Giving Shorter Notice Period When Resigning

LanceVance on 01/11/2023 - 12:10

Hi,

I've accepted a role with a new company and they want me to start in 2 weeks time. Once I signed my contract I gave my notice to my current employer saying I would be finishing in 2 weeks. I did this due to an agreement with the new company but also with the knowledge there is very little work on at the moment so I wouldn't be leaving anyone up the proverbial creek.
While is hasn't happened yet my current employer is sending signals that they're going to be a bit difficult about it, pointing to my employment contract saying I should've given 4 weeks notice but that they will confirm my final date.

I know these instances have happened many times before but have never been through this process myself, can anyone give any advice of what to do should they choose to be very inflexible about it?
Thanks

Education & Work

Comments

    • outlander on 01/11/2023 - 12:16
      +77

      Companies will tell you they don't need you on the Friday before Christmas. Sounds like the boss is just pissed that one of his serfs has dared to leave

      • Fredfloresjr on 01/11/2023 - 12:17

        Few but not all. Most companies have courtesies but not ALL, like OP.

      • onetwothreefour on 01/11/2023 - 12:25
        +6

        Most will pay you for the notice period that is in your contract.

      • ozbargainy on 02/11/2023 - 12:00
        +10

        Absolutely, got redundant while on annual leave overseas mid Dec last year- bunch of $unt$

        • outlander on 02/11/2023 - 14:14
          +4

          Know how that feels. Last job fired me on my birthday

        • arcticmonkey on 03/11/2023 - 04:15

          Also got the arse by a brutal tech company alongside 25% of the office right before Christmas

          In my current role, my boss was brutally laid off.

          These companies, particularly in tech don't give a crap about workers.

    • PeterSnoot on 02/11/2023 - 08:44
      +2

      The OP will get away with it but it is a dick move. The longer term impact definitely depends on the role and industry.

      • Fredfloresjr on 02/11/2023 - 09:04
        +8

        I get negged for asking the OP to be professional.

        Hope OP won't be coming back here "I was terminated without prior notice, can I do anything about it" lol

        • SlickMick on 02/11/2023 - 09:19
          +1

          well now you've got 2 votes from me

        • ssfps on 02/11/2023 - 14:27
          +8

          Most calling out of "professionalism" is gaslighting.

          Putting the company and individual worker on equal footing w.r.t obligations and etiquette ignores the huge power imbalance.

    • TiredKitty78 on 02/11/2023 - 18:25
      +4

      Professional company: We don't need you now you've trained your secret replacement, security will escort you out.

  • GG57 on 01/11/2023 - 12:13
    +44

    I would have gone with four weeks for both organisations, as that is the current employment contractual requirement.

      • RMBC on 02/11/2023 - 09:27
        +12

        What nonsense. If you sign a contract agreeing to terms, those are the terms, other than in very specific circumstances, such as contravention of the Fair Work Act, or you were coerced. There are potential penalties for not serving the full notice period, generally financial penalties. Ultimately it will depend on the clauses in the contract, however saying you can ignore your contract is terrible advice.

        Most businesses just cop it on the chin due to the costs of litigation, both in time and money, particularly with a reduced likelihood of recovery, however that doesn't mean they wouldn't win.

        • factor on 03/11/2023 - 17:19

          It's civil law - the company would need to show financial damage due to leaving early. If it truly is a quiet time and they don't need to pay someone overtime to cover the gap — no damage.

    • Seraphin7 on 01/11/2023 - 16:03
      +5

      This is the only correct answer. You tell your new employer you can commence in four weeks. You provide your resignation to your current employer and attempt to negotiate a shorter notice period.

      Now, obviously, if it comes to it, you can just do a no show for the last two weeks and despite carry on and making your life painful, there's probably not much they can do about it … other than mark you as "not to be employed again" in the HR system and potentially give you a bad wrap down the road when someone asks about you ("ah, yeah, I remember that one … just walked out on us during the notice period … maybe think about hiring/promoting someone else").

      • SlickMick on 02/11/2023 - 09:22

        depending on the role and the contract, there could well be something the former employee could do if he's undertaking other work whilst still in their employment. I need to get approval before I can take a 2nd job.
        If the new role is servicing the same clients he could lose his house in upcoming legal costs.

  • mskeggs on 01/11/2023 - 12:17
    +8

    What are they going to do? You aren't enslaved.

    • GG57 on 01/11/2023 - 12:20
      +14

      The employer may withhold some of any outstanding payments to OP, aligned with the two weeks short notice period.

      • mskeggs on 01/11/2023 - 13:29
        +24

        They would be entitled to withhold payment for the unworked fortnight, of course, and you wouldn’t accrue any leave etc on the unworked period, but they have no basis to withhold pay for earned income.
        As jv says below, all they can do is pursue you for breach of contract, which would be laughable over 2 weeks desired work.

        • Ayanami on 02/11/2023 - 09:34

          They can deduct from pay if it’s expressly provided for in their contract and not against any express term of an industrial instrument.

          • mskeggs on 02/11/2023 - 09:47
            +4

            @Ayanami: But what could they deduct? You don’t owe the employer your salary if you don’t work.
            Only if they contract had some sort of termination clause where the employee had a penalty for breach - and I have never heard of this outside commercial contracting (i.e. not employment contracts).

            • gromit on 02/11/2023 - 22:33
              +1

              @mskeggs: Some contracts actually make you liable for the cosf of hiring a contractor for the time you are contracted to work for. Basically read your contract carefully.

    • jv on 01/11/2023 - 12:49
      -1

      What are they going to do?

      Sue for damages.

      • mskeggs on 01/11/2023 - 13:29
        +9

        Indeed, good luck to them.

    • dwarves on 03/11/2023 - 05:19

      Good one. Can’t wait to see someone query whether their employer can kick them to the kerb with two weeks’ notice when their contract provides for four. Surely you’re not the sort to apply double standards, so you’ll advise that person to just cop it sweet. Yes yes?

      • mskeggs on 03/11/2023 - 07:58

        Employment law is not the same as contract law, and there are additional protections for people who are employees. I don’t especially care about double standards when one party is an individual and another is a corporation - if you do, have a think about why that is, and who might have convinced you that a corporation is deserving of the same consideration as a person.

        • dwarves on 03/11/2023 - 08:21

          In the same breath you acknowledge that the law already affords companies fewer rights than it does employees, and you encourage employees to go further and defy those already limited rights.

          I’m going to guess you still don’t appreciate your foolishness so I’ll spell it out even more clearly. The law already accounts for the perceived power imbalance as between employees and companies. By going further, you are taking the law into your own hands. That last statement holds true for both companies and employees. So, yes, I do think corporations and employees are entitled to have contractual counterparties held to their bargain within the bounds of the law - because the law already accounts for the power imbalance you complain of.

        • dwarves on 03/11/2023 - 16:01

          Oh btw. The employment relationship is one of contract. Your assertion that it is not is patently bizarre, and a further of your ability to competently and intelligently contribute on this topic.

          • mskeggs on 03/11/2023 - 19:10

            @dwarves: Employment law trump's contractual agreement everytime.
            Not sure why you would think an employment contract would take precedence. OP is free to leave, may be sued by their former employer if they can demonstrate any costs attributable to leaving with 2 weeks notice instead of four, but can you find any example of this ever happening?
            Incredibly unlikely, and the employer would risk being rebuked by the judge for wasting everyone's time.

            • dwarves on 03/11/2023 - 19:41

              @mskeggs: It was you who said "employment law is not the same as contract law", despite employment contracts being…uhhhhhh…well…contracts. I assume your attempted retort will be "buuuut there are, like, LAWS and stuff about EMPLOYMENT! My point was they take precedence!". Yeah but that's sure not what you initially said and also, well, duh. There are laws about all sorts of things, and all contracts - including but not limited to employment contracts - are subservient to statute. Until I retired I ran L&C for a business with some 50,000 employees, so you can safely assume I'm across that little fact. And you can also safely assume we sued several employees who each thought the law didn't apply to them, and who each at sometimes extreme cost discovered otherwise. A brief glance at your comment history suggests you might be in the profession yourself, and if so, I do hope - perhaps forlornly… - that your client advice differs markedly from the anti-capitalist guff you spew from behind an anonymous internet cloak.

              ps except in the context of that big orange crooked ex-presidential dope having possession of something, "trumps" is a plural. Though your use of a greengrocer's apostrophe does not surprise.

              cheers champ, you stay awesome now

  • John Kimble on 01/11/2023 - 12:30
    +28

    Take two weeks of sick/annual/unpaid leave

    • SlickMick on 02/11/2023 - 09:24
      +1

      This. My ex-colleague apparently always gives notice whilst on leave, and never comes back.

    • ssfps on 02/11/2023 - 14:30

      Glad to see this already suggested.

  • tsunamisurfer on 01/11/2023 - 12:35
    +10

    Ultimately you can just no show up to the old work for the 2 weeks.

    They cannot penalise you and you will still get your entitlements.

    You will never work for that company again.

    What the normal process is to tell your new employer your contract states 4 weeks notice but you will negotiate with your current boss to shorten if possible. Not just automatically sign for 2 weeks.

  • dtc on 01/11/2023 - 12:39
    +8

    take 2 weeks sick leave and work the other job…(assuming your current job doesnt prevent you working a 2nd job)

    you stuffed up agreeing to a start date that is earlier than your current job's finishing date. Your best option is just to push for an early finish on the basis that it saves your current employer money - will cost them more to keep you employed than the value of your work (hardly a ringing endorsement of your value but there you go)

    Your current employer is legally correct but practically its not worth their time to take the actions required (an injunction) which will make you turn up or stop you starting your new job. However they can still cause you issues. For example, if you are entitled to a pay out of unused annual leave then they might refuse to do it and make you fight for it. Or even not pay your salary entitlements (although the latter is a bit risky for them). End of the day you will get your money but they may make it difficult

    If you were a particularly important person then perhaps they would try an injunction or something, but (to be blunt) the fact you only have a 4 week notice period means you arent 'particularly important';

    Might bad mouth you around town.

    • jv on 01/11/2023 - 12:50
      +2

      take 2 weeks sick leave and work the other job…

      You mean commit fraud ?

      • Jolakot on 01/11/2023 - 13:27
        +5

        It's called a mental health break

      • SlickMick on 02/11/2023 - 09:26
        +2

        I had upvoted previous comment until you opened my eyes. Rec leave yes, sick leave no.

      • smartazz104 on 03/11/2023 - 12:17
        +1

        Hey if he was wealthy he'd get nothing more than a slap on the wrist for fraud.

    • Dollar General on 01/11/2023 - 12:53
      +1

      Absolute rubbish. You watch too much TV

      Employers must pay their statutory obligations such as annual leave.

      • jv on 01/11/2023 - 13:38
        +1

        Employers must pay their statutory obligations such as annual leave.

        Only if contract has not been breeched.

        • Dollar General on 01/11/2023 - 13:45
          +11

          Statutory obligations are law. Employers cannot contract out of them.

          4 weeks notice is not a statutory obligation. Withholding pay and annual leave entitlements is illegal

          • jv on 01/11/2023 - 13:45
            -4

            @Dollar General:

            Statutory obligations are law.

            Contracts are also law.

            • Dollar General on 01/11/2023 - 13:47
              +6

              @jv: You don’t seem to understand what statutory means

              • jv on 01/11/2023 - 13:49
                -7

                @Dollar General: You don’t seem to understand what contract means

                • Dollar General on 01/11/2023 - 13:51
                  +12

                  @jv: Contracts are a civil matter.

                  Not paying statutory obligations is a criminal matter

                  Keep showing us how ignorant of the law you are

                  • mattmel96 on 02/11/2023 - 17:23

                    @Dollar General: Depending on the wording of the contract, if they fail to work the notice period the employer may be entitled to deduct that value from any final payments for annual or long service leave.

                    • Dollar General on 02/11/2023 - 19:19
                      +1

                      @mattmel96: Again, an employer cannot contract out of their statutory obligations.

                      They owe what they owe. The 2 weeks not worked they will need to claim via negotiation with OP or court

                      • mattmel96 on 05/11/2023 - 14:44

                        @Dollar General: Sorry, incorrect. They can legally deduct any monies owed no them, in this instance for work not performed from any final payments. Same as if you have been given an advance, they can deduct that from any final payment

                        They acknowledge their statutory obligations of your entitlement for annual leave, long service leave, etc however are well within their rights to deduct any monies owing from that value.

        • John Kimble on 01/11/2023 - 14:36
          +4

          breeched

          What do pants have to do with anything?

      • dtc on 01/11/2023 - 14:45
        +1

        You dont seem to have read the comment. I said they could withhold it and make OP jump through hoops to recover it but at the end of the day you will get your money

        Rule one of commercial negotiations - the person who has what you want has power over you. If you want them to pay you money and they dont pay it, you have to go through a lot of steps to make them pay. Many a court case has settled because the plaintiff has given up trying to get what they are entitled to in the face of reticence.

  • sumyungguy on 01/11/2023 - 12:44

    If you're paid fortnightly you should get away with giving 2-weeks notice. Is there an award applicable to your current role?

  • garetz on 01/11/2023 - 12:47
    +3

    Its not like you are a slave and they can force you to work those extra 2 weeks.

  • apsilon on 01/11/2023 - 12:47
    +15

    ULPT: Just tell them you're going to a competitor but don't want to say which for obvious reasons. You'll get walked out the door right away and paid out for your notice period.

    • Pcosmic on 01/11/2023 - 15:08

      This is a good one. Does it actually work?

      • apsilon on 01/11/2023 - 15:58
        +2

        Probably depends on the company and/or industry but I've seen it dozens of times and done it once.

    • Seraphin7 on 01/11/2023 - 16:04
      +3

      Might work, might not. Have tried this one on myself, hoping to be bundled out the door … four weeks later I finally got out.

  • Dollar General on 01/11/2023 - 12:51
    +5

    Your employer can’t enforce the 4 weeks. All they can do is not pay you the full 4 weeks notice period.

    They cannot withhold any of your statutory payments such as annual leave, long service leave etc.

    Employment contracts are worthless. Sports people constantly break contracts to move to other clubs & even lawyers break legal contracts to go elsewhere.

    Employers should focus on retaining staff before they leave not enforcing 4 week notices

    • CrowReally on 01/11/2023 - 13:21
      +2

      Employment contracts are worthless. Sports people constantly break contracts to move to other clubs & even lawyers break legal contracts to go elsewhere.

      That doesn't mean the contracts are worthless, it just means the sports star/new club has factored the break contract fee into their negotiations (or the clubs are in such a position they can put counter terms to the old club).

      Show up at work pissed and take a dump in the photocopier if you want to see how "worthless" the terms of your own employment contract are.

    • jv on 01/11/2023 - 13:46
      -1

      All they can do is not pay you the full 4 weeks notice period.

      They could also sue you for any costs incurred in you not meeting your obligations.

      • Dollar General on 01/11/2023 - 13:50
        +2

        They can sue for any loss suffered as opposed to costs incurred.

        What would the loss be here? Cost more to file the court paperwork

        • jv on 01/11/2023 - 13:51

          What would the loss be here?

          Financial loss to the business.

          • Dollar General on 01/11/2023 - 13:52
            +11

            @jv: Yes but how much?

            You are struggling here mate. Stick to bold writing some witty comments

            • jv on 01/11/2023 - 14:11

              @Dollar General:

              Yes but how much?

              Ask the company accountants…

            • dtc on 01/11/2023 - 14:46

              @Dollar General: Cost of hiring a short term replacement for 2 weeks from a labour hire firm (less the cost of OPs wages, which would have been paid anyway).

              • Dollar General on 01/11/2023 - 15:05
                +6

                @dtc: Ok so how much is that? $2K?

                Going to court is at least a $10K min process. Judge is not going to award full legal costs if any costs at all.

                Maybe in the world you live stranger things happen, but in the real world, people quit their jobs regularly and don’t work out their notice period and businesses just move on

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 01/11/2023 - 13:02
    +7

    Have never understood the mentality of bosses/managers who kick up a stink.
    I would be offering to even let them go immediately. If they got other plans there is no way most people would still be putting in even 50% effort.
    Forcing someone to stay is also a great way to prob find your stuff sabotaged or worse.

    • Seraphin7 on 01/11/2023 - 16:06
      +1

      Forcing someone to stay is also a great way to prob find your stuff sabotaged or worse.

      Not sure what industry/workplaces you're used to, but in my experience the worst that happens is people just mentally check out and you get reduced output. Not sure who would go around "sabotaging" stuff.

      • ssfps on 02/11/2023 - 14:39
        +1

        I've seen a few people get put on garden leave for no apparent reason, just worked on slightly sensitive stuff and security breaches are all the rage now.

  • scrambledeggs on 01/11/2023 - 13:10
    +7

    Some misleading information in this thread around "what can they do", they can dock your entitlements.

    The way it works is:

    If you have say 5 weeks of leave saved up when you resign, and you give notice that you'll be leaving in 2 weeks when your contractual notification is 4 weeks, then they can dock you 2 weeks off your accrued annual leave. In other words, the second 2 weeks after you leave will be considered "annual leave". Whereas if you quit with a 4 week notice period and they tell you to leave after two weeks, they have to pay you all of the 4 week notice period plus your entire 5 weeks of leave.

    • mskeggs on 01/11/2023 - 14:17
      +2

      Sure, but you still get paid for all the actual work you do and the leave you have accrued. The second option just means an additional 2 weeks of work/pay.

      • scrambledeggs on 01/11/2023 - 14:24
        +1

        In my experience, if you give 4 weeks notice they often tell you to wrap up after 2-3 weeks and still pay your entire notice period + any leave accrued, but your mileage may vary.

        • mskeggs on 01/11/2023 - 14:24
          +1

          This is true.

    • 2024 on 02/11/2023 - 13:36

      Kinda depends on several things - in some cases they can only dock wages owed, not leave

  • Pcosmic on 01/11/2023 - 13:31

    If it's a WFH type, take 2 weeks of sick leave since it won't be paid out anyway. Or just "work" both jobs at the same time.

    Normally, there's not much work if the handover is good. They would probably just ask you some questions here and there.

  • star-ggg on 01/11/2023 - 13:34
    +1

    have happened many times before

    Yeap, those people blew up the bridge and rode away into the sunset

    • skidexa on 02/11/2023 - 14:43

      Someone in my company (big 4) got fired for abusing/misusing cab charges. A fews later they are back…

      • star-ggg on 02/11/2023 - 15:05

        Burning bridges in corporate culture means offending people and destroying relationships. This is more important for a career and job prospects then personal misconducts. Look at the CEOs that get fired from a poorly performing company then get hired immediately as a CEO at another. Similarly, all the people of authority with proven sexual harassment cases that have their victims fired or the perpetrator reassigned to a similar position.

  • Drakesy on 01/11/2023 - 13:47

    If your contract has 4 weeks notice then you need to give 4 weeks notice just use the rest of your leave, the labour market is in employee's favour. If you're in demand just tell your new company to wait another 2 weeks.

    Don't throw away your leave, it's the number one way to get burnt out/not enjoy life.

  • Ozbar Gain on 01/11/2023 - 13:57
    +2

    pointing to my employment contract saying I should've given 4 weeks notice but that they will confirm my final date.

    Why did you resign with 2 weeks notice when your contract states 4 weeks?

  • djsweet on 01/11/2023 - 14:11
    +1

    If you agreed to a 4 week notice period, you should have given 4 weeks notice. That is the right thing to do. However, if you just don't show up after two weeks there isn't much your current employer can do about it.

  • Gunnar on 01/11/2023 - 16:07

    Yeah 4 weeks as said above.

    What I would be really concerned about is if you told your new employee that you needed to give 4 weeks contractually and they said you can have 2.

  • bobbified on 01/11/2023 - 19:16

    You would've known what your notice period (that you agreed to when you first signed on) when you went out and agreed to start in two week's time. It's a dick move to not even try negotiate with your current employer first.

    Having said that, companies often do not want someone around if they don't want to be around. The risk of someone doing damage to the company (like destroying files, etc) while being "forced" to be there is not worth it. So the company will probably agree to let you go early, but it's not a good look - especially if it's small industry where 'people know people'.

  • ozbargainsam on 01/11/2023 - 20:09
    +3

    Gotta love how hard the OP phrased their post like they're not the bad guy.

    • 'difficult about it'
    • 'inflexible'

    Yes, you are those things. You agreed to something you technically can't oblige, and everyone else is the bad guy. The employer, who is the owner of the contract, is in their right to 'be difficult about it'. You're at the mercy of your current employer/manager.

    Just wait until OP is at the other end of this situation and they're trying to enforce terms of a contract. Bet OP doesn't think they're being 'inflexible' then.

    • ssfps on 02/11/2023 - 14:45
      -1

      experience demonstrates that there may be a slavery of wages only a little less galling and crushing in its effects than chattel slavery, and that this slavery of wages must go down with the other

  • Wiadro on 02/11/2023 - 08:41
    +2

    Ten days sick leave no worries

  • SlickMick on 02/11/2023 - 09:42
    +2

    In my last role I was fulltime casual, so I agreed to start a new role the next Monday and only gave 3 days notice. The old employer wasn't happy, well they should have given me paid leave etc. In my job before that, a whole team was sacked with a couple of hours notice.

    But when you have a real job, with clear conditions like giving each other 4 weeks notice to handover work/ find a replacement/ make alternate arrangements, these should be honoured.
    Although legal, I think giving notice whilst on leave is a dick move also. That doesn't give the opportunity for a handover. Unless there is special circumstances e.g. family emergency requiring relocation etc. Another example: A friend was in a really stressful role. They used up stress leave, LSL, rec leave and eventually just couldn't come back. But company had moved on my then - no need for a handover.
    So there might be circumstances where it is reasonable to not work the notice period, but this isn't one of them.

  • ytthr on 02/11/2023 - 12:08
    +2

    If it's very stressful, take stress leave!

  • kaleidoscope on 02/11/2023 - 12:17
    +2

    While is hasn't happened yet my current employer is sending signals that they're going to be a bit difficult about it, pointing to my employment contract saying I should've given 4 weeks notice but that they will confirm my final date.

    What's so difficult about going by what you have agreed to and signed in your contract? What has happened to the meaning of signing a contract… Will you be happy if the employer decided to let you go and only compensate you for just 2 weeks while your contract states 4? Has it ever occurred to you that a notice period serves employer as well to give them enough time to go through a recruitment phase to fill your space?

    That being said, you're most likely going to have to pay for the days you fall short of your notice period. You can alternatively use the acquired remaining annual leaves (not personal leaves) to offset any of these days. Based on your relationship with the company they can cut you some slack for this gap (or not).

    Good luck and be professional in your next gig going forward :)

  • Wilson Wallace on 02/11/2023 - 12:43

    If you’ve been there under 1 year, it’s 2 weeks. Depends on the org I believe. But yeah, dick move if it’s 4 weeks notice. You can always work both jobs anyway but new job takes priority.

  • happyhammer on 02/11/2023 - 14:20
    +2

    Make sure you don't burn any bridges. Employment is a long game and Australia is a very small place.

  • mountaineer on 02/11/2023 - 15:30
    +1

    Why would you burn the bridge? Did your current employer p**s you off badly? Obvioulsy you are very new to workplace and have a long career ahead of you so be considerate, be frank with both your current and furture employer, negotiate the best outcome for both, it is not that hard as people are reasonable especially if they are not competitors.

  • MonkeyMagic1977 on 02/11/2023 - 17:07

    The best I had was where an employee requested to finish up in 2 weeks rather than 4 as per their contract. I was fine with it, but the company wasn't happy with her and didn't want to set a precedent internally. Unfortunately for the company the two weeks corresponded with the end of month which she had already been paid up to, with no annual leave/LSL outstanding. Basically she didn't look back at the end of the 2 weeks…she was one step ahead of them.

  • alabatusa on 02/11/2023 - 17:20

    rock up at work and do nothing. take a holiday, your new employer can wait

  • baskinghobo on 02/11/2023 - 20:51

    All these suggestions are crazy. Just communicate this to your new employer and ask them if you can start 2 weeks later than agreed. The worst they will say is no.

    • star-ggg on 02/11/2023 - 22:32

      Then OP will be seen as a nuisance by both companies

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