sure your cameras do detection in camera or that the cloud service will review old footage during internet disconnect, because they will keep recording without internet, but some cameras that rely on cloud for detection notification won't review recordings during the downtime to generate those notifications. If the detection is done in camera then when it goes back online it'll send the notifications to your phone. Definitely worth checking what happens when the cameras lose internet connection anyway in case there isn't a solution to notify you someone climbed through your window during it.

            • SaberX on 05/07/2023 - 18:55

              @AustriaBargain: THanks. the hardest part is knowing which cameras check the detection in camera (and if so if they notify you once internet is back up). Probably not something readily listed on specifications? That said im likely going with the dahua tioc 2.0's so i'd hope with active deterrents its a more newer technology and indeed supports this.

  • mskeggs on 05/07/2023 - 18:03

    Honeywell is probably the biggest brand globally, but they don't have much of a consumer presence. If you were a bank or defense facility they would have an offering.

    I think we are in the middle of a sea change in this stuff, where there are still old style, dumb, wired systems being sold.

    And thanks to software and chips costing pennies, for similar money you can get smart systems that can analyse an area for a specific number plate, "learn" which movements in an area are needing an alert, message you with a video or sms, etc.

    In 10 years I expect you will stick up a wireless sensor in each room that connects and is powered wirelessly and the base station will be a little raspberry pi sized box you stick a sim card in.

    You can almost do this now, but the power isn't there, and the software doesn't interoperate well.

    I'd probably do a bit more research to see what you can get from cheap gear from China that you can install yourself before I spent thousands with an old school installer.
    If everything you need is from a single brand, and bonus if it supports one of the smart home standards, you might be able to meet your needs much cheaper.

    • SaberX on 05/07/2023 - 18:33
      -1

      I'm actually OK with a wired system in terms of power reliability. But I'd definitely want to see smarter technology on how the apps work. More customisation and information than just arm/disarm, or clunky offerings. I haven't seen the apps of each brand which is why I was hoping there'd be someone in the industry in the know who could steer us in the right direction.

      I agree and if a phone can have an antenna i dont' see why alarm boxes or the like can't have built in wifi chips in there. You have to pay to add a internet module on, and i've been quoted $300 for a commnav for the hills reliance r8 to be added on. Seems awfully expensive when technology has wifi built in for much less for electronics you buy.

      My biggest worry about DIY'ing is im not as confident in installing and wiring through the roof space. Never been up there and never had a chance to follow someone up there. If i was taught or someone could walk me through it i'd love to learn and do it as a weekend project

  • Tee Rex Arms on 05/07/2023 - 18:05

    Security screens. Set and forget and good ROI as it increases house value in the RE market.

    • SaberX on 05/07/2023 - 18:30
      -1

      we already have a security screen on our front and back door. But it doesn't protect all your windows and doors, not without being costly and ugly to install on everything to be honest. Won't help if they get in through the roof either.

      • Tee Rex Arms on 05/07/2023 - 20:09

        Crimsafe and plantation shutters all around doesn’t look ugly on my place…

        • SaberX on 06/07/2023 - 01:46

          Unfortunately plantation shutters don't provide any notifications of intrusions so it isn't really relevant with what we're after e.g. the alarm system.

    • JIMB0 on 05/07/2023 - 22:32

      20 year old dilapidated car parked on the driveway. They won't think you've got anything worth breaking in for.

  • Benoffie on 05/07/2023 - 19:21

    I never paid a subscription for my Paradox system. Is this for an app?

    • SaberX on 06/07/2023 - 01:47

      I'm somewhat confused by different installers quotes but when I've had a paradox alarm system quoted, i've been told it's one or two dollars a month and another installer thoguht it was say $60 a year or something. I know the former uses alarms.com or something, so I'm not sure if the pricing difference depends on what app or monitoring app service they use?

      I would have thought that the alarm brand itself would just offer a free app that they keep serviced and updated given you purchase their products, which is kind of why i'm against the whole notion of paying recurring fees for a fixed wired alarm system (that you aren't using cloud storage or remote monitoring services) for.

      • Benoffie on 06/07/2023 - 09:56

        The question is, do you need an app? I mean really, what would you use it for?

        Cctv set ups generally come with free apps and internet access so you can still check on your place remotely that way.

  • boomramada on 05/07/2023 - 19:45

    1) reliability 2) functionality e.g. good connectivity to smartphone and remote access etc these days

    Ring/Google Nest, but it comes with a subscription. Pretty much, you set and forget.

  • jv on 05/07/2023 - 22:44
    -1

    1) reliability 2) functionality e.g. good connectivity to smartphone and remote access etc these days

    Reolink. No subscription required. Pretty much, you set and forget.

    • SaberX on 06/07/2023 - 02:30

      it's wireless though aren't they from memory? the other issue if wired, not many security installers carry these china brands (apart from say hik vision)

      • jv on 06/07/2023 - 09:15

        it's wireless though aren't they from memory?

        I have the PoE ones.

  • aggregate on 06/07/2023 - 08:51

    I have a Paradox alarm system and Eufy cameras at home. To me they are complements. The alarm is very reliable and works as a deterrent. The camera is for monitoring and storing footage.

    You can get very reliable PoE security cameras, but they can be quite expensive. If you go through the trouble wiring everything, you might as well also get the cable to run the wiring for an alarm system as well.

    On the Paradox system, the subscription is for the mobile app, which can be used to remotely arm and disarm the system. The alarm can still work without the subscription if you don’t need the app

    • jv on 06/07/2023 - 09:16

      but they can be quite expensive.

      they can also be quite affordable.

    • SaberX on 12/07/2023 - 02:08

      Is the paradox app official paradox? i was confused as some installers quote the alarms.com so im not sure if different installers give you different apps. Just wondering the cost if so for your subscription?

      Understand the alarm still manually works without the app subscription. Just a bit sucky you cant pay an once off just to be able to remotely turn an 'on/off' disarm button.

  • everydollacounts on 06/07/2023 - 12:28

    I got this Reolink deal for $675, got jim's security to install it for me for $600. Great basic system, works with Onvif cameras too.

    • SaberX on 12/07/2023 - 02:05

      Thanks. I didn't know Jim's will DIY it for you.. interesting. JIm's also quote and install too from memory, might have to check with t hem. I wrote them off as another expensive outfit as RAC quoted an arm and a leg, figured Jim's would be a similar issue.

      Does Reolink app cost a subscription?

      • everydollacounts on 12/07/2023 - 08:47

        No subscription for the App, easy to navigate, cameras were pretty much plug and play. I recommend setting them up before its wired throughout the house too. Also, some of the wires included weren't long enough because of their location but jim supplied the rest.

  • awdavgds on 06/07/2023 - 19:57

    Bosch Solution 6000. Easy to program, easy to use, easy app with MyAlarm. Yes it is paid but you can do a once off pay version or a yearly version. As an installer I can sell and install these til the cows come home. They are just good. Built by an Australian company called Digiflex. As for CCTV, many options out there. NDAA approved systems are also available at a reasonable cost. LA Vision cameras by Leeway are one such example.

    • SaberX on 12/07/2023 - 02:03

      I heard they said pay tthe small difference and ensure it's a Bosch 6000 and not the cheaper residential 2000,3000 panels. Supposedly a totally different quality despite the name. How do you find Digiflex - are they worth the "Bosch" name. I'm trying to find someone who will quote the Boschs, alot of HIlls reliance sellers, all the 'alternatives' push the more leftfield like Risco…

      Would you stick with Bosch PIRs and reeds/shock sensors if going the 6000? Also as an installer is it a cop out where some installers wont do wired reeds/sensors on single story colorbond roofs? I dont get why its any harder than a tiled, if the roof is sufficiently pitched? Just lazy, or is access and window lintels that hard a job that many won't do it?

      CCTV wise, anything against the Dahua TIOC cameras? Worried about false alarms and alarms going off day and night pissing everyone off, but seems active deterrents can be switched off, and that aside the camera itself is better/backs a bigger punch than other CCTVs e.g. full colour at night, IR light , overall quality and AI the best in the market currently - or so they say?

      Edit: with the myalarm subscription, I looked into the packages. If you buy the 'once off' am i understanding it right that you get only up to 100 mobile app push notifications a month ? No sms, phone calls and the other fancy reporting. And the other packages then increase your mobile app push notifications quantity, introduce sms, phone calls etc.

      In terms of full functionality of arm/disarm, monitoring or event logs and other details is the 'once off' identical to all other reporting subscriptions? If so I can live without phone calls, or smses, would be "nice", but as long as phone notifications keep coming that works for me. Albeit you wont get more than 100 - which i assume is fine as you'd only get a notification if the alarm was triggered? Which you'd hope doesnt happen even during a month.

  • darkly on 08/07/2023 - 12:34

    I personally use the Inception panel by Inner Range. Its Australian made (in Melbourne) and very cutting edge, all set up by a web interface and comes with a free mobile app.

    • SaberX on 12/07/2023 - 01:59

      thanks, haven't heard of this brand, dont think any installers would do it locally in perth.

      • darkly on 12/07/2023 - 08:48

        I think you might be surprised, they have two offices in Perth.

        • SaberX on 13/07/2023 - 02:05

          It's more that the installers ive contacted for quotes none have it on their website. Might need to hunt out an active installer if so.

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