Want to Move Router Away from Garage

wau2 on 09/08/2023 - 23:23
Last edited 10/08/2023 - 18:35 by 1 other user

Hi All
Just got a new router ASUS Rt-AX86u pro - and want to move it away from the garage
Current setup - NBN NTD in garage —-> router in garage —> network switch in garage —> 5 ethernet ports around the house. All ports terminate in the garage network switch.

I'm abit weary about keeping the router in garage as
1) wifi signal at the back of house is not great (unless i buy another Another asus to make AIMESH)
2) heat and dust in garage
3) if I could move the router to the middle of the house, i can do away with having mesh to improve WIFI (less $$)

Is there a way to setup as NBN NTD in garage —> network switch in garage —> router in say 1 port —> maintain ethernet connection to all the other rooms?

Thanks in advance

Computing Broadband nbn Wireless Router

Comments

  • FoxJump on 09/08/2023 - 23:25

    "Patch panel" ? or network switch?
    if it's just a patch panel you can put the NTD into one of them, and then the router wherever it comes out off on your home.
    if it's a network switch, then you cannot do this

    • wau2 on 09/08/2023 - 23:29

      thanks, i edited original

  • Wiadro on 09/08/2023 - 23:40
    +2

    my modem has been in my garage for 2 years, no issues

  • rumblytangara on 09/08/2023 - 23:40
    +4

    Just got a new router ASUS Rt-AX86u pro - and want to move it away from the garage
    Current setup - NBN NTD in garage —-> router in garage —> network switch in garage —> 5 ethernet ports around the house. All ports terminate in the garage network switch.

    I'm abit weary about keeping the router in garage as
    1) wifi signal at the back of house is not great (unless i buy another Another asus to make AIMESH)

    2) heat and dust in garage

    Get a cheap second wifi router, run it as an access point only, then attach it to one of your 5 ethernet ports in the house, as central as possible, and use that for your wifi.

    I would not worry about dust and heat overmuch.

    Mesh is totally overrated, it's a stopgap for when you don't have ethernet cabling. Sounds like you have ethernet cabling, so ditch the mesh idea.

    • wau2 on 10/08/2023 - 00:01
      +1

      Good idea, is it better to use the RT-AX86U Pro centrally since its more 'powerful' Wifi range, and utilise the cheap router in the garage to connect it to the NTD?

      • turbochris on 10/08/2023 - 09:27

        Sure as long as you are happy with the other features of the garage router - e.g. firewall, port forwarding etc. (If you dont know what that means, then the TLDR is yes).

      • rumblytangara on 10/08/2023 - 14:10

        I'd generally regard the Asus to be better for router duties, on the premise that Asus is good for long term firmware updates to patch bugs. So you want that 'safe' device working as your internet facing firewall/router.

        I would not say that the Asus is automatically more 'powerful' in wifi terms. There are too many variables that go into 'range' that simply brand and model.

        Looking at your floorplan, as long as you get a wifi point into the centalised kitchen area, you should be good unless the wifi point is total garbage.

    • ESEMCE on 10/08/2023 - 09:59
      +3

      Disagree with the second part, Mesh is great, especially with Ethernet backhaul.

      The reason why,
      1) with 2 dumb Access Points, devices will hold on to the Access Point that they are already connected to until the signal becomes too weak, only then will they reconnect to the stronger signal.
      If you have good signal, you get fast WiFi through the ethernet backhaul, but if you move from one end of the house to the other, but maintaining a weak connection to the original Access Point, your speeds will plummet.

      versus
      2) with Mesh (and Ethernet backhaul) your devices will hand over to the stronger Access Point far sooner, as a result, you devices maintain a high speed connection no matter how much you move about.

      Noting that not all Mesh systems support Ethernet backhaul, but many do.

      • rumblytangara on 10/08/2023 - 14:12
        +1

        If OP gets a single centrally-located AP working, he's not going to have to worry about multiple APs, so roaming becomes a non-issue. It's not a big floorplan for a single AP to cover.

        He could even just turn off the wifi on the AP that stays in the garage.

      • xylarr on 11/08/2023 - 14:01

        Is a mesh with ethernet backhaul even a mesh? I thought the very definition of a mesh wireless network is the various access points talk to each other to eventually send your packets back to the central AP.

        If you just have a bunch of access points all wired into a router, then you just have a multi-point wireless network.

        • rumblytangara on 11/08/2023 - 19:07
          +1

          "Mesh" is a bit of a misused term. In proper old-school networking terms, it means a topology whereby nodes can communicate with multiple other nodes and traffic can route from Point A to Point Z via multiple dynamic paths. This gives you redundancy if paths/points fail, lets you load balance traffic, etc.

          Some home network people think that "mesh" means "nodes must communicate over wifi" which is "wireless mesh".

          And most home systems with only 2-3 nodes don't even run multiple paths between nodes… it's technically a 'mesh' but barely. It'll function more like a point to point star topology.

          But. If you've got a load of mesh nodes that are in wifi range of each other, and they're all wired up to the same switch via ethernet, yeah, that's definitely a mesh network in old-school terms. Any cable fails, any node fails, and nodes can automatically recover and redefine paths. Just like how the Internet is a mesh.

          I thought the very definition of a mesh wireless network is the various access points talk to each other to eventually send your packets back to the central AP.

          You're describing a star topology here, definitely not a mesh.

          Also, I'm almost falling asleep at my keyboard, sorry if this didn't make much sense ;)

  • AdosHouse on 09/08/2023 - 23:46
    -4

    Just put a cheap dumb switch in the garage, plug all the network ports into that, plug the NBN NTD into same switch. Put the router anywhere in the house where one of those network ports goes to. Will work okay.

    • wau2 on 10/08/2023 - 00:00

      Thanks, will my say laptop work if connected to the network port? since its not connected directly to the router? I thought all other devices need to connect to the router… not directly to NTD. I might be wrong

      • AdosHouse on 10/08/2023 - 00:16
        -3

        A dumb switch simply connects every device to every other device. Basically your internet will go, NTD-switch-router-switch-laptop.

        • wau2 on 10/08/2023 - 00:18
          +1

          Ok thanks. What about other network devices in other rooms not close to the router that I want to use Ethernet? Ie ps5, another computer

          • AdosHouse on 10/08/2023 - 00:21
            -2

            @wau2: As long as they are connected to a ethernet port that goes back to that garage switch, everything will be connected.

    • lorikeet on 10/08/2023 - 00:38
      +1

      I don't think it will work if you put both WAN and LAN on the same switch without separating them using VLAN.

      • AdosHouse on 10/08/2023 - 00:40

        Hmmm, that's actually a good point. Didn't think of that, been a long day.

    • ESEMCE on 10/08/2023 - 10:00
      +1

      NO NO No!
      OP NEEDS a router between the NTD and the switch.

      • AdosHouse on 10/08/2023 - 15:27

        Yes lorikeet above pointed that out. I was very tired and that was a stupid mistake on my part, I knew that.

    • rumblytangara on 10/08/2023 - 14:15

      AdosHouse
      Just put a cheap dumb switch in the garage, plug all the network ports into that, plug the NBN NTD into same switch. Put the router anywhere in the house where one of those network ports goes to. Will work okay.

      That isn't going to work. It goes NTD -> Router/FW -> Switch -> multiple clients.

      Router has to be in front of the clients.

      Otherwise it's a total mess and the router does sweet FA. Some things might work, some things won't work, and the router provides zero security or control.

      • AdosHouse on 10/08/2023 - 15:34

        Yes lorikeet above pointed that out. I was very tired and that was a stupid mistake on my part, I read that this morning and can't work out what drugs I was on. I know that setup wouldn't work, barring OP having two independent ethernet cables going to wherever they put the router.

        OR, if you want to go ol' school dodgy, using only 100Mbps connection and only using 2 pair to go from garage to router, then 2 pairs going back to garage, ethernet splitter cable would facilitate this. Just means house would be limited to 100Mbps speeds.

  • HardQuiz on 09/08/2023 - 23:47

    How’s the wifi if you left it in the garage?

    Are you happy with the overall performance?

  • randomusername2017 on 09/08/2023 - 23:57
    +4

    I'm abit weary

    Sleep on it.. things will look brighter in the morning.

  • lorikeet on 10/08/2023 - 00:53
    +4

    One way you can do it is to connect the NTD directly to one of the ethernet port without going through the switch and have the WAN port of the router on the other side. Then connect one LAN port of the router to another ethernet wall port to go back to the garage switch:

    NTD <—> port 1 in garage <—> port 1 in room <—> WAN router LAN <—> port 2 in room <—> port 2 in garage <—> switch <—> port 3,4,5 in garage <—> port 3,4,5 in rooms.

    But you need two ethernet ports in rooms close to each other, or having a cable going between rooms.

    One other way to leave the router in garage and just to add a wifi access point. You don't need mesh or using a same brand, you can just set it up to use the same wifi name and password. Some routers can be configured as access point so you could get an old router for cheap.

    • sumyungguy on 10/08/2023 - 06:46

      I'd do your suggestion @lorikeet, use ethernet only in the room with the gateway/router and wifi everywhere else. The only device in my house that needs ethernet is my Philips Hue bridge.

    • wau2 on 10/08/2023 - 11:28

      Thanks unfortunately I need / prefer Ethernet points in other rooms. One room has ps5, and two rooms have study/laptop/pc. Technically can just do wifi but might defeat the purpose of having Ethernet

      • sumyungguy on 10/08/2023 - 11:40

        I worked on design for a $40M building fitout back in 2008. We provisioned ethernet cable everywhere because the IT guys said we'd never be allowed to use wifi due to security concerns. Within five years the whole building got retrofitted with wifi access points and all desktop/laptop clients switched to wireless. So interested to know, why hang on to ethernet if you can go Wi-Fi 6 and ditch all the ugly cabling?

        • lorikeet on 10/08/2023 - 14:27

          I have a bunch of devices using ethernet and the cables are barely visible. And you still need to have cables for power/hdmi anyway.

          • sumyungguy on 10/08/2023 - 14:33

            @lorikeet: I agree, we all need some cabled connections. But I have more than 40 wireless clients so grateful for the scalability and utility of wifi.

      • lorikeet on 10/08/2023 - 14:21

        Maybe I was not clear but with both my proposed solutions you still have ethernet available.

  • pjetson on 10/08/2023 - 08:16
    +1

    Why not keep only the NBN NDT in the garage, and use one of your existing ethernet cables to connect it to the WAN port on your wifi router. Only you know if your existing ethernet cables go to a place in the house where you get good wifi coverage. It sounds like you don't need a network switch, because you said that you only had one device that needed an ethernet connection, and your wifi router already has four LAN ports where you could connect it.

  • Odin on 10/08/2023 - 08:43

    Just run ethernet cable

  • GordonD on 10/08/2023 - 09:20
    +3

    It is long past time for whoever designs structured cable to get it right and not do this. They know routers include wifi, and you don't want the wifi out in the garage resulting in the reception in the house being poor.

    There is one way to get around this, but it only works for internet speeds below 100 Mb/s.

    It is to position the router/wifi at the best location in the house, and to split the ethernet cable from the garage to it using a RJ45 splitter. This turns a 4 pair gigabit RJ45 into a pair of 2 pair RJ45 cables that operate independently of each other. A 2 pair cable is limited to 100 Mb/s.

    I'll try to describe how it'd be wired. You wire from the NTU to an RJ45 splitter plugged into the house wiring port going to the router in the house. Ditto at the router end. So two of the pairs in the cable would carry the NTU's signal to the router. And at the router end both the router's WAN port and one of the LAN ports. So the other 2 pairs in the same cable would carry the router's signal back to the garage where the other side of the RJ45 splitter would be connected to a gigabit ethernet switch. The other ports on that switch would be connected to the other devices around the house.

    So you'd be using one RJ45 cable from the garage to the router to carry the signal from the NTU to the router in one direction AND the signal from the router to the switch in the other direction. But those connections are limited to 100 Mb/s.

    This is not an ideal solution, but it can be used until a better solution is available. And you don't need to pay a cabler to do it. Its just a matter of plugging RJ45 splitter into both ends of the house wiring connection going from the garage to wherever you want to put the router. So you can move the router if your initial guess at the best location turns out not to be ideal.

    • GordonD on 10/08/2023 - 09:40

      RJ45 splitters are $10 a pair on ebay, or USD14 on Amazon. Plus you'll need some short ethernet cables.

    • ESEMCE on 10/08/2023 - 10:12

      Neat idea if 100mbps is suitable.

  • phoxymoron on 10/08/2023 - 09:22
    +1

    Assuming you are happy with one of the existing data points as the location for the WiFi router then use the existing cable to pull two new cables to that location - one will then go from NTD to router WAN port and one from router LAN port back to your switch. If you are averse to new cables and want to try it (understanding it will limit throughput) you could use a pair of these to have a single cable pull 'double duty' - https://www.jaycar.com.au/rj45-cat-5-utp-splitter-150mm/p/YT…

  • Mugsy on 10/08/2023 - 09:27
    +1

    OP, I'm assuming you have your multi-dataport panel in the garage close to your NBN NTD like most residences.

    Is there another two dataports in the house that are near each other?

    If yes, you can run your network this way…

    NBN NTD -> multidatapoint -> router located at the two adjacent dataports

    and then have another cable from one of the router's ethernet ports back into the adjacent dataport, and then at the multi-dataports into a switch in the garage. You can then connect the other datapoints in the house back to the switch.

    Don't forget you can run a longer ethernet cable from your router to any nearby rooms without a dataport.

    I'm in the process of building a house and I made it a requirement for my multi-dataports to be located in a central point good for wifi. Mine is in the upstairs family room which is as central as it gets. Might still require a wifi repeater at the back of the house as it's a long design but at least the wifi router covers most of the house and I won't need a switch (the 4 ethernet ports on the router is the right number for me. The idea of having the wifi router or even an additional switch running in the garage boggles me.

    • ESEMCE on 10/08/2023 - 10:08

      This could work, but so much easier and neater to keep the router in the shed and just plug in another router (or multiple) in the house set up as an Access Point.

      • Mugsy on 10/08/2023 - 10:15

        Not for me.

        Tech troubleshooting is painful enough as it is… having to run down to the garage every time I need to reset the router is going to get annoying quickly.

        Not to mention all the extra electronic devices using electricity and having to be purchased.

        • ESEMCE on 10/08/2023 - 11:05

          Firstly, I'm against putting stuff like this into the shed at all. Too much heat/dust for my liking.

          But if you're in this circumstance;
          1) how often do you need to reset the router? (if it's more than 2 times per year, and that's being generous, might be time for something more reliable)
          2) how often do you need to do it physically rather than through the web interface which you can do on your phone whilst standing on the roof if necessary
          (yeah, I've actually done this while adjusting 4G roof mounted antenna orientations and manipulating the preferred bands of the 4G modem/router)

          Finally, having the switch (assuming it is a switch, not a patch panel… OP says this has been corrected, but I'm not confident they actually know the difference) in the shed is the most puzzling part of this to me, if there was a waste of power going on, this is probably it. It'd leave 1 "dead" port, but I could probably live with it.
          In this example, if power consumption was an issue, I'd probably just leave the switch off in the shed and wire 4 of the home outlets into the 4 LAN ports of the router, thereby giving you "free" power to add a second router for WiFi in the home.

  • GordonD on 10/08/2023 - 11:47

    These days a "router" is an ethernet switch with a number of external LAN ports, plus two hidden internal connections. One for input from a WAN port through a router. And the other for wifi. Just because they're there in the one box you don't have to use them.

    So the simplest solution is to just use two routers. One in the garage with the wifi configured off. And one connected to a wall socket somewhere in the house that doesn't uses its router functionality.

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