Fined for Rear Passenger Not Wearing Seat Belt When Engine in Stop Condition

Lright195104 on 13/08/2023 - 20:35

Long time lurker and have always been benefited from this group, first time posting, so please go easy :)

I have faced a weird situation recently. Was asked to stop the car for random drug test near Melbourne CBD area. I moved to the testing lane and then stopped the car near the officer to participate in the drug test. My brother wearing a thick puffer jacket was sitting in the rear passenger seat. While the engine was in stop state, for 30secs he opened the seat belt to take the puffer jacket out, as it was hot inside.

The officer spotted and handed over 4 demerit points and $396 fine. I politely said, engine was in stop condition when seat belt was opened, but he did not listen.

Already requested a fine review and has been denied. Shall I contest at court or accept that at fault and pay the fine?

P.S. Financially doing difficult at the moment. Hence reaching out. Please help me with your opinion / suggestion.

Poll Options expired

  • 46
    Could have been given a warning.
  • 29
    At fault, pay the fine.
  • 568
    Contest at court and might be able to win.
Automotive

Comments

  • keejoonc on 14/08/2023 - 13:26
    +1

    This sounds like the typical cop behaviour. Waste of tax payers' money.

    • belongsinforums on 17/08/2023 - 17:21
      -1

      You know cops make us money when people pay fines that cops issue, right? Where do you think the money goes?

      • Protractor on 18/08/2023 - 10:06

        But wait. It's never about revenue raising…..

  • mrvaluepack on 14/08/2023 - 14:11
    +3

    Just go to court and contest. Make sure you have your facts and answers ready. Most of the people who have commented have no idea. If what you wrote is entirely the truth, I reckon your probability of winning is around 80%. Judges usually provide leniency and common sense for cases like these.

    Let us know what's the outcome.

    • gravel on 15/08/2023 - 19:41
      +2

      Follow this response it's the best that I can see. It actually annoys the hell out of magistrates that are under enormous pressure to deal with crap like this. More likely in this situation, from experience, that they will take it out on the police and not you.
      As this commenter has said be honest and just tell the judge the facts. Don't mention hard ship ( if that exists ) or anything like that in this sort for case.
      Cop should just have warned you and allowed you to move on after the test results were in.
      It's never a certainty but odds are well in your favour.

  • kiitos on 14/08/2023 - 14:20

    Wow, that's a bit of a wake up call. If the cop asked for my driver's licence, I probably wouldn't think twice about undoing my seat belt if my wallet was hard to access.

    • try2bhelpful on 14/08/2023 - 14:29
      +3

      If you reached for it in the glove box in America, and you were black, he would probably shoot you.

      • ssfps on 15/08/2023 - 02:26
        -2

        This anti-american racist cop bullshit is so tired. Cops are scum everywhere, to (almost) everyone, it's only a racial issue for the media.

        • try2bhelpful on 15/08/2023 - 12:05

          Except it has actually happened.

          • ssfps on 16/08/2023 - 07:17
            -1

            @try2bhelpful: What "it" has "actually" happened? Do you know anything other than the soundbites the news feeds you?

            • Protractor on 18/08/2023 - 10:09

              @ssfps: Racist cops in all jurisdictions?
              Totally agree. But America holds the trophy. Hands down

              • ssfps on 18/08/2023 - 18:11
                -1

                @Protractor: Do the asian cops hate blacks, specifically, too?
                Do the black cops hate whites, specifically, too?
                Do the han cops hate uyghurs, specifically, too?
                This "whites are the racists against blacks" shit is so incredibly racist, especially since "white" to the people that parrot this means anglo, never jewish. Try saying the jewish cops are racists instead of the white cops and see how it sounds.
                The refrain then becomes some prattle about "well yeah everybody is racist but we're talking about institutional power". I refer you back to the disproportionate power held by jewish people before you make that claim - don't want to be a nazi.

                Cops are generally awful to most people, stop buying into this shit that it's all about race, all you're doing is being racist.

  • brandt on 14/08/2023 - 15:01

    Wow that is so shitty. I've previously removed my seat belt to get my wallet to show the cops my driver's licence at RBT stop.

  • PopCounty on 14/08/2023 - 15:56

    Shame on such pathetic officers. If u r gonna go by rule, go by rule then.

  • [Deactivated] on 14/08/2023 - 18:13
    +3

    Let me guess… Victoria? LOL. I just clicked Ops username… sure enough… Little Hitler control freaks have their frilly knickers in a twist now they can't abuse people for not wearing a useless muzzle.

    How is the DRIVER supposed to stop someone in the BACK SEAT who he CAN'T EVEN SEE from taking their belt off!? e.g. They may decide to get out of the car because the pigs stopped and delayed them and their back is hurting, or there's a huntsman crawling on their head, or they want to go into that house or shop!? The DRIVER may not be able to leave a car that isn't PARKED but surely passengers can get out. This is the case in NSW where you can stop momentarily to drop people off… Surely it's the same there - and how else can they get out of a car without first releasing their belt?

    This is @$%^# ridiculous. If it's not considered legally "parked" then the pigs shouldn't be able to ask you to stop there in the first place, lest your car catch on fire, or someone rear-ends you, etc or you'll get a fine you otherwise wouldn't have. Plus what about insurance… if it's not considered "parked" but police make you stop, then some drunk panics and slams into you from behind your insurance won't pay now!?

    And they wonder why people hate their guts.

    • JimmyF on 15/08/2023 - 21:47

      Let me guess

      My turn…. Let me Guess…..NSW, yep, always the first to bag out Victoria.

      • [Deactivated] on 15/08/2023 - 21:51
        -3

        Yep and very glad to escape across the border during the ~3 days Dictator Dan had a lapse and opened the border.

        • try2bhelpful on 15/08/2023 - 21:52

          Glad you left. Hope you haven’t come back.

          • JimmyF on 15/08/2023 - 21:54
            -1

            @try2bhelpful: Bet they still think the borders are closed, so can't come back!

          • [Deactivated] on 15/08/2023 - 21:56

            @try2bhelpful: It's all yours. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZIbpexA4g8

            • try2bhelpful on 15/08/2023 - 22:30
              -3

              @[Deactivated]: Yeah mate. I’m not looking up the sort of random you tube video that someone with your views have. Why do you guys keep doing this? Is that where you get your information rather than reputable sources?

              More than happy living in Victoria. Give me Dan over Dutton any day. What a miserable negative sod.

              • [Deactivated] on 16/08/2023 - 07:59
                +1

                @try2bhelpful: It's a music video. "Freedom!"

                As for random youtube videos, are you referring to all the coNvid propaganda by government disputed by thousands of medical professionals across the planet who were actively deplatformed, silenced, and fired alike because their common sense and facts went against government false narratives!? If so, you obviously didn't try too hard, didn't really give a flying ___ about your own health or that of your family and friends, to so readily swallow the shovels of contradictory pseudoscientific horseshit the mad cookers in government and "health experts" alike were pelting down your throat like you're a cement mixer.

                I just saw yet another example a couple of days ago… The "expert" medicos who routinely used ivermectin previously, then when the deadly sniffles virus that was dropping hundreds in the street like flies at our feet (because that's what a REAL "pandemic" does - at least until you rewrite its definition to hide your dishonesty), who then mocked its use as "horse dewormer" surprise, surprise, have now done a 180 degrees AGAIN and are now recommending it as standard treatment for coNvid patients.

                But by all means… you hold onto what the "experts" said yesterday, lest you get dizzy and fall under that health bus they're driving over you with.

                • Protractor on 18/08/2023 - 10:28
                  -2

                  @[Deactivated]: Professor Hindsight you should run for govt ! The senate is the spot for you.Accidentally elected extremist narrow viewpoints in the chamber of non-representative swill, make good company. You only need a handful of votes. Maybe Ozb memebers can suggest party names for you? Run a poll?

                  BTW How many covid vaccine related funerals do you go to per week? Could be a massive marketing opportunity for the party.

                  • [Deactivated] on 18/08/2023 - 18:59

                    @Protractor: None. After a few days of intensive research, no one I know was stupid enough to get one, except the next door neighbour who died of heart failure the same night. Much like all the doctors, nurses, ambulance paramedics, and hospital admin and security staff who volunteered why they also chose not to. But like I said… they're all d-heads to you too, because they contradict your brainwashing from the government and lying media (who are now admitting their errors on a nearly daily basis), right?

                    • Protractor on 18/08/2023 - 19:19

                      @[Deactivated]: NURSE!

                      • [Deactivated] on 18/08/2023 - 19:23

                        @Protractor: BAAA!!!

                        • Protractor on 18/08/2023 - 19:25

                          @[Deactivated]: Avatar checks out.

                          • [Deactivated] on 18/08/2023 - 19:30

                            @Protractor: Exactly. A representation of the gullible who took their toxic jabs like obedient, unquestioning sheep, who jump over imaginary rocks because the one in front of them did.

                            • Protractor on 18/08/2023 - 19:58

                              @[Deactivated]: It's your avatar. So it's your representation.It's a pearler.

                              • [Deactivated] on 20/08/2023 - 05:28
                                +1

                                @Protractor: Sure, whatever. Because no-one ever chose an avatar that ironically mocks other gullible idiots. Cue circus music for the troll.

                                • Protractor on 20/08/2023 - 09:40

                                  @[Deactivated]: LOL. I don't think there's a TV invented yet that could capture the shade of black in that pot of yours

  • simplerick on 14/08/2023 - 18:16

    Loopholes in the law to work against the common man, it's disgusting how the law treats society sometimes, best of luck if you do end up contesting it

  • capslock janitor on 14/08/2023 - 18:23
    +2

    report the cop for UnAustralian behaviour

  • simplerick on 14/08/2023 - 18:43

    Here's a belly scratcher for ya all then.

    Say the situation was an Uber driver with passenger in rear who decided to unbuckle their seatbelt while the driver was doing the RBT test, would the driver still cop the fine??

    If so, that's one serious concern to Uber drivers! Lol

  • simplerick on 14/08/2023 - 19:02
    +3

    Another ridiculously LONG forum post about the same scenario, pulled over at RBT, two foreign passengers not wearing seatbelts and was fined

    https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2590085

    After reading some interesting comments on that post, I've made my own assumption now that many police are aware of potential uneducated drivers who don't realise they need to keep their seatbelts or passengers seatbelts on during RBT's which is precisely how they can catch people out, like another way of giving out fines if they aren't booking people for drink driving.

    Just a theory…..

    I'm more educated at least now, so this has been a useful topic

    • JimmyF on 15/08/2023 - 21:49
      +1

      Not really the same, they didn't have the seatbelts on to start with.

  • lordezekiel on 14/08/2023 - 20:00
    +2

    So people are expecting that passengers in a car should all know the road rules back to front that they are only required to know as a drivers license holder?
    If your 6 year old in the back takes off their seatbelt when the cops pull you over that’s a fine?
    Makes no sense.

  • saltysalt on 14/08/2023 - 20:39

    Maybe the cop thought your brother was about to do a runner. They don't like anyone messing about at all when they pull you over because some of them were bullied as children.

  • payless69 on 14/08/2023 - 21:01
    -2

    Just on a holiday in Bangalore right now. Talking to lot of rich Indians about the future.
    Most see Australia as just another "lost" nation trying to plug financial mismanagement with political correctness.
    Having said that last night we were in Hosapete and one one cop on a bike picked 1 offender under thousands and gave him a fine.
    Not a single bike helmet seen in the state of Karnataka.

    • try2bhelpful on 14/08/2023 - 21:14
      +1

      You might want to ask them what the road toll is? Then again maybe an individual life just isn’t worth anything over there.

      • payless69 on 15/08/2023 - 00:50

        India is now the most populous country in the world and growing fast. China is already losing up to 200 mio a year.
        Observed traffic in both countries over many weeks. Life is still much more worth in India. I feel safer here in a rickshaw than in a beetle in Oz. 3 Days ago they had a bad accident: Road remained closed for a week. Awesome infrastructure here! Newly paved roads usually have 4 lanes and concrete barrier in between.
        Sure cops here have bad days too. The US itself has nearly double the world's average road toll. Even Florida has scooters again without helmets.
        Can't argue for Vic. Qld is even worse. Far less Vic plated cars heading for us.

        • try2bhelpful on 15/08/2023 - 12:12

          I will answer my own question.
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r…

          You might feel safer but you, actually, aren’t. If you look at the figures then the US has a lower road toll than India. India comes in just behind China based on deaths per 100,000 of the population.

          • payless69 on 15/08/2023 - 12:22

            @try2bhelpful: I would trust India 100 times more than China!
            Reading lotsa history helps!
            Very relaxing for me seeing virtually no aggression whilst in India.
            Never met so many friendly and helpful people.
            Only helpful Chinese I ever met are all in Taiwan. Empathy is not really found on the mainland.

            • try2bhelpful on 15/08/2023 - 12:31

              @payless69: Never travelled to either country so I can’t comment on friendliness I’m just quoting the stats on the road toll. However, the issue of religious intolerance, and sexual assault on females, is a well known problem in India. You may not have seen it because you aren’t likely to be affected.

              I’ve wandered through New Orleans, Atlanta and New York and never seen overt aggression but there are a lot of stats that say these places have issues.My property in Melbourne fronts onto a laneway right near a housing commission place in an inner city area. There aren’t a lot of places in the world where that would be a wise decision.

              • payless69 on 15/08/2023 - 13:19

                @try2bhelpful: Religious intolerance can only be traced back until we run out of evidence.
                1947 was one of the worst year for recent India. Nobody tracked the carnage.
                Nobody had a religious issue there for the previous 300 years.
                Well Goa was sort of special. Today it is a total mess second to the city of Agra.
                Great family life here with virtually NO alcohol issues. No drunkyards, no sport losing vandals just intelligent people try to polish up their world knowledge.
                I was born as a Roman Catholic. Sadly there are just too many issues I would not be able be proud of it.
                But hey there are zero restrictions here to practice any religion at all.

                • try2bhelpful on 15/08/2023 - 14:08

                  @payless69: The English do seem to have a particular knack of taking a small mess and turning it into a bigger one :)

                  I try to stay as far from religion as I can. Happy for people to practise it if they avoid hurting others. Unfortunately that doesn’t seem to happen very often. Then again we can say that about secular people as well.

                  Things in moderation don’t seem to be an issue. I indulge in the odd tipple but I’m disciplined enough to not get drunk and I, certainly, don’t use alcohol as an excuse to hurt others.

            • rave75 on 15/08/2023 - 16:08

              @payless69: Unless if you are a women.

    • kaleidoscope on 15/08/2023 - 10:15

      Not a single bike helmet seen in the state of Karnataka.

      That’s not a good comparison. Road rules are there for a reason. The question at hand here is different.

      • payless69 on 15/08/2023 - 12:14
        -3

        I have zero Indian blood inside me!
        Enjoying independence day here in Bengaluru.
        If I was forced to either donate 1 cent to Mr Andrews or kiss Mr Modi's bottom I would ask for dental dam!

        • try2bhelpful on 15/08/2023 - 12:22
          +3

          More than happy for people who want to live in India to stay over there. Me, I don’t want a country run by religious zealots where sexual assaults are pretty endemic and women are blamed. If that makes me “woke” then so be it. More than happy to have Andrews as my leader than Modi.

          • payless69 on 15/08/2023 - 12:27
            -1

            @try2bhelpful: Staying directly next to the largest Mosque.
            Sexual behaviour is hard to moderate from a Western mind.
            After paying more for power because of being married I do side with Muslims and call some punks infidels!

            • try2bhelpful on 15/08/2023 - 12:35

              @payless69: I would like to see the Mosque, I’m not religious but they do have some gorgeous architecture.

              Sexual behaviour is what consenting adults do, the only moderating should be stopping people who don’t follow that rule.

              Not sure on the power comment?

  • Bobbito on 14/08/2023 - 22:11
    +1

    That s ridiculous! Another example of a "nanny state" rule that is well over the top.

    I would not go to court as it is hard to see them expressing leniency…

  • kaleidoscope on 14/08/2023 - 22:27
    +1

    If what you say is true, I'd 100% contest in court. Can't let the pigs bully people like that because they got some upper hand. It may be hard to prove but worth a try. Good luck!

  • R4 on 14/08/2023 - 23:17

    Cop was being a douchebag but he's probably in the right. Tough call but there it is.

    If you have the time and will, contest it in court.

  • Mumbles on 15/08/2023 - 01:01
    +1

    Before nominating to go to court its worth writing a letter to get the fine reviewed. It costs nothing and can still elect to go to court anyway.

    If you have a recent modern car which automatically sounds an alarm for passenger seat belts and continuosly gets anoyingly louder then I'd mention the model of car and this feature in the letter.

    If it goes to court you are going to ask the judge for leniency. As others have mentioned technically the law was broken and the Police officer enforced the law.

    Most of the OzBargainers have never seen the inside of a court room before. Judges are extremely biased towards taking the side of a Police officer. Its so taken for granted that Police officers often choose not to appear in court.

    • right195104 on 15/08/2023 - 08:24

      I did write a letter and sent for review. Was denied (also mentioned in my post).

    • Eeples on 15/08/2023 - 08:33

      How can the case proceed if the police officer does not attend court ?

      • right195104 on 15/08/2023 - 08:36

        Sorry for the confusion. I meant I requested a review (not court hearing) and that request was denied. I reached out to this group to seek advise, if I should proceed to court hearing as the next step. Much thanks for responding.

      • Mumbles on 18/08/2023 - 20:40

        Only the lawyer representing the Police needs to appear (eg. a NSW Police Prosecutor) in the first hearing. They'll have the written police statement. Plus the judge can still telephone the police officer.

  • Eeples on 15/08/2023 - 08:34
    +1

    Why was it hot inside?

    • right195104 on 15/08/2023 - 08:37
      -1

      Heater was probably on high and a small car. :)

  • B00stJuice on 15/08/2023 - 10:17

    That's (profanity) rough man.

  • Hangryuman on 15/08/2023 - 10:23

    go to court and argue your case - a reasonable magistrate should throw it out.

    (that presumes you have a clean sheet with no prior arrests, criminal record, or appearances in court)

    dress in a suit or formal conservatively, shave off any threatening-looking beard or facial hair so you don't look like a crim, and stay quiet, apologetic, polite and remorseful, e.g. 'if he had known he had to keep the seatbelt fastened when we were stopped on the side of the road, he would not have unbuckled' - don't argue or act entitled, and it should be thrown out.

    dunno Vic but AFAIK in NSW there was always a free court-appointed lawyer for people unable to afford a lawyer - they might only give you a few minutes of time before the hearing and be relatively weak but better than nothing - I've also seen people represent themselves, and as long as they meet the above description they typically are let off with no penalty. The important thing is to show Remorse.

  • Breno785au on 15/08/2023 - 11:16
    +1

    If you go to court, don't say this…
    "While the engine was in stop state, for 30secs he opened the seat belt to take the puffer jacket out, as it was hot inside."

    It reeks of bullshit. Just say he was taking off his jacket.

    • Protractor on 18/08/2023 - 10:36

      To the best of my knowledge he was wearing his seatbelt prior to us being asked to pull over, and while stationary he chose to remove his bulky jacket. At this stage we were still stationary and I was occupied with the police officer.

  • happydude on 15/08/2023 - 12:42
    +1

    The definition of park is

    park, in Part 12 and for a driver, includes stop and allow the driver's vehicle to stay (whether or not the driver leaves the vehicle);

    The offence 264A reads

    264A Driver must ensure passengers comply with seatbelt requirements
    (1) The driver of a motor vehicle (other than a bus, public minibus or taxi) that is moving, or is stationary but not parked, must ensure that each passenger—

    (a) occupies a seating position that is fitted with an approved seatbelt; and
    (b) wears the seatbelt.

    If you think there is an argument you were parked then you should go to court.

    What you need to remember is that the Police need to show that you were not parked. You don't need to proof you were parked.

    If the vehicle's transmission is in the parked position and the engine is off, then it will be hard for the police to prove that you didn't allow the "vehicle to stay".

    • lgacb08 on 15/08/2023 - 13:06
      +1

      Not gonna happen, the way OP is wording his description of the event the car engine was stopped due to it being a stop start vehicle, not properly off at the ignition and put it parked position. He repeated those not once but more than twice.

      • CowFrogHorse on 15/08/2023 - 16:27

        The car was not parked - i t was stopped.

        If the driver left the car and went to maccas for a feed they would have been fined and rightly so because clearly the spot was not a parking location.

        • AnophthalmiaCervidae on 16/08/2023 - 08:42
          +1

          The fine would be for "Parking illegally".
          Parking illegally is still parking.

        • happydude on 16/08/2023 - 17:09

          As the definition above says the parked definition applies "whether or not the driver leaves the vehicle'

          I have no idea what your point is. On the one hand you say they were not parked, but then say if they left the car they would have been illegally parked. However, being in the car or not is immaterial in the definition of parked.

          WTF are you saying?

  • bobolo on 15/08/2023 - 13:41
    +1

    Dashcams should be a legal requirement nowadays.

    Even with the dashcam facing out, you would be recording the car being stationary, probably hear the car being put in park or turned off, most likely would hear when the seatbelt buckle was pressed and also when officer noticed and confronted you about it.

    All of this would help you in court (or allow you to decide its not worth fighting for)

    • try2bhelpful on 15/08/2023 - 14:02

      I wonder how people would feel if they are compelled to produce all their dashboard data if it came to a court case. I wonder how many of us stick to the road rules all the time :)

      • Spootage on 15/08/2023 - 15:06
        +1

        Not hard to only share a snippet of the part that is required ;)

      • Protractor on 15/08/2023 - 17:18

        We are almost Truman show already. Plod asks for CCTV footage all the time. I hope the massive amount of evidence is actually resulting in more convictions of serious crime, and a safer community, but if news reports and stats are correct, guess what.
        So that's Crimestoppers and massive CCTV resource available + a huge increase in personnel + beefed up powers ,laws and fleet, and yet?

        Oh , well at least that dangerous seat belt shuffler is a notch on a belt

        • try2bhelpful on 15/08/2023 - 19:17

          Actually the CCTV is making a difference. Having footage of suspected miscreants does help with catching, and convicting, them. The press does like to sensationalise so it is hard to get a good idea but the statistics tend to show a downward trend.

          My area is pretty rife with graffiti. We refuse to leave any on our place so we are one of the few they don’t touch. We have a property near us where they had graffiti problems so they installed cameras. Then they plastered up pictures showing who the graffiti people were. The place wasn’t touched after that.

          My point was in reply to the concept of dashcams becoming a legal requirement. People should be careful as to what they wish for as it might bite them back.

          • Protractor on 15/08/2023 - 19:36

            @try2bhelpful: Yeah I get it. Just adding onto that with all the added bling the cops have and willing reporting and tech, that crime should be heading south, a lot more than it is. There's something whiffy when there's so many shootings linked to gang crime etc.on top of so many additional cops and specialist gang teams etc.
            Plod should of himself a favour and build some better relationships with the punters. NZ seems to manage OK.
            As a species what we 'don't do' now has as much impact on the world around us, as what we do, do. Mainly because we have WAY passed our safe manageable limit as far nature goes.

            We don't need compulsory cams in cars. There's too much crap in new cars now. Driving should require attention, not obfuscation.

            • try2bhelpful on 15/08/2023 - 19:47

              @Protractor: The problem is “somebody” decided to concentrate on refugees in boats instead of ensuring we didn’t get organised crime thugs on planes.I suspect a lot of these shootings will settle down because tracing back from the victims will lead to the perpetrators. The “you can’t deport someone who is being sent home to a risky situation” won’t fly with people associated with violent crimes. These guys will pull their heads in again because the cops will make it too hot for them. It just takes the cops a bit of time to get the ducks lined up. Crime pays well, they can afford good lawyers.

              Personally if they just shot each other and didn’t hit anyone else I’d be pretty happy to leave them to it. Saves all of us the expense of the trial and them being in prison for a long time.

              Don’t disagree with overcrowding and human impact. We seem determined to make the only planet we have unliveable. Once it scrapes us off it will just continue with different species. Eventually it will find a disease we don’t stop in time.

              • Protractor on 15/08/2023 - 19:52

                @try2bhelpful: Crime pays alright. (till you go down)
                https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-15/drug-arrests-methamph…

                I reckon we'll be needing more RC into policing sooner rather than later. Tech has added another layer of $$$ since the last one. I presume crooks are already using AI.

                • try2bhelpful on 15/08/2023 - 19:56

                  @Protractor: It is a tad depressing. To a certain degree the ubiquitous mobile phone camera with the GPS is providing the cops with a layer of surveillance they don’t have to pay for. I’m tempted to put a camera on the front of our property but I’m not sure I want to see what really happens in our street :)

                  • Protractor on 15/08/2023 - 20:33

                    @try2bhelpful: Do it in this order.
                    Bunker
                    Landmines (strategically placed)
                    Cameras

                    • try2bhelpful on 15/08/2023 - 20:41

                      @Protractor: Love the list. We have attack cats. As soon as someone breaks into our house and goes up the stairs the cats will run under their feet and the burglars will plunge to their deaths.

                      • Protractor on 15/08/2023 - 20:58

                        @try2bhelpful: OK until a cat burglar rocks up

                        • try2bhelpful on 15/08/2023 - 21:18

                          @Protractor: Like it. Best of luck trying to pick our girls up, he will lose an arm. Unless he offers them poached chicken then he will be their friend forever.

                          • Protractor on 15/08/2023 - 21:45

                            @try2bhelpful: Burglar beware of cat scratch fever. Can be the slow ticking time bomb.

                            Not sure the average burglar can be arsed preppy any steamed chook,though.

                            • bobolo on 16/08/2023 - 01:04

                              @Protractor: its not surveilance….its for private use as a defense mechanism.

                              The world is different place now with smart phones and touchscreen ipads in cars like Teslas. People are too distracted when driving and collisions as a result are a huge problem.

                              • try2bhelpful on 16/08/2023 - 01:24

                                @bobolo: People in general are more distracted. Walking down the street is a nightmare of dodging people looking at their phones. Sometimes I just stop to see if they will notice before they run into me.

                                What I was pointing out, all those posts ago, was that if the dashcams are compulsory then cops may start finding ways to get hold of your footage. They may find ways to use it to look back through your history for times you broke the law. Private now, maybe not so much in the future.

                                • bobolo on 16/08/2023 - 08:54

                                  @try2bhelpful: Yep you are right. Cops will try to get a hold of your footage. But since its private property you have full control over it. If you feel like whatever you were doing may incriminate yourself, a quick press of 2 buttons on the dashcam will erase everything. You can even do this as the cop is walking over to your car as you are getting pulled over. It's not illegal to operate your dashcam when car is parked and stationary. You can even unbuckle your seatbelt :)

                              • Protractor on 16/08/2023 - 09:58
                                -1

                                @bobolo: The world is different because it's overpopulated with selfish destructive humans.It won't get better. As far as looking fwd goes, these are the glory days.

                            • try2bhelpful on 16/08/2023 - 01:16

                              @Protractor: We use the InstantPot. It makes it a lot less of a chore. However we’ve produced two Pavlov’s cats. As soon as they hear the float go down they think they are getting poached chicken.

      • dojomojo on 16/08/2023 - 10:02

        Footage would be "accidentally" deleted, just like cop body cam footage.

  • frostman on 15/08/2023 - 15:45

    Police discretion is always something on my mind, they can at times enforce a rule without penalising you, depending on how they assessed your situation/character/traffic history..

    BUT…

    In saying that, you weren't parked, you were stationary.
    So if a car driving down at 60km/h+ failed to stop the RDT and smash your rear, your brother, and his puffer jacket would be flying out the front windshield.

  • fozzie on 15/08/2023 - 15:54

    What the hell. So sorry to hear this op. Unbelievable and don’t know what to recommend to be honest

  • CowFrogHorse on 15/08/2023 - 16:26

    Why were your stopped for a drug test ?

    You were stopped because you were driving, stopping and parking for a test is part of the driving act. Just because you have stopped doesnt mean you arent driving.

    The law does not say you can take your seat belts off when the car has stopped for a drug test… we all know your back seat passenger was not wearing a selt belt so pay the fine and learn from your mistake.

    Just because a car is stopped doesnt mean its not driving. Cars stop at traffic lights all the time, that doesnt mean you can get drunk and leave a car there because its stopped or parks using your wording.

    https://www.nsw.gov.au/driving-boating-and-transport/roads-s…

  • Empharand on 15/08/2023 - 16:41

    Seems like Police are on a little bit of a power-trip with this one.

    OP when you say in an 'Off State' are you referring to a Stop/Start engine where the engine turns off momentarily when you're stopped and turns back on when you put your foot on the accelerator, or are you saying that your car was stopped but ignition was running?

  • nosey on 15/08/2023 - 17:44
    +1

    Havent read thread, but lawyers and time off work to contest fine will cost more in $ and emotion. Pay and move on.

  • Cave Fire on 15/08/2023 - 18:47

    Ok.. is it a stop and start car? So you can stop the engine while car is still on? surprised no one saw the passenger before moving the car to test area. Maybe this would be on their body cams. Maybe make a complaint directly to the Sgt? Or get local legal advice. Often they know the cops so can advise further.

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