I'm reading this article and it kinda gets me worried a bit. I know the article is about luxury properties in Toorak, but surely there will be other Chinese buyers snapping up property in different areas.
Currently a renter and it feels like buying my first property will be out of reach for a long time.
https://www.news.com.au/finance/real-estate/melbourne-vic/nu…
Blame the Labor Govt under KRudd for opening up the doors to Chinese investors.
The Libs whilst in power for almost 10 years didn't change this so they get a slap on the face as well.
Blame the Labor Govt under KRudd for opening up the doors to Chinese investors.
funny thing is Albo and the ALP are making it even worst with an additional 4million people!
not funny at all.
AND
Without any REAL conditions
not funny at all.
AND
Without any REAL conditions
Australians voted for a unqualified ALP/Green government without a plan we're getting what we deserve
@Trying2SaveABuck: ALP got a lower primary vote than the LIBs
So hardly a mandate which Arrogant Albanese seems to take.
ALP won by default by going to bed with The Greens
And now we have the worst government in Australia's history.
Scomo's previous Liberal government now shines in comparison
ALP got a lower primary vote than the LIBs
Um what?
You do realise it's a Coalition if the libs ever get in, as in Nationals and Liberals have to team up because neither have a big enough primary vote?
ALP won by default by going to bed with The Greens
ALP are governing in their own right?
@Drakesy: Not really.
Labor need both the Greens and David Polcock in the Senate to pass legislation.
Without a majority in the senate almost nothing gets through without bypartisan support.
So Labor and the Greens is practically a Coalition.
They just play games to make it look it look like they are independent parties.
Next election Greens will take another seat or 2 from Labor and then Labor will be in minority
The Greens are unfortunately getting more and more control
The Greens are unfortunately getting more and more control
Which is pretty much what happens when the wealth divide grows too much and people start to feel hard done by, then back to more socialist policies we go.
The more people feel frozen out of the market the more people are going to favour the far left and right (to some extent to reduce immigration).
@Drakesy: partly, it is also a sign of how bad our education system has gotten that many of the younger generation that vote for them don't realise how insanely impractical and financially disastrous most of the greens policies are. But hard to blame them when our 2 major parties are so utterly bankrupt when it comes to morals and corruption.
ALP got a lower primary vote than the LIBs
So hardly a mandate which Arrogant Albanese seems to take.
ALP won by default by going to bed with The Greens
And now we have the worst government in Australia's history.
Scomo's previous Liberal government now shines in comparison
i somewhat agree with everything you have written here the only thing i would say is the Greens and ALP are essentially in a coalition by everything bar branding. - 70-80% of there policies now match it is why we have such a dysfunctional ALP government - the Greens have a short term wrapped view on politics and thus 'young, lazy and generally stupid people' with no life experience vote for them. Young people hear things like 'Rent Freezes' and 'stop coal' but fail to understand these band aid policies make issues worse in the long run not better…
The Green preference has a profound impact on ALP ability to hold power they essentially 'steer' the ship in regards to which way the government goes - this is why the LNP is the 'better' of the two majors for all their issues you are buying what you get on the label.
However, we had 9 years of 'decent' government from the LNP so there is a generation of voters who 'believe' the lie that more socialism is good for them. The voted for this government and id say in everyway ALP/Greens has made things for them - so i say they're getting exactly what they deserve
The young generation are realizing the Grass is not Greener on the ALP/Greens side - i wish ALP would be the party they 'once' where in regards to putting working people, healthcare and education first but i doubt we will ever see that whilst they team up with the woke extremist that are the Greens
However, we had 9 years of 'decent' government from the LNP
I'd use decent very loosely, we were diving head first into a recession pre-covid due to poor economic management, they then pumped $850 billion into the economy and now have left the ALP to clean up the inflationary bomb. The liberals were very effective marketers who didn't actually carry out what they were spruiking.
@Drakesy: We're in a per capita recession right now and the current government only solution is to bring people here and make the matter worse?
Id rather he on a economic knife edge than in an economic toilet
For the record I dont think the LNP are great but they're better then the ALP Greens party we got now
@Trying2SaveABuck: 100% correct in everything you said.
The old Labor stalwarts say they don't even recognize the Labor party today.
But that was also said of the Liberals after Turnball took over and took them to the left, which is why they lost so much of their faithful conservative voting base.
Todays Labor is trying to be GREEN in order to take votes away from the Greens.
But unfortunately its working the other way because traditional Labor voters are deserting them as well due to what you mentioned. Labor under Albanese has forgotten what they stand for.
I suspect Labor's primary vote will sink significantly further at the next election.
Everything they are doing is hurting and diminishing the Aussie working class.
@HeWhoKnows: The liberals are in a denialist phase where one half is taking them more conservative (right) while the other half is tearing it left, neither of which it's doing well. Hence the surge in Teal following.
Honestly i think the liberal's voting base is dying off and whats left is departing for more conservative options or the teals.
@ninnypoop: You obviously dont follow the news nor see the failures of the current Albanese arrogant blindsided Labor government.
Airbus Albo has so many broken promises that a broken mirror looks good in comparison.
Albanese has completely failed the Australian public.
Worst Prime Minister ever.
Australians have never been worse off.
Even the Labor stawarts are hiding in shame of this Labor/Greens Government.
The Liberals govern to make things better for The Australian People.
Labor governs to make things better for themselves and thier egos.
This applies in particular to Albanese who is jetsetting around the world for every photo opportunity.
I have to laugh that the Chinese addressed Albanese a "handsome boy".
He just doesnt get it. But the media and everyone else did.
Unfortunately The Libs lost the plot in thier later years chasing leftist and green policies.
So thier conservative base deserted them and rightfully so.
Teals only got thier "protest" vote but that may well change under Dutton if he can steer the Libs back to Conservatisim..
Alan Tudge was on the take from the CCP.
KRudd went to China 5 times….Hmmmm
You mean the subset of the 1% of foreign investors who happen to be Chinese?
Oh noes this sounds like a much more serious problem than boomers buying their fifth property to add to their slumlord empires
agreed, but lets make sure we tax it higher as well
Sounds like the rules in Thailand.
as long as there is some kind of rule in which developments have a 50-50 rule in which 50 percent of apartments in a building are sold to locals - but international buyers >with no direct ties to Australia shouldn't be allowed to buy land based residentia
There is, thats one of the reason Governments want them here, they help pave the way for new apartment buildings
I'm aware of this as my friend told me she missed out on a super cheap apartment a few years back in a new block because she dithered… they needed locals to buy as they reached then foreign buyer limit
Foreigners cant buy established property, but articles and people in this thread like to act like this is blatantly broken
There are many rules, the question is how heavily are they enforced
I'm sure there are some who are breaking the rules but I doubt its enmass like people like to act
Those multi million dollar property buys we hear about are often done through companies
There will be no end as long as we are addicted to the international $$$.
Who's we ? Myself and many other locals all miss out on these gains.
Who's we ?
The people selling.
They can't buy unless an Aussie sells.
Your would probably say to yourself "screw the first home buyers, I'm taking the extra $100k" if you were the seller.
They can't buy unless an Aussie sells.
This Aussie had a solution. Watch if you are one of the two people who have not seen the "No Asians" seller from Highgate :-)
'local'? WTF is that these days
Local means a resident in this context. A citizen or PR who primarily lives here.
From what i've read, Australia needs to tighten their money laundering laws. Certain industries don't have a duty of disclosure.
https://michaelwest.com.au/experts-sound-gong-on-chinese-mon…
https://michaelwest.com.au/aml-ctf-reform-property-crisis-dr…
https://michaelwest.com.au/rampant-money-laundering-foreign-…
Property should be a utility for the population rather than a vehicle for investment.
Unfortunately, there is no political gain in solving the issue. Australians expect their property to keep increasing in price and love that theoretical wealth tied up in property.
The laws to tighten up those gaps are literally due to be put before parliament early next year so not so sure about 'no political gain in solving the issue'. The Coalition, sure, they completely ignored the 2016 FATF recommendations. ALP has already done a full consultation round and is about to release the final consultation paper with draft proposed legislation.
That is good to hear that aspect is being fixed.
Amazing to see something changing after so long. But will it? Could it be prematurely deficient like AML laws were in the past (how much was worked on by PWC consultants / got sprinkled with magic dust and their own, very special, Easter Eggs?)
I am more interested to understand why it's been so dispassionately treated by successive governments in the past. Knowing the cause of that will help us get this right. Esp. as there is so much money at stake with every small change to AML (from Finstos' implementing change to Corporate business models. With those comes influence, donations, etc.). This is likely the primary cause of corruption even if without the paper bags. Not that the bag-men and women aren't out there still, of course. Just look at our beloved Leprechaun running away with millions of taxpayer, customer and investor funds!
It will be interesting to see what happens. But it is the workarounds enacted by the Corporations that won't be obvious or even made public that will define success. Developed and routinely enhanced to make the most of the existing AML disaster, laws that were also supposed to stop, not grow opportunities to launder and corrupt.
Like many things in a fast changing world, these laws need to be revised quarterly, not between political cycles, and at that, only when politically possible. But law makers do not easily 'own' the codes they write, by which the peasants must live their lives, and the Corporations lobbyists spend all their time working over and changing in their favour.
Higher prices don't really help people. Unless you are a childless or own a LOT of properties, then you will never end up ahead because you children will need to buy at those inflated houses. Prices go up a million, your two investment properties get you an extra two million, but your three kids will all want to buy a house so they will collectively need to pay an extra three million.
The best thing for the country would be for states to oversupply the market, build quality high density housing as well, and good public transport to those high density housing. The housing bubble will burst and as long as supply is deliberately kept above demand then house prices will stay low forever. Except in Sydney, nothing will ever help Sydney.
We don't even need more houses. We could easily reduce the immigration rate house prices and rents would stabilize without ever building another dwelling in Australia. Remember, without immigration we are a shrinking, infertile population. If we stopped immigration altogether, houses would crash entirely and become next to worthless - amazing utility for the population, terrible for pyramid-schemers.
Standard Murdoch media fear mongering piece.
As if Rupert gives a toss about Straya. He'd happily chow down with the honchos of the top dogs of any regime.China included
This article is taking about $15 million properties.
Not really entry level.
How do they know the buyers are Chinese and not Australian of Chinese heritage?
The biggest foreign citizen owners of residential property in Australian are: 1UK 2USA 3Singapore.
The real problem is Australia is not building enough new houses and hasn’t for decades. The bulk of the potential votes are in the big cities, so all of the investment goes to stadiums and tunnels in the cities instead of investing in infrastructure in regional developments where residential blocks are much cheaper and plentiful.
This article is taking about $15 million properties.
Not really entry level.
That depends…
and our insane addiction to using immigration to stimulate the economy. We are creating a class system of unfathomable misery
It's irrelevant where the investment is as Australian production of housing has been consistent for decades. We are simply importing too many people.
From what you say they are no more investors than you are in your house. But they are Asian, aren't they?
Better get out the pitchforks!
^ This guy has a brain.
These articles have been floating around for ages.
Australia is mostly owned by the UK and USA.
A lot of 'auctions' OP are going to would be for sub $2m properties, where he sees people of asian descent buying properties.
Chinese/asian people are good savers, they save, they work hard, they buy properties, it's in their culture.
The foreign investors in the articles are buying top notch properties, most of the time, people like OP are not even invited to attend let alone afford $10m+ properties. They are normally sold privately many times without going to auction.
It’s those buyers who make our housing prices skyrocket. Aussie house prices shouldn’t be this high as we’re not even a densely populated country and still have vast land for housing development.
Chinese buyers also snap up properties in Canada (Vancouver in particular) which leads to soaring house prices in Chinese favoured suburbs.
The consequence from these unhealthy practices is good for those who already own a property, bad for those who are still struggling to buy their first home and renters.
Yeah no. If Chinese investors made up the majority of people buying houses in this country or if they were the only ones buying then yeah, you could say that but the fact is there actually are Aussies out there buying houses still.
It was steadily declining interest rates over the past 15 years, lack of supply and — most importantly of all — our obsession with housing as a means of growing wealth which caused prices to skyrocket, not Chinese investors.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jul/08/more-…
https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/banning-foreign-property-b…
Anecdotally, the apparent demographics of auction attendees in our area is skewed away from the overall Australian population demographic if you know what I mean.
I didn’t mean that it was only the Chinese that are the only buyers of properties in the Aussie real estate market . I meant it was them who first drove the prices to skyrocket. Many Chinese became affluent in the last 20 years or so as China opened up for trade and businesses for its citizens. A lot of them don’t buy the houses here as an investment but they buy them for their kids or a base to settle in Aust. I mean c’mon, investing in real estate in cities like Hong Kong, London etc is where the real money is.
As housing prices soar, Aussies then noticed that investing in real estate as the fast way of making money as the house pricing keeps on increasing at a rate that was never experienced. These Aussie investors then become landlords and rent out those investment properties while paying off the mortgage to lighten the load while they look for a right price to sell. In turn, the demand for properties increased and the housing prices do not plummet but keeps on skyrocketing. This then turn into a snowballing effect. This effect also helps drive rental prices into an unprecedented rate. People who has a steady income then rush to get a property whether it is for investment or first property hence the lack of supply. It’s like a scalper’s mentality.
lack of supply
Why do so many people refer to "lack of supply". The supply isn't drying up, there is more supply then ever. Natural population growth is negative. There is only one politically incorrect reason for the situation, which is increased demand from migrants, whether they are Brits or Chinese is irrelevant, but these days most happen to be Asian/Indian.
the reality is regardless of where the population is coming from it is growing faster than supply and therefore there is a lack of supply. Australia would actually have to build at a faster rate than it ever has in history by a significant margin to keep up with current population growth.
@gromit: I don't disagree, but my point was framing the problem as one of supply is deceptive, no amount of increased supply will ever meet the demand, because we are deliberately ramping up the demand, partly to create the shortage for the benefit of asset holders. It's impossible to solve this problem by increasing supply.
It's the same bullshit as recycling - nobody has ever demonstrated that recycling reduces the amount of waste in the world, nor the amount we mine new raw materials. It's plausible that recycling is just subsidizing the cost of raw material allowing an increase of production, yet all the discourse around recycling frames it as reducing waste and preventing extraction of more natural resources.
50 years too late to worry. Foreign ownership sucks. ppl slept through the worst of govts selling us out. Mainly the LNP.But our arse has been owned at every level by America since WWII.
And S.Africa has been eating away at our institutions ,mining,contracting etc, quietly prolifically since Apartheid ended.
Basically moving in
S-O-V-E-R-E-I-G-N-T-Y
Ive found a lot havent reported appropriately to the FIRB. They know they have too but it doesn't stop them from attending auctions and making offers. A couple of families I have seen regularly in Adelaide in particular suburbs are known to be in this requirement (Malaysian).
I dont agree with foreign ownership personally. Housing stock ought to be prioritised for the citizens of a country before others. Yes, I understood foreigners pay higher stamp duty but thats hardly a hinderance.
The only time non citizens should be able to buy is when they enter the citizenship track.
If you actually pay attention there's heaps of thinly veiled anti-China rhetoric in the media. China hacking Australia, Chinese investors buying up Aussie homes, China's rise to power etc. are all headlines that often make the news. It's all there to drum up fear and xenophobia and the sad reality is that it actually works.
Ultimately the fact is that it takes two to tango. Aussies choose to sell their houses to the highest bidder, it just so happens that the rules allow for foreign investors (like Chinese investors for example) to buy houses and they are the ones who are willing to pay the most. Do you really think the average Aussie would sell to a FHB over a foreign investor when the foreign investor is willing to pay $100k - $500k more? They wouldn't.
I agree. Chinese ownership is not the issue. Foreign ownership is. People who look like us (profanity) up the place socially and politically and economically is not a step fwd.The whole China bad when it comes to everything is nothing short of old school 'yellow peril' reds under the bed' fear mongering. Duttons pseudo brown shirt boys have made it an art form
Those foreign investors have Australian passports, so not exactly foreign. If you identify the issue to be Chinese investors, you must question if the government is willing to make laws disadvantaging people based on their country of origin, not their citizenship status.
That would be nonprecedential however.
I guess we should outlaw all private school grads with 'family money' from buying 2-3 mil homes as their first property too since they are the ones snapping up prime strayan realestate in affluent suburbs. But that doesn't make for a good story though does it
Agree and that's human nature.
Chinese buyers are not the problem. The system that allows them to buy is the issue - and that's not their fault.
Successive governments have/are failing the Australian people.
I wonder if any of these xenophobic lurkers see white foreigners/Euro cucks that snatch up a lot of costal properties also a huge problem for most economies around the world and not just here?!
Do you sincerely think the anti-China sentiment isn't hard earned? From the ongoing cyber attacks on government to business, through to the propaganda images as backlash due to covid criticism. Not the IP theft from western production that allowed them to claw their way out of poverty the past 50 years?
Anti-Chinese sentiment is well earned, it just has little to do with the housing market. Any foreign investment should be a final price % on top to the government and extra yearly taxes to make it an unattractive place to park money long term.
If you actually pay attention there's heaps of thinly veiled anti-China rhetoric in the media.
Lol, you should see Chinese state media's opinion of the Western world, then tell us about "xenophobic" rhetoric in the media.
It's all there to drum up fear and xenophobia and the sad reality is that it actually works.
Yes, if we could just look past the Great Leap Backwards (pun intended) that killed more people in China than WW2 did globally, the invasion and genocide of Tibet, the concentration camps in Xinjiang, the genocide of the Uyghurs that continues unabated to this day, the constant warmongering against Taiwan and all of South-East Asia, the annexation and brutal repression of Hong Kong since 2019, the massive colonisation campaign of Africa via predatory debt slavery, the Belt & Road horse sh*t to try and shoehorn their way into relevance on the global stage, to say nothing of China's treatment of its own citizens since the beginning Covid to this very day where the country is still enforcing ridiculously draconian anti-Covid measures and imprisoning its own citizens who refuse to comply (or worse)…
…IF we could get past ALL of those "minor issues"…
China's an awesome country.
Take your 50 cents/social credit points and shove them, comrade.
Or the white invasion of aboriginals
Nice whataboutism comrade. Very original. You've earned another 50 social credit points.
They're not investors. They're money launderers.
Investors pay market prices and not a cent more.
People who pay $100,000s over market aren't investors.
Thanks, bought 7
says OOS. late by 6 hours and 36 minutes.
They're just after somewhere safe to bring their family and their money. They don't trust the government back home. Our government allows it, so take it up with them.
Sure, and they are more than welcome. The problem is that I've met Chinese migrants, now citizens, who are totally and utterly loyal to Xi and the CCP. That's not good and is completely the fault of successive Australian governments.
I think foreign buyers can significantly impact the market in a small area, and I think they do that in some areas in Sydney and Melbourne. But on the whole (across Australia), I think the effect of foreign buyers is minor compared to other factors (limited supply, local investors, interest rates, fomo, etc.). The low interest rate scam and the subsequent COVID rush to buy property was an absolute joke, with houses snapped up within hours in many areas. The massive, sudden rise in prices in most areas may have made a small portion of the population wealthy, but it definitely made the majority of the population poorer in real terms, with many people taking on much larger mortgages than they otherwise would have, and many people who did not own or buy property dropping even further away from financial independence.
Canada has banned Asian buyers from purchasing real estate in that country. The situation was getting out of hand in Vancouver.
https://www.mansionglobal.com/articles/demand-is-raging-in-v…
https://www.ft.com/content/8ccdd871-afc3-4479-a4f3-f5ca5837d…
I hate to bring evidence into this debate but perhaps foreign buyers are not the issue
Asian buyers ? Really?
Have u been lurking on white supremacy sites for too long and only blaming asians?
Yeah, all auctions have been marked up 100-350k for 800k-1.4m houses and all bought my China Mainland Chinese. Word has it that they are relatives/friends of corrupted rich officials. And they bid hard and high amongst themselves. Ordinary Australians don’t stand a chance!
Why don’t ordinary Australians refuse to sell to these people then. Refuse the bid and sell to a local Aussie. Greed is the answer. Aussie sellers are selling knowing full well the money they will receive is corrupt
The auction for my property is this Saturday. Does anyone know how to say give me your money in Mandarin?
Effects of Chinese Snapping up Australian Property
Honestly though, foreign buyers aren't the biggest factor.
it has a better sound bite though than to actually focus on the issues which are a lot more complex
Blame the migrants is the safest deflector a politician has for any issue
There's always two sides.
Buyers would be pissed but sellers would be loving it.
Maybe cut the frequency of your smashed avo on toasts.
😲
Mine are already only 50Hz…
That's still 49 Hz too many.
Gotta get onto that PAL 60hz.
Gotta get onto that PAL
Don't call me PAL buddy….
I'm asian backgound (not Chinese) but born and raised in Australia and consider myself Australian. An outsider might just assume I am Chinese simply by my asian appearance.
As it were, I recently bought an investment property with majority cash.
The cash wasn't from an endless supply or from family etc, but I saved a lot and made some early-life financial choices which helped me later on.
In short, I loath the notion of being categorised as 'cashed up Chinese buyer' when I busted my guts to get what I have, and to be able to provide for my family.
Chinese or not, but not, being financially responsible is what has allowed me to be where I am.
96% of Australian citizens are immigrants or the decedents of immigrants.
If you immigrated from Belgium last week and put on a pair of tracksuit pants and thongs. People at an auction would think your an Aussie, if your ancestors came to Australia from china for the gold rush 1860, you’d look like a cashed up foreigner investor at the auction.
Horse shit. Aussies with Chinese heritage are a lot more Australian than an Anglo that doesn't speak English, and it's pretty obvious from the way people talk.
I think you completely miss my point tiger,
The narrative of the clickbait conversation is that Asians shouldn’t be allowed to buy property as it takes away buying potential from non asians. Ignoring the fact that white people and their kin are immigrants or the decedents of. And that the biggest foreign owners of property in Australia are British or American.
My point is that people with a racist view of Asians are quick to blame people who look different to them despite the fact that that they may actually be Australian citizens and a lot people are very ignorant to reality of multiculturalism and globalisation.
@Stewardo: I didn't miss your point at all, my point was that a Chinese immigrant from the 1800s and a Chinese immigrant 2 years ago are different things, and are not easily confused.
If you want to bring up the "we're all immigrants" line, you may as well point out that we're all genetically related, so you married your cousin nth removed. Obviously we distinguish between degrees of familial relationship, and we can similarly distinguish how integrated somebody is. Somebody who was born in Australia, or who has been here 50 years and integrated, is obviously not what most people mean when they say "immigrant".
Yeah people are labelled or seen as Chinese by people who can't even name half of east, south east, and central Asia. (China, Japan, South Korea, North Korea, Taiwan, Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar, Nepal, Bhutan, Mongolia, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan، Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan)
I wouldn't believe that 1%. Plenty of "local" advocates buying for them and holding the properties for them too. Also that "1%" is buying up a multitude of properties. Even Dan's land tax isn't enough to put them off buying more.