Hi all. I’m in WA and considering the installation of a whirlybird at our house, because of the hot summer that’s forecasted.
Would you guys recommend the installation of such whirlybirds? Are they expensive? What are your experiences with them?
Thoughts welcome!
Apparently you need at least 10 to 15 whirlybirds for an avg Australian home…
I don't get the article. Firstly it says that without wind they won't spin and are useless. Don't they spin due to rising/escaping heat?
They also don't suggest what the more "modern" solutions are?
"Don't they spin due to rising/escaping heat"
No
"more "modern" solutions "
Building solar passive, or adding E-Vents
They are worth it, combine them with proper insulation. I would buy quality whirlybirds though. You don’t want to go back up due to a cheap bearing.
You must have missed the bit that said WA…. They don't do insulation over there! Just slap up some double brick walls, add single glazing, then slap some tiles on the roof and call it job done!
Our home is insulated on top - not double brick - apparently like most East Coast homes.
East coast homes have insulation in the walls and ceilings. We now have a 7 star rating as standard in VIC too, so double glazing is now pretty standard.
I've got family in the west, and comparing houses in the west to the east, is like comparing chalk and cheese!
@JimmyF: I've got family in the west, and comparing houses in the west to the east, is like comparing chalk and cheese!
There are houses and there are houses.
Sorry but the compare is pointless unless specifics about building costs, owner's expectations, builder's skills & knowledge and etc. etc.
A cheap crappy VIC new dwelling will not compare to a properly one built in "the west".
And anywhere else too.
A cheap crappy VIC new dwelling will not compare to a properly one built in "the west".
LOL by properly built west house, you mean the double brick walled house on a slab, no wall insulation, single glazing, tile roofed, no eaves, but has ceiling insulation?
owner's expectations
In VIC is mandated that now all houses have to be 7 star rated, up from 6 stars. What rating are these amazing WA houses?
@JimmyF: LOL
Up form 6 to 7. WOW. And how recent is that?
There is crap dwellings all over the country. No exclusions.
And is its owners expectations the ones that dictates proper extra sound proofing, triple glazing with windows that seal, pipe insulation, air re-circulation and the whole lot.
As there is crap everywhere there are also jewels everywhere … North, West, South and East.
It is the build, not the location/place!
Up form 6 to 7. WOW. And how recent is that?
All new builds have to be 7 stars now.
There is crap dwellings all over the country. No exclusions.
For sure. So what is the start rating of WA houses again?
It is the build, not the location/place!
and WA builds are not 'great' which was the point.
@JimmyF: Obviously you have issues with WA dwellings "wanting" to believe magically yours has none.
Mine is better than yours syndrome.
Some owners will build well well above "basic regulations and ratings".
You know, a nice place.
That's the point actually :-]
Obviously you have issues with WA dwellings "wanting" to believe magically yours has none.
Mine is better than yours syndrome.
Not at all, I've seen both being built….. There are very clear differences between the two.
Some owners will build well well above "basic regulations and ratings".
Some but not many go above the bare legal minimum required, that applies in both states.
That's the point actually :-]
LOL no its not, see your point above, we are comparing what 80% of people build, which is the bare minimum allowed. Not what a small % build.
@JimmyF: Why on earth are you hell bent into thinking/wishing WA dwelling owners are all mindless, careless or stupid to build a new crappy house???
Did you witness "hundreds" of builds?
Are you only comparing cheap, basic, money struggling builds?
Your generalization of WA builds doesn't pass the pub test.
Why your bone with WA builds????
@JimmyF: Why on earth are you hell bent into thinking/wishing WA dwelling owners are all mindless, careless or stupid to build a new crappy house???
LOL just stating the facts…… No wall insulation, single glazing as standard…. black roofs, sounds pretty mindless, careless and stupid to build in that sort of climate!
Did you witness "hundreds" of builds?
Yes I have.
Are you only comparing cheap, basic, money struggling builds?
It doesn't really matter how much money they have or don't have, we are talking about what being built by most people.
Your generalization of WA builds doesn't pass the pub test.
LOL WA pubs must be special too, but we'll save that for another thread.
So in your pub test, you still haven't proved me wrong about the bulk of WA houses lack basic insulation levels in the walls or decent windows that don't leak and have more than one pane of glass.
How about those eaves? Yeah MIA too on most houses.
Why your bone with WA builds????
I know it's hard to follow….. But the OP is from WA and that was the question. Hence the statements about WA houses.
@JimmyF: You keep missing the proverbial elephant in the room … where in WA ????
WA is several times bigger than VIC (google it for a link).
Asseting "houses in WA" are bad is pointless unless you specify where and when and under what parameters.
Is it a new dump in suburban Northbridge? Or is an architecht design house in Nedlands????
Hence the statements about WA houses.
LOL, and if from ACT you'll also have a bone?
Are you Mister Meriton himself??????
You keep missing the proverbial elephant in the room … where in WA ????
WA is several times bigger than VIC (google it for a link).
You might want to check your elephants out, as WA is mostly a state of dirt without people.
But lets go the biggest area… PERTH.
Are you Mister Meriton himself??????
LOL Love it when people get caught out but can't admit they missed this post was all about WA houses and try to spin it.
Love it when people get caught out
Right, like you witnessing "hundreds" of builds in WA and VIC. Pull the other leg Pinocchio.
as WA is mostly a state of dirt without people.
Right. So it is a "I hate WA" syndrome then. Not just houses, now most is dirt … Right.
No wonder VIC re-elected Dan …
Right. So it is a "I hate WA" syndrome then. Not just houses, now most is dirt … Right.
Nothing to do with hating WA. You're the cry baby who doesn't like it when someone calls out the crap builds, but come on now lets not kid yourself if you think WA isn't a state full of dirt, it's certainly not full of people like the east states are!
@JimmyF: LOL, the cry baby I hear is having a tantrum about ALL houses in WA …
it's certainly not full of people like the east states are!
Mmmm … so full of people is good now? Like China? Like India? Overcrowded is good now?
Haven't been in VIC for ages … but did Dan Andrews took all the dirt as well?
Is it on water now?
Hope is not sinking!!!!! …
LOL, the cry baby I hear is having a tantrum about ALL houses in WA …
That would be you, you're the one taking issue with my statements.
Mmmm … so full of people is good now? Like China? Like India? Overcrowded is good now?
Grow up, a single east city has more people in it than the entire WA put together. So yeah a state full of empty dirt.
Haven't been in VIC for ages
It shows… You can always tell the people who are 20 years behind the curve.
@JimmyF: And all this pointless, wandering arguing started when the OP asked about Whirly Birds …
No wonder humanity cannot have good things peace.
And all this pointless, wandering arguing started when the OP asked about Whirly Birds …
No, all this pointless dribble started because you took offense to me saying west/east houses are like chalk and cheese and WA doesn't do wall insulation.
Ridiculous. Few WA homes would lack ceiling insulation, and it has long been a legal requirement for new homes.
LOL what is Ridiculous is thinking that ceiling insulation is….. insulating a house well!
Sure WA does ceiling insulation but that is it….. My statement of 'don't do insulation' is relating to the rest of the house. nothing in the walls, single glazing, no eaves, tiled roof. Its a shit show of a build based on the climate!
nothing in the walls, single glazing
Insulation in the walls, and double glazing, are mostly to keep heat in. Much of Australia has the opposite problem - keeping heat out. Neither wall insulation nor double glazing have any effect when you keep the windows open for cooling.
If you run an air conditioner in the warmer parts of the country, then yes, wall insulation and double glazing would have an advantage. But you get more bang-for-buck by installing solar panels on your roof, to reduce the electricity bill of your air conditioner. And during winter, when we have no heating/cooling costs, the solar panels are a net benefit for the environment.
Insulation in the walls, and double glazing, are mostly to keep heat in
Yeah the 1980s called and wanted its FUD back.
Much of Australia has the opposite problem - keeping heat out
Fun fact, the best way to keep heat out is adding Insulation in the walls, and double glazing!
Insulation doesn't keep heat 'in', it stops heat transfer. So if its 'warm' inside, it stops the warm escaping as you put it, but if its cool inside, it also stops the cool escaping or the heat coming into the house.
But you get more bang-for-buck by installing solar panels on your roof, to reduce the electricity bill of your air conditioner
A better bang for your buck is to insulate well, so you don't even need heating/cooling. Solar is great but during winter when its raining and cloudy, not so great.
@JimmyF: You obviously haven't looked at the price of retrofitting a house with wall insulation, It's an order of magnitude more expensive that putting solar on the roof.
@Russ: Oh yes change the narrative to meet your point, I know reading can be hard…. But we are talking about new builds in WA, so there is no retrofitting.
But we are talking about new builds in WA
Are we? Bargaino mentioned only roof insulation, and OP didn't say they're building a house, sounds like they already have a house and want to add something.
Are we? Bargaino mentioned only roof insulation
Cast your eyes up then. Bargaino was replying to my message, in which I was replying to a message that said "combine them with proper insulation", which as I was saying, WA houses do not have or ever had. Then you chipped in…..
I know, reading it hard. Thanks for playing.
@JimmyF: And straight under that comment, the OP says his house doesn't have wall insulation.
Who's having trouble reading now?
And straight under that comment, the OP says his house doesn't have wall insulation.
Correct, but that wasn't what bargaino was replying to now was it.
Who's having trouble reading now?
Just you. Might want to work out how the threading works in the future ;)
@JimmyF: You still haven't responded to my statement "Neither wall insulation nor double glazing have any effect when you keep the windows open for cooling."
You still haven't responded to my statement "Neither wall insulation nor double glazing have any effect when you keep the windows open for cooling."
Change the narrative yet again. Funny you haven't responded to a lot of my statements either…. But I did cover this one. Remember this?
A better bang for your buck is to insulate well, so you don't even need heating/cooling
So why do you need to have the windows open if the place is insulated well?
So why do you need to have the windows open if the place is insulated well?
Because insulation only reduces heat flow, it doesn't stop it. You'll still have heat coming in through the ceiling, so if you insulate the walls and double glaze the windows, and keep all the windows closed, that heat has nowhere to go. Your internal house temperature will go up, higher than the temperature of the outside air. The temperature will stabilise between the temperature of the outside air and the temperature inside your roof space, which is plenty hot.
Providing ventilation - opening the window - will bring the house's internal temperature down, closer to the outside air temperature.
A real-world example is demountable buildings, the sort that are shipping-container size. These have both roof and wall insulation, and I can assure you their inside temperature is significantly higher than ambient when you open one up in the middle of the day. They usually have awnings and external window shades fitted, so the heat isn't caused by light coming in through the windows.
You'll still have heat coming in through the ceiling
You still have insulation in the ceiling…
Providing ventilation - opening the window - will bring the house's internal temperature down, closer to the outside air temperature.
LOL it won't bring the temp down at all if its 40c outside and only 25c inside…. or 25c inside and 5c outside, will make the place cold.
Providing ventilation
HRV/ERV will solve that issue without opening a window.
Insulation in the walls, and double glazing, are mostly to keep heat in.
If you have shade, they are just as good per degree heat difference, at keeping heat out.
But the average temperature in Perth in summer is only 25C, which is quite comfortable with our humidity level.
So insulation typically just needs to keep out the afternoon peak heat. (Assuming shade! No west-facing windows please.)
Thermal mass (e.g. slab and double brick) helps a lot too, in this case.
Compare to Northern Europe, where the average temp in winter can be 5C, or even sub-zero for extended periods. That is 3 to 4 times as much heat transfer to room temp, which is why they have double glazing. If Perth summers were as far from room temp as European winters are, we'd all be dead.
This may have been true in the past but is very outdated.
No new builds happen in WA without wall and ceiling insulation minumum.
Most also have upgraded glazing, passive solar design components as well.
Many also have roof insulation about the ceiling insulation.
(I work for the largest builder in WA)
Thanks for the clarification.
Quite a few wasted words above yours, it seems.
Jimmy seems to have missed your post, and thus continues with his own version of FUD.
If only mythbusters tested them, might have been a boring one though
.
I read a review years ago. It panned them. Can't recall where.Google should find heaps saying the same thing
I currently have 2 whirlybirds on my colorbond roof in Brisbane, and I'm about to add a solar roof ventilator to the mix. The solar roof ventilator is supposed to be up to 10 times more efficient than a standard whirlybird, and doesn't need wind for it to work.
I've got two standard whirlybirds and two solar roof vents. I originally had one whirlybird and when I had a second added, I noticed no difference. When I had the two solar roof vents added, my wife, who really doesn't care or pay attention to these things, did remark that the house felt cooler, after they had been installed for a week or two. Also in Brisbane.
We installed a solarstar ventilator on the back half of our hotbox Queenslander and it made a HUGE difference. Highly recommend!
I think they are worth it. We have three on our roof for more than 10 years. Helps to cool down the house quicker after the sun has gone down. Not really noticeable during the day. Before, the house would stay hot for many hours in the evening, so needed to use the a/c longer. After installation, in summer, after sunset and we have a cool breeze, the house cools down in a matter of minutes. I suppose it might have the opposite effect during winter.
Also helps to remove moisture in the roof as our bathroom exhaust fan vents into the roof space.
They're cheap which makes them appealing, but a powered fan will move significantly more air at times of your choosing.
Whirlybirds = useless. They are a hot placebo, with moving parts. If you have a corrugated roof get E-Vents (on your ridge-cap plus lower based inlets. Google them. They are made in your state.
Whirlys only work if the wind is blowing - that is how it can expel warm air from the roof space. In Perth on a hot summers day there is hardly any wind until the late afternoon. I have seen electrically powered whirlbirds that activate when the roof space reaches a certain temperature - the electricity used to run these is negligible. As someone else has pointed out above some are solar powered. Oh and to make this system even more effective, make sure you have eaves vents which means even more air can flow into the roof and cool it down.
Building solar passive is not rocket science, but morons prefer to be sheep and follow the flock and build summer ovens/winter fridges.
Black rooves, FFS. Dumbfkry
Black rooves, FFS.
So true. Sadly, most people don't realise what a bad idea that is. I'm sure there's probably a heap of insulation under those rooves, but it raises the air temperature of the entire suburb.
City councils don't help either. Unless the rules have changed in the last decade, Brisbane City Council won't let you have a light-coloured roof,and you can only fit a silver-colour tin roof if you're replacing an existing silver-colour tin roof.
Australia should swap QLD for Bali
Not sure what Brisbane City Council you're talking about - I couldn't find any reference to BCC not allowing light coloured roofs so I went hunting for a fairly new development in the BCC area and found this for you (2015-2017 development). Lots of white and light coloured roofs there…
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cygnet+St,+Fitzgibbon+QLD+…
Here's an even newer development - 2019-2022.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Superior+Parade,+Bridgeman…
Interesting, perhaps the rules have changed, or perhaps the city council aren't enforcing their own rules.
About a decade ago, I needed to get many of my very old tiles repaired/replaced (some cracked and broken, and the ridge-cap tiles were slipping), and I asked the repair people about getting a complete replacement with white tiles. They told me "not possible, council don't allow it". I rang council to confirm, and they did confirm it, saying "you can't replace a dark-colour roof with a light-colour roof, it might reflect too much light into adjacent properties".
Or perhaps, because it's a new development, the people moving in can't complain about next-door's roof, as it was already that colour when they bought their property. It's not a change of colour, like my request was.
Living next to a white Colorbond roof - no thanks. There should be a regulation to make them matt. Even my blinds are not enough to stop that giant mirror.
I'd rather live under a smart light coloured corrugated roof, than display the black dunce cap heat magnet version, for all the world to see, though.
Consider getting a Cardiffair-type fan, that sucks air from your living space and pushes it into the roof space. They fit vents in the eaves as well, so the air has somewhere to exit the roof.
This has two advantages: when you get home, it takes maybe five minutes to replace all your interior air with outside air, which is significantly cooler if your house has been closed up all day. And at the same time, it flushes all the hot air out of the roof. You have to open a couple of windows before turning the fan on
I run one in summer in Brisbane, and it cools the house within about five minutes when I get home in the afternoon.
They do have a disadvantage though: your flyscreens will gradually clog up with "fluff" (fibers) that are normally in the outside air in low concentrations. Your flyscreen essentially acts as a filter that catches all those fibers, so about once a year you'll have to take your flyscreens out and scrub them with a brush and detergent. Also note that if your flyscreens are part of your security grilles, they're much harder to remove.
What roof do you have? If it's Colorbond, get the venturi type that go on the ridge cap.
If it's tiled, I don't know if Whirlybirds are really that effective (I think you need quite a few).
Clay tiles aren't that well sealed anyway, concrete tiles are a bit more uniform and seal a little better.
The couple of people I've known install them (in Qld) swear by them.
as mentioned in the last thread on these, neighbour installed at his place - made a massive difference.
Random statement - i got solar installed a few months back, i reckon my house is not getting as hot as it used to. Might all be in my head though.
We built 5 years ago in an arid zone and had 2 as a part of the build (double glazed windows and sliding doors).
1 year in and we noticed wet patches in 2 of the bedroom ceilings and when I went up and checked, water was dripping off beams in the roof and insulation under the Colorbond and I thought a water pipe had busted.
Plumber came out and it turned out to be an extreme case of condensation in the colder months, from the sun only shining directly on one side of the roof (long ranch style home).
Building company came out and none of them had ever seen anything like it.
They put in 2 more whirly birds and eaves vents at each end of the house and not only did it stop the condensation, but the air it draws through the roof and out of the whirly birds has significantly cooled the house on hot days.
We have evaporative cooling and use it way less ever since.
Our previous property was also ranch style with a Colorbond roof and we added 3 after a couple of years in from that build and the house was definitely cooler.
I'm guessing you're in Sydney or Melbourne? If you are, I'm surprised they didn't require sarking to manage this very issue (condensation collects on the sarking and runs off into the gutters).
Yes, we have sarking. Sorry that I did not explain it properly the first time. Northern Vic.
https://www.roofandrender.com.au/the-advantages-and-disadvan…