Hit by Car Entering from Side Street Advice

Ldarkness on 12/08/2023 - 19:46
Last edited 13/08/2023 - 07:37

Hi. I've been a long time forum lurker, reading accident stories, but never thought I'd be posting one of my own.

My wife had a side-swipe type accident when changing lanes and I was wondering if anyone can shed some light on who's at fault.

Essentially:

  1. She was in the right lane in a two lane street with a car in front.
  2. Car in front stops due to traffic. Location has an side road on the left with cars wanting to enter.
  3. She also stops.
  4. Left lane was clear, so she changed lanes at the same time as another car coming from the side street resulting in a collision

Can anyone say who was at fault in this situation? Normally I'd assume the car entering the road would be at fault, but after looking at the footage, I'm not so sure.

We have comprehensive insurance. Unfortunately, they did not exchange contact details, so I'm not even sure if insurance would help.

Dashcam Footage and MS Paint

She is car A, and car B is the other driver.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Automotive

Comments

      • nwa on 13/08/2023 - 20:33

        That's good, most likely she will need to lodge a police report with plate and description of the driver and after some investigation they should give you their details to forward to your insurer.

  • Hangryuman on 13/08/2023 - 16:54
    -3

    hello darkness my old friend … (there's a clue to my age)

    dashcam driver was clearly not paying full attention to her surroundings - given that changing lanes you should be checking all directions, especially with a Porsche with its nose sticking out from the side road

    maybe dashcam was checking her rearview mirror as she changed lanes

    either way it's poor driving - but as for liability I dunno - I'd say fault was 52% Porsche, 48% OP

    • Muzeeb on 13/08/2023 - 18:28
      +2

      I know people who were born in the 2000's and love Pink Floyd so no, it's not a clue to your age.

    • Protractor on 14/08/2023 - 10:10

      I think a big slab of dashcam owners treat them like (a) they are a force field or (b) some sort of magic machine that creates a cloud of extra legal possibilities (when thinks go kaboom) that does not apply to lowly non-dash cam owning serfs.

  • EdenKai on 13/08/2023 - 17:46
    +2

    I would say technically the porsche, they're meant to give way to any incoming traffic. Having said that, it wouldve benefitted everyone if the driver indicated first, then did the checks and then merged. Dont get me wrong i do it from time to time too, where ive checked first, then indicated, then merged, but in this instance, it might have avoided the incident altogether. Just gives the porsche driver more time to react. Again, porsche drivers fault, but when you drive, you almost just have to assume everyones an idiot.

  • Davo1111 on 13/08/2023 - 18:34
    +1

    So how exactly did you not get the details of the other driver?

    • darkness on 13/08/2023 - 19:41

      As mentioned above, I think she was in shock and didn’t think about it as it was her first time, and the Porsche driver didn’t offer to exchange details.

      • Davo1111 on 13/08/2023 - 19:43

        Ok. Afaik OP has 24 h to report the incident to police

  • Bob Svargis on 13/08/2023 - 19:35
    +3

    Dreadful driving from both parties unfortunately. OP's wife needs to seriously look at what she did there, even though she's probably not technically at fault. Porsche driver should have waited and was being impatient, but OP's wife was being unpredictable. Sloppy driving from both parties.

  • kaleidoscope on 13/08/2023 - 20:15
    +1

    Porsche is legally wrong. But both drivers could end up being at fault because it might go under failing to act to prevent a collision for you.

  • Ozie on 13/08/2023 - 21:16

    Soz out of topic. What dashcam were you using and is it hard-wired?

    • John Kimble on 13/08/2023 - 21:28

      It says the model in the bottom left of the footage

  • StingyLizzy on 13/08/2023 - 21:54
    +3

    Poor defensive driving from both drivers. OP sign your wife up for a defensive driving course. It’ll be less expensive in the long run.

  • Mrgreenz on 14/08/2023 - 08:17
    +1

    Both at fault,

    I bet Porche driver was pretty pissed, seems like they predicted that dashcam car might do that, just failed on the timing/execution.

    Dashcam driving was very poor there, very high risk manouver.

  • starspawn on 14/08/2023 - 10:17

    You will have to pay your excess, without the other drivers details.

  • lint on 14/08/2023 - 11:03
    +1

    The other party was at fault, but how are you gonna get them or their insurance to pay if you don't have their details? It doesn't look like their rego was captured on the dash cam either. Looks like you'll be paying excess on this one.

  • Poor Ass on 14/08/2023 - 11:44

    Porsche 100% at fault because they fail to give way

    It doesn't matter if anyone on the main road was speeding, running red lights, being reckless….. as long as there is that give way line, if they hit something they are at fault

    In a way the give way line is more powerful than the stop line because give way means exactly that

    Didn't exchange details????? why

    • trapper on 15/08/2023 - 11:44
      +1

      It doesn't matter if anyone on the main road was speeding, running red lights, being reckless…

      This is not even remotely true.

      • Poor Ass on 15/08/2023 - 12:02

        oh it's true

        you can be charged for all those things but when it comes to damages the person didn't give way is it fault

        now let me know why you think is not true?

        • trapper on 15/08/2023 - 12:10

          Explain to me how a guy blowing through a red light at 180kmph and causing an accident is 0% at fault… lol

          • Poor Ass on 15/08/2023 - 12:47
            -1

            @trapper: definitely driving recklessly and broke a bunch of road rules for sure

            but if they were on the main road and t-boned a car turning in motion from a side street for insurance purposes the car got t-boned is at fault for not giving way

      • quog on 16/08/2023 - 14:27

        you are required to give way to all vehicles within the intersection you are entering as was required by the porch driver

        • Poor Ass on 17/08/2023 - 11:38

          Yep exactly

    • Bap1337 on 17/08/2023 - 10:05

      She changed into the left lane after barely 3 clicks and 2 seconds. She’s clearly at fault.

      • Poor Ass on 17/08/2023 - 11:40

        Good luck with insurance

        Give way means give way

        If it was a stop line that would be different

        • Bap1337 on 17/08/2023 - 11:41

          That's true have to hide that dash cam footage

  • zazutata on 14/08/2023 - 12:15

    Slightly off topic question…why does so much traffic seem to favour the right-hand lane in 2 lane residential roads? In the dashcam footage, the left hand lane looks pretty much clear and would seem to a be a good option. I'm from the UK originally where the Highway Code (the 'official' handbook for driving) states that the law requires road users to keep left unless overtaking and it works well there. I've lost count of the amount of times I've almost been cleaned up in Melbourne by a last minute manoeuvre as a car dives to the left lane to keep moving when the vehicle in front puts their right-turn indicator on.

    • John Kimble on 14/08/2023 - 12:19
      +3

      Parked cars perhaps?

      • zazutata on 14/08/2023 - 13:12
        -1

        Good point

    • Ghost47 on 14/08/2023 - 13:36

      In Victoria you're only supposed to keep left unless overtaking when you're travelling on a road/freeway/tollway at 80 km/hr or more or if there is a sign for it.

      Even then people don't really keep left on roads that are 80 km from what I've seen. I personally have no issue with people sitting in the right lane on roads like Burwood Highway, Springvale Rd, Princes Highway etc. as long as they move out of the way for the cops, ambos etc.

      I always slow down a bit when I'm in an empty lane and there's traffic banked up in the next lane (like in the video) because there are people that will cut you off with very little notice.

      • bobbified on 14/08/2023 - 21:14
        +1

        travelling on a road/freeway/tollway at 80 km/hr or more

        Burwood Highway, Springvale Rd, Princes Highway

        Isn't the speed limit 80km/h on those roads? The rule in Victoria is to keep left unless overtaking on roads that are above 80km/h (regardless of signs). So this rule doesn't apply to roads, like those mentioned above, that have an 80km/h limit.

        • Ghost47 on 14/08/2023 - 22:03
          +1

          Oh yes that’s correct, and yes they are.

    • darkness on 14/08/2023 - 15:29

      She was keeping to the right as further down is a set of lights to turn right, which was her intended destination.

      • Ghost47 on 14/08/2023 - 22:05

        So she needed to be in the right hand lane anyway or could the left lane turn right as well?

        If she needed to turn right she should’ve just stayed in the lane and waited.

        • darkness on 15/08/2023 - 11:16

          She needed to turn from the right lane, but it is probably about 200-300m down the road.

          In retrospect, yes she should have stayed in her lane, or change lane before coming to a halt.

    • trapper on 15/08/2023 - 11:49

      Depends what's coming up.

      Could be most traffic turns right soon and so easier to get into that lane early.
      Could be most traffic goes straight but people being polite don't want to block up the left turners when left is green but straight is red.
      Also avoiding parked cars, lots of other reasons too.

  • johnfuller on 14/08/2023 - 13:47
    -2

    sorry to say .. accidents during lane changes are 50/50 .. meaning you cover your costs, they cover theirs, thats why alot of people stay in their lane no matter what

  • doctordv8 on 14/08/2023 - 13:56
    +2

    The judge will question and Rule as such I think.
    Did the Porsche driver stop and or give way to all other traffic prior to moving forward? L lane was clear, R lane was stopped. Does this meet the exact wording or only the intention of the Rule? A - Yes.

    Did OP driver indicate their intentions sufficiently /clearly? This vehicle was stationary, and had moved forward to the left within one second of the first Indicator flash/click, although had touched the lane line on flash/click no 2. A - No.
    Was LH still clear the moment the Porsche driver started moving forward? As far as we can see with no other information, video or witnesses at this point - Yes.

    This is where I use my logic…I hope it is valid to others as to how this collision occurred.
    Given the lane was still clear, and OP's vehicle had stopped in RH Lane without any indicator flashing, the Porsche driver was now moving, and hence looking forward and proceeded to complete his entry turn.

    The OP's vehicle driver glanced their mirror, and or shoulder check(I know - assuming) and activated LH Indicator and start accelerating to the left,(without seeing the Porsche driver had already started accelerating and entering the LH Lane - more assuming).

    The OP's vehicle driver did not look 'enough' or see other vehicle entering the lane, and even when at point of impact appeared to not slow or take evasive action to avoid the collision early enough given the very slow speed.
    Porsche driver is looking forward where they should be looking(assuming).
    OP's driver…where were they looking, as it could not have been ahead and still hit the Porsche?

    When I am in both sides of this situation, I indicate minimum 4-5 seconds or flashes before changing lanes or entering from a stationary position, and when entering I assume every car driver will jump lanes impatiently(defensive motorcycle riding training), I try anticipate every possible scenario and that every driver is out to kill me. Anal and OCD but it is how I drive - every rule - every time - all the time. I also perform a final last moment visual for that one driver changing lanes or other illegally,so I would have hopefully seen the OP's vehicle moving and stopped again, because that is how people drive unfortunately.
    r
    So, the Porsche driver could have anticipated the OP driver will break the Road Rules and change lanes - the way they did, as much as the OP vehicle driver could have anticipated the side road traffic will enter a clear lane as the RH lane had stopped, and performed their individual maneuvers with more care. Yet in fact, only the OP's vehicle driver KNEW the Porsche driver WILL enter the lH Lane…where as the the Porsche drive could only assume the OP's vehicle drivers intentions, being in the RH lane at the time.

    I would say, OP's driver is at Fault, but only when considering all the details available in OP's Dashcam. Main points being Porsche was already moving into a clear lane prior to OP 's vehicle moving to change lanes. OP's vehicle driver broke Lane change / indicator Road Rules.

    The other point, you have the Rego#, submit a claim, let the insurers sort it out.
    Oh, following ALL Road Rules, Defensive Driving courses and Road Awareness training, can never be undersold.

    • Protractor on 14/08/2023 - 14:29

      TDLR
      Serendipity brings together two incompetents who try to weld themselves to each using automotive fusion.
      Both should pay half of the total outlay & hand their licenses in.

      *You don't need to do a course to drive defensively and do it well.The problem is single digit % of ppl do, or ever will.
      Paying attention and being aware of your surroundings and behaving in a predictable way is not rocket surgery.

  • L45TPH45E on 14/08/2023 - 14:34

    Legally it's always the Porsche's fault even if your wife made a mistake and changed lanes without adequate time to indicate to inform other driver's her intention. She has right of way.

    But seriously I hate how all the cars were in the right lane causing the congestion - (profanity) use both lanes assholes.

    Also people should really teach everyone in their family what to do after a crash. I don't know why everyone expects everyone else to just know what to do.

  • Aleigh123 on 14/08/2023 - 15:14

    Porsche driver is mostly at fault. When turning onto a road from a side road, you should always be checking for oncoming cars from the right.
    I have no idea if this happened or not, but you're also supposed to indicate for a sufficient period of time (enough for someone to know you're changing lanes, i.e. not as you're changing lanes) prior to actually performing the lane change. If this was not done, I would say your wife would be partially at fault, but definitely mostly the Porsche drivers.

    To me, this seems a scenario that could have been avoided if even a single one of the involved parties had been more attentive and been more aware.

    • trapper on 15/08/2023 - 11:55
      +1

      He did look though, and the lane was clear.

      OP's wife indicated changed lanes without sufficient indication to give a proper warning.

      • Aleigh123 on 15/08/2023 - 12:11

        You're supposed to keep checking, even as you're leaving the side road. The situation on the road changed from the last time the Porsche driver looked, and when they started moving.

        But yes, it does appear that there was also insufficient warning. It's a combination of multiple factors.

  • sauce2k on 14/08/2023 - 15:39
    +1

    It's clearly Porsche's fault, no doubt but I can see why he/she was confused. Man your wife's driving tho…

  • FabriceLeb on 14/08/2023 - 15:59
    +3

    This is why we all need dash cams

  • Kamsi on 14/08/2023 - 17:29

    B = Porche is @ fault. I just don't understand why did they not exchange details unless the damage is insignificant.

  • selphie on 14/08/2023 - 18:15
    +1

    well both drivers are terribly inattentive.

  • netsurfer on 14/08/2023 - 19:32
    +1

    Car B is at fault, at the end of the road, in that situation, car B basically needs to treat it as if there is a give way sign.

    Leaving and entering a road

    When leaving or entering a road you must give way to all cyclists, pedestrians and vehicles travelling on the footpath and roads.

    Not exchanging details is a problem though (unless the car's dashcam manages to capture car B's license plate). Also, nowadays, drivers who are at fault can often deny or come up with odd excuses to shift the blame to the driver not at fault.

  • mickrb30 on 14/08/2023 - 21:19
    +2

    its SIMPLE
    Porsche driver is at fault for not giving way to oncoming traffic
    PLUS
    anyone changing lanes while it is NOT SAFE TO DO SO, is at fault (is law regardless of the circumstances)
    SO
    Conclusion - Both drivers in the wrong, both drivers at fault equally.

    Example different scenario - if both drivers are changing lanes travelling in the same direction - by law if a accident happens, both drivers equally at fault - each driver fixes their own car and is not liable to compensate the other driver.

    Believe/Confident the same will happen to OP, both drivers at fault - each driver fixes their own car with no liability to the other driver.
    WIN WIN WIN situation for insurance companies, they ONLY pay for one car to be fixed, once the excess is payed

  • Breno785au on 15/08/2023 - 11:36
    +1

    Can anyone validate that you must have indicator on for at least 3 seconds before lane change by law?

    • trapper on 15/08/2023 - 11:59
      +1

      No the rule is just 'The driver must give the change of direction signal for long enough to give sufficient warning to other drivers and pedestrians.'

  • paloverde88 on 15/08/2023 - 13:06

    Its silly your wife slowed down and appeared to proceed cautiously but im not sure why the posche still proceed seeing a car who is going about their usual business moving straight forward.

    Wife should have tooted loudly the posche must have lead foot unable to stop , thinking his fast car will make it its silly this was all at slow speed there is ample time for either or both to brake but this was not done by either or both.

    Either or both must have felt entitled to proceed merrily but as a rule oncoming traffic proceeding forward have the right of way with the exception of pedestrian where your speed has to follow the sign and walking people always have the right of way.

  • Willy Beamish on 15/08/2023 - 21:22
    +2

    B at fault, should not be turning at all even if there is a car in the far right lane.

    • nwa on 15/08/2023 - 22:42

      That's what I've been taught so surprised it not one of the first comments.

  • imurgod on 16/08/2023 - 08:44

    100% Porsche at fault. No question.

    He didn't have right of way. Note the road markings.

  • Piranha2004 on 16/08/2023 - 09:50
    +1

    Porsche will be deemed at fault for entering a road without giving way. Its no different to if the traffic was moving and someone changed lanes into the left at speed. Its why people are taught to make sure two lanes of traffic are clear before entering.

  • 4253-716HT on 16/08/2023 - 09:56

    If you did not exchange details and given the situation you are in… then there are no one left for the insurer to argue the case of who was actually at fault.
    You still can get the damage fixed at your own expense, or pay the premium to get your insurer to fix it as you have comprehensive cover.

    • nwa on 16/08/2023 - 10:58

      Its ok they have their number plate, just have to go the longer route get the info from police and pass onto insurers.

    • quog on 16/08/2023 - 14:35

      and you do know that the insurers exchange info with each other. they are not isolated business / corporation silos.

  • lainey13 on 16/08/2023 - 11:10
    +1

    Great example of yes, your wife was not at fault here, but she didn't have to prove it by sacrificing her car…

  • darkness on 16/08/2023 - 12:50

    Thanks for the advice given.

    We have had the damage assessed and it is a lot higher than our excess, so we have contacted the police to try and get the driver’s details. We have a mobile number now, but they are not picking up, so we will ask the police again on how to proceed to get the car owner’s name and address for the insurer.

    We figured nothing to lose if we needed to pay the excess anyway to get it fixed. Best case is that the insurance rules us not at fault and we don’t need to pay the excess.

    • nwa on 16/08/2023 - 17:24

      Not surprising they not answering. A relative went through an experience of hit and run said as long as you have a case number, give that to your insurer and they can liaise with police to get the driver details. In their case the insurer closed the case without refunding excess, so they had to complain a bit to get it refunded, also the driver was playing games by saying they did not feel a collision or see any damage. In your case you got video evidence.

    • Poor Ass on 17/08/2023 - 12:32

      you'll be up for the excess first if ya want your car repaired and if rules in your favour you might get a refund

    • easternculture on 19/08/2023 - 13:12

      The police will be able to give you the insurer of the car.

      Then contact your insurer, give them the number plate /insurer of porshe details and they will do the rest.

  • Mistredo on 16/08/2023 - 17:27

    My guess is that Porsche expected her to turn left. OP's wife stopped at an intersection and then indicated left. Sadly, she indicated barely for a second before moving on based on the audio in the video.

    • Bap1337 on 17/08/2023 - 09:21

      Exactly

  • Bap1337 on 17/08/2023 - 09:20
    -1

    Your wife is at fault. You must indicate for at least 5 seconds before making any lane changes. If you don’t believe me google it. She barely waited for 2 clicks before turning into the left lane.

    • Poor Ass on 17/08/2023 - 12:41
      +1

      only when you're parked… wife was not parked

      wife got T-boned as the other car didn't give way

      both drivers are shocking nevertheless

      also indicators play very little when it comes to assessing who's at fault

      the statement "they didn't indicate" is invalid

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