In an Accident While Completing a 3 Point Turn

NoBucks on 08/11/2023 - 11:15
Last edited 08/11/2023 - 14:38 by 1 other user

Update: Reading all comments I am convinced it was my fault. Maybe I am wrong giving way and waiting for people to complete their turns :)

Here is the video
https://www.veed.io/view/c0bc6425-b7e3-4700-8016-abe3c44819b…

Hi all, just need opinion regarding an accident I was involved in.

I was coming out of a parking bay and taking a 3 point turn. When I started to pull out from the bay there were no vehicles on the road. When I was doing the last 3rd turn of the 3 point, that is moving into the lane after having pulled out, backed up and making the final turn forward, then a car came from behind me and hit me on the left of the vehicle. The driver initially tried to run away but when I followed him he stopped. We exchanged details (his licence had a condition "B" which I discovered meant that he had been previously convicted of drink driving). But no police were involved in the incident so not sure if he was or not under influence.

We are with the same insurer, and now the insurance tells me that I was my fault. I have dash cam footage which clearly shows that there are no vehicles on the road when I started my turn but he showed up from behind when I was completing my turn, did not give way and tried to pass me while I was making my final turn. The insurer says as the other driver was already "established" in the lane I should given way. Is this right?

I checked NSW road handbook it does not mention about right of way or who should be giving way. Appreciate if I can get some opinion here.

Thanks for reading.

Automotive

Comments

  • Muzeeb on 08/11/2023 - 11:23
    +10

    What were the road lane markings in the area?

    Technically you are meant to give way to all other cars and pedestrians.

    • DashCam AKA Rolts on 08/11/2023 - 11:42
      +12

      Need an MS Paint diagram.

      • Muzeeb on 08/11/2023 - 11:43
        +4

        Then it would make more sense. Cheers

        • HeWhoKnows on 10/11/2023 - 15:22
          -4

          Yes the attached video shows nothing of concern.

    • geekcohen on 12/11/2023 - 07:47

      What were the road lane markings in the area?

      Looks like no lines.

      • Muzeeb on 12/11/2023 - 08:52
        +1

        The video was added 3 hours after the initial post.

  • pegaxs on 08/11/2023 - 11:25
    +30

    You're at fault. Uturns driver needs to give way to all other road users.

    That being said, who knows. No details of the road. No MS Paint drawing. No dash cam footage posted…

    it does not mention about right of way

    Oh, really?? No mention, huh…

    And I am pretty sure that condition B on a NSW drivers license is for automatic truck transmissions. Z is for drink driving.

    • Muzeeb on 08/11/2023 - 11:42

      Correct. sauce source

    • Slinky0111 on 08/11/2023 - 12:50
      +1

      Came here to say this. Automatic truck unless synchromesh gear box with manual license

    • johnno07 on 11/11/2023 - 00:10
      +4

      You'd think OP would understand u-turning after he was literally the other driver in this situation last year

    • kaleidoscope on 12/11/2023 - 09:28

      The other driver was sure an impatient a$$hat, but unfortunately you’re fault not giving way. For a 3 point turn you have to give way for vehicles at each segment of it.

  • Gdsamp on 08/11/2023 - 11:25
    +4

    Need MS Paint diagram (or the footage) to confirm you are at fault

  • HarryBolt68 on 08/11/2023 - 11:29
    +1

    Sounds like you dun goofed. If visibility was so poor that a car could have been out of sight when you started the turn, yet close enough to be unable to avoid hitting you after you entered his lane, it's probably not a wise spot to pull a 3 point turn.

    Sharing the dash cam footage may offer some mitigations.

  • John Kimble on 08/11/2023 - 11:30
    +8

    his licence had a condition "B" which I discovered meant that he had been previously convicted of drink driving

    Objection, Your Honour. Relevance?

    • pegaxs on 08/11/2023 - 11:37

      And added to that, I'm pretty sure it's the wrong code…

    • RTX9090Ti on 10/11/2023 - 15:27

      nah condition "B" is for "Breaking Bad"

      • Euphemistic on 10/11/2023 - 20:00
        +6

        I think you’ll find it’s Braking Bad.

  • plmko on 08/11/2023 - 11:43
    +1

    Insurer isn't correct. But you dont provide enough detail so no one can tell otherwise.

  • mrkorrupt on 08/11/2023 - 11:51
    +3

    dashcam footage please

  • Hellfire on 08/11/2023 - 11:51
    +1

    In general the insurer is correct but there are specific instances that you may still not be at fault. For example, if you were stationary then the other car has an obligation to not hit you.

    Maybe post the dash cam footage so we can better see what happened.

    • will05 on 08/11/2023 - 12:41

      In general the insurer is correct - I TOTALLY disagre becuase they just passing the information received by other party.
      they werent present at the scene at all.

      • Hellfire on 08/11/2023 - 13:55
        +2

        From the information provided the OP is at fault and the insurer is correct. If OP can provide additional information it might be help their case.

  • Drakesy on 08/11/2023 - 11:51
    +3

    dashcam plz kthnx

  • ThithLord on 08/11/2023 - 11:56
    +1

    You're completely at fault until I see the DC footage

  • bobbified on 08/11/2023 - 11:58
    +5

    When I started to pull out from the bay there were no vehicles on the road.

    Funny that every driver that's caused a collision has claimed something like this.

  • will05 on 08/11/2023 - 12:34

    sorry for the situation you in. its difficult to deal when people don't admit mistakes.
    I think you should ask insurance to provide things in writing inc. diagram etc. Of course they have something else to say what you been describing because they received first hand information by other party. if its not big damage try to settle outside without insurance because they list you both anyway.

  • azero on 08/11/2023 - 13:47

    Next time please reverse in if it is a 90 degree parking bay.

    • John Kimble on 08/11/2023 - 13:55
      -2

      Why? I find reversing out is easier as I have a reversing camera. Trying to creep out forwards blind sometimes (because of tall SUVs/vans/Ute's in the adjacent spots) is more sketchy.

      • azero on 08/11/2023 - 15:36
        +2

        how wide is the fov of the reverse camera ?

        Chances are there will be cars that you won't see in the cam. You will do a 3 point turn to get back on the road like the OP and end up being in an accident.

        • John Kimble on 08/11/2023 - 15:47

          No idea. It would be better than nothing, which would be what it would be if I was facing forward…

      • lgacb08 on 10/11/2023 - 01:29
        -1

        Bad idea, reverse in is always better because you'll be in control of traffic when you do it, i.e. being able to block traffic and have total view of who's within the perimeter (you can even block vehicle behind you attempting to steal your spot if doing it right). Reversing out you'll be at the mercy of the 2 van next to you blocking your fov, non-stop incoming pedestrian, shopping trolley and vehicle traffic. And when driving out, because of inherent narrow driveaway around shopping centre you'll almost finding yourself having to make several turns to fix your position nicely, unless you have two empty bay at your disposal.

  • dassaur on 08/11/2023 - 13:57
    +14

    As someone with a condition B licence - it's got to do with driving a heavy vehicle… it means you can only drive syncromesh or automatic trans heavy vehicles.
    Nothing to do with prior convictions or drink driving.

  • jv on 08/11/2023 - 14:01
    +5

    U turns must always give way…

  • localhost on 08/11/2023 - 14:05
    +1

    Well, see what OP wrote: When I started to pull out from the bay there were no vehicles on the road.
    What diagram, what footage?

  • Muzeeb on 08/11/2023 - 14:30

    @NoBucks

    You've been back to visit several times here. Any answers or further information to share?

    • NoBucks on 08/11/2023 - 14:41
      +1

      Stalking me :) ? unfortunately with Optus and struggling to get online, video uploaded

  • brendanm on 08/11/2023 - 14:48
    +16

    Lol you drove into the side of a vehicle.

    • Muzeeb on 08/11/2023 - 15:00
      +2

      I was struggling with the word picture

      then a car came from behind me and hit me on the left

      After watching the video I now know why.

      • RTX9090Ti on 10/11/2023 - 15:30
        +5

        Corrected:

        then a car came from behind left of me and I hit it me on the left right

  • samfisher5986 on 08/11/2023 - 15:07
    +39

    At least in my personal opinion, you aren't the main person at fault.

    You had already completed half of your turn and you didn't cause any accidents and you were then in the middle of the road and everyone had enough time to see you and stop. When you went to complete your turn, a car drove in front of your car.

    In my opinion the other car needed to stop when it identified you in the middle of the road. They made the false assumption that you were sideways in the middle of the road while… parked?

    I think you still might have some responsiblity as I feel like you had a moment to stop when the car drove past you however.

    For those that disagree, does this essentially mean that if you see a car doing a maneuver, you are allowed to aggressively drive around them because you are driving straight? The answer is no you can't do that.

    • NoBucks on 08/11/2023 - 15:10
      +4

      Thanks hope the insurance see it this way

    • CodeXD on 08/11/2023 - 15:14
      +9

      I agree with this.

      The video makes it clear that you started to execute the 3-point turn when it was safe to do so, and from the way you got hit, you are "established in the lane" ahead of the driver that hit you.

    • Ramrunner on 09/11/2023 - 14:09
      +20

      Although it LOOKS as if the 4WD is trying to rush through before you commence part 3 of your 3 point turn and that I believe is a stupid thing to do and he/she/they should have stopped, it also looks as though you were not paying attention at all to the left of your vehicle when you commenced part 3 and just drove straight into him/her/them.

      It really is like you had tunnel vision sorry to say.

      Look, however this winds up and I'm not saying your primarilty at fault, but drivers, please, this kind of thing happens all the time, just try to anticipate other drivers stupidity.

      If someone is slowing down heavily in the right hand lane with no traffic around them on a fast road, believe me, there is a likeliness they're about to jump 3 lanes across your bonnet because they're about to miss their exit ramp.

      Even though people at a crossroad who need to turn left in your lane after you pass, watch them all the time because it is rare but possible they'll have a brainfart and enter your lane just BEFORE you get to the junction.

      These examples happen to me on a monthly (almost weekly) basis.

      We'd have so many less incidents if people watched their mirrors and what's going on around them (being aware). Even anticipating other drivers.

      I'm in WA and it's become atrocious over the last decade. Not sure if it's like this everywhere but I fear for inexperienced drivers having to navigate all this these days. Hard to teach my L plate son how to keep an eye on everything but he is doing a very good job.

      • miicah on 10/11/2023 - 12:35
        +4

        there is a likeliness they're about to jump 3 lanes across your bonnet because they're about to miss their exit ramp.

        Yeah but if you have a dashcam it's your civic duty to completely ignore this and drive straight into them so you have some sweet footage for the DCA YouTube channel.

      • ankor on 10/11/2023 - 16:34

        If you teach the kid how to ride a motorbike properly, then a lot of the stuff about driving a car is a lot easier cos they already know to have the head on a swivel.

        • Ramrunner on 13/11/2023 - 10:13

          I fully agree with you 100%

          But I'm not sure whether you're in WA and watching the news, there's no way on god's green earth my kids are riding motorbikes while I have some control over their choices.

          I would have felt different a decade or two ago, but the numpties and ignorance on the road (the OP post is just a small example) the risk is just too high. I trust my kids, just can't trust the other drivers any more I'm afraid.

          • ankor on 17/11/2023 - 07:05
            +1

            @Ramrunner: Sorry, not in WA but in Qld. I’m also in Brisbane so traffic is bad but ppl aren’t crazy bad like in Sydney or confusing, like the tram situation in Melbourne.

    • ThePeterGriffin on 10/11/2023 - 00:14
      +2

      Completely agree with you on this and don’t see OPs fault here. The lane seems unmarked lane and pretty small too for 2 cars to pass at a single time especially when op was taking a turn. If it were I would’ve given way to the OP and so should have the other driver.

    • Assburg on 10/11/2023 - 00:14
      +4

      Yeah strong concur, at least 50/50 responsibility - failure in duty of care to other road users on both parties.

    • Eeples on 17/11/2023 - 02:19

      I disagree.

      The maneuver has 3 parts and you ought to check if it’s clear and give way all 3 times. Not just at the start of a 3 point turn.

      However, I think the blame is shared.

  • foxmulder on 08/11/2023 - 15:32
    +3

    The road seem very narrow for you to do 3 point turns. The other lane also have cars. I only do it when both sides are free of cars.

    • samfisher5986 on 08/11/2023 - 15:35
      +2

      There is no road rule that says a u turn or 3 point turn requires a certain size road.

      There is a road rule that requires you to give way another vehicle in your lane, even if its sideways.

      • Euphemistic on 09/11/2023 - 08:42
        +16

        There may not be a rule, but doesn’t mean it’s not a stupid place to do a 3 point turn.

  • Hellfire on 08/11/2023 - 15:39
    +6

    Driving into the side of the other vehicle doesn't bode well for a favorable outcome. Why didn't you just wait at that point when the other car was clearly in front of you?

  • Kremleen on 08/11/2023 - 16:28
    +13

    At every stage of the 3-point turn, you need to give way to incoming or established vehicles on the road. It doesn't matter if the prado was not present when you first took your turn.

    I watched the video before reading the post and it's funny how the narrative changed when the at-fault party tried to put the blame on the other party.

    hit me on the left of the vehicle

    You hit the prado

    tried to run away

    Video showed prado came to a stop and tried to pull over

    I discovered meant that he had been previously convicted of drink driving

    Citation needed?

    From another comment,

    does this essentially mean that if you see a car doing a maneuver, you are allowed to aggressively drive around them because you are driving straight? The answer is no you can't do that

    Why yes, you can actually do that. U-turn must give way.

      • Kremleen on 09/11/2023 - 09:30
        +4

        Umm, maybe you could tell that to OP's insurance company.

      • CocaKoala on 11/11/2023 - 09:20

        How TF do people like you get a driving licence when not knowing basic road rules?!

    • Muzeeb on 08/11/2023 - 16:33
      +1

      I'm guessing OP was focused on the oncoming Volvo and in an attempt to get out of the Volvo's lane post-haste they didn't even see the Prado until it hit them they drove into the side of it.

    • billy72 on 08/11/2023 - 17:48
      +1

      that's why I often don't trust OP's story until there is footage video.

  • CurlCurl on 08/11/2023 - 16:48
    +3

    What does condition B mean on NSW licence?
    A heavy vehicle licence with a condition “B” restricts the licence holder to driving heavy vehicles fitted with automatic or synchromesh gearboxes only. The licence holder is prohibited from driving vehicles with a non-synchromesh gearbox (also referred to as a Crash box).

    H on a drivers licence is for driving a tracked vehicle.

    https://www.totaldriving.net/other/h-tracked-vehicle-trainin…

  • 82norm on 09/11/2023 - 07:56
    +1

    Irrespective of the rules about giving way to oncoming traffic when doing a u-turn, particularly when a 3 point turn is needed, is never concede more gap when reversing than necessary. Prevents impatient fwits trying to sneak thru. They can wait, and if they want to creep up closer, they then have to wait longer.

    • brendanm on 09/11/2023 - 09:40
      +17

      Impatient fwits? Like the guy doing a U turn in a narrow street, when they could have carried on and turned around at a roundabout, taken a side street, used an intersection, used a driveway etc etc.

    • CocaKoala on 11/11/2023 - 09:22
      +2

      impatient fwits trying to sneak thru.

      Would these be the same people blocked and inconvenienced by the idiotic fwit that decided to perform an U turn in a narrow street?

  • Myone888 on 09/11/2023 - 08:35

    Whoever is doing a U turn must give way to oncoming cars. Should be doing u turns on small narrow busy roads!

  • Euphemistic on 09/11/2023 - 08:40
    +4

    You should not be doing a u turn in that situation. Move further up the road and turn where you aren’t opposite parked cars.

  • jhlook on 09/11/2023 - 08:46
    +6

    The video looks like you drove forward into their car as they drove past unfortunately.

    • Dreamcast on 10/11/2023 - 08:36
      +9

      Agreed, but seriously, that Prado driver is a drop kick. How hard is it for people to wait these days, ffs.

      • GregRust on 10/11/2023 - 09:02
        +3

        Classic Prado-driver move, though.

      • jhlook on 10/11/2023 - 09:16
        +1

        Totally agree, the prado could have have waited but didn’t so it makes it the drivers fault for not looking again to the left before driving

  • Rob-4x4 on 09/11/2023 - 09:11
    +4

    I have had similar unfortunate experience when backing out of a car park and getting nailed by a clown than sped in from my blind side (I don't have 360 degree vision and can't swivel my head multiple times a second ). When started reversing there was no one in site and the clown could have easily avoided it or even hit the horn but they preferred to deliberately drive into me as they could clearly see what was going on and I was travelling vey slowly. So unfortunately my fault.. but fortunately only minimal damaged that I buffed out.
    That was many years ago and said clown has a show on sky after dark……

  • pr0o on 09/11/2023 - 14:30

    What dashcam do you use? I am thinking of buying one to capture 1K video of my driving.

  • Brick Tamland on 09/11/2023 - 16:59
    +7

    Thats a tough one. Technically you drove into that car but that manoeuvre by the Landcruiser is wild. That Landcruiser should have had some patience and just waited for you to finish.

    • nwa on 10/11/2023 - 08:06
      +3

      The OP could have had some patience and curtsey to make sure the road is clear before doing a 3 point turn. However not enough information is given if this was the case.

      We don't know if they could see the LandCruiser coming, from how far, road structure, e.g. is there a corner and did they come from a turn, or they came from parked into the lane. Also their speed, were they slow which then OP did manoeuvre based on that but then sped up.

      This is one of those cases where the OP video won't tell you everything, you probably need the LandCruiser video or another vehicle dashcam to make a judgement.

      • Brick Tamland on 10/11/2023 - 08:09
        +6

        We can do what-ifs until the cows come home but based on the footage I'd say the Landcruiser should have just waited no matter if OP was in the right or wrong.

  • jacross on 09/11/2023 - 20:22

    I think section 87 of the Road Rules 2014 (NSW) is most relevant to, this, situation.

    [87 Giving way when moving from a side of a road or a median strip parking area
    (1) A driver entering a marked lane, or a line of traffic, from the far left or right side of a
    road must give way to any vehicle travelling in the lane or line of traffic.]

    This probably conflicts with common expected practise in this situation which is when someone pulls out like this you stop, roll your eyes a bit, and wait for them to finish.

  • askbargain on 09/11/2023 - 21:57

    Looks like taxi/uber driving haha

  • ankor on 09/11/2023 - 22:29
    +4

    If i were the insurer I’d be taking money from both insureds.

    • nwa on 10/11/2023 - 08:10

      True as it's same insurer they have to fix regardless so could have taken excess from both parties. Maybe the LandCruiser has a dashcam that makes them look right or had a good argument as to why not at fault.

    • ripesashimi on 10/11/2023 - 09:50

      Then its just going around isnt it.

      Both pay excess to make claims. NAF's insurer then chases AF's insurer for repair and cost including the NAF's excess, but there is only one insurer so …. they would chase themselves? Eventually they pay all repairs, why bother with apportioning liability?

      • ankor on 10/11/2023 - 10:49

        You’d still have to act as though you are not the insurer for both, even when you are the insurer for both. That’s just how you’re supposed to do things.

        In most instances, the crash and bash insurers are pretty good and quick at negotiating with each other to resolve things.

        It’s only those accident free on loan hire car companies that act like pork chops.

  • fredk1000 on 09/11/2023 - 22:40
    +1

    When you started that manoeuvre at the beginning of the video, the car was not even there, not sure where that came from so quick (but going slow).
    Though that car should of gave way/waited to avoid an accident.
    Reminds me once I was driving out of a car park turning right into a multi lane road, when I looked left, I did not see a car, I drove into the right lane, intention was to go into the left lane, then a car buzzed passed in the left lane out of nowhere at about 60-80km/h, if I turned directly into the left lane, it would of been a really bad accident.
    I saw that car flashed passed me as well as my life.

  • prinsenhof on 09/11/2023 - 22:56
    +8

    Prado driver should be charged with negligent driving.

    No one would expect some clown to squeeze through that gap when the next predictable move you make is to roll forward.

    • Brick Tamland on 10/11/2023 - 08:12
      +3

      Yeah, it was some aggressive driving by the Land Cruiser. Some patience and defensive driving would have avoided that incident

    • ripesashimi on 10/11/2023 - 09:57
      +1

      Problem is before making the next predictable move, the third turn, the onus is also on OP's to check for incoming vehicle too before entering that lane.

    • gromit on 10/11/2023 - 10:52
      +1

      Agree, but you have an obligation to look left to check some twat isn't doing something unpredictable when doing a 3 point turn. If anything it is a shared fault.

  • Homr on 09/11/2023 - 23:57
    +8

    man OP, why would you do a 3-point turn in that situation. There looks like a round-about just straight up the road aswell

  • Widget on 10/11/2023 - 03:53
    +3

    Why would the 4wd drive through? It's clear the car was making a 3-point turn.

  • Miss B on 10/11/2023 - 07:26
    +9

    Probably not a great idea for them to go past. Probably not a great idea to do a 3 point turn with your eyes closed.

    https://www.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-08/guide-to-…

    "During the 3-point turn you must check left and right for traffic before each movement."

    • ozfool on 11/11/2023 - 11:23
      +1

      Haha, the prado is a knob, but I'm wondering which direction OPs eyes were pointing if it wasn't left or forward. Dude drove straight into them.

      Two idiots here failed to account for other people being idiots.

  • Aust on 10/11/2023 - 08:55
    +2

    How selfish is that Prado driver, mind you the OP should have established all the Numpty Prado drivers were not to their left when moving off.

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